@saxz: Okay then, following that logic you have proof Toshiro would know exactly how much Gerard's height and weight would increase if he's cut an unspecified amount of times, I presume? Of course, you don't have.
unfortunately I do, The dude literally went from human sized to skyscraper sized with one damage, I think Toshiro gets the idea. Byakuya witnessed this and there's literally a scan of him informing Toshiro
And as others have pointed out Toshiro was worried about Gerard falling off even before he made his statement. You're arguing from disbelief.
Worried? Yes. Gerard falling at any size would notably damage Seireitei and probably kill a lot of people(fodder), Toshiro was also worried about buildings or anything huge for that that matter from falling. But the statement about annihilation came on the back of "If Gerard got bigger and fell"
And Kenpachi was right next to the meteor, therefore he shouldn't have even been visible if it was the size of multiple mountains.
Emm.... Nope he wasn't right next to the meteor, lol what proof do you have of that. He is still in the process of moving at hypersonic speeds at the meteor in that scan
It's several times the size of sogkyoku hill and its width spans several miles multi city block, that's all I need to get the size.
Mountainous terrain throughout a small part and I have a backup scan of mountainous terrain.
Bruh those the smallest looking "mountain" ever Lol
Is that some way of debunking something? It's funny how trees don't have a set height. We can also assume that the trees are closer than the mountains which adds to the illusion of it being larger than a mountain. Spatial awareness.
Wasn't that clear enough? It does unless you want to the sky instead. or we just don't assume anything and take it for it is.
Don't compare Sokyoku hill to an obese tree. It's not a decided height just because it's named hill. I could claim all of Ichigo's Getusugas are moon level because Getsuga Tenshou means " 月牙天衝, Moon Fang Heaven-Piercer". Name in fiction doesn't always illustrate size. Same with the term worlds. That doesn't limit itself to planetary in size. Vatican city is a country but it'ssmall. It's 109 acres.
That was the height of the largest hill in the world so no idea what u talking about. It is or they could have called it mountain instead. Which isn't the same here, The name of the attack isn't the name of a mountain or a place, also going by the logic that "mountain" Ichigo destroyed while fighting Aizen isn't a mountain, because Ichigo Getsuga Tenshou means Moon fang heaven piercer. See how flawed that is?
It states a Ten-Day walk to the other gate. They are at Jidabos gate. Each Gate is a 10-day walk. We have 4 gates in total. You can do the math 🤷🏾♂️
Huh actually i found a scan that says, all of them in total are a ten days walk.
And even if we did the math of 40 days, it would only be 6,179.88 km, and that japan's size.
True but we can use 2 methods. Averaging size by average or averaging size by smallest.
Mean average size of Japan's Districts and there you go. It's surely relative to Japan in size at the least.
This contradicts ur own logic, you claim above there that hills couldn't be average size but why here should be the average size? Lol.
No, your convenient analysis is embarrassing, Toshiro clearly speaks of his current size and way worse if Gerard gets bigger, what he tells to Kenpachi, is to stop attacking him because he will get bigger and he does not know what will happen if someone with that mass falls down.
Then he says that someone with gerard's actual size falling from where they are would destroy the sereitei
This is later confirmed by Toshiro's expression upon seeing that Gerard is about to fall, because that means the destruction of the sereitei.
Is not that hard, or are you going to keep in denial as always?
still no scan. show me the "way worse" statement, no? Honestly.
Nope follow the conversation,.look at my post @ 169. Kenpachi argued "if that happens (that is Gerard getting bigger and falling) he would just slice him up in the air", then Toshiro continues his warning, (on the same topic, not a different one regarding Gerrard's current size) if a guy of his mass, falls..... ( this mass is the theoretical mass of Gerard increasing exponentially) like he and Kenpachi has be talking about in the first place, there's nothing that suggest he suddenly changed the conversation to current Gerard, Again you're pretending the first part of that conversation don't exist and taking a single phrase out of context.
Like I said using this argument is faulty, if I get Seireitei's size to large country-continental, due to the K.E of the meteor , I doubt anyone would take it as definite proof. So why is this vague thing an argument
Bruh those the smallest looking "mountain" ever Lol
🤦🏾♂️
This contradicts ur own logic, you claim above there that hills couldn't be average size but why here should be the average size? Lol.
I'm confused. What are you talking about? Where did averaging hills come from lol? What hills are we speaking of? Sokyoku hill? It's not hill-sized.
Huh actually i found a scan that says, all of them in total are a ten days walk.
You found some random fan-made scan huh. Almost every scan says it's a 10-day walk per gate. 10-days to the next and etc. Where did you get that scan? Assuming the route was around the outer limits of the sereitei.
