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#1 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

My last thread was both Kakashi and Guy but some people made it seem like a mismatch so let's try this.

Rounds:

R1: Kakashi 3 Tome vs SS Ichigo (no Bankai)

R2: Kakashi single MS vs SS Ichigo with Bankai

R3: Kakashi with MS and Kurama amp vs SS Ichigo with Mask and Bankai

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#2 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 Ichigo mid diff.

R2 Kakashi stomps.

R3 Ichigo mid-high diff.

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#3 Posted by deactivated-5d065fa72d466 (2222 posts) - - Show Bio

R1, Ichigo high diff

R2, Kakashi effortlessly godstomps

R3, Kakashi effortlessly godstomps

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#4 Edited by ovy7 (3277 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo all rounds.

Inb4 Kid Kakashi is 1/3 LS.

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#5 Posted by crackshotboi (441 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 Ichigo mid diff.

R2 Kakashi stomps.

R3 Ichigo mid-high diff.

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#6 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

Ichigo all rounds.

Inb4 Kid Kakashi is 1/3 LS.

Anyone who uses the kid Kakashi lightning timing statement is wanking, but war arc MS Kakashi fought against multiple V2 jinchuriki with Gai, which puts him a bit above lightning speed.

Ichigo doesn't have any speed feats near this in SS arc. The databook statement is an obvious hyperbole, so we only know that Ichigo is significantly slower than mach 500 and a good deal above explosion timing.

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#7 Posted by SleepingSlaves (1083 posts) - - Show Bio
  • Round One: Ichigo stomps.
  • Round Two: Ichigo stomps.
  • Round Three: Ichigo wins.
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#8 Posted by Woodward (398 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo wins the 1st round.

Kakashi wins the 2nd. He can’t counter Kamui.

DMS Kakashi solos Bleach verse.

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#9 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@woodward: he doesn't have DMS he has his single MS and Kurama's 3x amp which allows him to spam Kamui and use it on Tailed beast sized targets.

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#10 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@worldofruin6: ichigo cutting all of the blades if zenbon sakura also backs up him being lightning iirc. You could wank it to say it puts him higher though

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#11 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

@theemperor95: My only problem with this is that it's inconsistent. FKT arc bankai Ichigo was mach 500 and he had been through multiple tiers of blitzing and being blitzed since SS arc. Like I said, all we know is that Ichigo is a good deal above Oriheme's explosion timing and significantly slower than mach 500.

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#12 Posted by JOVIOLMA (7027 posts) - - Show Bio

Ichigo wins round 1

Could go either way in R2

Kakashi stomps with low difficult at R3

Online
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#13 Posted by UltimateSage (3691 posts) - - Show Bio

R1, Ichigo high diff

R2, Kakashi effortlessly godstomps

R3, Kakashi effortlessly godstomps

This^

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#14 Posted by ovy7 (3277 posts) - - Show Bio

@worldofruin6:

Anyone who uses the kid Kakashi lightning timing statement is wanking,

Fully agree, I was mostly memeing with that.

but war arc MS Kakashi fought against multiple V2 jinchuriki with Gai, which puts him a bit above lightning speed.

Why would that put him above lightning timing? What makes the V2 Jin lightning speed?

Ichigo doesn't have any speed feats near this in SS arc. The databook statement is an obvious hyperbole, so we only know that Ichigo is significantly slower than mach 500 and a good deal above explosion timing.

But Orihime reacted to multiple point-blank explosions, put her shield up, and got a dude from the 11th Division behind the shield, all of it in that time-frame. Uryu himself was also surrounded by those explosions and they were already set off around him and he was still fast enough to get behind Orihime's shield without being affect by the explosions.

