Kanan vs Grand Inquisitor (Rematch)

I’ve always wondered if Kanan ever deteriorated due to his blindness, or if he was able to surpass his amped self from the end of Season 1.

So, can Seasons 3-4 Kanan replicate his performance against the Grand Inquisitor from the Season 1 finale? Battle takes place in the same location.

VS

Who wins?

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Kanan

Kanan wacks him

Kanan mid-diffs him at this point.

He has grown above his previous iteration in both Force connection and feats. Which grants him superior augmentation to his previous version. And a higher, calmer battle prowess. And superior Force-Power. I'd argue he can ragdoll at this point.

S3/S4 Ezra could arguably beat season 1 Kanan.

I don't think Kanan's blindness caused him to decline, at least not once he was taught to see beyond the physical by the Bendu. If anything, the loss of his eyes seemed to deepen his relationship with the Force as he'd gone from hiding his identity as a Jedi to actively drawing upon the Force even for the most mundane tasks.

Kanan in Season 1 was already capable of outright ragdolling the Inquisitor in moments of desperation, although admittedly the Inquisitor has landed his fair share of Force attacks on Kanan too. If anything though, the fact they're able to consistently breach eachothers' defences with no clear dominance between them as Force users implies they had parity before Kanan's growth. Logically then, by Season 4 Kanan should be quite comfortably the superior of the Grand Inquisitor as a Force-user, given his notable growth from Season 1.

As for duelling, Kanan and the Inquisitor was initially a one-sided affair in the favour of the not-quite-Sith, but their fights grew increasingly competitive during Season 1, with the GI even complimenting Kanan's progress and resorting to Force usage in their penultimate duel. As the show and accompanying comics continued on Kanan proved himself a good challenge for the Fifth Brother and Seventh Sister, each duel being a competitive one - in fact, the Seventh Sister even teased her "brother" about how he struggled against Jarrus. Kanan to me seems to be in a similar skill bracket to the likes of Cal Kestis and the other Inquisitors on a day-to-day basis, so I don't see why he can't compete even without his amp. It's hard to call as to who is the outright superior, but given that Kanan only grew stronger as time went on I imagine he surpassed his first rival by the time of his death.

To summarise, no, Kanan doesn't just replicate his performance; he exceeds it.

When did Kanan ever ragdoll him? The only instance I can recall is during their first fight, and that was basically a surprise attack while GI was trying to kill Ezra, and his back was turned. I can’t remember any other time Kanan does anything like that to him. GI was very consistently portrayed as far superior in Force power. In literally all of their fights except the final one he just ends it by breaking through Kanan’s defenses with a Force push, Kanan’s incapable of doing anything about it.

An inferior version of Kanan who the GI had been torturing for days defeated him. In a peak state Kanan actively ragdolled the GI ( which, given his TK feats from the Kanan novel and the Rebels comics, makes sense ). An even more powerful version of the character takes this with ease.

Am I just missing something? When did Kanan ragdoll GI? Because that moment in their first fight hardly counts as Ragdolling when it was a surprise attack and he couldn’t even hold him there indefinitely. GI literally does nearly the same thing closer to the season finale and pins Kanan to a wall for a way longer time and with considerably less difficulty.

@a_fine_edition: Poor wording on my part using "moments" as it was the one time that you're referring to, when he's trying to kill Ezra.

Outside of that, there's a couple instances of the Inquisitor breaching his barrier, twice with Force pushes, the first time incapacitating Jarrus briefly of and the second time outright knocking him out, and then the GI also pins Kanan to end their penultimate fight. I went back and rewatched the fights and checked their comic duel, and yeah I do now agree that the Inquisitor is certainly Kanan's superior as a Force user in Season 1, although to Kanan's credit he was able to completely resist the Inquisitors' mind probe - although this might be more due to the GIs pretty underwhelming telepathic abilities as Zare Leonis, a non Force-sensitive, was able to shield information from him during a mind probe.

I do still think that by the time of Season 4, Jarrus is the more impressive Force-user. I'd be open to discuss it if you disagree however, as I've clearly been underestimating the GI a bit in regard to his Force powers.

Kanan

@kaore: Oh I don’t doubt that Kanan got better with the Force by season 4. That feat with the fuel pod is incredible, even if it’s his dying act and possibly the highest-end feat he will ever get. But season 1 Kanan was definitely below GI in Force power (except maybe during the amp in his final duel).