Wasn't that clear enough? It does unless you want to the sky instead. or we just don't assume anything and take it for it is.
I'm Confused again.
That was the height of the largest hill in the world so no idea what u talking about. It is or they could have called it mountain instead. Which isn't the same here, The name of the attack isn't the name of a mountain or a place, also going by the logic that "mountain" Ichigo destroyed while fighting Aizen isn't a mountain, because Ichigo Getsuga Tenshou means Moon fang heaven piercer. See how flawed that is?
You're comparing an actual hill to a figuratively named hill. So Ichigo used a Getsuga Tenshou to destroy the mountain when he just swung his sword and the mountain went gone. It's so clear that Sokyoku hill is larger than your day-to-day mountain. Vatican city is a country but it's named City, is it not? Same flawed logic that name figuratively dictates size. I'm still confused.
unfortunately I do, The dude literally went from human sized to skyscraper sized with one damage, I think Toshiro gets the idea. Byakuya witnessed this and there's literally a scan of him informing Toshiro
Byakuya literally destroyed Gerard's whole body, only his helmet was intact, unlike him, Kenpachi could only cut him into pieces which would do less damage and increase his body mass far less. As seen, Gerard's size wasn't increasing considerably from Kenpachi's slashes, instead, his power growth was the important part.
Gallery
Worried? Yes. Gerard falling at any size would notably damage Seireitei and probably kill a lot of people(fodder), Toshiro was also worried about buildings or anything huge for that that matter from falling. But the statement about annihilation came on the back of "If Gerard got bigger and fell"
No, no. Toshiro being worried about Gerard being kicked off confirms that his statement was directed about his current size. Here's another example:
A city block is about to fall on Seireitei and Hitsugaya is very worried. And finally:
Gallery
"Don't throw that huge thing. I can't have it fall on Seireitei. I told you that" Toshiro refers to the statement about the annihilation of Seireitei and points out Gerard's shield would do the same amount of damage. It's a clear-cut statement, but I don't expect you to accept it since denial seems to be overflowing from you. This would likely be my last response to you because it'd be pointless to continue.
Emm.... Nope he wasn't right next to the meteor, lol what proof do you have of that. He is still in the process of moving at hypersonic speeds at the meteor in that scan
Here you go:
Kenpachi slashes the meteor in the next instance clearly meaning he's right next to it.
It's several times the size of sogkyoku hill and its width spans several miles multi city block, that's all I need to get the size.
Show me a single depiction of the meteor being compared to the sogyoku hill.
Mountains is from a novel statement(Canon material) but there were somewhat a scan of mountains in Seireitei in the manga(canon material) but because Kubo is lazy with backgrounds, you can make the argument its outside Seireitei.
Forest, like the large forest were youruichi and soifon had their first fight.?? It's kinda popular. You might miss this because it's usually drawn as a black smudge near Sogyouku hill,if at all, yep lazy background drawing. I don't blame you for missing it.
Sea is actually from Royal Palace, equivalent with Seireitei. And I said small sea.
The problem isn't that, there is no mountain or lake or stuff like, the problem is, they are small.
Yeah and don't you forget it.
Of course.
I showed someone a Scan above check it out. But just in case you're going to judge everything from visual acuity, I respect your standard. And I hope you keep it up, even when someone decides to scale Onigashiima size off thousand sunny.
There is no scan. Yea will unless the author specify a size or something like that. Yea that as already been done to scale Onigashima's lake:
40 days walking statement exist. I believe he wouldn't give that for no reason. There's Toshiro releasing a 7.3 miles attack, and not even bothering the next division, there are 13 divisions in Seireitei. There's a direct 200 spirit miles in the movie fade to black, it's not canon, but Kubo had a hand in its preparation so I think something like Seireitei's size wouldn't escape him and like it or not the anime team are probably more closer to Kubo than us, so when in doubt I'll think I'll follow their statement of size over fanboys ramblings.
In other, it says 10 days and even if it was 40 days of walking it would still be below country size. So I do i. 87.3 miles ain't country size still. Sure, but 200 miles still ain't country size.
Why is the 10 days statement being brought up? It's vague as fuck. We have absolutely no idea what route Yoruichi had in mind when she made that statement and here's for comparison how much impact the route you take has on the time you'd arrive from point A to point B:
Everything that Mevbi said, except the part of the meteorite, and your thing is to be denial, so I leave it here, because clearly...you are not going to change your mind even when you are tremendously wrong.
I'm confused. What are you talking about? Where did averaging hills come from lol? What hills are we speaking of? Sokyoku hill? It's not hill-sized.
So you claim Sokyoku hill isn't hill-sized because attack like Gentsuga tenshou (ik i missed the name up) isn't moon lvl but has the word moon in there.
