Kaido vs Byakuya, Ban and Mercphobia

@faradaysloth: I did in fact read and finish bleach so ik everything about the series

Byakuya should be able to solo, Kaido vs Dragon Gods can go either way and Ban is a legit non factor to every other character here

Ban isn't stronger, not even close actually and is way slower, Law can do that too but it doesn't work on Kaido so Snatch gets no sold

@the_lost_cleric: How is Ban not stronger? Ban was going toe to toe with the Demon King after purgatory. not to mention since hi s physical capacity grew so much he can now steal even more physical strength than before.

@jc9865: Yeah Kaido is stronger than that, Kaido is at least country while Ban in terms of physicals is in the island tier

Would like to remind everyone that Hybrid Form Kaido doesn't even have feats yet

We don't even know what he looks like. lol

Ban is fodder here.

Merc can pull a win if kaido stands there and watch someone as slow as him gather enough water to drown him when he can just blitz and pummel merc.

Byakuya might be the only one on the list with the power to meaningfully damage kaido but he's horrendously slower and kaido has enough Ap to also damage him because both scale above country lvl so I'm sure if kaido makes good use of his speed advantage he should pull a mid difficulty win.

Classic exauce when Kaido isn't on Mercphobia's level.

Speculation(To you, it is) or not, Mercuphobia drowning the guy is useless. Even if it did weaken/Immobilized him(Which is doubt as it’s the fish-fish fruit) He can still get out of it as drowning isn’t a problem.

That's a terrible picture of Hybrid Kaido btw. I hope the actual design doesn't suck.

Byakuya one shots, he is comparable to Adult Toshiro and destroyed Volstnadig Gerard body which is 5-10x stronger than Shikai Kenpachi.

Dragon God is also scaling to Acnologia and others like ALdoron who > One piece verse

Ban at this point should also be as strong if not stronger than Kaido

Team wins in a mismatch.

Byakuya= At least Large Country

Dragon God = Country Level

Kaido = at best ISland tier.

@war_monger: Mercuphobia drowning Kaido is useless due to his DF(Fish-Fish fruit)

@floridaman29 said:

Classic exauce when Kaido isn't on Mercphobia's level.

My discussion wasn't even against Merc but Byakuya.

but here we talking about a guy who was casually stepping on WB quakes (pre-time skip) saying he doesn't have the manpower to take down Kaido, yea Kaido claps him.

Merc being underestimated as usual. He's on par with Aldo and he isn't limited to drowning. Ban can steal Kaido's heart and can half his strength, and Idk about the Bleach dude but he probably has some good hax. Kaido isn't afraid of BM so I don't know why her DF ability got brought up as a way to say he resisted soul manip since Bleach characters don't need you to be scared in order to attack your soul.

How could he get out of it?????
Once again, speculation. having a fish DF may give you gills, but it doesn’t mean you can all of a sudden override DF weakness. That’s 100% headcanon.

Byakuya would have to move his hand to control senbonzakura and his hands will be pinned as well.

And scaling? To Kenpachi? Cause byakuya’s not a physical type of reaper, like he is. I’ll admit, his Bankai is comparable to adult toshiro as they damaged Gerard together.

But Byakuya was blocking attacks for him, Toshiro, and Kenpachi that Bankai Kenpachi couldn't handle.

Blocking isn't the same as causing damage and isn't even consistent. We see multiple instances of God Size Gerard casually lolnoping attacks from Byakuya's Bankai.

Same form which was getting stomped by Bankai Kenpachi later. Byakuya needed his strongest attack with preparation to smash a frozen Geard to pieces and that's the only thing that scales to Kenpachi's Shikai, nothing more.

@sagathelegend: It still says something that his senbonzakura wasn't getting negged completely. We also don't know if he wasn't just being careful with using his strongest attack...to make sure.

Point is, I think he surpasses Kenpachi's Shikai in certain ways.

@comicvinepoozer1:

What do you mean, how??? Apparently, he’s tried this attempt and look at him now, meaning he got out of the water. That’s more than enough to say this is indeed not a speculation.

It probably surpasses it more in the defensive area but I don't think much in the offensive area as Gerard didn't even bother defending against it using his shield or sword and Byakuya never really managed to case actual damage to Gerard using Shikai or his Bankai's normal state.

