Karathen DCU vs Surtur MCU

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Frocharocha

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Title says all. Which of these two titans would win?

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VS

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phoenixdiamond616

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Pretty sure Karathen can pull a win

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Mr_Shazam0920

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Epic battle but I want to say Surtur is bigger and can win due to his sword.

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war of light_2814

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At his peak, Surtur literally stomps.

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DarkPsychicLord_Prime

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Not only Surtur dwarfes it, he also oneshots it.

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Alavanka

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#6  Edited By Alavanka

Surtur.

He's bigger. Better striking feats. Can survive being impaled by skyscraper sized spikes.

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Alavanka

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#7  Edited By Alavanka
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This is to give a perspective of scale. This is an image of Asgard from Marvel Studios. Surtur is able to casually wipe the city of Asgard within a few minutes, merely by swinging his sword around randomly. Surtur actually wrecks most of the city before Hulk punches him. So Surtur is a casual city buster even without accounting for his planetoid busting feat. With the planetoid busting feat, Surtur's destructive capacity completely outmatches Karathen's. Note how massive Surtur is by the time he reaches full height. This is not even Surtur standing. He's kneeling in this image.

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Worldofthunder

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Can go either way, Surtur is ridiculously slow

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Alavanka

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#9  Edited By Alavanka

@worldofthunder said:

Can go either way, Surtur is ridiculously slow

Not true. With the distances Surtur is covering with each of his movements, he's moving extremely fast. This gif is 0.7 seconds, and is Surtur covering a massive amount of distance with his sword.

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This gif is 1.8 seconds, and it is Surtur making 2 movements. He's dragging his sword across the length of a city, and then bringing that sword from above the mountains to the city....all in less than 2 seconds. This is effectively undodgeable for anyone standing in the streets below where Surtur is aiming for. Maybe a speedster or superman could do it, and even then only with flying and getting out of the aoe of of the explosions. Karathen is not dodging these attacks. Especially not on land, where it has to crawl with its tentacles instead of swimming.

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MK39

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Based on threads like these, I don’t think most Viners have a sense for how unimaginably massive Surtur is. At his peak, his sword is literally heavier than the Karathen is. And as mentioned above, at his size, the scaled up movements also make him ludicrously faster than most non-speedsters as well.

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Aka_aka_aka_ak

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Good fight, yeah I think Surtur is larger and his sword is obviously more devastating than anything Karathen can do, but Hulk moved Surtur and Aquaman couldn't do a thing to Karathen. I'll give it to Surtur due to his sword, but honestly we can't be sure

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Stormdriven

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Surtur oneshots

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Amendment50

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Amcu

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#14  Edited By Amcu

Surtur is confirmed to be 4 thousands meters tall. That's 4 kilometers and over 2.4 miles in height. As Surtur stated himself he literally towered over the mountains and that was while kneeling.

Unless I'm completely misremembering its size the Karathen to Surtur would be like a rat to a human. Its completely dwarfed

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Nucleon

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Karathen can beat smallsized Surtur, but mountainsized Surtur eats Karathen like if it was a shrimp.

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Ouroborik

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Can you imagine how awesome it would be if the movie had actually given Surtur more than 3 minutes of screentime?

Instead we got cheesefest Hela and her godawful CGI headpiece.

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TheGerudoKing

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Another decisive win for team MCU

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deltahuman

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Comparing Surtur and Karathen-

Surtur was apparently 4km in peak size. Karathen was recently confirmed to be 2 miles/3.22 km so there isn't much difference in size.

In terms of strength, Surtur's best feat is busting out of the Asgardian Palace. Karathen burrowed from thousands of kilometers down the Earth's crust upto the sea floor (since it was covered in Lava). It simply wiped out a large chunk of the Atlantean force with just its tentacles. In terms of Strength, Karathen >>>>>> Surtur. The feats aren't even comparable.

In terms of energy/heat durability, Karathen no sells lava like it's not even bothering her. A single Atlantean gun can bust a mini hill. Karathen no sold like thousands of those rifles and didn't even flinch. I don't think Surtur can harm Karathen significantly unless it decides to Asteroid bust (we'll address this as well).

Regarding busting Asgard, I think the script of Thor Ragnarok clearly reveals that Surtur could do it only after destroying the Crystal base of Asgard or something. I don't remember it very accurately but there definitely is context behind that feat. Surtur was staggered by Hulk just leaping on him. A single swipe of Karathen's tentacles will topple him and will definitely harm him significantly and Surtur isn't fast enough to escape her. The only thing we're not sure about is Karathen's piercing durability so that's the only reason I'm not saying Karathen downright stomps Surtur

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Supermanthor

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Surtur

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Nucleon

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#20  Edited By Nucleon

@deltahuman: Surtur was apparently 4km in peak size. Karathen was recently confirmed to be 2 miles/3.22 km so there isn't much difference in size.