But then you are trying to claim we can the average to identify the districts in seireitei, can't see the problem mate?
You saying we can't use the average for x but we can use the average for Y makes no sense.
You found some random fan-made scan huh. Almost every scan says it's a 10-day walk per gate. 10-days to the next and etc. Where did you get that scan? Assuming the route was around the outer limits of the sereitei.
No evidence of that. I don't know where "every scan" comes from but this one says it isn't unless u can prove it wrong for me it isn't.
and why do I need to show where I got the scan?
I'm Confused again.
Yep be more confuse.
You're comparing an actual hill to a figuratively named hill. So Ichigo used a Getsuga Tenshou to destroy the mountain when he just swung his sword and the mountain went gone. It's so clear that Sokyoku hill is larger than your day-to-day mountain. Vatican city is a country but it's named City, is it not? Same flawed logic that name figuratively dictates size. I'm still confused.
So it now a figurative name hill so I guess those districts are also figuratively named districts. No problem then I believe everything named in bleach from city, mountain to anything are figurative.
So you claim Sokyoku hill isn't hill-sized because attack like Gentsuga tenshou (ik i missed the name up) isn't moon lvl but has the word moon in there.
But then you are trying to claim we can the average to identify the districts in seireitei, can't see the problem mate?
You saying we can't use the average for x but we can use the average for Y makes no sense.
By using the objection of words, Sokyoku hill is automatically Hill-Sized even though there's so damn much contradictory evidence and Getsuga Tenshou pierces heaven "Moon-Fang Piercer of the Heavens" Quote me on saying we can't use Average for X but we can use an Average for Y. You brought up averaging hills out of no-where because Sokyoku hill has the word hill in it. You see how goofy that is, correct? When you don't have a definite size for something, you'd average out the terms, like I did.
No evidence of that. I don't know where "every scan" comes from but this one says it isn't unless u can prove it wrong for me it isn't.
and why do I need to show where I got the scan?
Show what website the scan is from. Give me the source.
You got a random scan that fit your narrative despite the original scan saying something else. It's goofy.
So it now a figurative name hill so I guess those districts are also figuratively named districts. No problem then I believe everything named in bleach from city, mountain to anything are figurative.
Let see how that goes.
You're purposely being as dense as osmium. By using the logic of name, everything is relative to the name with contradictory evidence. Vatican City is a Country sized so it would be the average country size. Getsuga Tenshou is Heaven piercer so Ichigo pierces heaven. Just as the term world doesn't dictate size, figuratively naming something hill doesn't dictate size. Even though Sokyoku hill contradicts itself, you continue. Mountain has a general size, City has a general population which somewhat correlates to size, etc.
By using the objection of words, Sokyoku hill is automatically Hill-Sized even though there's so damn much contradictory evidence and Getsuga Tenshou pierces heaven "Moon-Fang Piercer of the Heavens" Quote me on saying we can't use Average for X but we can use an Average for Y. You brought up averaging hills out of no-where because Sokyoku hill has the word hill in it. You see how goofy that is, correct? When you don't have a definite size for something, you'd average out the terms, like I did.
Exactly we use the size of an average hill, you said it Lol.
Unless you have a define size, I'll use the size of an average hill.
Show what website the scan is from. Give me the source.
You got a random scan that fit your narrative despite the original scan saying something else. It's goofy.
Why? then show yours.
I would say the same to urs, you found a random scan that fit your narrative despite me posting an original scan that say something else.
You're purposely being as dense as osmium. By using the logic of name, everything is relative to the name with contradictory evidence. Vatican City is a Country sized so it would be the average country size. Getsuga Tenshou is Heaven piercer so Ichigo pierces heaven. Just as the term world doesn't dictate size, figuratively naming something hill doesn't dictate size. Even though Sokyoku hill contradicts itself, you continue. Mountain has a general size, City has a general population which somewhat correlates to size, etc.
If there is contradictory evidence then fine but if there isn't I'll use average. if want to use the smallest country in the world as an average then sure be my guest. Which going by ur logic contradicts it. Yea the term does unless you can prove it wrong, if something is called a mountain I'll use a mountain to define unless proven wrong. Sokyoku hill is a hill and nothing says otherwise.
Byakuya literally destroyed Gerard's whole body, only his helmet was intact, unlike him, Kenpachi could only cut him into pieces which would do less damage and increase his body mass far less. As seen, Gerard's size wasn't increasing considerably from Kenpachi's slashes, instead, his power growth was the important part.
To Toshiro, Gerard was unexpectedly able to overpower Kenpachi, if Gerard didn't defend properly there's a good chance he got split in the middle, and end up increasing drastically, like he did against the bankai.
