Kakashi of the Sharingan vs 4 Hokage

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andr413

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Kakashi is bloodlusted

Hokages are alive

No preparation, restriction

Round 1: No knowledge

Round 2: Full knowledge

Location: Great Ninja War

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44orhsaJ

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As long as he doesn't get blitzed kakashi should win.

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D3athstroke

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#3  Edited By D3athstroke

Bringer of Darkness. GG.

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SSJBatdan

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#4  Edited By SSJBatdan

Considering Hashirama's whole deal was fighting a guy with an MS, I don't see how he can possibly beat them all and come out alive.

We know one MS was too slow for Madara, and two caught him off guard. There is a lot of timing with the kamui. Unless he kills the 2nd first, Kakashi loses. 2nd won't hesitate to kill him.

So, based off quick and simple reasoning, Kakashi gets a 3/10 (at best) in my book.

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MudaMudaMuda

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#5  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

Bringer of Darkness. GG.

As if that'd work on a sharingan user.

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D3athstroke

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@d3athstroke said:

Bringer of Darkness. GG.

As if that'd work on a sharingan user.

It blocks eyes, it was made to counter sharingan by Clan with grudge against Uchihas.

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MudaMudaMuda

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@mudamudamuda said:

@d3athstroke said:

Bringer of Darkness. GG.

As if that'd work on a sharingan user.

It blocks eyes, it was made to counter sharingan by Clan with grudge against Uchihas.

It blocks normal eyes, and has never been stated to be useful against Uchihas. Sharingan can see right through Genjutsu, why do you think Hashirama never bothered using it against Madara ?

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Chimeroid

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Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

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SSJBatdan

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#9  Edited By SSJBatdan

@chimeroid said:

Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

He'd beat the 3rd (in his old age).

I also think a huge point of Kakashi is to have a Hokage with the sharingan that isn't an Uchiha. I can see arguing that he could beat the 2nd and 4th in a 1v1, but nothing suggests he can beat the guy who beat Madara.

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Chimeroid

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#10  Edited By Chimeroid

@chimeroid said:

Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

He'd beat the 3rd (in his old age).

I also think a huge point of Kakashi is to have a Hokage with the sharingan that isn't an Uchiha. I can see arguing that he could beat the 2nd and 4th in a 1v1, but nothing suggests he can beat the guy who beat Madara.

Maybe he could beat the Professor but just barely.. He was known as a God of Shinobi for a reason.

I see no possible way he would stand a snowballs chance in hell vs Minato... That man soloed the entire Iwa army in moments.

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SSJBatdan

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@ssjbatdan said:

@chimeroid said:

Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

He'd beat the 3rd (in his old age).

I also think a huge point of Kakashi is to have a Hokage with the sharingan that isn't an Uchiha. I can see arguing that he could beat the 2nd and 4th in a 1v1, but nothing suggests he can beat the guy who beat Madara.

Maybe he could beat the Professor but just barely.. He was known as a God of Shinobi for a reason.

I see no possible way he would stand a snowballs chance in hell vs Minato... That man soloed the entire Iwa army in moments.

Yeah he WAS known as a God of Shinobi. I just think based on his duel with Orochimaru, and how much Orochi wanted a sharingan, Kakashi's full strength sharingan gives him a major edge against the old 3rd.

Personally, I don't think Kakashi could beat the 4th, either. I'm just willing the hear out the argument and give Kakashi the benefit of the doubt.

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RedRanger

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The man with the Intangible flying Susanoo wins this....

On topic rant:

Towards the end of the Naruto series the writing consistency turned from an over-site into an absolute travesty very quickly, it seemed like Kishi decided to give all the main characters a godly boost just to wrap things up to the 700th chapter end.... there are plenty of examples of this, but I feel that Kakashi is the epitome of it.

It started with the Inconsistencies in his chakra prowess; going from using techniques that would hospitalize or even kill him, to using them consecutively in one battle. This is a forgivable offense because they had to upgrade him if he was to stay relevant to the series; however, even Kamui's use became disproportionately powerful with the standards of Mangekyou Sharingan techniques.

It was originally proposed that the Rinnegan was the ultimate eye, the natural evolution of the Sharingan yet I'd argue that DMS Kakashi is beyond the like of Nagato with both Rinnegan, and far far far above Itachi; bless his name, even though he shouldn't be. Kumai was so out of the league of abilities like Amerterasu yet no explanation was given to why Obito's eyes were so special...

Kakashi's perfect Susanoo really was the final straw, It went against the rule of having to have Amerterasu and Tsukuyomi to use it, Obito's explanation that only a few rare uchaiha's possess it and the fact that Kakashi skipped all the previous stages to attain it's strongest version.