I‘ve thought about doing S3/S4 Ezra against Grand Inquisitor before. Where would you place Ezra? I feel by the later seasons he might be definitively above 5th Brother and 7th Sister.

GI. Close fight perhaps.

@greysentinel365: interesting. So you don’t see Season 4 Kanan as superior to his amped state from the end of season 1?

@greysentinel365: any particular reasoning? I’m only asking because most of the other people in this thread are favoring Kanan here.

@a_fine_edition: Kanan at no point fights another enemy as strong as the GI and instead struggles against much weaker opponents barring extreme circumstances in his favour.

The thing most people point to is the Kanan blog on SW.com that says he grew. The problem is blogs are not editorial. They’re opinion pieces and have no canonical weight. Kanan never performs a feat post S1 that can’t be replicated by or outstripped by previous iterations either. There’s just nothing to say he’s gonna from being a, at best, low diff win from the GI to beating him.

@corinthwesker: umm… Ahsoka isn’t in this matchup.

@greysentinel365: so you don’t feel like he naturally progressed to a higher level? Admittedly his performances in season 2 against what is implied to be lesser Inquisitors than the GI kind of seem to confuse things, I always assumed he got amped during his GI fight to beat him, then dropped back to his average level where he continued to improve. Also, I disagree about him being able to replicate later feats. I cannot see Kanan from season 1 replicating the fuel-pod explosion feat.

@a_fine_edition:

so you don’t feel like he naturally progressed to a higher level?

Not to where he can beat the GI

Also, I disagree about him being able to replicate later feats. I cannot see Kanan from season 1 replicating the fuel-pod explosion feat.

Any Kanan could replicate that feat as it is a "destiny" moment for him. He fated to do it. If he tried on any other day though he would fail.

Why are people saying GI? Kanan beat the GI because he had NO fear, which we know in Rebels comics that he had definitively lost his fear of losing Ezra by S2. He continues to progress and with Bendu’s help he completely loses his fear.

Kanan already beat the GI in a state that’s his base and has continued to progress and grow

@living162637: I think a lot of people assumed he regressed a fair bit due to his performances against assumedly inferior Inquisitors during season 2.

@a_fine_edition:

I can see that to an extent, but I don’t think the gap between Inquistors is quantifiable enough to assert much

That's a good question. Star Wars Rebels' co-creators and executive producers, Dave Filoni and Pablo Hidalgo, labeled the Grand Inquisitor's usual edge over Kanan Jarrus (both in their first encounter, and throughout the show's first season) as much a result of Jarrus' fear and lack of training as it was the Inquisitor's power. Both vulnerabilities can be remedied with time and experience as the show progresses, for sure, although Hidalgo says rather pointedly that Jarrus' incomplete Jedi training will only become more and more glaring a weakness as the story carries on. The latter trait, regrettably, irrespective of any spiritual advancement, appears to be a fixed aspect of Jarrus' character.

In the season finale, Jarrus enters the climatic battle wounded and worn out, and though the Padawan holds his own, there's no doubt that the Grand Inquisitor is dominant in this fight. When Ezra Bridger is dispatched and seemingly killed, Jarrus comes to terms with himself and, believing he's nothing left to lose, approaches the duel with a new tenacity. The combat intensifies as Jarrus poses more of a match for the Grand Inquisitor than just moments prior, and ultimately, the Imperial is bested. I should say though, that Jarrus doesn't necessarily overmatch his adversary -- the Jedi simply disabled the Grand Inquisitor's lightsaber when it was held out in propeller-form, handle completely exposed. The prior swordplay saw the Inquisitor ceding ground here and there, but the overwhelming bulk of Jarrus' headway was achieved via alternating between the energy blaster feature of his second lightsaber.

Kanan Jarrus, the hero, defeats the villain, the Grand Inquisitor, but he doesn't outmatch him. Who's to say what would happen in a rematch? Neither combatant achieved anything decisive in the final showdown. They are more closely matched than ever, though, and Jarrus seemed to have the better hand in their lightsaber exchanges. Is this the result of a circumstantial amplification? I think not. Nor would it make a whole lot of sense for Jarrus to realize the power of the Force and the futility of fear, only to immediately revert back to his comparatively immature self and magically forget this revelation.