No, no. Toshiro being worried about Gerard being kicked off confirms that his statement was directed about his current size. Here's another example:
The city block example, yes I know about that. What's more is that city block was in pieces, so. It would likely hit the ground a building or two at a time and it is not as threatening as Gerard , but Toshiro was still alarmed and on another note there's a chance that without Toshiro's band aid the whole city might have taken a dive but whatever.....
"Don't throw that huge thing. I can't have it fall on Seireitei. I told you that" Toshiro refers to the statement about the annihilation of Seireitei and points out Gerard's shield would do the same amount of damage. It's a clear-cut statement, but I don't expect you to accept it since denial seems to be overflowing from you. This would likely be my last response to you because it'd be pointless to continue.
Ignoring the hostility in this section. The "you" He is talking to Gerard right? So. How does that relate to what he told kenpachi directly?. Isn't it more closely related to what he said more recently in Gerard's presence when he stopped the city block Gerard destroyed from collapsing?. Lol.
Yeah you should just stay put with the argument if this vague presentations all you've got.
Kenpachi slashes the meteor in the next instance clearly meaning he's right next to it.
There this proves my point about perspective, now kenpachi is much smaller and looks like an ant to just a quarter of the meteor. And. I. Can still argue he is not right next to it, considering Kenpachi can cut things without actually touching them. Can't post scans right now.
There's no need to compare Kenpachi size with the meteor, when the meteor has being shown in relation to seireitei. And it's as big as a third of the barrier and dwarfs the space that usually contains sogyokou hill.
Show me a single depiction of the meteor being compared to the sogyoku hill.
I Can't,.obviously. Seireitei got replaced with wanderiech at that point ,but it's definitely bigger than the large castle at the center of Wanderich , which fit perfectly where sogyokou hill was, also you can clearly tell from the barrier's size in relation with the meteor.
Speaking of meteor's how about using the K.E of the meteor to get Seireitei's size like you did with Gerard and all, since you're so honest and clearly not biased.
The problem isn't that, there is no mountain or lake or stuff like, the problem is, they are small.
Well they are big enough to be implied as those things but whatever, my point is that you can barely see them in the visual representations ,that you're regarding as consistent and author's intent.
There is no scan. Yea will unless the author specify a size or something like that. Yea that as already been done to scale Onigashima's lake:
In reply to yray there is. Good and that takes precedence over inconsistent scans or visual acuity right?. So any reason why you aren't giving Seireitei the same courtesy
n other, it says 10 days and even if it was 40 days of walking it would still be below country size. So I do i. 87.3 miles ain't country size still. Sure, but 200 miles still ain't country size.
In the scan it does say 10 days, but that's from one gate to the next gate, there are 4 gates in total equidistance from each other. 87.3 miles isn't country level but that goes beyond town some people insinuate and it already puts it above some visual depictions. 200 spirit miles, not miles. If I remember correctly 3 spirit miles = 7.3 miles( don't quote me on that, I'll confirm to sure but I am pretty sure.
Everything that Mevbi said, except the part of the meteorite, and your thing is to be denial, so I leave it here, because clearly...you are not going to change your mind even when you are tremendously wrong.
sure Mr FTL...... Sorry, Mr pre-TSzoro dodged a dozen LS projectiles and it doesn't equal FTL. It's not ironic at all.
Well they are big enough to be implied as those things but whatever, my point is that you can barely see them in the visual representations ,that you're regarding as consistent and author's intent.
Now that I think about I changed my mind, the city could actually be around 100km/62 miles
In reply to yray there is. Good and that takes precedence over inconsistent scans or visual acuity right?. So any reason why you aren't giving Seireitei the same courtesy
Cool. Of course any day. No real reason, I guess cuz I just didn't want to, but at this point I think it around 100km/62 miles as stated above.
In the scan it does say 10 days, but that's from one gate to the next gate, there are 4 gates in total equidistance from each other.
In what I posted it said all of them combine will take 10 days.
87.3 miles isn't country level but that goes beyond town some people insinuate and it already puts it above some visual depictions. 200 spirit miles, not miles. If I remember correctly 3 spirit miles = 7.3 miles( don't quote me on that, I'll confirm to sure but I am pretty sure.
I didn't say it was town, I had it at city something similar to Manhattan which is around 22 miles. Yea I don't know what spirit miles even is.
Have to say the arguments against country sized Seireitei are fairly convincing
@saxz Saying Gerard's fall would only wipe the infrastructure of Seireitei doesn't really work, one can make the same argument for Gremmy's meteor itself in which case it'd be way below country lvl even if the Seireitei is a country.,
@yamatama:Most of those results are high end ones which make big assumptions about timeframe and how far the dispersal spread. It's better to take the low end interpretation which is large island lvl as the Naruto forums thread discusses too. Country lvl is iffy given the Sins' final combined attack FC'd multiple times was only hyped to destroy Britain.
