Kao Cen Darach vs. Ki Adi Mundi

*Round 1: Lightsabers only

*Round 2: Force fight

*Round 3: All out

vs.

@shootingnova@thevivas@eisenfauste@wollfmyth209@killerwasp@jkbart@cis

Ki

stupid tags, die and kill me now

Round 1: Mundi. Holding off Grievous while tired is better than losing to Malgus.

Round 2: Mundi. Lifting a skiff is better than anything Kao has done with the force.

Round 3: Mundi. More powerful and more skilled.

You've already made a Kao vs Mundi thread, btw.

Ki-Adi-Mundi in a rather good fight. He doesn't dominate Kao Cen Darach, but shouldn't ever be in a bad position throughout the battle.

Mundi.

Mundi bodies because Darach's best and almost only feat is putting up a decent fight against pre-prime Malgus.

Since reverse scaling doesn't really work, he's essentially featless.

@hittheassasin: No, Darach's only feat is putting up a fight against pre-prime Malgus *and* his master, who was noted as one of the best Inquisitors in the Empire.

Mundi, not particularly close.

@thevivas: except, it was 2V2, he had Satele Shan(IIRC) on his side.

Also being noted as one of the best inquisitors in the empire isn't of particular note considering we don't know the average level the Sith of that time had, what was considered impressive etc. Besides, the standard of "one of the best" can't be that high when you're significantly inferior to pre-prime Malgus who shouldn't even be an 8 honestly.

Besides, i don't see how thats particularly relevant considering he was quickly beaten by a pre-prime Malgus when the latter got serious, which nullifies all the claim he had to being impressive in the first place.

@hittheassasin: When Satele escaped, Darach was left to fight both of them by himself with his regular lightsaber and Satele's double-bladed one. He managed to hold his own against the two and fatally wound Malgus' Master (I can't for the love of me recall his name at this moment) before tiring out and losing to Malgus, who appeared to get a second wind.

He's listed among Naga Sadow iirc as one of the best Inquisitors. But besides that, I've noticed you're getting waaaay too hung up on Gillard's number tierimg system when discussing SW battles. There's more to SW battles than "this guy is an 8 so he wins cause this other guy can't be an 8".

That's because you have to look at *why* he was defeated, you can't just say "well he lost so he can't be good" without considering things like context or the fact that Darach tired himself out, etc.

@thevivas:

When Satele escaped, Darach was left to fight both of them by himself with his regular lightsaber and Satele's double-bladed one.

Ah, that's right.

He managed to hold his own against the two and fatally wound Malgus' Master (I can't for the love of me recall his name at this moment) before tiring out and losing to Malgus, who appeared to get a second wind.

His names Vindican.

Honestly, Malgus also had an extensive fight before hand so he was also "tired", so that reasoning hardly cuts it. Especially because Kao Can was throwing around large objects with no visible effort which is hardly a sign of waning force reserves.

The chances are Malgus just started going all-out(maybe he gained power from his masters death, that does happen sometimes) and wrecked him.

He's listed among Naga Sadow iirc as one of the best Inquisitors.

Really? Source?

Also it's funny that he and Naga Shadow are both listed as among the best Inquisitors, yet are both almost fearless and relatively lacklustre.

But besides that, I've noticed you're getting waaaay too hung up on Gillard's number tierimg system when discussing SW battles. There's more to SW battles than "this guy is an 8 so he wins cause this other guy can't be an 8".

I know there's more to it, but i like using that system as it's the only concrete, logical, canonical ranking system we've got and a lot of characters with a bunch of feats where ranked by Gillard(Anakin, Dooku, Fisto etc.), so we know on what level a characters feats/accolades have to be to make them a 7,8 etc.

Besides, being an 8 while the other person is a 7 is almost a guarantee that you'll win considering the tiering includes physical strength etc., as it ranks the person as an overall duelist. Gillard also said that there's massive gaps between the tiers which makes it almost guaranteed that an 8 would beat a 7(excluding special circumstances and PIS, like Obi-Wan vs Maul, Mace vs Sidious etc.). This is also supported by the fact that no 7, 8 or 9 has lost to someone a tier below them in a fair fight(excluding special situations like Mace vs Sidious).

That's because you have to look at *why* he was defeated, you can't just say "well he lost so he can't be good" without considering things like context or the fact that Darach tired himself out, etc.

Of course you have to look at the circumstances, i take that into account when i make my "rankings" based on feats though. Else TPM Obi-Wan would be an 8 for beating Maul, EU Mace a 9 for beating Sidious, Obi-Wan a 9 for beating Anakin etc. However, we don't include special circumstances in the battle forums unless specifically stated, meaning a 9 will always beat an 8 here.

BTW, these circumstances don't really exist though, considering Malgus also had an extensive fight prior to Kao Cen.

Yeah, Ki Adi wins.

There needs to be an updated RT on him.

Mundi.

Mundi

Hmmm why am I not surprised...

@echostarlord117:

:)

@hittheassasin:

His names Vindican.