Uryu's speed wasn't that impressive to Mayuri, a Captain that isn't much in stats (at least in the SS Arc), and Shikai Ichigo was capable of fighting evenly against Byakuya, one of the fastest Shinigamis. Ichigo's Bankai is a 5 to 10x multiplier (especially as his Bankai is focused on speed), and even without that, Byakuya's Bankai was easily overwhelming Ichigo, but even after Byakuya doubled its speed, Bankai Ichigo was still fast enough to react and deflect all of the Senbonzakura petals even tho he was surrounded and the petals were centimeters away from him.

SS Bankai Ichigo is pretty fast, and while the lightning thing from the databook is probably a hyperbole, I won't put Bankai Ichigo that far from lightning speed.

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#15 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Ichigo's Bankai doesn't amp speed 5-10x if it did Byakuya wouldn't have caught up with him using a 3x amp to his petal speed. That means Ichigo's Bankai amps his speed 2.5xish to 3x.

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#16 Posted by uchihaghost (993 posts) - - Show Bio

I see ichigo only winning round 1 and ends up losing both rounds... mind you kakashi has precog and is massively smaarter.

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#17 Posted by ovy7 (3277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_stark: but Byakuya didn't caught Ichigo even after the boost to the petals, Ichigo swatted away all the petals before they could even get close enough to him even tho he was surrounded. I already said all of that in my comment, Bankai Ichigo was much faster that Senbonzakura even after the speed boos from Byakuya.

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#18 Edited by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: he did catch up, Ichigo had to atop running and swat them away because they had caught up.

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#19 Posted by Woodward (398 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_stark: My bad. Well, Kakashi should also win that round too.

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#20 Posted by shirso (4641 posts) - - Show Bio

Lel at DMS Kakashi soloing Bleach

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#21 Edited by ovy7 (3277 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_stark said:

@ovy7: he did catch up, Ichigo had to atop running and swat them away because they had caught up.

They caught Ichigo because he was in midair, and he still casually deflected all of them faster than the petals could cross the several centimeters between them and Ichigo's body. If Ichigo was just slightly faster than Senbonzakura, then the petals would have overwhelmed him, which they clearly didn't:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Not to mention that Ichigo was FTE and blitzing Byakuya, who should be at least as fast as the boosted Senbonzakura (because he controls them, meaning he needs a similar speed to be able to do that), so that's another proof of Bankai Ichigo being much faster than the boosted Senbonzakura

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5

I actually calculated the Senzonzabura feat a while ago, and Ichigo would have need to be tens of times faster than the petals for him to do that feat.

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#22 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: mid air or not they caught up and was forced to turn and counter thus proving he's not 5-10x faster.

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#23 Posted by WorldofRuin6 (3867 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7:

Fully agree, I was mostly memeing with that.

Word.

Why would that put him above lightning timing? What makes the V2 Jin lightning speed?

Obito's base jins were keeping up with B and KCM Naruto. The V2 jins were overpowering B and Naruto. This was partially due to the linked sight, but still a solid feat that should put them at lightning speed. MS Kakashi and Gai kept up with these same jinchuriki.

But Orihime reacted to multiple point-blank explosions, put her shield up, and got a dude from the 11th Division behind the shield, all of it in that time-frame. Uryu himself was also surrounded by those explosions and they were already set off around him and he was still fast enough to get behind Orihime's shield without being affect by the explosions.

Oriheme had a last second warning, which makes the feat slightly less impressive. Uryu is obviously faster than Oriheme tho.

Uryu's speed wasn't that impressive to Mayuri, a Captain that isn't much in stats (at least in the SS Arc), and Shikai Ichigo was capable of fighting evenly against Byakuya, one of the fastest Shinigamis. Ichigo's Bankai is a 5 to 10x multiplier (especially as his Bankai is focused on speed), and even without that, Byakuya's Bankai was easily overwhelming Ichigo, but even after Byakuya doubled its speed, Bankai Ichigo was still fast enough to react and deflect all of the Senbonzakura petals even tho he was surrounded and the petals were centimeters away from him.

This is my point. Ichigo is a decent, unquantifiable amount above explosion timing and a significant amount slower than mach 500.