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SSJBatdan

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#13  Edited By SSJBatdan

@redranger said:

The man with the Intangible flying Susanoo wins this....

On topic rant:

Towards the end of the Naruto series the writing consistency turned from an over-site into an absolute travesty very quickly, it seemed like Kishi decided to give all the main characters a godly boost just to wrap things up to the 700th chapter end.... there are plenty of examples of this, but I feel that Kakashi is the epitome of it.

Yeah. I've felt this for a long time. It went to such an absurdly bad level when he introduced reincarnation, literally out of nowhere, to phone in a power boost. My girlfriend and I are watching Naruto and we're up to Sasuke vs Naruto (pre-Shippudden) and every time something stupid happens, I'm like, "Just wait...that's only stupid for the Narutoverse. Kishi gets insane towards the end."

The thing is, with B/S power ups, unless you have a clear reference, they mean almost nothing and only turn into speculation.

Just compare Kakashi's b/s power up to the saga long talk of Goku turning Super Saiyan. It is promoted the right way. Just thinking about the end of Naruto makes me respect Toriyama so much more. Yeah, Naruto may have better relationships (mostly because there is a shit ton of them, so I can argue that DBZ's more subtle relationships are, on a whole more interesting--Kishimot's just provoke more emotions in the moment) but Toriyama's writing for the progress of his heroes' fighting abilities, is lightyears better. Kishi goes much by the rules of "because I said so, accept it" towards the end. He probably wanted it over already. I really want to see the interview where Kishi says Madara is Nappa level. So far, no one has provided it to me. People use it as some sort of proof, but if it's true that he said that, it only makes Kishi even more insane. So now he can just arbitrarily say how strong his characters are, and his fans believe it? That'd be like if Toriyama came out sand said, "SSJG Goku is stronger than the Christian God."

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98115

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hokages

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TheVivas

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@redranger:

It started with the Inconsistencies in his chakra prowess; going from using techniques that would hospitalize or even kill him, to using them consecutively in one battle. This is a forgivable offense because they had to upgrade him if he was to stay relevant to the series; however, even Kamui's use became disproportionately powerful with the standards of Mangekyou Sharingan techniques.

People get stronger over time, at least while still in their prime years. Not to mention Kakashi had two amps when he was basically spamming Kamuis, one was when Naruto gave him chakra, the other when he got both of Obito's eyes, he also received some of the So6P's chakra.

It went against the rule of having to have Amerterasu and Tsukuyomi to use it,

So did Madara's but hey, it's not like anyone noticed that, right?

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@redranger:

It started with the Inconsistencies in his chakra prowess; going from using techniques that would hospitalize or even kill him, to using them consecutively in one battle. This is a forgivable offense because they had to upgrade him if he was to stay relevant to the series; however, even Kamui's use became disproportionately powerful with the standards of Mangekyou Sharingan techniques.

People get stronger over time, at least while still in their prime years. Not to mention Kakashi had two amps when he was basically spamming Kamuis, one was when Naruto gave him chakra, the other when he got both of Obito's eyes, he also received some of the So6P's chakra.

People do get stronger over time, but to just start spamming attacks he couldn't before, while not showing him train or mentioning it, is poor writing.

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TheVivas

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Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

The only one that would curbstomp him is maybe Hashirama, and that's only because he's fought against a Perfect Susanoo before. There's no way the Third, Second, or Minato are stomping him without any knowledge. Kakashi has Kamui, Perfect Susanoo that can fly, Kamui techniques, and intangibility, plus he's bloodlusted. Even without knowledge, as the previous Hokage(and one of them was his Sensei) he already knows most of the information he needs to know about them to give him an advantage, whereas the only people that know about him are Minato and Hiruzen, but even then neither of them witnessed him using PS.

The only reason he loses is because Hashirama is here. That's it.

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Sy8000

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Why can't Hashirama solo?

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@chimeroid said:

Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

The only one that would curbstomp him is maybe Hashirama, and that's only because he's fought against a Perfect Susanoo before. There's no way the Third, Second, or Minato are stomping him without any knowledge. Kakashi has Kamui, Perfect Susanoo that can fly, Kamui techniques, and intangibility, plus he's bloodlusted. Even without knowledge, as the previous Hokage(and one of them was his Sensei) he already knows most of the information he needs to know about them to give him an advantage, whereas the only people that know about him are Minato and Hiruzen, but even then neither of them witnessed him using PS.

The only reason he loses is because Hashirama is here. That's it.

You really think the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th couldn't beat Kakashi as a team?