Honestly, Malgus also had an extensive fight before hand so he was also "tired", so that reasoning hardly cuts it. Especially because Kao Can was throwing around large objects with no visible effort which is hardly a sign of waning force reserves.

We actually see Darach get visibly tired after dealing with Vindican (thanks for that, I couldn't remember it at all) because he puts so much effort into throwing those large pieces of debris and then afterwards when all he could do against Malgus was defend.

Regardless, the only thing I'm arguing against is Darach's only feat being "losing to a pre-prime Malgus".

The chances are Malgus just started going all-out(maybe he gained power from his masters death, that does happen sometimes) and wrecked him.

He killed his Master after he killed Darach.

Really? Source?

Naga Sadow is circled because it's from his RT.

Also it's funny that he and Naga Shadow are both listed as among the best Inquisitors, yet are both almost fearless and relatively lacklustre.

Featless? Yes. Lackluster? No, not really. Sadow suffers from lack of combat showings, but has numerous feats stating he's one of the most powerful Sith in history. Here's his RT so that I don't have to copy paste all of the quotes myself:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/shootingnova/blog/naga-sadow-respect-thread/102886/

Regardless, being listed among Naga Sadow, Darth Jadus, and Darth Baras should paint a decent picture of where Vindican's level is and why Darach holding an edge over him is impressive.

I know there's more to it, but i like using that system as it's the only concrete, logical, canonical ranking system we've got and a lot of characters with a bunch of feats where ranked by Gillard(Anakin, Dooku, Fisto etc.), so we know on what level a characters feats/accolades have to be to make them a 7,8 etc.

Besides, being an 8 while the other person is a 7 is almost a guarantee that you'll win considering the tiering includes physical strength etc., as it ranks the person as an overall duelist. Gillard also said that there's massive gaps between the tiers which makes it almost guaranteed that an 8 would beat a 7(excluding special circumstances and PIS, like Obi-Wan vs Maul, Mace vs Sidious etc.). This is also supported by the fact that no 7, 8 or 9 has lost to someone a tier below them in a fair fight(excluding special situations like Mace vs Sidious).

We've tried the whole "let's put SW characters into tiers to make debating them easier" and it didn't have the outcome everyone thought it would. People's opinions change all the time, and you're never going to agree on where other characters stand unless they were in the movies and explicitly given a tier number. Then you have to deal with "when does a tier branch off into another tier" and questions like that.

Here's the thread for reference:

Legends Tier System

Canon Tier System

Of course you have to look at the circumstances, i take that into account when i make my "rankings" based on feats though. Else TPM Obi-Wan would be an 8 for beating Maul, EU Mace a 9 for beating Sidious, Obi-Wan a 9 for beating Anakin etc. However, we don't include special circumstances in the battle forums unless specifically stated, meaning a 9 will always beat an 8 here.

We don't include special circumstances, but we need to look at other factors such as different lightsaber styles, character's mindsets/tendencies, how often they're known to incorporate Force-based attacks, any modifications to their lightsaber, a character's dueling history and whether or not he's encountered a specific style before, etc.

Using solely the tier system to give a character a win in certain cases isn't what I would do, but to each their own I guess.

BTW, these circumstances don't really exist though, considering Malgus also had an extensive fight prior to Kao Cen.

Just from a visual perspective, Darach looks more tired and winded than Malgus imo, but the purpose of my comments from the beginning was just to point out that, again, his only feat isn't just "losing to Malgus".

@thevivas: It should also be noted that Darachs TK was able to actually KO Malgus for a time whilst Vindicans Lightning could not

I'm going to side with Darach here, his ability to fight evenly an enraged Malgus is more impressive than anything I've seen for Mundi. In terms of force power, while Mundi has better feats, I'd argue Darach is shown as a peer of Decieved Malgus who's feats as of hope seem comparable to Mundi's.

I'll side with Darach here.

edit: I confused zallow for darach who gets wrecked here

is mundi's rt incomplete?

Mind making a case for Mundi here?

The moment Malgus became "enraged" (it's not even a fact), Kao looked like fodder. Also, I don't see how Kao is a peer of Deceived Malgus when Zallow, in Malgus' opinion a greater warrior than Darach, wasn't.

Just about holding your own against Grevious of all people, is far, far, far better than being fodderized by a trainee Malgus. He never fought evenly with that Malgus, and what's more, as another user here said, Malgus being enraged is not a fact.

If you are going to argue that Kao was exhausted, I can easily pull another one like that, by saying that the Jedi on Hypori were quite exhausted before they even met Grevious.

Seriously, where do you get that he was a peer of "Deceived" Malgus?

Mundi wins.

@lordofthelight:

oh wait, I confused darach for Ven Zallow here, mundi takes this, yea..

yea I confused zallow and darach

Mundi easily

Mundi wrecks.

The breadstick is the clear winner here

Darach takes sabers and all-out, while Mundi takes the Force by a slim margin.

Mundi destroys.