Neither were high-ends and the assumptions are pretty reasonable. The NF ended up taking the low-end that is country lvl still.
Which can easily be dust cloud from pulverization. Can I see the country lvl calc for Danafor btw? Even with vaporization it's hard to believe something of that size gives country lvl yields. I found two on VSBW and Anime Vice (here and here) which puts it at Gigatons (island lvl) range.
I am also not sure how Ban's physicals scale above these. Both these feats are magic based and NNT differentiates between magic and physicals.
Unless you think ban's physicals can't match up to Mael casually flexing...he should scale.
Ban only "kept up" with the DK Mel when he was also weakened by the internal conflict with Mel, in any case every Sin "kept up" with the DK, King and Diane did while flirting, it means little.
Well this is just false. Every Sin including Mael all got casually slapped away by DK Mel. Only one who could keep up and trade blows was Ban, and this is before Mel was shown to intervene. Damn, he even tanked multiple Sage' Sighs when even Mael thought one was impossible to stop. Yea, when every other Sin was also helping...
They have the same exact effect, sniping the target's organ out remotely, only one is with DF and the other through magic. Conversely I'd also argue Law's Shambles not working on NNT god tiers.
Same result, doesn't mean they work the same to get to said result.
It'd be larger in all honesty. pre purgatory Ban and Estarossa are like mountain lvl and island lvl respectively I imagine, Narutoforums which puts Mael's feat at 4.19 Teratons in the thread you showed puts WB's quake punches at 1.17 petatons here , and the Onigashima lift also gives small country lvl yields with reasonable timeframe estimates like 5 secs as calc'd here (post 208). So the difference is an order of magnitude higher.
Pre-purgatory Ban wasn't mountain level at best you can argue city level even then that's iffy since he was getting one shot by Demon Hendy casually (what made him a threat was his hax, pre-purgatory). Major problems with that WB calc, first assumed distance of some random island, used an off-scale map to pixel scale distance of islands and assumed speed of marine boats. As for the Onigashima calc, that doesn't even scale to kaido's offensive or defensive capabilities.
WB creating the tsunamis is also put at country lvl by VSBW, and the site horrendously lowballs the series (they put Roger at large mountain lmfao). And to top it all these are extremely casual feats (in the case of the Onigashima lift) or done by a character in a nerfed state (as with old WB or Kaido doing his in base) which the NNT feats aren't. So nobody in NNT can really match Kaido in power at all, even if you used calcs.
Mael's feat is literally him casually flexing his magic and Mel's feat was done by a much weaker Mel. Nothing really stops Ban from draining Kaido and sniping his heart out from a distance.
Yes the argument(not the Gerard rubbish) are fairly convincing, never said it wasn't, arguing Seireitei from only a visual point of view was always convincing, there was no time where it wasn't.
Which is what I mentioned first in this thread. That due to the headache of the Las noches and Seireitei size arguments, I Personally scale bleach without the need of those sizes and arrive almost at the same level of those who use those sizes anyway.
The statement about annihilation of Seireitei was specifically referenced if Gerard got bigger, And I agreed that yes if Gerard indeed got bigger he could Annihilate Seireitei, but nothing was said about his current size achieving the same feat.
Which brings me to my second point, you misunderstood. I said it would be largely dishonest if Gerard 150m height mass is somehow vaguely used to get Seireitei size and then we would conveniently ignore using the meteor impact to get the size, Why? Because it yielded higher results. So we should accept the low end as a good argument and dismiss the high end as vague nonsense, when they are literally the same argument.
I mean think about it, if anyone got Seireitei size to large country-continental due to the meteor K.E calc would it be accepted as definite proof or dismissed as vague claim?
EDIT : and no just as Gerard falling K. E was calced at town-city level or whatever, the mass/K.E of that meteor is calced at country+ so no you can't argue it destroys only the infrastructure. But yeah I am pretty sure Gerard's fall at that size would crater a massive area, "town sized" maybe but the remnants shockwave should still destroy a lot of infrastructure unlike the meteor which would just crater the whole area on impact alone.
That's not rhetorical by the way, you should answer that, cuz that's exactly what's going on here with the whole Gerard shenanigans.
1) Most of them assume a cloud is fully water, which inflates the mass massively, The guy in the first comment here accounts for that and the feat is large island lvl, the time frames and distance of dispersal are not at all clear cut either but meh.
2) Flames are a part of any explosions which isn't enough proof of vaporization. TNT explosions cause flames and smoke but they don't vaporize rock.
3) Maybe, maybe not, it's up to you to prove they scale.