Senkei's Ultimate Technique and likely Hakuteiken are certainly Vollstanding Gerard level thought for sure.

@gilateen: Do we know that he actually landed in the water, though?

I have to assume he tried drowning himself unless it was before he got his DF.

1. When did it say that he tried to drown himself

2. When did it say he got out of the water himself

3. While we are at it, when have Zoan DF users been able to use their DF abilities while in water. Because I’m pretty sure the only time we’ve seen a Zoan fall into water while using their ability is chopper in monster point and he Immediately reverted back to normal

1. Why does he have the fish fruit then?

2. Why does he have the fish fruit then?

3. Why are we comparing zones? Not all the same.

4. If the guy wants to die, then why hasn’t he thought of or done drowning yet then? Well?

@the_lost_cleric: What ha Kaido done that puts him at country level? And sins honestly were around Island level around high commandments.

@war_monger: How is Ban fodder here?

@jc9865: Lifting Onigashima at the speeds he did would give country lv yields and that was a really casual feat. He should logically scale to Marineford WB's quake punches too as even Akainu was matching those and WB's quake punches have been calc'd at country lvl too

Ok, now I see why you think he can swim. He can’t, but I can see why you’d think a fish fruit is useless without the ability to swim. The Fruit he uses is based off a tale about a carp turning into a dragon. (Magikarp and Gyarados are also based off of that) That‘s why it is a mythical Zoan type. Heck, I’m pretty sure now that he is a dragon he doesn’t have gills anymore.
Moral of the story, he does not have the ability to swim, his fruit is based on a mythical story.
We have not seen him swim, nor has it ever been mentioned that he is the only DF user in the world that can swim. That’s a big plot point and if it were the case it would have been mentioned before

Would make no sense if he could swim. People can swim. They can't when they eat a DF. Fish can swim. They can't when they eat a DF. Why would eating a Fish DF let you swim? It'd let you breathe underwater, perhaps...if it didn't immediately revert you.

@ssjbatdan: my thoughts exactly

We don't know enough about Kaido to comment on this but I'd wager the reason he can't die by drowning probably has nothing to do with his DF

No, you don't.

Mercphobia solos

@the_lost_cleric: By actual feats and scaling he's out of Kiado's league in terms of power

Snatch works completely different compared to Law's ability. So I don't know why you brought that up

What actual feats and scaling puts Ban out of Kaido's league in terms of power? It's the opposite if anything.

Both can telekinetically snipe their target's heart out, there's no difference there.

I think Haki specifically counters devil fruit abilities so having much stronger haki than someone else means you can prevent certain abilities like getting cut in half by Law's fruit or getting your heart stolen. Since energies aren't equalized Ban should be able to steal his heart.

@the_lost_cleric: Mael's casual cloud dispersion, Mel's Danafor feat, his punch that caused large fissures. Feat wise and scaling wise, Ban trumps Kaido

One uses space manip and gets countered by haki, while the other doesn't have to worry about haki & can effect people well above Ban's paygrade...pretty different

@dimitri1220: That makes zero sense, it's like saying Bleach characters can only resist reiatsu powered hax, Naruto characters can only resist chakra powered hax, etc, because that's all they have ever faced. Point is he can deal with hax of that nature.

@yamatama: None of those feats go above large island lvl at best, Kaido scales to country lvl feats like WB's quake punches or the Onigashima lift. It's both the same hax, and Law wouldn't struggle to affect anyone out of verse either unless they have specific resistance to that kind of thing.

Both the Mael & Mel feat were calced at country lvl and most certainly more impressive than both those OP feats you mentioned.

It's not the same hax. The don't even work the same way. One has a specific way around it like having stronger haki and uses space manip. Ban's is magical in nature, doesn't use space manip but some kind of telekinesis and isn't affected by the opponent's haki/magical power. Kaido has no counter to Ban's snatching his heart from multiple kms away with his weapon.

@yamatama: Mael feat has always been calc'd at large island lvl and the Danafor feat would only be small country if you assumed complete vaporization which there's not enough evidence of. And since we later find out Mel had his Assault Mode during the time of the Danafor feat and that was a berserk, bloodlusted Mel using all his power, Ban may not even necessarily scale to it. Both the feats I mentioned have been calc'd at country lvl.