According to Filoni, Jarrus and his associates advanced in ability as of season 2, so if Jarrus truly is a proper rival of the Grand Inquisitor, surely it would show against less distinguished members of the Imperial Inquisitorius -- and yet, it does not. Jarrus eventually manages to outmaneuver Fifth Brother on Oosalon, and turns the tide against the Eighth Brother on Malachor after a lengthy engagement, granted, but the Seventh Sister stops him cold.

In all likelihood, the more accurate balance between Kanan Jarrus and the Grand Inquisitor is detailed on Lothal, in the battle preceding their climatic last confrontation. As far as swordsmanship goes, the two appear relatively even -- the Grand Inquisitor forces Jarrus back, but in turn takes a kick from the Jedi, who is able to maneuver himself out from against the wall. The overall advantage goes to the Inquisitor, whose dark side power and alien physical strength prove to be tools Jarrus simply cannot counter.

By the end of the series, Kanan Jarrus' understanding of the Force deepens and deepens, and his efficiency as a lightsaber wielder along with it -- Lord Maul can attest to that. Jarrus' permanent injuries help push him to rely on the Force to guide his physical skills, as opposed to vice versa. Has he progressed enough to surpass the once-overwhelming dark power of the Fifth Brother, let alone the Grand Inquisitor? It's certainly possible. And how might that newfound attunement to the Force direct his lightsaber against the Grand Inquisitor's razor-sharp knowledge of swordfighting?

In-universe, I believe Kanan Jarrus could do it.

Kanan was definitely stronger after he was blinded. He should do just as well against the GI compared to his past amped self.

Vader says kanan/ezra are growing stronger over the course of season 2, GI says it in season 1 and we see Kanan's performances against thq inquistor significantly improve over a short time span. We also see them improve in season 2 against the 5th brother/seventh sister over a short time span.

Where are you getting "kanan struggels against much weaker opponents" from? What does the GI have putting him above s2 inqs's?(also noted to be growing throughout)? As it is, by season 3, even Maul doesn't seem willing to risk a straight fight with him:

[Maul almost kills Kanan] Star Wars Rebels Season 3 Episode 3 [HD] - YouTube

Surely that places him above the grand inqusitor?

Why are we even treating Kanan "letting go of his fear" as some unnatural amplification when kanan is clearly capable of that on his own in season 3 and 4? How is his any different than what Kenobi does vs maul in TPM?

Kanan beats the GI by letting go of his fear, and by the end of the show he's successfully let go of his fear. Why are we trying to bind him to GI when he's already beat him?

Explain to me the distinction between Kanan mastering his fear under bendu and the "amplification" he gets when he has "nothing to fear" vs the GI?

If there's no distinction than why can't we just scale Kanan off his victory vs the GI

@kbroskywalker:

Vader says kanan/ezra are growing stronger over the course of season 2, GI says it in season 1 and we see Kanan's performances against thq inquistor significantly improve over a short time span.

So?

We also see them improve in season 2 against the 5th brother/seventh sister over a short time span.

Do they though? The only thing I can recall is Kanan doing well against 5th on that mist planet. But 5ths dueling feats in general are abysmal and his performance against 7th doesn't change at all.

What does the GI have putting him above s2 inqs's?(also noted to be growing throughout)?

Stomping Kanan easily, who has minimal indications of growth.

Second only to Darth Vader, the Grand Inquisitor was himself a Jedi expert. Using the knowledge contained in the archives of the Jedi Temple (now the Imperial Palace), he equipped himself with information allowing him to exploit the weaknesses of any opponent he could possibly encounter.

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-101-servants-of-the-dark-side/app

and being stated second only to Vader on a page with 5th and 6th blatantly on it. So above them.

As it is, by season 3, even Maul doesn't seem willing to risk a straight fight with him:

Headcanon.

Why are we even treating Kanan "letting go of his fear" as some unnatural amplification when kanan is clearly capable of that on his own in season 3 and 4?

Evidence required

Kanan beats the GI by letting go of his fear, and by the end of the show he's successfully let go of his fear.

Has he? Doesn't seem to do him much good

Why are we trying to bind him to GI when he's already beat him?