5) If it's the same result then the resistances to it should stay the same regardless of how it is done. This is such a stupid argument, by this logic any hax from any verse will always be effective outside of it because every verse has different power systems so no other resistance feats matter.
6) That map is meant to be an accurate representation of that region in the OP world, and we know there aren't any other islands close in that Sabaody-Marine HQ, Impel Down, EL triangle so I don't see the problem. Speed of Marine boats being assumed equal to modern battleships is fine if not a low end since the OP world is clearly far more technologically advanced compared to our own despite the old timey aesthetic.
Yes it would scale to the other elemental attacks of his DF since it's just another application of his elemental DF abilities. He should be able to put the same energy in his other elemental DF attacks. I don't see how you can think what Mael did somehow scales to his offense but not this.
7) Mael was fighting the Sinner there so even though it might have been casual I don't think that level of power is far if at all from his max. Kaido scales above old Whitebeard from MF (who is explicitly past his prime and dying) since even Akainu matches his quake punches and Kaido > Akainu, and should logically scale to Primebeard too since they were active Yonkos in the same period and we know even Roger was afraid of a fight with Linlin, who is Kaido's peer. And a full power AM Mel is crazy strong lol, probably only surpassed by EoS True Form Mel, Ban himself mentions to the DK that Mel is probably even stronger than the DK himself, and he would intimately know exactly how powerful both are. There's no reason to assume the full, bloodlusted power of a berserk AM Mel is below Ban's physical strikes, especially when a nerfed DK had no real trouble with him at all.
Also any reason Ban just doesn't get blitzed? Nobody in NNT can react to a rel+ character like even base Kaido. At the end of the day Ban questionably scales to small country lvl feats at best while Kaido scales above country lvl feats with a very casual small country lvl feat of his own plus vastly superior speed.
Anyway we can agree to disagree here as this is becoming too much of a calc dick measuring contest.
1) Most of them assume a cloud is fully water, which inflates the mass massively, The guy in the first comment here accounts for that and the feat is large island lvl, the time frames and distance of dispersal are not at all clear cut either but meh.
Incredibly safe assumption considering the type of clouds that the spell summoned and the clouds depicted. You do realize that method uses the real world as a basis and after correcting it goes by back to small country level?
2) Flames are a part of any explosions which isn't enough proof of vaporization. TNT explosions cause flames and smoke but they don't vaporize rock.
TNT explosions don't leave giant fumes of fire(hellfire in this case) after going off. Considering the cleanness of the crater, it's clear cut vaporization.
3) Maybe, maybe not, it's up to you to prove they scale.
I'll pretend you didn't just suggest Ban doesn't scale to flexing Mael....when one can actually contend with the DK and the other got bitched slapped.
Easily stomping Ban? He just got him by surprised and just after Ban is off trading blows while getting bombed by attacks, Mael considered impossible to stop.
5) If it's the same result then the resistances to it should stay the same regardless of how it is done. This is such a stupid argument, by this logic any hax from any verse will always be effective outside of it because every verse has different power systems so no other resistance feats matter.
No just no. That's like saying, punching and shooting are the same because they end up with the same result. Also no one is saying that underlined part? I don't think you understand that both, abilities reach the same results, but through very different means...thus requiring different counters to them.
6) That map is meant to be an accurate representation of that region in the OP world, and we know there aren't any other islands close in that Sabaody-Marine HQ, Impel Down, EL triangle so I don't see the problem. Speed of Marine boats being assumed equal to modern battleships is fine if not a low end since the OP world is clearly far more technologically advanced compared to our own despite the old timey aesthetic.
Except that map isn't accurate in the sense we can't get an exact or even a safe assumption of distance from it. Considering sale boats are still used in OP...doubt.
Yes it would scale to the other elemental attacks of his DF since it's just another application of his elemental DF abilities. He should be able to put the same energy in his other elemental DF attacks. I don't see how you can think what Mael did somehow scales to his offense but not this.
Except it's a different ability and kaido never used it offensively.
7) Mael was fighting the Sinner there so even though it might have been casual I don't think that level of power is far if at all from his max. Kaido scales above old Whitebeard from MF (who is explicitly past his prime and dying) since even Akainu matches his quake punches and Kaido > Akainu, and should logically scale to Primebeard too since they were active Yonkos in the same period and we know even Roger was afraid of a fight with Linlin, who is Kaido's peer. And a full power AM Mel is crazy strong lol, probably only surpassed by EoS True Form Mel, Ban himself mentions to the DK that Mel is probably even stronger than the DK himself, and he would intimately know exactly how powerful both are. There's no reason to assume the full, bloodlusted power of a berserk AM Mel is below Ban's physical strikes, especially when a nerfed DK had no real trouble with him at all.