As I said to the other guy, that's just OP's mechanic for dealing with hax, it'd work out of verse against hax of similar nature. We don't say Bleach characters can only resist reiatsu based hax, Naruto characters can only resist chakra based hax, FT/NNT characters can only resist magic, etc, it's the same here. For the record Fox Hunt has been resisted by simply being a lot more powerful than Ban as with Estarossa.

Mercu stomps him and his fodder verse as usual with any FT God tier sols OP. Kaido being a fish means nothing, as it simply means he can breathe underwater. It doesn't change the fact once he's drowned he becomes immobile and useless, due to side-effect of DF. Like how Jack was. Plus Mercu would physically maul him.

Ban can arguably win as well, as he's got the physicals to match Kaido if not overpower and drain him with Snatch.

Only one who gets stomped is Byakuya, who is with any typical Bleach char relies on fan-theories & fan-scaling and none of his on-screen feats are visually impressive.

I would suggest people should wait to see Kaido's feats before making headcanon arguments on what he could potentially do, because your expectations could be too high and you might be disappointed.

@molt: Byakuya scales to Vollstandig Gerard who in weaker forms matched eyepatch off Shikai Kenny. Shikai Kenny with eyepatch on has a a casual country lvl feat, I'd say Byakuya is the strongest on the team.

@the_lost_cleric: Here and here, not enough evidence of complete vaporization? There was nothing left of Danafor and there was clear vapor after the explosion. Ban scales considering he was capable of keeping up with DK Mel.

This has nothing to do with Ban's ability being different to law's....

Let's not compare the difference between pre-purgatory Ban and Esta and Current Ban and Kaido. Like I said before, Ban's abilities can work on people way above his pay grade like with Demon Hendy. Only when the difference becomes - casual flexing of muscles >>>>> Amped Ban's entire bodying imploding will you make a case for ban's abilities not working.

You can read Meliodas vs Ichigo CAV 2. Mevbi debunked Sereitei's size, which is the only way Kenpachi's feat can be inflated than what it visually looks like.

@yamatama:Most of those results are high end ones which make big assumptions about timeframe and how far the dispersal spread. It's better to take the low end interpretation which is large island lvl as the Naruto forums thread discusses too. Country lvl is iffy given the Sins' final combined attack FC'd multiple times was only hyped to destroy Britain.

Which can easily be dust cloud from pulverization. Can I see the country lvl calc for Danafor btw? Even with vaporization it's hard to believe something of that size gives country lvl yields. I found two on VSBW and Anime Vice (here and here) which puts it at Gigatons (island lvl) range.

I am also not sure how Ban's physicals scale above these. Both these feats are magic based and NNT differentiates between magic and physicals.

Ban only "kept up" with the DK Mel when he was also weakened by the internal conflict with Mel, in any case every Sin "kept up" with the DK, King and Diane did while flirting, it means little.

They have the same exact effect, sniping the target's organ out remotely, only one is with DF and the other through magic. Conversely I'd also argue Law's Shambles not working on NNT god tiers.

It'd be larger in all honesty. pre purgatory Ban and Estarossa are like mountain lvl and island lvl respectively I imagine, Narutoforums which puts Mael's feat at 4.19 Teratons in the thread you showed puts WB's quake punches at 1.17 petatons here , and the Onigashima lift also gives small country lvl yields with reasonable timeframe estimates like 5 secs as calc'd here (post 208). So the difference is an order of magnitude higher.

WB creating the tsunamis is also put at country lvl by VSBW, and the site horrendously lowballs the series (they put Roger at large mountain lmfao). And to top it all these are extremely casual feats (in the case of the Onigashima lift) or done by a character in a nerfed state (as with old WB or Kaido doing his in base) which the NNT feats aren't. So nobody in NNT can really match Kaido in power at all, even if you used calcs.

@molt: Ah the age old Seireitei size argument I presume. I agree that the visual depiction of Seireitei is incredibly inconsistent though I'd personally take Kubo's authorial intent over that. But sounds fun, will check it out.

Merc solos

I made a mistake voting merc solos i don't know anything about fairy tail, but byakuya should match kaido in one on one by himself, so if the other are more or less comparable to kaido he gets murdered

@expo7: I'm not saying kaido can't drown but he's a mythical zoan and he's referred to strongest creature on land sea and air

Lol Byakuya of all people is getting undesold, since he remotely scales to Gerard he trashes Kaido and shreds him to pieces scales and all.