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D3athstroke

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@d3athstroke said:

@mudamudamuda said:

@d3athstroke said:

Bringer of Darkness. GG.

As if that'd work on a sharingan user.

It blocks eyes, it was made to counter sharingan by Clan with grudge against Uchihas.

It blocks normal eyes

It blocks eyes. Proof of it not blocking Sharingan or gtfo.

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SSJBatdan

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#21  Edited By SSJBatdan

It blocks eyes. Proof of it not blocking Sharingan or gtfo.

The 2nd beat a regular sharingan, as a child, without the technique, I might add.

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TheVivas

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#22  Edited By TheVivas

@ssjbatdan said:

@thevivas said:

@chimeroid said:

Any of those would curbstomp him.. What is with this Kakashi worship that is going on?

The only one that would curbstomp him is maybe Hashirama, and that's only because he's fought against a Perfect Susanoo before. There's no way the Third, Second, or Minato are stomping him without any knowledge. Kakashi has Kamui, Perfect Susanoo that can fly, Kamui techniques, and intangibility, plus he's bloodlusted. Even without knowledge, as the previous Hokage(and one of them was his Sensei) he already knows most of the information he needs to know about them to give him an advantage, whereas the only people that know about him are Minato and Hiruzen, but even then neither of them witnessed him using PS.

The only reason he loses is because Hashirama is here. That's it.

You really think the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th couldn't beat Kakashi as a team?

Kakashi went up against Kaguya.

Kaguya > 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

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RedRanger

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#23  Edited By RedRanger

I don't see how Hashirama along with others are not getting BFR'd

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

Kakashi went up against Kaguya.

Kaguya > 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

For one, didn't the 4th have no arms? Edo Tensei's weren't their true strength, either.

Did Kakashi beat Kaguya? No.

I can't see how this even begins to be a fair comparison.

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MudaMudaMuda

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#25  Edited By MudaMudaMuda

@d3athstroke said:

It blocks eyes. Proof of it not blocking Sharingan or gtfo.

Excellent argument *applause*

How about you prove that the eye that was explicitly stated to be able to see through Genjutsu wouldn't be able to see through a basic genjutsu like that or GTFO as you say yourself ?

We aren't here to discuss your assumptions.

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TheVivas

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

Kakashi went up against Kaguya.

Kaguya > 2nd, 3rd, and 4th

For one, didn't the 4th have no arms? Edo Tensei's weren't their true strength, either.

Did Kakashi beat Kaguya? No.

I can't see how this even begins to be a fair comparison.

Again, what's their counter to Kamui, Kamui techs, intangibility, Perfect Susanoo, and a flying Perfect Susanoo?

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

Again, what's their counter to Kamui, Kamui techs, intangibility, Perfect Susanoo, and a flying Perfect Susanoo?

Speed, for the 2nd and 4th. They have their own time-space ninjutsu. Even if Kakashi is bloodlusted, he's unlikely to open with his trump card, meaning he can get marked.

3rd probably loses.

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TheVivas

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@ssjbatdan:

They have their own time-space ninjutsu.

Which requires a tag. Neither of them are going to be tagging him.

Even if Kakashi is bloodlusted, he's unlikely to open with his trump card,

You're right, he can just sit in his Susanoo and they can't touch him. Or he can fly up in the air and rain down attacks. But tell me, why wouldn't he start out with Kamui?

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

You're right, he can just sit in his Susanoo and they can't touch him. Or he can fly up in the air and rain down attacks. But tell me, why wouldn't he start out with Kamui?

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

As for Susano'o, yeah, it's a problem, but Gaara proved you can go under it.

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kgb725

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Flying thunder god edo zombies and the 4 corners jutsu will be big here that's not even mentioning Hashirama

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TheVivas

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@ssjbatdan:

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

Even in character, he'd start off in Susanoo, so there's no way they're tagging him.

but Gaara proved you can go under it.

Gaara's not in this fight, none of the Kage have a means to get under Susanoo the way he did, Gaara only pulled Madara out in his regular Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo(Kakashi floats around the head area in his Susanoo), plus he can fly.

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan:

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

Even in character, he'd start off in Susanoo, so there's no way they're tagging him.

but Gaara proved you can go under it.

Gaara's not in this fight, none of the Kage have a means to get under Susanoo the way he did, Gaara only pulled Madara out in his regular Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo(Kakashi floats around the head area in his Susanoo), plus he can fly.

No kidding he's not, the point is, Susano'o has a weakness that was overcome by a simple sand technique.

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TheVivas

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan:

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

Even in character, he'd start off in Susanoo, so there's no way they're tagging him.

but Gaara proved you can go under it.

