Katara Vs tonraq

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chloros

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@aystarr: Localized freezing for this fight does not really matter, especially not enough to give Tonraq an edge. Katara has also bent steam, perfume, clouds and water that she couldn't see. I don't think that matters either, but if your looking for more of a variety of skill, Katara's got it. Some other feats I remember was Katara, along with Aang, stopped a large ship from going down a rapid waterfall (until another ship crashed into them). Her impressive ice breath; stopping a Fire Nation tank, and also lifting and encasing another tank in ice. And then her ice breath against Jet.

This was all before her final training with Pakku.

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Tektonic

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For Christ's sake my friend. Katara by EoS has done everything Tonraq has and more: this is the end of the story.

But he's battling a far weaker B1 Katara, so comparing him in skill to others above is fine, never said he was at their level.

Bringing up Ming Hua does not make Tonraq freezing the tip of his water arms any more impressive.

It's great standalone precision, and a good comparison for other powerful waterbenders doing something similar.

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Aystarr

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#53  Edited By Aystarr

@tektonic: @tektonic:

- No, look at the other frame that @chloros: posted, it shows it's bigger than the pillar which is equal height with the wall of the stairway. I'm not saying yours is wrong tho, if anything, it's the frame inconsistency of ATLA's animation. So my point still stands, and even if I didn't use that, you still haven't shown its bigger than the one she used against zuko In the oasis.

- she didn't "struggle" against Zuko, he only bypassed her because he was fast enough, she was doing just fine stopping his fireball. And when she finished reacting to the fireball she was quick enough to blast Zuko before he touched aang.

- if anything, Zuko's charged fireball just shows how much power was needed to break ice ball, if Zuko needed to charge, then tonraq is deffo not overcoming it with one shot.

- your words- "she can only redirect or dissipate what she is FAST ENOUGH... ", because she wasn't fast enough to stop it, doesn't mean she can't, you keep forgetting this is a discussion over POWER and SKILL, every other factor is irrelevant, you having to mention her speed in every point you make shows that you don't have enough power and skill feat for tonraq head on against her.lol,boi just accept it.

- "I've already showcased tonraq skill..." umm, excuse me, exactly what skill did you showcase, you kept yamming about "localized freezing" which like I said before, it's nothing compared to b1 katara's skillset, plus tonraq is not even Ming, you using statements for Ming to justify it because he showed something similar is wrong on so many levels and with the other comments I'm seeing, I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. Note, the fact that you had to rely on LoCaLiZeD fReEzInG as a skill for tonraq over 3 points of your argument just shows how he lacks in skill. Katara has steamfreezing, master redirection,flash freezing, ice spheres, iceball, dissipation and that's just to name a few. Bro, he's outclassed, deal with it,lol.

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Aystarr

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Tektonic

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@aystarr said:

@tektonic: @tektonic:

- No, look at the other frame that @chloros: posted, it shows it's bigger than the pillar which is equal height with the wall of the stairway. I'm not saying yours is wrong tho, if anything, it's the frame inconsistency of ATLA's animation. So my point still stands, and even if I didn't use that, you still haven't shown its bigger than the one she used against zuko In the oasis.

- she didn't "struggle" against Zuko, he only bypassed her because he was fast enough, she was doing just fine stopping his fireball. And when she finished reacting to the fireball she was quick enough to blast Zuko before he touched aang.

- if anything, Zuko's charged fireball just shows how much power was needed to break ice ball, if Zuko needed to charge, then tonraq is deffo not overcoming it with one shot.

- your words- "she can only redirect or dissipate what she is FAST ENOUGH... ", because she wasn't fast enough to stop it, doesn't mean she can't, you keep forgetting this is a discussion over POWER and SKILL, every other factor is irrelevant, you having to mention her speed in every point you make shows that you don't have enough power and skill feat for tonraq head on against her.lol,boi just accept it.

- "I've already showcased tonraq skill..." umm, excuse me, exactly what skill did you showcase, you kept yamming about "localized freezing" which like I said before, it's nothing compared to b1 katara's skillset, plus tonraq is not even Ming, you using statements for Ming to justify it because he showed something similar is wrong on so many levels and with the other comments I'm seeing, I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. Note, the fact that you had to rely on LoCaLiZeD fReEzInG as a skill for tonraq over 3 points of your argument just shows how he lacks in skill. Katara has steamfreezing, master redirection,flash freezing, ice spheres, iceball, dissipation and that's just to name a few. Bro, he's outclassed, deal with it

You know I was actually just going to rest the conversation at hand, but because you're so rude, I'll respond soon, bigtime.

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Aystarr

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#56  Edited By Aystarr

@tektonic: One more thing, Ming has done that localized freezing technique a thousand times, kya did it against zaheer, unalaq did it when he fired that water-ice blast at tonraq, tarrloq did it,even that prison escapee girl in lok season 4 did Something similar. So, really, it's not all that.

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Tektonic

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#57  Edited By Tektonic
@aystarr said:

@tektonic: @tektonic:

- No, look at the other frame that @chloros: posted, it shows it's bigger than the pillar which is equal height with the wall of the stairway. I'm not saying yours is wrong tho, if anything, it's the frame inconsistency of ATLA's animation. So my point still stands,

There's no other frame, you're just making up nonsense.

At this angle it's in front of our view blocking our vision. So it's enlarged compared to the background, using your logic it's larger than the glaciers enclosing the NWT, and that student must be a giant
At this angle it's in front of our view blocking our vision. So it's enlarged compared to the background, using your logic it's larger than the glaciers enclosing the NWT, and that student must be a giant
Enough of your lies
Enough of your lies

and even if I didn't use that,

You can't you can literally see from the best angle possible how small it is.

you still haven't shown its bigger than the one she used against zuko In the oasis.

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Tonraq easily tramples this

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Tonraq and two others raise a wave so wide, it's practically ten times longer than him, and so large that it fills up that portions of the forest so high that even a human looks like an ant being washed away. Even assuming that Tonraq is only lifting a third of the wave(impossible since he's the strongest) it effortlessly dwarfs what Katara did to Zuko, which is barely wider than him and only fills up an incredibly tiny portion of the oasis.

- she didn't "struggle" against Zuko, he only bypassed her because he was fast enough, she was doing just fine stopping his fireball. And when she finished reacting to the fireball she was quick enough to blast Zuko before he touched aang.

So yeah she loses, you just admitted she couldn't react to the fireball properly, allowing Zuko to be one step ahead, which means he could have killed her when her attention was diverted.

She literally still thinks he is there in front of her
She literally still thinks he is there in front of her

- if anything, Zuko's charged fireball just shows how much power was needed to break ice ball, if Zuko needed to charge, then tonraq is deffo not overcoming it with one shot.

Tonraq doesn't have to charge anything. he's a waterbender, he will just bend it away with superior power

- your words- "she can only redirect or dissipate what she is FAST ENOUGH... ", because she wasn't fast enough to stop it, doesn't mean she can't, you keep forgetting this is a discussion over POWER and SKILL, every other factor is irrelevant, you having to mention her speed in every point you make shows that you don't have enough power and skill feat for tonraq head on against her.lol,boi just accept it.