SS Bankai Ichigo is pretty fast, and while the lightning thing from the databook is probably a hyperbole, I won't put Bankai Ichigo that far from lightning speed.

Based on his feats and scaling at this point and after, I think Ichigo is mach 100-200. Probably lightning speed with his mask or a tad above.

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#24 Posted by BrainDrain (624 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

Lel at DMS Kakashi soloing Bleach

May I ask what's so hilarious about this conclusion when he eclipses everyone in every relevant category (including DC) all the while being completely untouchable, even to the likes of the almighty?

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#25 Edited by BrainDrain (624 posts) - - Show Bio

War arc Kakashi no diffs any version of ichigo btw. To say a statement made from the mouth of Kishimoto is wanking is laughable. Kid kakashi is lightning timing whether you like it or not.

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#26 Posted by ourmanuel (12283 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7 said:

Ichigo all rounds.

Inb4 Kid Kakashi is 1/3 LS.

Anyone who uses the kid Kakashi lightning timing statement is wanking, but war arc MS Kakashi fought against multiple V2 jinchuriki with Gai, which puts him a bit above lightning speed.

Ichigo doesn't have any speed feats near this in SS arc. The databook statement is an obvious hyperbole, so we only know that Ichigo is significantly slower than mach 500 and a good deal above explosion timing.

No.....

But yeah, kakashi definitely wins round 3.

SS arc ichigo doesn’t have enough feats, even with zangetsu’s mask.

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#27 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ovy7: Also only Byakuya's petals Increase in speed he himself doesn't.

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#28 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

Kakashi intercepted Lighting against Kakazu btw he's easily a lightning timer or slight above I feel like his speed is underrated.

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#29 Posted by CaptFalcon725 (1262 posts) - - Show Bio

These threads just get more and more vitriolic huh?

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#30 Posted by Woodward (398 posts) - - Show Bio

@braindrain: Don't bother with that guy. He said Aokiji stomps Rikudo Naruto by freezing him.

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#31 Posted by Woodward (398 posts) - - Show Bio

Saying Kakashi isn't lightning mach is outright denying a manga fact. Gai literally saw Kakashi do it and stated, reinforced in the databook. All written by the author and some people think their words hold more value than the author himself.

Kakashi blitzes Ichigo until it's proven the latter has lightning speed and reflexes, which he does not.

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#32 Posted by TOPAZZZ (178 posts) - - Show Bio

r1 ichigo

the next two rounds go in kakashi’s favour

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#33 Posted by TheEmperor95 (1675 posts) - - Show Bio

@worldofruin6: actually he dodged a mach 1000 as well but that aside ichigo didn't have a massive leap like people think. He was actually significantly weaker at the beginning of the arrancar arc due to his hollow messing with him. After he defeated it he didn't get a jump in strength until he mastered it during his fight with grimmjow. After his ulquiorra fight his power was all over the place again due to his fear of his hollow side

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#34 Posted by shirso (4641 posts) - - Show Bio

@braindrain: DMS has a time limit and the more powerful Sternritters beat him

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#35 Posted by ourmanuel (12283 posts) - - Show Bio

When people think a reaction feat is a combat feat.

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#36 Edited by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: To whom is this directed at? Kakashi or Ichigo because I feel like both are at the Lightning level which is why I made the thread.

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#37 Posted by ourmanuel (12283 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_stark: ichigo being lightning fast in SS arc is unsusbstantiated unless you use his feat against senbonzakura’s blades which is outlierish.

Kakashi simply isn’t lightning speed, unless you agree that MS sasuke is too.

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#38 Edited by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel:

I don't think MS Sasuke and Kakashi ever had a serious fight other than Sasuke using the arrow which Kakashi countered.

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#39 Posted by ourmanuel (12283 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_stark: they did before the susanoo thing, but it was off screen. That’s how they ended up below the bridge.

He’s just not that fast, people just want him to be because he tagged lightning.