Yes, there is. Serious people compare the weigth rather than the length. Most of Karathen's length comes from tail anyway. Surtur must weight like a hundred times Karathen. What do you think can happen if you face an opponent that's a hundred times your weight? No match, really.

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azrael1973

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Another decisive win for team MCU

Like they lose every time against Justice League Superman because they are so damn slow?

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azrael1973

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#22  Edited By azrael1973

@nucleon said:

@deltahuman: Surtur was apparently 4km in peak size. Karathen was recently confirmed to be 2 miles/3.22 km so there isn't much difference in size.

Yes, there is. Serious people compare the weigth rather than the length. Most of Karathen's length comes from tail anyway. Surtur must weight like a hundred times Karathen. What do you think can happen if you face an opponent that's a hundred times your weight? No match, really.

That would be the case if they have the same origin, but the karathen is clearly alien. She has not evolved from earth and is more like a cthulian Old One. She has very good strong feats. Being able to tunnel through rock and magma in the deep sea at her size means that she can literally carry millions of tons her back and she has much better durabilty feats then Surtur who was effected by Hulks Punch. Karathen is so much stronger then MCU Hulk that ist's not even funny.

And She has the Skill advantage as she was able to slap Aquaman around in the sea like a child.

And she is a Kraken in the end. Surtur is does massive damage if he can swing his sword, but what if he can't because he is constricted by tentacles.

And the Karathen has the surprise advantage on her side, because she can attack from below. So she will have fist strike and attack from behind anyway.

Karathen wins by actual shown feats.

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Nucleon

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#23  Edited By Nucleon

@azrael1973: Pardon me - by actual feats? Surtur ended up the whole Asgard place with a sword blow, and tanked crane-sized thorns that went straight through him. I care little if Karathen slapped Aquaman around, frankly.

It's like you fighting a ferret.

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azrael1973

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#24  Edited By azrael1973

@nucleon said:

@azrael1973: Pardon me - by actual feats? Surtur ended up the whole Asgard place with a sword blow, and tanked crane-sized thorns that went straight through him. I care little if Karathen slapped Aquaman around, frankly.

It's like you fighting a ferret.

Yes by actual feats. Karathen will surprise him and constrict him with his tentacles. A big sword doesn't get him out. Game over! I care little about the sword blow he is never going to swing.

Karathen got blasted by the entire atlantean army and didn't even flinch.

And you didn't understand me. It's not like me fighting a ferret. It's me fighting a alien ferret. They might be much stronger or weaker. Size doesn't mean anything in fictional battles.

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Nucleon

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@azrael1973: By actual feats, Karathen doesn't even compare. We're talking about a moon-busting entity here in Surtur's case. Karathen vs smallsized Surtur, who was no slouch neither even at that size, would be a more balanced match IMO.

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azrael1973

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#26  Edited By azrael1973

@nucleon said:

@azrael1973: By actual feats, Karathen doesn't even compare. We're talking about a moon-busting entity here in Surtur's case.

A moon busting feat if he swings his magic sword widely something the karathen will never allow him to use. She has the advantage that she doesn't need to rely an a weapon. Sorry you lose.

She is a ancient, wise and intelligent beast. A Great Old One.

If I was fighting a constricting snake and she surprises me. Will a sword, a machine gun or a rocket launcher help me? I don't think so , but you seem to. By feats Karathen wins.

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Helloman

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Karathen wins.

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TheGerudoKing

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@azrael1973: tell me again, who's died more times? Clark or the original members of the avengers?

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Nucleon

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#29  Edited By Nucleon

@azrael1973: Karathen isn't doing anything to full-sized Surtur, who will break any entanglement attempt as easily as you get out of cobwebs, except with flames, absurd strength and a giant sword. And Surtur doesn't need his sword, it's overkill - he can just grab Karathen and take a chomp out of it, casually. Feat-wise, Karathen is laughable when compared to the Surtur that ended Asgard.

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azrael1973

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#30  Edited By azrael1973

@nucleon said:

@azrael1973: Karathen isn't doing anything to full-sized Surtur, who will break any entanglement attempt as easily as you get out of cobwebs, except with flames, absurd strength and a giant sword. And Surtur doesn't need his sword, it's overkill - he can just grab Karathen and take a chomp out of it, casually. Feat-wise, Karathen is laughable when compared to the Surtur that ended Asgard.

Again the sword. He won't be able to use it. Surtur is not the absurd strong one, Karathen is, she can dig through earth despite her massive size. Flames? Karathen baths in molten Lava!

Did you even watch the movie?