More lies

"and larger attack, she can only redirect or dissipate what she is fast enough and strong enough to react to or stop it."

"like when Pakku washed her away with a large wave right after both those moves."

So you just confirmed she abysmally fails in the speed department, and also the power department. And we know she can't handle an icy barrage to save her life.

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- "I've already showcased tonraq skill..." umm, excuse me, exactly what skill did you showcase, you kept yamming about "localized freezing" which like I said before, it's nothing compared to b1 katara's skillset,

-Monumentally better environmental control that one shots Katara

-Monumentally better flash freezes against stronger opponents

-Water arms

-Raise forest flooding Tidal Waves

-Larger Ice Constructs(Bridges, Slides, Barriers, Prisons, Orbs, Spears etc)

plus tonraq is not even Ming, you using statements for Ming to justify it because he showed something similar is wrong on so many levels and with the other comments I'm seeing, I know I'm not the only one who thinks that.

You just waited for someone, in this case Anthp, to say something and hopped on it since you lacked what was needed to come up with anything on your own, yet it still stands Katara can't do that, and none of the people you're referring to even denied how Katara can actually win with no combat skills.

Note, the fact that you had to rely on LoCaLiZeD fReEzInG as a skill for tonraq over 3 points of your argument just shows how he lacks in skill.

The fact that you are pretending I didn't post a whole bunch of other stuff, and begged other people to back you up, shows your lack of faith in the character you are representing(or misrepresenting in this case"

Yayy!!, Thanks, lol.

Cringe, and those images are non combat.

One more thing, Ming has done that localized freezing technique a thousand times, unalaq did it when he fired that water-ice blast at tonraq,

Which I've already stated.

kya did it against zaheer, tarrloq did it,even that prison escapee girl in lok season 4 did Something similar. So, really, it's not all that.

You proved you don't know what the technique is, Kya didn't do that at all when she grabbed Zaheer, Neither did Tarrlok when he grabbed Asami, and absolutely not the prison escape when she froze the ground.

Katara has steamfreezing,

Literally useless, couldn't even help her when Pakku was surrounded in mist.

master redirection,

Failed against Pakku.

flash freezing,

Weaker than Tonraq's.

ice spheres,

Weaker than his ice prison.

iceball,

Weaker than Tonraq's.

dissipation and that's just to name a few.

Failed against Pakku, and don't say name a few than ask someone else to get it for you.

Bro, he's outclassed, deal with it,lol.

Katara is outclassed, she lost all her fights, when Tonraq could overpower Zaheer, overpower Desna and Eska, and still put up a fight against Unalaq weakened.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@tektonic: I’m not getting involved in any part of this except, for one the “power” feat you’re using is completely incalculable. Since there were 2 other people there, and every bender has different strength it’s completely impossible to calculate how much was Tonraq and how much was the other 2 benders. They aren’t fodder they are some of the best men in the tribe thus you can’t even directly scale Tonraq above them.

Tonraq doesn’t have any power feat significantly better than Katara at all

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Tektonic

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@tektonic: I’m not getting involved in any part of this except, for one the “power” feat you’re using is completely incalculable. Since there were 2 other people there, and every bender has different strength it’s completely impossible to calculate how much was Tonraq and how much was the other 2 benders. They aren’t fodder they are some of the best men in the tribe thus you can’t even directly scale Tonraq above them.

Tonraq doesn’t have any power feat significantly better than Katara at all

Well, when Tonraq narrates the flashback, he refers to himself as the General of the Army, so he is the most powerful person there, and the one specifically called to expel the barbarians. Even 1/3 of that feat is a larger volume than Katara's let alone him likely pulling most of the weight.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@tektonic: no, again. General by no means implies the most powerful. The generals are the wisest, the smartest, and the most tactical. Him narrating means nothing to help solidify his as better than the other 2 as well.

This feat is incalculable and cannot be used in a fair debate

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Tektonic

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@tektonic: no, again. General by no means implies the most powerful. The generals are the wisest, the smartest, and the most tactical. Him narrating means nothing to help solidify his as better than the other 2 as well.

This feat is incalculable and cannot be used in a fair debate

In this verse most leaders are generally the most powerful member of their forces, in addition to the fact he is crown prince at the time.

The likeliness that the fodder contributed more individually than Tonraq is extremely low, even a mere fraction of this feat washes Katara's own away.

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Donnieboy16

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It would be farier to do Katara in book 3 minus the blood bending since tonraq is physically stronger and his bending would proabbly be more advanced given the time skip.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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#63  Edited By EmmaFrostXmen

@tektonic: you can’t use “most” as a reason. The fire lord in the show we are discussing (LOK) is most certainly not the most powerful, neither is the Earth Queen. In avatar the last Airbender the chief of the north was not the most powerful water bender, and rather it was a teacher (Pakku). No evidence points to him being the chief having anything to do with power. Like I said incalculable

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Tektonic

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#64  Edited By Tektonic

@emmafrostxmen said:

@tektonic: you can’t use “most” as a reason.

I can though since most of the high ranking leaders are powerful, high ranking status usually coincides with power.

The fire lord in the show we are discussing (LOK) is most certainly not the most powerful,

We have no idea how powerful Izumi is. We know how powerful Sozin, Azulon, Ozai, Iroh, Zuko, and Azula were though.

General Zhao was the most powerful firebender in his navy.

General Iroh II was the most powerful bender from the united forces.

neither is the Earth Queen.

But this is a plot point, the EK royal family being nonbenders made it easier for the Long Feng and Azula to usurp their control as Lilling explained.

All the EK generals like General Fong and General How were very powerful.

Great Uniter Kuvira was the strongest in the EE.

Chief Lin Beifong is the most powerful officer in Republic City

Founder and Leader Suyin is the most powerful metalbender in Zaofu.

King Bumi was the most powerful earthbender in Omashu.

Elder Gyatso was on the Council of Five, and considered the most powerful airbender in the world.

Grandmaster Tenzin is the most powerful airbender in the air nation as their leader.

In avatar the last Airbender the chief of the north was not the most powerful water bender, and rather it was a teacher (Pakku).

Pakku isn't just an instructor he was the one who lead the waterbenders during the invasion, and by Unalaq's time the Royal bloodline included all of the most powerful Waterbenders in the water tribe(Unalaq, Korra, Tonraq, Desna & Eska) period.

No evidence points to him being the chief having anything to do with power. Like I said incalculable

It does though, he was literally called in to beat up the Barbarians on screen and chase them out, nothing more.

The idea that two nameless fodder are stronger than Tonraq who was their leader, and fought other powerful waterbenders is a reach as they have no feats or portrayal otherwise.

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Aystarr

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@tektonic: ROFL, first, how was I being rude??!!!!, I literally put "LOL" in one of the sentences , how is that rude??!, I was trying to keep it light-hearted, from my last like 3 posts, I think it should be clear that I'm not taking any of these to heart."yamming" is a slang-term,its nothing, the localized freezing stuff was also quoting you but in a more friendly way. They're everyday stuffs but okay tho, I guess if you felt like being informal was rude, I'm sorry.