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#40 Posted by Scythenger (557 posts) - - Show Bio

How does ms kakashi beat ss arc bankai ichigo? What speed feats does ms kakashi has that puts him on par with ss arc bankai ichigo? Ichigo also said he could go a little faster in bankai and only started to slow down because his bankai was breaking his bones if I remember it correctly.

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#41 Posted by Mister_Stark (1510 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: He intercepted Lighting in a fight against Kakazu

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#42 Posted by SleepingSlaves (1083 posts) - - Show Bio

@shirso said:

Lel at DMS Kakashi soloing Bleach

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#43 Posted by AGrape (284 posts) - - Show Bio
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#44 Posted by Rabii99 (1934 posts) - - Show Bio

DMS Kakashi can't solo Bleach but he stomps any Bleach character 1v1 except for SK Yhwach.

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#45 Posted by Skrskr (3693 posts) - - Show Bio

@braindrain: lightning timing from a cloud in the sky isn’t as impressive as you would think, you would only need to move at Mach 5.72. (Which is actually inline with speed feats from young ninja)

The downstroke of lightning is not 1/3 the speed of light, the upstroke is. If kakashi cut a bolt of lightning on the way down we are dealing with the downstroke of lightning.

Storm clouds when in the dissipation state are at about 20,000 feet in the air and the speed of the lightning downstroke is about 220,000 mph or Mach 286.

Kakashi if he is cutting the bolt only has to swing his arm about 2-4 feet while the bolt has to travel 20,000 feet to even reach him.

This feat is not as impressive as you think.

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#46 Posted by silentNightz (801 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: Ichigo mid diff. This Kakashi isn't impressive at all, Ichigo's sword skills is ample to handle him and he's not surviving Zangetsu so much as touching him.

R2: Arguably Kakashi high diff or Ichigo low-mid diff. If Kakashi can catch Ichigo with Kamui, it'll be devastating but we've seen it can be avoided with movement speed which Ichigo is ALL about. Ichigo does the afterimage blitz he did to Byakuya and Kakashi is a dead man. Kakashi's stronger than he was before but his stats haven't risen by much, surely not by the amount bankai gives Ichigo.

R3: Ichigo no questions, no diff. Being a lightning timer is super insufficient at this level, so Kakashi no longer has the physical feats to handle. His only hope becomes ninjutsu, Kamui in particular, but the use of this technique puts a huge strain on his chakra and his body. Ichigo ghosts his perception and Kakashi has a sword up to the hilt in his chest. He may not die immediately, but he certainly won't survive that wound.

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#47 Posted by silentNightz (801 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabii99: explain urself. DMS Kakashi was so thick with plot armor it even made Naruto fans gag, and thus he kinda sucked. He was barely useful at all, along with Sakura who was entirely irrelevant as soon as Kaguya showed up. The Kamui Shuriken are cool and all but if he hadn't been using it against a massive distracted, angry rabbit monster any character with higher field mobility would avoid it. I can't think of many characters EoS in Bleach that can't trash him.

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#48 Posted by Rabii99 (1934 posts) - - Show Bio

@silentnightz: "I can't think of many characters EoS in Bleach that can't trash him". Pick one character that you think wins against DMS Kakashi and we can have an argument. No SK Yhwach tho.

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#49 Edited by silentNightz (801 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabii99: Shunsui, Toshiro, Byakuya, Kenpachi, Jugram, Bazz B, Renji, Rukia, As Nodt, Yoruichi, Kisuke, Pernida, Lille, Gerard, Ichibei, Oetsu, Uryu, Candace, Shinjni, Kensei, Hachi, Rose, Yamamoto, Ichigo, Tsukishima, Ginjo, Gremmy, Yachiru...like I can't think of many people he actually can beat. You can choose ANYONE listed here and I can easily justify them murdering Kakashi in combat.

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#50 Posted by SleepingSlaves (1083 posts) - - Show Bio

@rabii99: Can I take you up on this debate?