If Karathen wants to she can rape Surtur anal with her first attack like in a hentai movie. But her tentacle won't come out of his mouth because he is too big. Anyway it's going to hurt a lot.

Surtur doesn't win this. Sorry!

Full sized Surtur is a bigger then her but not by so much as she is 2 miles long herself.

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If you still don't understand it i will try one more time. Karathen is a grappler, Surtur a striker. If the grappler then surprise the striker because he can attack from directly from below all the striking feats are useless.

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azrael1973

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@azrael1973: tell me again, who's died more times? Clark or the original members of the avengers?

Ah you mean that there are more DC Characters MCU can't touch. Yes you are right! :D

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TheGerudoKing

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@azrael1973: tell me again, how many members of the JL have city busted?

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azrael1973

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#33  Edited By azrael1973

@thegerudoking said:

@azrael1973: tell me again, how many members of the JL have city busted?

Watch the movies yourself, I am bored by you and it's off topic too.

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Mr_Shazam0920

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#34  Edited By Mr_Shazam0920

@azrael1973:

The majority of Karathen’s length comes from her tail. In actual combat she would be much smaller than Surtur.

And since when is Karathen alien? She’s obviously the kraken.. Complete headcannon.

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azrael1973

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#35  Edited By azrael1973

@mr_shazam0920 said:

@azrael1973:

The majority of Karathen’s length comes from her tail. In actual combat she would be much smaller than Surtur.

And since when is Karathen alien? She’s obviously the kraken.. Compleat headcannon.

She is the Kraken? So how did she evolve into the being she is? Or are you a creationist and don't believe in evolution and science?

The tail can be used as weapon as well. She comes from below so she can pierce Surturs ass with her tail. It's a weak point after all.

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TheGerudoKing

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@azrael1973: tell me again, how many hits did it take the Karathen to knock out Arthur?

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azrael1973

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#37  Edited By azrael1973
@thegerudoking said:

@azrael1973: tell me again, how many hits did it take the Karathen to knock out Arthur?

How many hits did your mom need to slap you around when you were small, because that is what she did to Arthur.

I wanted to block you but I had blocked you already. Now I remember why. :D

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TheGerudoKing

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@azrael1973: well if I'm Hela and my mom is Surtur, then it only takes her one hit to knock me out and blow up Asgard.

Tell me again, what has the Karathen done that competes with that?

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Mr_Shazam0920

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#39  Edited By Mr_Shazam0920

@azrael1973:

LMAO! Applying real world science to a comic book movie.

She’s obviously the kraken. Look at her name for goodness sake. This is a world where Zeus exists and also Poseidon. Simple Greek mythology. And you’re talking about the WODC where humans were created by Zeus. So there goes your whole evolution argument.

Also, piercing Surtur with her tail won’t do jack.

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azrael1973

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#40  Edited By azrael1973

@mr_shazam0920 said:

@azrael1973:

LMAO! Applying real world science to a comic book movie.

She’s obviously the kraken. Look at her name for goodness sake. This is a world where Zeus exists and also Poseidon. Simple Greek mythology. And you’re talking about the WODC where humans were created by Zeus. So there goes your whole evolution argument.

Also, piercing Surtur with her tail won’t do jack.

Of course I apply real world science to comic book because they believe in Evolution at DC. Remember Superman One Million?

And it doesn't matter what the Karathen is. Alien or a mythical beast, She is able to burrow earth despite being 2 miles long. Surturs only strength feat is wielding a massive sword slowly and hitting things which can't move with his magic sword.

Surtur is getting assraped.

Continue to wank the guy who doesn't have feats without his sword and got staggered by MCU Hulk. LOL

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@azrael1973:

I’m the one wanking? Lol. When did I say who wins?

I was just calling you out on incorrect information.

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azrael1973

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@azrael1973:

I’m the one wanking? Lol. When did I say who wins?

I was just calling you out on incorrect information.

The information is not incorrect.

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Mr_Shazam0920

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@azrael1973:

You’re right, you were incorrect.

Not going to waste my time with you anymore. G’day.

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Alavanka

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#44  Edited By Alavanka

There being lava does not prove Karathen dug through 2 miles of rock. Look at the area the armies were fighting it. There were cracks on the ground with lava seeping out way before Karathen even showed up. But I digress. Surtur is 4km (2.4 miles), and his sword is pretty much as tall as him. He's swinging a 4km sword around. If he plunged his sword straight into the ground, which he is entirely capable of doing as that's basically what he did in the movie, he would have stabbed into more than 2 miles of rock. If you want to look towards the script, then Surtur's mere arrival causes the bedrock of Asgard to crack into large fissures. The reason Hela was incapacitated for so long was because she fell into one of these fissures.

