Karnak recently straight up lost to Daredevil. So I don't care if he can punch down a building or some shit. No reason Jason can't still win by out skilling him in H2H or by using a variety of gear.
Karnak is very impressive on paper and he has had some cool feats. Karnak is all flash and no substance. He has some cool showings against people like sabretooth, Hyde, and others, but when he fights people like daredevil or black panther he doesn't do as well.
Karnak recently straight up lost to Daredevil. So I don't care if he can punch down a building or some shit. No reason Jason can't still win by out skilling him in H2H or by using a variety of gear.
Karnak is very impressive on paper and he has had some cool feats. Karnak is all flash and no substance. He has some cool showings against people like sabretooth, Hyde, and others, but when he fights people like daredevil or black panther he doesn't do as well.
So Jason every time.
Wouldn't people like Panther or Daredevil be better than Jason?
I like Karnak a lot, here is ability to find the weakness in things is just an interesting ability to me, but he hasn't been too impressive in the last few years. He should logically be skilled on the level of someone like Gamora given his hype, which is a skill level higher than anyone who's defeated him thus far. Even though he loses, he does get someone recognition in his fights, like in Daredevil Vol.5 #12, Matt stated he had to take him down quickly because Karnak would actually figure out his weakness. Still a shame he got taken down in 3 pages which isn't good at all.
What is it with writers and Karnak? They always want him to look formidable by having him on shot diamonds the size of skyscrapers, but then have him get chumped by almost every Street leverer he crosses path with.
What is it with writers and Karnak? They always want him to look formidable by having him on shot diamonds the size of skyscrapers, but then have him get chumped by almost every Street leverer he crosses path with.
What is it with writers and Karnak? They always want him to look formidable by having him on shot diamonds the size of skyscrapers, but then have him get chumped by almost every Street leverer he crosses path with.
He did beat Black Widow though.
I don't know why, but that makes it worse somehow.
I like Karnak a lot, here is ability to find the weakness in things is just an interesting ability to me, but he hasn't been too impressive in the last few years. He should logically be skilled on the level of someone like Gamora given his hype, which is a skill level higher than anyone who's defeated him thus far. Even though he loses, he does get someone recognition in his fights, like in Daredevil Vol.5 #12, Matt stated he had to take him down quickly because Karnak would actually figure out his weakness. Still a shame he got taken down in 3 pages which isn't good at all.
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At least it looks like Karnak lost in part because he misjudged Matt's blindness or something, which wouldn't happen against Jason
But still, it seems like Karnak's weakness is other martial artists
I feel like a guy who can do this should be good, but maybe that's just the nature of his abilities-he can take down big targets but can't actually counter other martial artists?
I think it's slightly unfair to regard current Karnak as identical to the character he used to be prior to Warren Ellis' revamp -- even though obviously he should, in essence, be the same. And narrowly losing to Daredevil isn't a bad feat by any means.
I think it's slightly unfair to regard current Karnak as identical to the character he used to be prior to Warren Ellis' revamp -- even though obviously he should, in essence, be the same. And narrowly losing to Daredevil isn't a bad feat by any means.
@arcus1: Yea. But still he's been one shotted by black panther. That wouldn't happen to Jason.
Couldn't it though?
Mean Black Panther can one shot Jason? I can't remember that happening to Jason in either the new 52 or post crisis when faced with a top tier fighters.
Mean Black Panther can one shot Jason? I can't remember that happening to Jason in either the new 52 or post crisis when faced with a top tier fighters.
No but he lost pretty damn easily to Batman and didn't Shiva basically one-shot Nightwing who already beat Jason?
Jason can win but to be honest I don't think any of Karnak's low showings wouldn't happen to him.
Mean Black Panther can one shot Jason? I can't remember that happening to Jason in either the new 52 or post crisis when faced with a top tier fighters.
No but he lost pretty damn easily to Batman and didn't Shiva basically one-shot Nightwing who already beat Jason?
Jason can win but to be honest I don't think any of Karnak's low showings wouldn't happen to him.
I like Karnak a lot, here is ability to find the weakness in things is just an interesting ability to me, but he hasn't been too impressive in the last few years. He should logically be skilled on the level of someone like Gamora given his hype, which is a skill level higher than anyone who's defeated him thus far. Even though he loses, he does get someone recognition in his fights, like in Daredevil Vol.5 #12, Matt stated he had to take him down quickly because Karnak would actually figure out his weakness. Still a shame he got taken down in 3 pages which isn't good at all.
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At least it looks like Karnak lost in part because he misjudged Matt's blindness or something, which wouldn't happen against Jason
But still, it seems like Karnak's weakness is other martial artists
Yeah, that could've been what occurred. Karnak can get pretty cocky against his opponents which is good for his current ratio.
@arcus1: It's hard to argue against Jason but even the slightest slip-up could cost him. Also, N52 Jason should be quite a bit ahead of his post-Crisis self in skill, which is why I find composite versions odd. You can't only take the good feats from each version and disregard the rest.
@arcus1: It's hard to argue against Jason but even the slightest slip-up could cost him. Also, N52 Jason should be quite a bit ahead of his post-Crisis self in skill, which is why I find composite versions odd. You can't only take the good feats from each version and disregard the rest.
I thought his N52 and PC versions were relatively comparable (barring plot showings like Jason one-shotting Shiva), could be wrong though as I'm not overly familiar with his pre-new 52 self
Karnak is very impressive on paper and he has had some cool feats. Karnak is all flash and no substance. He has some cool showings against people like sabretooth, Hyde, and others, but when he fights people like daredevil or black panther he doesn't do as well.
So Jason every time.
This, at this point I'm convinced Jason is the second big boss in the batfamily more so than dick
@blackestnight93: yes it makes sense if that does not then nightwing beating red hood does not
It makes sense that Jason one-shotted a better than Batman level fighter via a "shortcut" that she taught him?
The only way it could make sense is by taking Shiva's pride into account-if we say she got cocky and left herself open to that kind of move
Here's the real kicker. Shiva herself pretty much said that in the past, she sometimes had to lose on purpose (Detective Comics Rebirth issue 952) thanks to playing a role when Batman said that he's beaten her in the past. Shiva then proceeded to blitz and stomp Batman casually, something way beyond Jason's skill level
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Jason would never be able to replicate that showing against Shiva now, and even then, the legitimacy of it was questionable
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