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Aystarr

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#66  Edited By Aystarr

@tektonic: - In my "nonsense" frame, the ice is scaling higher than the wall of the site which isn't "blocking our vision" like the pillar but if you're going to turn a blind eye, OK I guess . So I'm just supposed to ignore the whole other frame and accept the one you posted as the "best possible angle"? , like I said before , frame inconsistency, not anyone's fault.

- @emmafrostxmen: has already said what has to be on that forest flooding , the feat is inapplicable because we don't know the capabilities of the others he did it with. So with that being said, the Zuko oasis feat still stands on top in the power department.

- I don't know why you keep forgetting this but I'm going to make it clear one last time.

THIS WAS. NEVER. ABOUT. SPEED

THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT PHYSICAL ABILITY.

THERE. IS. NO. SPEED. IN. THIS. ARGUMENT.

So Zuko being able to get past her and not " deciding to kill her" really doesn't help any of them in this argument.

- So in other words, you're saying that Zuko's charged fireblast are weaker than an ice throw from tonraq?. To anyone possibly reading this, pls I need assurance that I'm not the only one seeing this. 2020 really is the weirdest year huh?, I'm just gonna leave that there for you to go over that conclusion you just made indirectly.

- You keep forgetting pakku did that to an untrained katara, the fast enough part, I can probably see, but the strong enough?, no, tonraq isn't pakku, heck , pakku has his own UNAIDED feat of toppling water over the walls of ba sing se. The fact that pakku a more powerful bender than tonraq was able to do that to an UNTRAINED katara doesn't mean tonraq would be able to do so against a trained katara. And that's even if he has the superior power

- katara has replicated most of the skills you mentioned for tonraq before even reaching Book 2, except maybe the water arms, but she has a lot of others in her arsenal to make up for it and more. And that's even the construct Creation aspect, he still lacks in versatility and attack chains which are required especially for a waterbender.

- wait a minute, me not using that as a point initially when you mentioned localized freezing does not mean I wasn't thinking about it. And what I said was different from what @anthp2000: said, my main point was how localized freezing isn't all that as it has been replicated by many waterbenders, I just stated how Ming's was on a higher level.and even if I used what @anthp2000: said, how does that make me unoriginal, this isn't a game of who can make up things best, it's facts, me using @anthp2000 point (which I didn't) doesn't make it any less true. You're just deviating from the focus at this point and TBH, not to be rude but what you said about being "unoriginal" was kind of a childish thing to do and not relevant . I didn't refer to Anyone

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Aystarr

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@tektonic: First, not to be rude but my personal conversation with @chloros: isn't your business so calling it "cringe" was rude and unnecessary. But if you need clarification so bad, I didn't call anyone to back me up with my points, I'm currently using a low end electronic device that I don't see me changing anytime soon and I told him to back me up with some gifs of book one Zuko cuz I couldn't post any.he provided but not much really had enough correlation to the point I was trying to make, then he posted some b1 katara ones also, hence me saying thanks. So it's really none of your business tho.

- I know just fine the technique you're saying, I never said tarrloq did it TO ASAMI, hold up, I'm gonna check it again for kya and tarrloq

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Tektonic

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@aystarr said:

@tektonic: ROFL, first, how was I being rude??!!!!, I literally put "LOL" in one of the sentences , how is that rude??!, I was trying to keep it light-hearted, from my last like 3 posts, I think it should be clear that I'm not taking any of these to heart."yamming" is a slang-term,its nothing, the localized freezing stuff was also quoting you but in a more friendly way. They're everyday stuffs but okay tho, I guess if you felt like being informal was rude, I'm sorry.

Uh no, you were trying to be mock me by quoting me after with the letters in a big to make me sound unreasonable, and referring to my comments in a slangterm than degenerates it from normal talk. And yes adding "lol boi" is an attempt to condescend.

@aystarr said:

@tektonic: - In my "nonsense" frame, the ice is scaling higher than the wall of the site which isn't "blocking our vision" like the pillar but if you're going to turn a blind eye, OK I guess . So I'm just supposed to ignore the whole other frame and accept the one you posted as the "best possible angle"? , like I said before , frame inconsistency, not anyone's fault.

It is the best angle not maybe, it's like me standing at the same angle claiming I'm taller than Michael Jordan, instead of using a shot of us side by side, there is no inconsistently it's factually inaccurate to use your shot.

- @emmafrostxmen: has already said what has to be on that forest flooding , the feat is inapplicable because we don't know the capabilities of the others he did it with. So with that being said, the Zuko oasis feat still stands on top in the power department.

What they said changes nothing, Tonraq is established as more powerful, is logically more powerful, and is featwise more powerful, and even in the most ridiculous scenario attributing 1/3 to him over background stock characters, it still outstrips Katara in volume, end of story.

- I don't know why you keep forgetting this but I'm going to make it clear one last time.

THIS WAS. NEVER. ABOUT. SPEED

THIS. IS. NOT. ABOUT PHYSICAL ABILITY.

THERE. IS. NO. SPEED. IN. THIS. ARGUMENT.

So Zuko being able to get past her and not " deciding to kill her" really doesn't help any of them in this argument.

You are just dancing around the fact the thread should have ended pages ago. So simple question, will you admit this point ends Katara's chances of beating Tonraq?

- So in other words, you're saying that Zuko's charged fireblast are weaker than an ice throw from tonraq?. To anyone possibly reading this, pls I need assurance that I'm not the only one seeing this. 2020 really is the weirdest year huh?, I'm just gonna leave that there for you to go over that conclusion you just made indirectly.

No, his standard fireballs are nothing to be impressed by, compared to ice weapons being spammed.

- You keep forgetting pakku did that to an untrained katara, the fast enough part, I can probably see, but the strong enough?, no, tonraq isn't pakku, heck , pakku has his own UNAIDED feat of toppling water over the walls of ba sing se. The fact that pakku a more powerful bender than tonraq was able to do that to an UNTRAINED katara doesn't mean tonraq would be able to do so against a trained katara. And that's even if he has the superior power

Those two feats have nothing to do with each other, Pakku washed her away with a slightly larger water wave, what he used on a random interior wall only a few times taller than him seasons later is irrelevant.

- katara has replicated most of the skills you mentioned for tonraq before even reaching Book 2, except maybe the water arms, but she has a lot of others in her arsenal to make up for it and more. And that's even the construct Creation aspect, he still lacks in versatility and attack chains which are required especially for a waterbender.

Nothing she does stops her from easily being overpowered, blitzed, or outmaneuvered by his control of the environment. I've already showcased his techniques and how easily he wins.

- wait a minute, me not using that as a point initially when you mentioned localized freezing does not mean I wasn't thinking about it. And what I said was different from what @anthp2000: said, my main point was how localized freezing isn't all that as it has been replicated by many waterbenders, I just stated how Ming's was on a higher level.and even if I used what @anthp2000: said, how does that make me unoriginal, this isn't a game of who can make up things best, it's facts, me using @anthp2000 point (which I didn't) doesn't make it any less true. You're just deviating from the focus at this point and TBH, not to be rude but what you said about being "unoriginal" was kind of a childish thing to do and not relevant . I didn't refer to Anyone

No one here is a mind reader, what you said was just a copy and paste, so yes unoriginal, and in itself deviating from the fact Katara in B1 didn't do that, and no I won't apologize to someone blatantly rude prior.