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Also confirmation that Surtur's sword swings register as city block level attacks. Karathen in the movie took multiple hits at Arthur. She hit Orm too. It did not kill them. Surtur oneshotted Hela. Karathen's physical hits are comparable to Surtur plucking and flinging Hulk at best. She has nothing that can match his city block level sword strikes. Certainly nothing that matches his city busting explosion, or the Asgard busting explosion that follows.

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Nucleon

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#45  Edited By Nucleon

@azrael1973: Full sized Surtur is a bigger then her but not by so much as she is 2 miles long herself.

No - she isn't. This vid puts her at around 300' upright. Even with tail she's far from 2 miles. Plus, it's a relatively slender creature; Giant size Surtur outweights her it's silly. He might well stomp on her by mistake if he's having a party destroying worlds.

Like I've wrote, normal-size Surtur would make a better match. Because even at that size he's amped, you know.

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Alavanka

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#46  Edited By Alavanka

Karathen was stated to be 2 miles by one of the VFX directors, which I guess I can accept as word of god. But Karathen certainly doesn't look to be 2 miles long in the movie, or even in the released concept art. Aquaman would have been around 6"4 given the height of Jason Mamoa. 2 miles is 10,560 feet. That means Karathen has to be 1760x the length of Jason Mamora. Nobody watching the movie by itself will come to the conclusion that Karathen is larger than 600m, and that's a generous estimate. I guess this is just what happens with the DCEU.

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Surtur, on the other hand, actually looks to be 4km. The VFX team didn't just make lip service to that. They painstakingly made sure that actual pixel measurement was consistent. At 800m tall, the voxel size was 16 cm. When he reached full height of 4km, the voxel was at 80cm. The result is that when Surtur is actually towering over Asgard, he looks this large. Even if you had no idea what Surtur's canon height is, you can get a sense of how truly massive Surtur is by comparing him to Asgard. If you can't eyeball these 3 images and immediately come to the conclusion that Surtur is much larger, then I dunno what to say. Now if we take to accept the Aquaman VFX director's comment as accurate, then Karathen scales to around 80% of Surtur's height. Keep in mind that Surtur has a sword that is basically as long as himself, so if Surtur lifts his sword over his head we're looking at 8km of height covered. That is to say, Surtur's sword alone is longer than the length of Karathen. To put this in perspective. My girlfriend is around 80% of my height. Imagine that I had a huge sword as long as my body that can blow up my house if I stabbed my carpet, and my girlfriend turned into a squid with legs and crab claws. That is this fight in a nutshell.

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Mrnoital

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is the fight underwater?

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Mister_Surreal

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#48  Edited By Mister_Surreal

Surtr is a real city buster. He stomps.

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azrael1973

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#49  Edited By azrael1973

@alavanka said:

There being lava does not prove Karathen dug through 2 miles of rock. Look at the area the armies were fighting it. There were cracks on the ground with lava seeping out way before Karathen even showed up. But I digress. Surtur is 4km (2.4 miles), and his sword is pretty much as tall as him. He's swinging a 4km sword around. If he plunged his sword straight into the ground, which he is entirely capable of doing as that's basically what he did in the movie, he would have stabbed into more than 2 miles of rock. If you want to look towards the script, then Surtur's mere arrival causes the bedrock of Asgard to crack into large fissures. The reason Hela was incapacitated for so long was because she fell into one of these fissures.

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Also confirmation that Surtur's sword swings register as city block level attacks. Karathen in the movie took multiple hits at Arthur. She hit Orm too. It did not kill them. Surtur oneshotted Hela. Karathen's physical hits are comparable to Surtur plucking and flinging Hulk at best. She has nothing that can match his city block level sword strikes. Certainly nothing that matches his city busting explosion, or the Asgard busting explosion that follows.

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Karathens arrival took everyone by surprise. So she must have digged deep enough that her movement wasn't seen or felt by anyone. Which must mean that she digged really really deep as she is massive.

It doesn't matter if she is much smaller then Surtur. A facehugger is smaller then a human, so what?

Karathen has surprise on her side and she is quicker then Surtur. He gets assraped and constricted by her tentacles and a much stronger opponent. There is nothing he can do. Breaking through earth>>>>> swing a sword slowly. A trained human can swing a bihander as fast as Surtur but he will not be able to crawl a centimeter through rock.

And Surtur doesn't know where Karathen is when she is below the earth. Karathen has telepathy.

By displayed feats Karathen wins.

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Alavanka

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#50  Edited By Alavanka

@azrael1973: Karathen is not a facehugger. And Surtur is not slow. This gif is 0.7 seconds.

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This gif is 1.8 seconds. Surtur is dragging his sword across the length of a city block, bringing it over his head and swinging it down again - all in less than 2 seconds.

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