You seriously think mael casually activating his magic is not far from his max? Well prove it. Also Ban is well above Mael. Of course Ban is gonna back up his friend, and talk shit. No actually believes him from what's depicted constantly that being FP DK > Mel.
Also any reason Ban just doesn't get blitzed? Nobody in NNT can react to a rel+ character like even base Kaido. At the end of the day Ban questionably scales to small country lvl feats at best while Kaido scales above country lvl feats with a very casual small country lvl feat of his own plus vastly superior speed.
Because Kaido isn't rel+ and Ban scales above both base mel and weakened DK who practically statued lightning. Questionably? If that means actually contending with the DK whos >>> Mael sure he scales questionably.
Anyway we can agree to disagree here as this is becoming too much of a calc dick measuring contest.
@the_lost_cleric: So other than himself are his lasers also LS? Bcuz I mean let's look at it....supposedly LS lasers' light hit WB before said lasers hit, never depicted as fast as Kizaru going LS from what I read???
@the_lost_cleric: So other than himself are his lasers also LS? Bcuz I mean let's look at it....supposedly LS lasers' light hit WB before said lasers hit, never depicted as fast as Kizaru going LS from what I read???
He can fire them while using his ability, but that doesn't mean he's at max speed when firing them, so who knows... I'm gonna just assume they are as fast as him.
Incredibly safe assumption considering the type of clouds that the spell summoned and the clouds depicted. You do realize that method uses the real world as a basis and after correcting it goes by back to small country level?
I will pretend you didn't say assuming clouds are 100% water is an "incredibly safe assumption", you realize they won't even float if that's the case right, as water is >>> air in terms of density. Not sure what the 2nd line means, why wouldn't you use real world as a basis since NNT is literally based in real world Britain.
TNT explosions don't leave giant fumes of fire(hellfire in this case) after going off. Considering the cleanness of the crater, it's clear cut vaporization.
That shot is taken just after the destruction happened, and what do you mean you don't have giant fumes of fire after any standard TNT explosion?
Crater being clean is just as possible with simple pulverization. Vaporization is a massive inflation of a feat you can't just assume that's the case without it being 100% clear cut and not based on circumstantial evidence. For example a verse like Saint Seiya makes it clear that every attack atomizes the target.
I'll pretend you didn't just suggest Ban doesn't scale to flexing Mael....when one can actually contend with the DK and the other got bitched slapped.
As I showed, Ban could only contend with the DK when the latter was heavily restrained fighting Mel and the other Sins in the mindscape, and he was still losing (more on this in a moment). A full power DK is on a different level to any Sin besides EoS Mel and UTO, that's obvious if you read the manga and aren't just debating superficially.
Easily stomping Ban? He just got him by surprised and just after Ban is off trading blows while getting bombed by attacks, Mael considered impossible to stop.
Please go reread the first few chapters of the DK Mel fight, you aren't addressing the nuances of the fight and just superficially repeating "Ban contended with the DK". I already showed you how Mel started the internal conflict thing with the DK almost immediately, something acknowledged by Merlin as weakening him, and Ban was surprised? Lol he was looking straight at the DK and still got overpowered:
Gallery
If anything the DK overpowered him while simultaneously destroying Mel in the mind scape.
And of course Ban could tank a Sighing Sage from a DK that was further weakened by constantly fighting all the other Sins in the mind scape at the same time.
No just no. That's like saying, punching and shooting are the same because they end up with the same result. Also no one is saying that underlined part? I don't think you understand that both, abilities reach the same results, but through very different means...thus requiring different counters to them.
Yet your last sentence is a repeat of the underlined part. Let's make it easy, Gowther has TP based attacks, which are powered by magic, right? Would that mean X-Men telepaths from Marvel who have their power from a mutation suddenly hasn't got resistance to his abilities?
Except that map isn't accurate in the sense we can't get an exact or even a safe assumption of distance from it. Considering sale boats are still used in OP...doubt.
Why not? We can easily see from the map that the distance from the Navy HQ to any other island not named Impel Down, Sabaody or EL is at least twice or more the distance between any 2 of these islands.
Which is just to fit the aesthetic? OP battleships also use visually 17th century canons which have dc feats on par or better than most modern battleships, Dials that can make a catapult shoot faster than most modern fire arms, and that's not even getting into stuff like near perfect AI (Pacifistas), weather controlling devices, tech that can take a whole ship to a 10 km sea depth, etc. The OP verse tech >>> real world.
Except it's a different ability and kaido never used it offensively.
And when was whatever Mael used to disperse the clouds used offensively? It's his DF power, he can put it into his other DF offensive attacks, just like that was Mael's magic which we assume he can put into his other offensive attacks.