@aystarr said:

@tektonic: First, not to be rude but my personal conversation with Chloros isn't your business so calling it "cringe" was rude and unnecessary. But if you need clarification so bad, I didn't call anyone to back me up with my points, I'm currently using a low end electronic device that I don't see me changing anytime soon and I told him to back me up with some gifs of book one Zuko cuz I couldn't post any.he provided but not much really had enough correlation to the point I was trying to make, then he posted some b1 katara ones also, hence me saying thanks. So it's really none of your business tho.

More lies and backpeddling. Page 1 you asked him for Zuko's feats, he gives them to you, and you have the audacity to say that you hoped he would back you up. And it wasn't a mater of correlation, Zuko just doesn't have the feats in B1 period to service your attempt to highball basic fireballs.

- I know just fine the technique you're saying, I never said tarrloq did it TO ASAMI, hold up, I'm gonna check it again for kya and tarrloq

The only person it's possibly applicable to is Asami, because he never did that to Korra, and you can check it all you want, what you said was completely false.

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chloros

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@aystarr: For that Zuko post, I was trying to show how he has great physicals. He's shown greater durability, strength, stealth and speed to Tonraq. Like here where he takes out several guards without them knowing where he is. So him running by Katara for a second, after she remains untouched by his fury of close range attacks, isn't a low showing. She also catches him the moment after and then proceeds to take him out with the flash freeze. So even though Tonraq has better physicals to Katara, it’s not something she can’t contend with.

@tektonic said:

No Caption Provided

Tonraq easily tramples this

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Tonraq and two others raise a wave so wide, it's practically ten times longer than him, and so large that it fills up that portions of the forest so high that even a human looks like an ant being washed away. Even assuming that Tonraq is only lifting a third of the wave(impossible since he's the strongest) it effortlessly dwarfs what Katara did to Zuko, which is barely wider than him and only fills up an incredibly tiny portion of the oasis.

The wave starts out high (about the height of Katara's Oasis one) and crashes low. The man standing directly in front of the bent tree, where you put the blue line, it's about two of him in height. The water does not cover the top of tree when it hits. Tonraq is way in the back, and the wave is the in front so it looks bigger. From a closer view it's about the same size as this solider - height wise. Also, the width of Katara's feat covers more than just the immediate area around Zuko's body. It's quite large at the base, it looks larger than the snow path in front of Tonraq. But weather you think it's bigger or not, Tonraq's aided wave just washed away several fodder soldiers, where as Katara's Oasis feat incapacitated Zuko, a notable fighter. With Katara vs Pakku, aside from the evaporation of his waves, she also tanked several of them. So I wouldn't put this feat above Katara's overall.

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#70  Edited By Aystarr

@tektonic:

Lemme just get this out of the way

- Sis, you need to chill out, like fr, get a cup of cold water and drink it . Tbh, if I was being rude, you can't do anything to me, I can't get punished so you expressing how you felt and me explaining that I meant it in a friendly way just for you to tell me I'm lying as if im going to be sanctioned if I wasn't,without having any idea the tone or manner I meant it is not it bro. and still, I even apologized and you ignored that.

- I asked for b1 Zuko feats without specification to support his power, @chloros: gave one's for physicals , I appreciated and I said I was hoping they would back me up, meaning with Zuko power feats with the mindset that they read my post, they posted another one but for katara, still not what I needed but it was helpful overall showcasing some of her moments, that's why I said "yay!! thanks". Bro!, why you acting like that, making false assumptions without solid understanding, stop it! it's not cute and it's already making the argument toxic which I didn't want. If you don't like being informal, I won't be to you again. Even if i told him to back me up, its not supposed to be this big of a deal, the main thing is that the point was made with clarification even if it takes more than a user, you could call anyone to support you and I wouldn't give an eff about it as long as its related to helping your view. Seriously stop it.

- and last, I don't need you to apologize to me for being rude, you clearly showed you meant to be rude and still I didn't make a fuss about it, and then you say Stuff Like this?, sis please, This ain't it, it just a friendly argument, don't work yourself up.

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@chloros said:

@aystarr: For that Zuko post, I was trying to show how he has great physicals. He's shown greater durability, strength, stealth and speed to Tonraq. Like here where he takes out several guards without them knowing where he is. So him running by Katara for a second, after she remains untouched by his fury of close range attacks, isn't a low showing. She also catches him the moment after and then proceeds to take him out with the flash freeze. So even though Tonraq has better physicals to Katara, it’s not something she can’t contend with.

Tonraq can kept up with people much faster than B1 Zuko(Unalaq, Zaheer), even helped and outperformed Zuko in their two RL incidents, and the attack rate he unleashed on Zaheer would devastate Katara who struggled with Zuko's fireball offense, a simple underhanded fire kick, completely surprised her.

The wave starts out high (about the height of Katara's Oasis one) and crashes low.

It's much larger and far wider. Tonraq and his men lifted the wave from the bottom of a hill

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And we already know how high it was lifted from Tonraq's height, enough to curve over the trees and still be taller

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The man standing directly in front of the bent tree, where you put the blue line, it's about two of him in height. The water does not cover the top of tree when it hits. Tonraq is way in the back, and the wave is the in front so it looks bigger. From a closer view it's about the same size as this solider - height wise.

No, the man standing in front of the tree, is the closest to the camera so he looks bigger, while Tonraq's position gives us it's length.

We have a shot where every single soldier present is dwarfed by the wave when it's right there crashing around them or against the trees
We have a shot where every single soldier present is dwarfed by the wave when it's right there crashing around them or against the trees
And the wave could flood these trees up to the neck
And the wave could flood these trees up to the neck

Also, the width of Katara's feat covers more than just the immediate area around Zuko's body. It's quite large at the base, it looks larger than the snow path in front of Tonraq.

Katara's feat is incredibly thin relative to zuko, it's wider at the base but nothing compared to flooding the visible portion of the forest we see.

No Caption Provided

But weather you think it's bigger or not,

It's much bigger, substantially actually.

Tonraq's aided wave just washed away several fodder soldiers, where as Katara's Oasis feat incapacitated Zuko, a notable fighter.

Tonraq's wave with the sheer mass, would wash away Zuko, who was even temporarily put down from Aang gushing well water at him. Tonraq himself can freeze dark spirits solid.

With Katara vs Pakku, aside from the evaporation of his waves, she also tanked several of them. So I wouldn't put this feat above Katara's overall.

She was struck down repeatedly by many attacks, Tonraq could unleash much lethally, that she can;t block, dissipate, or evaporate like how she failed with Pakku. Unlike him Tonraq isn't looking to repeatedly give her chances to measure her abilities, one hit is the end.

@aystarr said:

@tektonic:

Lemme just get this out of the way

- Sis, you need to chill out, like fr, get a cup of cold water and drink it . Tbh, if I was being rude, you can't do anything to me, I can't get punished so you expressing how you felt and me explaining that I meant it in a friendly way just for you to tell me I'm lying as if im going to be sanctioned if I wasn't,without having any idea the tone or manner I meant it is not it bro. and still, I even apologized and you ignored that.

Gurl please, save that advice for yourself when your spamming CAPSlock and exclamation marks "ONCE AGAIN!!!," anywho...