Because there were massive circumstances during that. And he hasn't performed on that level again. And even when he was operating on that level he only gained any ground due to having a spare weapon with a blaster function.

@greysentinel365:

So?

Those "indications of growth" are on par with what you've used to "indicate growth" for Kenobi at various parts, to the point you unbinded him vs characters he's been ragdolled by.

-> multiple direct in-text statements

-> clear progression against the same opponents within one season(will retract this regarding 7th sister until i rewatch the fights)

-> spirtual/character growth explicitly stated to be a source of combative weakness in the material

-> is deemed worthy of knighthood after said spirtual growth(something you have used for tpm kenobi)

That's not "minimal", that's clear cut. In fact it's so intergrated into the narrrative(and the general lore of the mythos) that arguing his growth is minimal is story-breaking

Stomping Kanan easily, who has minimal indications of growth.

He doesn't "stomp kanan easily" in their second to last fight. Also, you realize this is circular reasoning, right? Why are you assuming "second to vader" pertains to combative profienciency(though isn't this also just a blog article and therefore as n-canon as the kanan growth quotes you dsmissed?)

Leader of the Inquisitors, vicious bloodhounds assigned by the Empire to pursue the Jedi Order’s shattered remnants, the Grand inquisitor was one of the most prolific Jedi exterminators of his time. Second only to Darth Vader, the Grand Inquisitor was himself a Jedi expert.

More prolific simply means "higher in volume" which you would expect as the grand inqusitor was initally the master to the other inq's. Being more of an "expert' in jedi is also something you would expect as again, he was their master. Nothing in the entry you typed actually pertains to the GI in a versus context beyond him having "considerable skill". 5th Brother gets better combative hype in the next entry.

GI is second to vader in a variety of ways that wouldnt' necceasrily be a reflection of his combative prowess. In fact, taking it as a combative ranking falls flat when we consider that 5th Brother ranks higher than 7th sister here. This makes sense in terms of rank(ranks are noted to explicitly be tied to the number), it makes no sense in terms of combat. You're making an assumption, one that is directly contradicted by their respective performances vs Kanan.

Additionally, as far as Vader, and the inquistors are concerned, Kanan killed the GI, yet Vader sends the two inqusitors to deal with Kanan and Ahsoka(note that they weren't sent as one unit), the season 2 inqusitors don't have any sort of wariness with dealing with Kanan and Ahsoka(both were initially planning to take them on their own, not as a duo), and Kanan defeating the GI isn't taken as a meaningful indication of relative strength by anyone. If the GI trluly is superior to all of them, why isn't he portrayed or treated that way by anyone in the show?

Headcanon.

It's as natural an extrapolation as Kanan being "massively amped". If Maul's goal is to kill Kanan, and he's capable of easily killing him, then why does he take the risk with the vent. Why is Kanan, extremely wary of opponents who actually can just stomp him(vader) have no issue walking alone with Maul? Again, your assumptions are storybreaking.

Evidence required

"Having nothing to fear"(in this context his fear of failing to protect Ezra) is what allows Kanan to overperform:

https://youtu.be/Ech1JvK7Xec?t=108

Gets over it(and is thus deemed worthy of knighthood) here:

https://youtu.be/tnkC5EIBAn8?t=179

This is basically just Kenobi's character arc in TPM

Has he? Doesn't seem to do him much good

Anakin has done worse:

Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Anakin vs. Hondo Ohnaka - Pirates vs. Bounty Hunters [1080p] - YouTube

You know full well the folly of relying on anti-feats with force users in canon. In the second episode of Rebels Kanan is dealing more capably with blasterfire than council masters during order 66. In season 2 he struggles with 2 troopers. Ezra fluctuates from blitzing squadrons to struggling with admiral thrawn. Contesting Kanan growing(which directly ties into all is major story beats in rebels) because there are inconsistencies in minor threads is missing the point. If Kanan is relative to Hera, than the vast majority of missions the rebels go on cease to make sense. Kanan is the "muscle" of the team throughout all of season 1 and most of season 2 with only Ezra filling that role in season 3 and 4.

Because there were massive circumstances during that.

Proof? What circumtance was present beyond "having nothing to fear"? I'll grant you the extra blaster/lightsaber but that was as one-sided a battle as ROTS Kenobi vs Vader

Bump. I saw some debate over this in another thread.