Gaara's not in this fight, none of the Kage have a means to get under Susanoo the way he did, Gaara only pulled Madara out in his regular Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo(Kakashi floats around the head area in his Susanoo), plus he can fly.

No kidding he's not, the point is, Susano'o has a weakness that was overcome by a simple sand technique.

Did you even read the rest of the post? No Kage has a means to get under like Gaara did, and he only got under it when Madara was standing on sand. Kakashi doesn't stand on the ground in Perfect Susanoo, he floats near the head, plus he can fly.

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

Did you even read the rest of the post? No Kage has a means to get under like Gaara did, and he only got under it when Madara was standing on sand. Kakashi doesn't stand on the ground in Perfect Susanoo, he floats near the head, plus he can fly.

I did. I disregarded it because it's a silly argument on your part. If Susano'o is on the ground, you seriously think they can't go underground and go in the Susano'o? I'd have to research it, but the technique seems pretty easy to do.

If he's in the air, it becomes much more a problem. However, I don't even feel like taking you seriously since you tried to go

Kaguya>hokages (without mentioning the circumstances)

Kakashi fought her (without mentioning that he was essentially useless)

That's so silly.

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RedRanger

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Tagging Kaguya is still a tremendous feat, I don't see how the Kages could defed against the same thing.

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SSJBatdan

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Tagging Kaguya is still a tremendous feat, I don't see how the Kages could defed against the same thing.

But they were all horribly weakened, so it's not even a fair comparison. Kishimoto went of his way to show the previous Hokage out of their prime, probably so this kind of thing couldn't be settled.

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TheVivas

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@ssjbatdan:

If Susano'o is on the ground, you seriously think they can't go underground and go in the Susano'o? I'd have to research it, but the technique seems pretty easy to do.

....

That's probably the silliest thing I've ever heard.

Kaguya>hokages (without mentioning the circumstances)

Kaguya is above all of the Kages, prime or not. Just because you thought I meant them in the War, that's your fault. Lol

Kakashi fought her (without mentioning that he was essentially useless)

You're right, it's not like he came up with the plan to finally defeat her, or even took off one of her arms with one of his jutsus. He definitely didn't do any of that and was completely useless. *rolls eyes*

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MudaMudaMuda

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan:

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

Even in character, he'd start off in Susanoo, so there's no way they're tagging him.

but Gaara proved you can go under it.

Gaara's not in this fight, none of the Kage have a means to get under Susanoo the way he did, Gaara only pulled Madara out in his regular Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo(Kakashi floats around the head area in his Susanoo), plus he can fly.

No kidding he's not, the point is, Susano'o has a weakness that was overcome by a simple sand technique.

Did you even read the rest of the post? No Kage has a means to get under like Gaara did, and he only got under it when Madara was standing on sand. Kakashi doesn't stand on the ground in Perfect Susanoo, he floats near the head, plus he can fly.

I can't believe that guy can't tell that the only reason Gaara's sand ever reached Madara is because he was using half a Susanoo, basically a susanoo that was open from underneath. As soon as Madara started using his legged Susanoo, Gaara could no longer do crap against him.

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SSJBatdan

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@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan:

If Susano'o is on the ground, you seriously think they can't go underground and go in the Susano'o? I'd have to research it, but the technique seems pretty easy to do.

....

That's probably the silliest thing I've ever heard.

Kaguya>hokages (without mentioning the circumstances)

Kaguya is above all of the Kages, prime or not. Just because you thought I meant them in the War, that's your fault. Lol

Kakashi fought her (without mentioning that he was essentially useless)

You're right, it's not like he came up with the plan to finally defeat her, or even took off one of her arms with one of his jutsus. He definitely didn't do any of that and was completely useless. *rolls eyes*

I'm not talking about Gaara's sand technique, I'm talking about how a sound Genin could burrow underground, how Naruto dug his way underground, and how Kakashi has the headhunter jutsu.

You have no basis of comparison to say that any of the Hokage in their prime wouldn't of put up the same fight as Kakashi, is my point. It's your fault for speculating so damn much.

Yeah, because a plan that he needed others to fulfill shows how he'd take her on himself, how?

I can't take this Naruto fan -logic anymore.

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SSJBatdan

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I can't believe that guy can't tell that the only reason Gaara's sand ever reached Madara is because he was using half a Susanoo, basically a susanoo that was open from underneath. As soon as Madara started using his legged Susanoo, Gaara could no longer do crap against him.

Fair enough. It's still assuming that Kakashi opens with it.