- I asked for b1 Zuko feats without specification to support his power, @chloros: gave one's for physicals , I appreciated and I said I was hoping they would back me up, meaning with Zuko power feats with the mindset that they read my post, they posted another one but for katara, still not what I needed but it was helpful overall showcasing some of her moments, that's why I said "yay!! thanks". Bro!, why you acting like that, making false assumptions without solid understanding, stop it! it's not cute and it's already making the argument toxic which I didn't want. If you don't like being informal, I won't be to you again. Even if i told him to back me up, its not supposed to be this big of a deal, the main thing is that the point was made with clarification even if it takes more than a user, you could call anyone to support you and I wouldn't give an eff about it as long as its related to helping your view. Seriously stop it.

I didn't make any false assumptions, regardless of Chloros' intentions, you asked for feats and he posted a few that included firebending(fire shield, agni kai, ice prison melting) so the logical conclusion was that your wish was fulfilled as you got what was asked, whether it benefited you ultimately is irrelevant.

- and last, I don't need you to apologize to me for being rude, you clearly showed you meant to be rude and still I didn't make a fuss about it, and then you say Stuff Like this?, sis please, This ain't it, it just a friendly argument, don't work yourself up.

Gurl bye, you're the one who got aggressive for multiple posts, spread misinformation, and have the audacity to try and get the moral high ground but expect me to accept your "apology" or give one.

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@tektonic: Zuko was 87 in the Legend of Korra, that's not a good comparison. Also Zuko had tanked multiple, even one explosive colliding hit with Aang in that fight. The water blast was the final blow, it sent him flying high in the air and he landed hard. Tonraq's wave would not do the same. Tonraq never kept up with Unalaq, he didn't land a single hit. Unalaq pretty much stood in one position the entire fight. The tree I was talking about was the one you highlighted in the initial post. As for the width I was looking at it as a third since he has help, which is why the snow path in front of him is similar in size to the Oasis. The screencap of the solider I posted was what the wave looks like in perspective. Katara did block and evaporate attacks from Pakku as well as tank some. As I showed earlier, Pakku was taken by surprise from this. Tonraq is not unleashing anything she hasn't already or can't handle.

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@chloros said:

@tektonic: Zuko was 87 in the Legend of Korra, that's not a good comparison.

Would Zuko have enlisted him twice to help stop the Red Lotus if he was weaker than B1 Katara? It doesn't make any sense, the RL would utterly demolish her at this point.

Also Zuko had tanked multiple, even one explosive colliding hit with Aang in that fight. The water blast was the final blow, it sent him flying high in the air and he landed hard.

It wasn't the final blow, he got up with June and cornered Aang, the sheer mass and power difference would make up for any damage Zuko took previously.

Tonraq's wave would not do the same.

It would do worse, considering he's a far better waterbender than S1 Aang.

Tonraq never kept up with Unalaq, he didn't land a single hit.

Katara didn't land a single hit on Pakku. He avoided more attacks in a few seconds than Katara did in any battle in S1, especially when Pakku slapped her around viciously.

Unalaq pretty much stood in one position the entire fight.

In part because Tonraq was significantly disadvantaged, the fact he was still able to put up a fight in his condition, means he would have lasted much longer without it, which puts him many leagues above S1 Katara.

The tree I was talking about was the one you highlighted in the initial post.

That doesn't matter, we see for sure that the wave significantly dwarfs multiple humans, the tree all the way at the front of the camera changes nothing.

As for the width I was looking at it as a third since he has help, which is why the snow path in front of him is similar in size to the Oasis.

A third is absolute lowball since there is no way they are nearly in Tonraq's league, but the distance from the bottom of the hill to the top all the way to the furthest soldier in the forest is wayyyy longer than and wider than Katara's feat even as 1/3 let alone more.

The screencap of the solider I posted was what the wave looks like in perspective.

Yeah when the soldier is closest in perspective and the wave was rolling up and down, at it's apex it filled that portion of the forest to the neck and very clearly dwarfed multiple barbarians.

Katara did block and evaporate attacks from Pakku as well as tank some.

Yes his weaker attacks, she was still taken down multiple times by multiple variants of attack.

As I showed earlier, Pakku was taken by surprise from this.

The discs do nothing to a standard shield.

Tonraq is not unleashing anything she hasn't already or can't handle.

She can't handle many of Pakku's moves, she has no feats of handling even nastier ones from Tonraq, who will bash her head in relentlessly with ice attacks she proved extremely vulnerable too, or slice her head off. She completely proved herself incapable of handling complex attacks.

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@tektonic said:
@chloros said:

@tektonic: Zuko was 87 in the Legend of Korra, that's not a good comparison.

Would Zuko have enlisted him twice to help stop the Red Lotus if he was weaker than B1 Katara? It doesn't make any sense, the RL would utterly demolish her at this point.

That's an odd way of looking at your point you tried to make.

Also Zuko had tanked multiple, even one explosive colliding hit with Aang in that fight. The water blast was the final blow, it sent him flying high in the air and he landed hard.

It wasn't the final blow, he got up with June and cornered Aang, the sheer mass and power difference would make up for any damage Zuko took previously.

It wasn't more powerful, and taking out fodder is not the same.

Tonraq's wave would not do the same.

It would do worse, considering he's a far better waterbender than S1 Aang.

Not against Katara.

Tonraq never kept up with Unalaq, he didn't land a single hit.

Katara didn't land a single hit on Pakku. He avoided more attacks in a few seconds than Katara did in any battle in S1, especially when Pakku slapped her around viciously.

She came a lot closer.

Unalaq pretty much stood in one position the entire fight.

In part because Tonraq was significantly disadvantaged, the fact he was still able to put up a fight in his condition, means he would have lasted much longer without it, which puts him many leagues above S1 Katara.

It's because of his fighting style. He has no showings saying he would have lasted longer.

The tree I was talking about was the one you highlighted in the initial post.

That doesn't matter, we see for sure that the wave significantly dwarfs multiple humans, the tree all the way at the front of the camera changes nothing.

I've already explained this.

As for the width I was looking at it as a third since he has help, which is why the snow path in front of him is similar in size to the Oasis.

A third is absolute lowball since there is no way they are nearly in Tonraq's league, but the distance from the bottom of the hill to the top all the way to the furthest soldier in the forest is wayyyy longer than and wider than Katara's feat even as 1/3 let alone more.

I disagree.

The screencap of the solider I posted was what the wave looks like in perspective.

Yeah when the soldier is closest in perspective and the wave was rolling up and down, at it's apex it filled that portion of the forest to the neck and very clearly dwarfed multiple barbarians.

I don't see how this changes what I said.

Katara did block and evaporate attacks from Pakku as well as tank some.

Yes his weaker attacks, she was still taken down multiple times by multiple variants of attack.

They were not weaker.

As I showed earlier, Pakku was taken by surprise from this.

The discs do nothing to a standard shield.

They would slice his neck off.

Tonraq is not unleashing anything she hasn't already or can't handle.

She can't handle many of Pakku's moves, she has no feats of handling even nastier ones from Tonraq, who will bash her head in relentlessly with ice attacks she proved extremely vulnerable too, or slice her head off. She completely proved herself incapable of handling complex attacks.