You seriously think mael casually activating his magic is not far from his max? Well prove it. Also Ban is well above Mael. Of course Ban is gonna back up his friend, and talk shit. No actually believes him from what's depicted constantly that being FP DK > Mel.
I can't prove a negative, here I will reframe it, "You seriously think Mael fighting a threat like the Sinner won't be operating at or close to his max?" Prove it.
Yeah that's your head canon, and no? EoS Mel and Ultimate TO are kinda the only Sins who can match the DK 1v1, this was shown in the last DK fight.
@the_lost_cleric: So other than himself are his lasers also LS? Bcuz I mean let's look at it....supposedly LS lasers' light hit WB before said lasers hit, never depicted as fast as Kizaru going LS from what I read???
@ssjbatdan: Yeah that's confirmed in the Databooks and also makes logical sense....,I mean the guy is a light man and his attacks are him just shooting light, it makes sense that everything about the guy is going to be LS.
I will pretend you didn't say assuming clouds are 100% water is an "incredibly safe assumption", you realize they won't even float if that's the case right, as water is >>> air in terms of density. Not sure what the 2nd line means, why wouldn't you use real world as a basis since NNT is literally based in real world Britain.
Where did you get that from? Mind pointing at the calc and where exactly? "Based" not exactly the same and it's better using the in-verse map. Where we also have exact locations.
That shot is taken just after the destruction happened, and what do you mean you don't have giant fumes of fire after any standard TNT explosion?
Crater being clean is just as possible with simple pulverization. Vaporization is a massive inflation of a feat you can't just assume that's the case without it being 100% clear cut and not based on circumstantial evidence. For example a verse like Saint Seiya makes it clear that every attack atomizes the target.
As I showed, Ban could only contend with the DK when the latter was heavily restrained fighting Mel and the other Sins in the mindscape, and he was still losing (more on this in a moment). A full power DK is on a different level to any Sin besides EoS Mel and UTO, that's obvious if you read the manga and aren't just debating superficially.
Please go reread the first few chapters of the DK Mel fight, you aren't addressing the nuances of the fight and just superficially repeating "Ban contended with the DK". I already showed you how Mel started the internal conflict thing with the DK almost immediately, something acknowledged by Merlin as weakening him, and Ban was surprised? Lol he was looking straight at the DK and still got overpowered:
Gallery
If anything the DK overpowered him while simultaneously destroying Mel in the mind scape.
And of course Ban could tank a Sighing Sage from a DK that was further weakened by constantly fighting all the other Sins in the mind scape at the same time.
None of this really changes any of my points or counters them. Ban is still the only one who could contend with the DK after everyone else got slapped. Mael still considered the Sighing Sage impossible to stop. So Ban >>> Mael still doesn't change. Also in those scans, we legit see Ban get surprised and grabbed from behind.
Yet your last sentence is a repeat of the underlined part. Let's make it easy, Gowther has TP based attacks, which are powered by magic, right? Would that mean X-Men telepaths from Marvel who have their power from a mutation suddenly hasn't got resistance to his abilities?
Aren't you arguing Kaido can resist Ban's snatch because he resisted Law's DF? Both abilities are different if Haki can counter Law's DF space manip, how does that mean it can counter Ban's snatch which isn't space manip? Wasn't that the original argument ?
Why not? We can easily see from the map that the distance from the Navy HQ to any other island not named Impel Down, Sabaody or EL is at least twice or more the distance between any 2 of these islands.
Because the map isn't to scale like I said before.
Which is just to fit the aesthetic? OP battleships also use visually 17th century canons which have dc feats on par or better than most modern battleships, Dials that can make a catapult shoot faster than most modern fire arms, and that's not even getting into stuff like near perfect AI (Pacifistas), weather controlling devices, tech that can take a whole ship to a 10 km sea depth, etc. The OP verse tech >>> real world.
And they still use flintlock pistols. Not everything in the OP world is advanced and most certainly not every Marine boat is the same.
And when was whatever Mael used to disperse the clouds used offensively? It's his DF power, he can put it into his other DF offensive attacks, just like that was Mael's magic which we assume he can put into his other offensive attacks.
I'll concede to this point. I was under the impression, Kaido's ability to lift with those flames were of a different kind to his Boro Breath.
I can't prove a negative, here I will reframe it, "You seriously think Mael fighting a threat like the Sinner won't be operating at or close to his max?" Prove it.
Except he wasn't fighting the Sinner when dispersing the clouds nor did he do anything to suggest he was going max output when dispersing the clouds.
Yeah that's your head canon, and no? EoS Mel and Ultimate TO are kinda the only Sins who can match the DK 1v1, this was shown in the last DK fight.
What's my head canon ? Ban > Mael? Something we can tell from their feats/statements or DK > Mel something we can tell from feats/statements.
Log in to comment