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TheVivas

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@ssjbatdan:

I'm not talking about Gaara's sand technique, I'm talking about how a sound Genin could burrow underground, how Naruto dug his way underground, and how Kakashi has the headhunter jutsu.

When has any Kage done that? Or better yet, why would they against a Perfect Susanoo? Jeez, it's like you don't even understand the difference between the two...

You have no basis of comparison to say that any of the Hokage in their prime wouldn't of put up the same fight as Kakashi, is my point. It's your fault for speculating so damn much.

Naruto is leagues above the other Kage and he had a hard time fighting her and couldn't beat her himself. No, the real problem is you and your Kakashi hate.

Yeah, because a plan that he needed others to fulfill shows how he'd take her on himself, how?

Now you're just reaching. First you call him useless, then when presented facts that he actually did something(you know, the opposite of useless) you continue to try to downplay him.

I'm done with this conversation.

I can't take this Naruto fan -logic anymore.

Right back at you.

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SSJBatdan

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#42  Edited By SSJBatdan

@thevivas said:

Naruto is leagues above the other Kage and he had a hard time fighting her and couldn't beat her himself. No, the real problem is you and your Kakashi hate.

LOL I don't hate Kakashi at all. He's sometimes my favorite character, sometimes it's Itachi.

What I hate is Kishimoto's writing at the end of the series and the way you use unfair comparisons.

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TheVivas

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#43  Edited By TheVivas

@thevivas said:

Naruto is leagues above the other Kage and he had a hard time fighting her and couldn't beat her himself. No, the real problem is you and your Kakashi hate.

LOL I don't hate Kakashi at all. He's sometimes my favorite character, sometimes it's Itachi.

What I hate is Kishimoto's writing at the end of the series and the way you use unfair comparisons.

I never compared the weakened Kage to Kaguya, you just assumed I did. Even in their prime, none of them would last as long as Kakashi did. That's pretty much a fact at this point.

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Noone301994

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#44  Edited By Noone301994

Team wins.

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#45  Edited By TheVivas

@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan said:

@thevivas said:

@ssjbatdan:

He might, but they are still super fast in their own right. It's a bit of an unknown.

Even in character, he'd start off in Susanoo, so there's no way they're tagging him.

but Gaara proved you can go under it.

Gaara's not in this fight, none of the Kage have a means to get under Susanoo the way he did, Gaara only pulled Madara out in his regular Susanoo, not Perfect Susanoo(Kakashi floats around the head area in his Susanoo), plus he can fly.

No kidding he's not, the point is, Susano'o has a weakness that was overcome by a simple sand technique.

Did you even read the rest of the post? No Kage has a means to get under like Gaara did, and he only got under it when Madara was standing on sand. Kakashi doesn't stand on the ground in Perfect Susanoo, he floats near the head, plus he can fly.

I can't believe that guy can't tell that the only reason Gaara's sand ever reached Madara is because he was using half a Susanoo, basically a susanoo that was open from underneath. As soon as Madara started using his legged Susanoo, Gaara could no longer do crap against him.

Some people. He's just trying to use that instance to downplay Susanoo, saying it can be easily defeated by anyone going under it, yet he doesn't realize Kakashi's Perfect Susanoo has legs, is almost as tall as a Tailed Beast, Kakashi floats near the head, and can fly...

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RedRanger

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No kidding he's not, the point is, Susano'o has a weakness that was overcome by a simple sand technique.

Lost some cred here....

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Marshall_Long

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See him beating everyone but Hashirama in round 1, same with round 2.

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andr413

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bump

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Round 1: Easily in kakashi's favor, he does have two obstacles though.I f he takes out the 4th first no one here has the slightest idea of how to stop his Kamui and figuring it out would take a toll on either kage. Once Hashirama is gone, all he has to worry about is the speed disadvantage from Tobirama and he's good.

Round 2: Full knowledge as in they know the jutsu cool time? He loses, any could solo honestly.

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D3athstroke

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#50  Edited By D3athstroke

@mudamudamuda said:

@d3athstroke said:

It blocks eyes. Proof of it not blocking Sharingan or gtfo.

Excellent argument *applause*

How about you prove that the eye that was explicitly stated to be able to see through Genjutsu wouldn't be able to see through a basic genjutsu like that or GTFO as you say yourself ?

We aren't here to discuss your assumptions.

My assumptions ? YOU are the one who claims that it wont work on Sharingan. Its YOUR claim so you SHOULD prove it. You should have gtfoed if you had no proof instead of making yourself look like a delusional, retarded fanatic and unless you come up with the proof don't waste my tame with your pathetic bullshit and don't reply my posts.