I strongly disagree as shown and explained previously.

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@chloros

That's an odd way of looking at your point you tried to make.

Whether it's speed or just general combat portrayal, it's almost impossible to seriously think that Tonraq would be brought by Zuko to these missions if he was weaker than B1 Katara...

It wasn't more powerful, and taking out fodder is not the same.

It definitely was because of sheer size, and would mop Zuko away, just like he was by smaller water attacks.

Not against Katara.

Except for how Pakku brought her to her knees with a decent sized wave of water.

She came a lot closer.

No she didn't, a weakened Tonraq literally grabbed a hold of Unalaq.

It's because of his fighting style. He has no showings saying he would have lasted longer.

Except the writers literally state in the artbook that he was weakened in order for the battle to be quick(scan on first page), but you shouldn't need a statement it's a given because he had been fighting for hours, and was seriously injured by Desna and Eska's surprise attack so of course he would have to last longer without those issues regardless of their actually being a statement from the writers...

I've already explained this.

I don't see how this changes what I said.

It just demonstrates the wave at it's apex, which even at it highest point was above the highest seen branches, and it's thickness with how it dwarfed the humans. Together with the much larger length shows how much more volume of water there was compared to Katara's.

I disagree.

Ok.

All you need to do is look at Zuko and count how many of him in length it takes to reach Katara, it's not a lot. Compared to the amount of Tonraq's to scale up the hill, significantly up past the hill in the air, than across to the farthest part of the forest we see. It's not comparable.

They were not weaker.

They were when Pakku stopped redirecting the water and just churned it for a bit than released it as a large wave of water, all Katara could do was brace herself and get washed away.

They would slice his neck off.

Not through his shield which could absorb almost all the impact of P'li's combustion bending, and considering he literally spammed a ice spear in front of Zaheer to try and decapitate him, Tonraq is far more dangerous.

I strongly disagree as shown and explained previously.

We see for a fact Katara knocked down with simple water blasts, sent flying by constructs raised under her, surprise water blasts from below, large waves, Pakku sliding beside her, and immobilized by spammed ice projectiles.

We see her with every advantage humanly possible, being surrounded by water, during the night, against an exhausted Zuko, still manage to fail to defeat him without a distraction because she couldn't handle a non straight forward attack when he uppercut her with a fire kick.

Almost every single instance she fails involves a non linear or complex attack. She is royally in trouble with Tonraq who does that every fight, every time, she cannot repeatedly take large or sharp ice attacks shattering or stabbing her, that's completely different from just being hit with water.

She also doesn't consistently battle mid tiers like he does, he's on a different level all together.

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@tektonic said:

@chloros

That's an odd way of looking at your point you tried to make.

Whether it's speed or just general combat portrayal, it's almost impossible to seriously think that Tonraq would be brought by Zuko to these missions if he was weaker than B1 Katara...

Based on the feats we have to go from we can.

It wasn't more powerful, and taking out fodder is not the same.

It definitely was because of sheer size, and would mop Zuko away, just like he was by smaller water attacks.

Size isn't the only thing that matters, washing away fodder is not the same as washing away a notable combatant. Small attacks can be just as effective.

Not against Katara.

Except for how Pakku brought her to her knees with a decent sized wave of water.

Which she tanked and continued fighting.

She came a lot closer.

No she didn't, a weakened Tonraq literally grabbed a hold of Unalaq.

Grabbing a part of his attire for barley a second and then getting knocked out. It's not as impressive as Katara's ice sheets.

It's because of his fighting style. He has no showings saying he would have lasted longer.

Except the writers literally state in the artbook that he was weakened in order for the battle to be quick(scan on first page), but you shouldn't need a statement it's a given because he had been fighting for hours, and was seriously injured by Desna and Eska's surprise attack so of course he would have to last longer without those issues regardless of their actually being a statement from the writers...

I'm talking about the way he approached the fight, his choice of style.

I've already explained this.

I don't see how this changes what I said.

It just demonstrates the wave at it's apex, which even at it highest point was above the highest seen branches, and it's thickness with how it dwarfed the humans. Together with the much larger length shows how much more volume of water there was compared to Katara's.

It's not higher or about the same as the top of the Oasis freeze though. The width was explained earlier.

I disagree.

Ok.

All you need to do is look at Zuko and count how many of him in length it takes to reach Katara, it's not a lot. Compared to the amount of Tonraq's to scale up the hill, significantly up past the hill in the air, than across to the farthest part of the forest we see. It's not comparable.

It's about the same at best.

They were not weaker.

They were when Pakku stopped redirecting the water and just churned it for a bit than released it as a large wave of water, all Katara could do was brace herself and get washed away.

Pakku's were more direct. And Katara got up and kept fighting, a good showing for durability from her.

They would slice his neck off.

Not through his shield which could absorb almost all the impact of P'li's combustion bending, and considering he literally spammed a ice spear in front of Zaheer to try and decapitate him, Tonraq is far more dangerous.

Or Katara could just evaporate his shield and then spam her attacks. He couldn't land his attacks against Zaheer even when he was knocked down on his back from Korra.

I strongly disagree as shown and explained previously.

We see for a fact Katara knocked down with simple water blasts, sent flying by constructs raised under her, surprise water blasts from below, large waves, Pakku sliding beside her, and immobilized by spammed ice projectiles.

We see her with every advantage humanly possible, being surrounded by water, during the night, against an exhausted Zuko, still manage to fail to defeat him without a distraction because she couldn't handle a non straight forward attack when he uppercut her with a fire kick.

Almost every single instance she fails involves a non linear or complex attack. She is royally in trouble with Tonraq who does that every fight, every time, she cannot repeatedly take large or sharp ice attacks shattering or stabbing her, that's completely different from just being hit with water.

She also doesn't consistently battle mid tiers like he does, he's on a different level all together.

Simple water blasts? They were better combat suited then just raising a wave with help. They were more calculated and were up against an actual skilled opponent and not just barbarian fodder without even having weapons in hand. And before her training we saw her, with Aang's help, stop a large ship from falling down a rushing waterfall (till another boat crashed into the middle of it) Post 51. She wouldn't have a problem stopping Tonraq's wave. We see Katara's use of redirecting, quick tactical thinking like ice locking her feet and looking for advantages in her surroundings (dropping the ice pillars on him), breaking through his defensive shields, either by evaporation or using them to her advantage like sliding up them. We see her holding her own against Zuko in close range combat (a much more experience fighter at the time), and demonstrating her superior power in flashing freezing (Tonraq's demise). Through her style she has shown she is capable for dealing with Tonraq.

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Katara for sure. Better everything.

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@donnieboy16: Nahh, that would be too much of a stomp in katara's favour, I wouldn't put tonraq's speed above b3 katara, and she outclasses him in everything else,

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@user96: just in case you skipped that part , katara is book 1 only

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@tektonic:

I wouldn't say as much as before on this particular argument because it's already toxic and you clearly don't want to be reasoned with.

- you could proceed to call her steamfreezing technique useless in the battle but keep going on about how tonraq has localized freezing for about 3 post. When it's even more useless than S.F? How is that logical?

- Kataras flashfreezing was better than tonraq's even in b1, she used this technique against notable people, larger objects and better fodders, it was one of her go to moves she practically became a master at it before even reaching the north pole. Tonraq only has 1-2 feats of flashfreezing against the lowest of tiers.

- I only capitalized when I was trying to outline a point just like you underline, our media outlets are different and I find capitalizing easier on mine, so it would be quite narrow-minded for you to assume I'm being abrasive because I'm capitalizing.

- I meant ice disks for the spheres part and tonraq doesn't have any.

- ranks are not always a stable system for judging, a if it was, theres no way zuko, a prince sheltered for almost all his life could beat commander Zhao, be better than almost the whole avatarverse, theres no way an untrained katara could hang with pakku and defeat her classmates that started training before her, there's no way Kuvira could hang with suyin in battle yet alone beat her. So like i said before, tonraqs feat of flooding can't be use to gauge his power level without knowledge of his assists stats.

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@chloros: I'm relieved someone else finally admitted her superior flash freezing even before b2, when nobody spoke up against that, I was bugged that everyone actually thought his FF was better.

-I actually came into this with the mindset of tonraq being a more experienced combatant, but my unexpected argument with @tektonic: made me realize how he can't pull an attack chain to literally save his life which was what made him lose against unalaq and MIGHT be his demise against Katara.

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#82  Edited By Tektonic

Sorry Katara but you’re going to have to stay in the back, the spotlights for the Chief of the South
Sorry Katara but you’re going to have to stay in the back, the spotlights for the Chief of the South

@chloros@aystarr Just going to mix and match some of your points

Based on the feats we have to go from we can.

. We see her holding her own against Zuko in close range combat (a much more experience fighter at the time), and demonstrating her superior power in flashing freezing (Tonraq's demise).


He couldn't land his attacks against Zaheer even when he was knocked down on his back from Korra..

Based on feats it's almost completely apparent that Katara will 100% lose to Tonraq, in every way.

Her battle with Zuko only proves proof positive that she cannot beat Tonraq at all. She struggled so badly with an extremely weakened opponent who's power's was sapped by the night(so you can't even use his best power feats from the season) as opposed to hers, and still would have lost even earlier than when she did without him focusing on Aang.

You can't even use this as a speed feat for her because Tonraq blocking a single combustion beam from P'Li tramples it

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Combustion Beams are the seconds fastest attacks in the series after lightning, constantly breaking the sound barrier.

Combustion Beam>>>>>>>>>>>B1 Zuko's Fireballs in speed

Zuko himself was in pretty bad condition, and even at his best in B1 cannot move faster than Dark Spirits with super speed, that failed to blitz Tonraq and was defeated by him.

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Super speed Dark Spirits>>>>>>Injured B1 Zuko

quick tactical thinking like ice locking her feet and looking for advantages in her surroundings (dropping the ice pillars on him),

They were more calculated and were up against an actual skilled opponent and not just barbarian fodder without even having weapons in hand.

We see her holding her own against Zuko in close range combat (a much more experience fighter at the time),

- Kataras flashfreezing was better than tonraq's even in b1, she used this technique against notable people, larger objects and better fodders, it was one of her go to moves she practically became a master at it before even reaching the north pole. Tonraq only has 1-2 feats of flashfreezing against the lowest of tiers.

I'm relieved someone else finally admitted her superior flash freezing even before b2, when nobody spoke up against that, I was bugged that everyone actually thought his FF was better.

-I actually came into this with the mindset of tonraq being a more experienced combatant, but my unexpected argument with @tektonic: made me realize how he can't pull an attack chain to literally save his life which was what made him lose against unalaq and MIGHT be his demise against Katara.

Tactically and numerically speaking Tonraq has used the environment to attack or freeze more than Katara did in s1.

4 times in Rebel Spirit, 3 times in Southern Lights, 1 in Night of a Thousand Stars(but dodged about 7 against him), 1 in Harm's Way while mixing strategy to separate duos(D&E) or cut off vision(Unalaq).

Let's talk about about skilled opponents because Tonraq could survive an ambush by Unalaq, Desna and Eska, and a group of large spirits, and still carry his team into the night.

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Let's not forget with only two pouches of water Tonraq dodged and blocked spammed airblasts from Zaheer before running out of sufficient water, one of the fastest and characters in the series, certainly faster than B1 incredibly fatigued Zuko, who's airbending can clash with Tenzin's and Korra's bending

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Katara cannot keep up with Tonraq, that is completely unfounded and unsupported by the physical movement speed of her opponents and their attacks.

Size isn't the only thing that matters, washing away fodder is not the same as washing away a notable combatant. Small attacks can be just as effective.

Zuko's weight doesn't change, neither does the mass of a wave that size, we have seen him injured by far less repeatedly.

Tonraq can obliterate Large Dark Spirits with super strength and speed that way slap Zuko's physicals and Katara's reflexes on out the door with a simple water blast.

Grabbing a part of his attire for barley a second and then getting knocked out. It's not as impressive as Katara's ice sheets.

He still caught Unalaq, those discs were blocked. Even his basic ice rocks smashed through Desna's shield and pushed him back. Desna would also stomp B1 Katara. Let alone that he did it to both Desna and Eska at the same time.

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I'm talking about the way he approached the fight, his choice of style.

Which would crush Katara as she proved in the battles she lost.

And if anyone needs to work on their style, it's Katara willingly sprinting face first into a water blast.

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It's not higher or about the same as the top of the Oasis freeze though. The width was explained earlier.

It's about the same at best.

You're just repeating the same thing, you said previously they were similar in size, there's no chance that holds up with the addition of the hill, it's mathematically inaccurate and contradictory, the space between Katara and Zuko is only a few meters, that would not fit the distance between the bottom of the hill, into the air, and all the way to the end of the forest shot, it's impossible.

Which she tanked and continued fighting.

Pakku's were more direct. And Katara got up and kept fighting, a good showing for durability from her.

This isn't about tanking, you have to provide a single feat of her tanking rock hard ice attacks, and she will never get a few seconds to pant and gasp on the floor. She was flat out knocked out by slamming into a wooden pole.

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Or Katara could just evaporate his shield and then spam her attacks.

She needs to prove she is stronger than Tonraq, like how she failed to evaporate Pakku's ice attacks.

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Where are the feats?

But he did land a hit on Zaheer(one of the fastest characters in the series) with Korra covering him so that's a cherry picked example.

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Simple water blasts? They were better combat suited then just raising a wave with help.

There just water blasts, and Katara was easily slapped around by them. Even sliding by her and slapping her over physically took her down.

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They were more calculated and were up against an actual skilled opponent and not just barbarian fodder without even having weapons in hand.

We see her holding her own against Zuko in close range combat (a much more experience fighter at the time),

Let's talk about about skilled opponents because Tonraq could survive an ambush by Unalaq, Desna and Eska, and a group of large spirits, and still carry his team into the night.

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and demonstrating her superior power in flashing freezing (Tonraq's demise).

And before her training we saw her, with Aang's help, stop a large ship from falling down a rushing waterfall (till another boat crashed into the middle of it) Post 51. She wouldn't have a problem stopping Tonraq's wave.

This has nothing to do with a fight, Pakku hosed her down with a tiny wave.

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We see Katara's use of redirecting,

Which will fail like Unalaq's far superior version.

breaking through his defensive shields, either by evaporation or using them to her advantage like sliding up them.

Through her style she has shown she is capable for dealing with Tonraq.

None of these were proven effective on higher level waterbenders, certainly not Tonraq.

@aystarr

I wouldn't say as much as before on this particular argument because it's already toxic and you clearly don't want to be reasoned with.

If there is any toxicity it falls on you.

- you could proceed to call her steamfreezing technique useless in the battle but keep going on about how tonraq has localized freezing for about 3 post. When it's even more useless than S.F? How is that logical?

What's logical is reading what I wrote. I'd challenge you to find a single post in this thread where I said he can beat her in battle using localized freezing? I brought it up along with water arms that I said nothing about because you chose to go on about it and conceded she didn't have water arms so that didn't carry forward in the discussion.

- I only capitalized when I was trying to outline a point just like you underline, our media outlets are different and I find capitalizing easier on mine, so it would be quite narrow-minded for you to assume I'm being abrasive because I'm capitalizing.

"- ONCE AGAIN!!!, I AM NOT SAYING ANYONE'S GONNA WIN, STOP USING TONRAQS PHYSICALS, AND THE BETTER COMBATANT(which like I said before, I don't dig) STUFF AS A POINT. ITS IRRELEVANT."

An entire sentence isn't a point, and adding exclamation marks reinforces how you went beyond "underlining".

"ROFL" and "OK" are also not points.

- ranks are not always a stable system for judging, a if it was, theres no way zuko, a prince sheltered for almost all his life could beat commander Zhao, be better than almost the whole avatarverse,

How did you even write that down, when Prince surpasses Admiral in hierarchy…

theres no way an untrained katara could hang with pakku and defeat her classmates that started training before her, there's no way Kuvira could hang with suyin in battle yet alone beat her. So like i said before, tonraqs feat of flooding can't be use to gauge his power level without knowledge of his assists stats.

You’re just proving you don’t understand the point, their title permits them superiority to their underlings comprised of lesser known characters or irrelevant fodder, not characters who aren’t part of that organization to be given a rank.

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chloros

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#83  Edited By chloros

@tektonic Okay, there is so much low-balling going on in that post I don't know where to begin. This would be the equivalent of me posting every scan of Tonraq when he was getting hit, defeated or something bad happening to him. That is exactly what you are doing with Katara, and ignoring everything she's accomplished to fit your narrative. The context you are creating does not make sense. Like using P'li's combustion blast from very far away, to Zuko's fire blasts an inch from Katara's face. That is not a good measure of speed. I feel much of these points have already been addressed and I don't enjoy going into endless, enormous posts that go back and forth forever. With that said, I admire that you went to rep for Tonraq against the majority and challenged my memory on some of these older, more obscure feats I went to look for.

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@chloros said:

@tektonic Okay, there is so much low-balling going on in that post I don't know where to begin. This would be the equivalent of me posting every scan of Tonraq when he was getting hit, defeated or something bad happening to him. That is exactly what you are doing with Katara, and ignoring everything she's accomplished to fit your narrative. The context you are creating does not make sense. Like using P'li's combustion blast from very far away, to Zuko's fire blasts an inch from Katara's face. That is not a good measure of speed. I feel much of these points have already been addressed and I don't enjoy going into endless, enormous posts that go back and forth forever.

Honestly I'm tired, I wasn't even likely going to respond with the last post, until I saw the other guy busting up my notifications after yours. If you believe these points than whatever, I already know we'll go more pages otherwise.

With that said, I admire that you went to rep for Tonraq against the majority and challenged my memory on some of these older, more obscure feats I went to look for.

THANK YOU! It's so hard debating a character with like so little feats(which is why he's up against b1 Katara), and is generally ignored and forgotten by others. I don't even care about him!

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@tektonic: I appreciate your debate. It's fun to try and imagine the outcome and what they could do in these scenarios. And if everyone had just said 'Katara' the thread would have been over long ago without as much interest. I actually like Tonraq's character lol, I'm sure he would love to have you in his tribe.

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@tektonic:

- I capitalized, the speed part because I didn't want to talk About it because that wasn't what our argument was about but you kept bringing it up, I wasn't trying to be Rude or anything, just to be clear on that.

- You misunderstood my commentary and I explained to you cuz I don't want bad blood, but you still thought I was lying, so,I guess there's nothing I can do about it. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. It's OK, we're not children, let's not address that anymore cuz I kinda see where you're coming from (but it was in no way how I meant it), let's just call it a minor difference in literal construction. Cool?.

- Actually, there was a part where I said his L.F technique was useless in the battle and you said something like it's still a part of his skill.

- okay so this is my conclusion on their stats advantage

power- katara

Skill- katara

Physical strength - tonraq

Physical speed - tonraq

Experience - tonraq

Manoeuvres-tonraq

Strategy - katara

Winner - still undecided

- but if you think otherwise, it's fine, lemme see your stats advantage, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree, lol.

- This was fun, had its ups and down,and got rocky at some points but Overall fun.

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#87  Edited By Aystarr

@chloros: @tektonic: I just realized none of us even factored how location might affect this battle.lol.

In my defense tho, I was debating a different thing.

@chloros:, do you think the location could allow tonraq to close in on katara, considering the oasis is quite small ?.

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Tektonic

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@aystarr said:

@tektonic:

- I capitalized, the speed part because I didn't want to talk About it because that wasn't what our argument was about but you kept bringing it up, I wasn't trying to be Rude or anything, just to be clear on that.

Well if you capitalize the entire sentence, the entire thing instead of a small point, it's going to come off as aggravated, especially since you added a lot of exclamation marks for exclamation, and capitalized words in completely unrelated posts. That being said the LF thing kept getting dragged because it kept being challenged by you guys as skill feat.

- You misunderstood my commentary and I explained to you cuz I don't want bad blood, but you still thought I was lying, so,I guess there's nothing I can do about it. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. It's OK, we're not children, let's not address that anymore cuz I kinda see where you're coming from (but it was in no way how I meant it), let's just call it a minor difference in literal construction. Cool?.

Cool.

- Actually, there was a part where I said his L.F technique was useless in the battle and you said something like it's still a part of his skill.

As a precision feat to show skill.

- okay so this is my conclusion on their stats advantage

power- katara

Skill- katara

Physical strength - tonraq

Physical speed - tonraq

Experience - tonraq

Manoeuvres-tonraq

Strategy - katara

Winner - still undecided

- but if you think otherwise, it's fine, lemme see your stats advantage, but I guess we'll just agree to disagree, lol.

- This was fun, had its ups and down,and got rocky at some points but Overall fun.

That's all fine and up to you. I don't like how the debate devolved, so I do hope we just put this away.

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Honestly, This fight can go either way, but this would be a close fight. There are two things we should look upon. The two characters specalizes in two diffrent things. Katara is good at Skill, Power, and Strategy, while Tonraq specializes in Physical Strength, Speed and defenetly has the Experience to beat Katara. But Katara on the other hand shouldn't be underestimated, Nor Tonraq should be too. I give it to Katara for better waterbending skills than Tonraq.