Kaido vs Akainu, Kizaru, Greenbull and Fujitora

Team shitstomps lmao

Admirals 10/10

Kaido is not a PK level

When was it stated in the story that the Pirate King is stronger than the Yonko? Roger literally avoided fighting Big Mom, lol.

OT: You could argue Kaido could beat 2 of them at a time, but all four of them is too much and round 2 is just overkill.

@mortein: Kaido is easly PK Tier and extreme-diffs Roger.Not to say their is no gap between them.Stop wanking the Fraud Roger

OT: Kaido gets stomped neg-diff.He can defeat 2 of them at the same time but lol at 4

No one, not even Roger or Xebec can take on 4 admirals. The team wins.

@dolchio: Roger and Xebec are no diffing 4 Admirals I'm sorry bro. The only Yonko level admirals are Garp and Sengoku. Every other Admiral is below Doflamingo level.

Akainu and Aokiji could only affect the island in their fight. Doflamingo was going to destroy Dressrosa and Fujitora couldn't stop him which means Doflamingo > Fujitora

The Admiral were worried about trashbeard while Doflamingo was having fun at Marineford. This is also proof that Doflamingo >= Admiral

Team stomps

Lol this is ridiculous. Akainu and Aokiji alone would have a fight to the death with Kaido. Any two Admirals shit stomp.

Anyone who thinks Kaido soloing delusional 💀

Admirals stomp 10/10 times

^^

Mismatch, and OP (Wh clearly has a winner in mind), Is arguing in his thread

Kaido should beat any of them 1v1 with varying difficulties but all the admirals at once is BS

Kaido easily until the others do more on panel. So, Kaido probably gets shit stomped in a few years.

Doflamingo >= Admiral

Lmao

Kaido lose he ain’t beating 4 admirals at once

kaido gets molested

And here in this thread, you see how many don't read One Piece.

With the established tier that Conqueror Haki alone brings, Kaido will single handily easy to mid-dif the Admirals based on how much of a fight he really wants. While all capable in their own rights, we see clear differences now between the Admirals and Yonkos and the best they can be is 1 step up above Yonko Commanders.

Let me remind people; that Marco could tango with King, Queen and the Admirals with little trouble. Yet couldn't even square up against Big Mom.

That's how big the power gap is.

Rayleigh was able to fight against an admiral despite being old and inactive. Logically a fighter in his prime should be able to stomp an old and inactive version of himself. And given how he himself implied he would have been able to simultaniouly fight Kizaru and save SHs from Pacifistas and Sentomaru if only he was a bit younger, I think Rayleigh is no exception to this degradation that comes with aging.

And yet a prime Rayleigh was just a subordinate of Roger, and we have seen there was a significant gap between Yonkous and their first mates, and given all the parallels between old and new generations, the power difference between Roger and Rayleigh should be at least comparable to the power difference between Luffy and Zoro.

Similarly, the story is set up in such a away that Zoro will surpass Mihawk and become the best swordsman, roughly around the same time Luffy becomes the Pirate King.

Mihawk is a Yonkou level, I think that's confirmed now that he has joined Buggy and elevated his fleet to the Yonkou level.

Power difference between Zoro and Luffy is significant and it has only been growing larger as the story progressed. If Zoro becomes a younko level, then PK level Luffy will have to be a 1 tier above.

...What...

Akainu and Aokiji alone would give Kaido an extreme diff fight, all of them at once is overkill

Doffy over Admirals when Aokiji effortlessly flash froze Doffy and made him back out of the fight.

Admirals. Too much

Look I love Kaido man, he's like my favorite fruit, but this team is way above his nonexistent paygrade.

@kajin_style:Um... I've seen some admiral downplay but... yikes. To say that you can "see how many don't read One Piece" is just not only disrespectful but draws even more attention to your own lack of understanding of the admirals strength/portrayal.

To say that "the established tier that Conqueror Haki alone brings, Kaido will single handily easy to mid-dif the Admirals" is straight outright wrong. Conquerors coating while powerful isn't an end all be all as we literally see Yamato bash Greenbull across the head and his response "ow, nice haki" that's it now if you wanna say "yamato's weak, she wasn't trying, she wasn't in hybrid form" go ahead you can make your argument (I don't think it'll be beneficial but you can argue it) but to say just because Kaido has Conquerors Coating he can suddenly Low-Mid-diff an Admiral is hilarious to say the least.

As for the Admirals can only ever be "1 step up above Yonko Commanders" I honestly find that hilarious for multiple reasons. 1. The YC1/Vice Captain/First Mate tier literally doesn't exist as the power varies SIGNIFICANTLY between the supoosed "YC1" tier, 2. A single step above a "YC1" as you say the admirals are, would not be able to walk through the entirety of Whitebeard's crew including Whitebeard and people like Ivankov, Inazuma, Marineford Crocodile, Jimbei, and etc. Yet Akainu walked through the whole crew, crocodile, Jimbei, and Ivankov by himself in 4 Chapters (Aokiji directly scales to Akainu due to their Punk Hazard fight).

To even say that Marco "could tango with King, Queen and the Admirals with little trouble" shows a even greater sense of bias. To say that Marco tango'd with King and Queen is honestly hilarious Marco did literally nothing to K/Q in fact K/Q weren't even trying they were both in base form and at the end of the "fight" if you would even call it that K/Q were fine and Marco was off to the side like dying. As for the Admirals Marco dealt no lasting damage and only survived because of his devil fruit and special flames and without those Marco would've been dead the exact same chapter he was introduced taking on Kizaru's lasers.

@mortein:

First of all an old Rayleigh who can barely stall a holding back admiral especially someone like Kizaru who is known for his non-trying behavior is not in Rayleigh's favor. To say that Prime Rayleigh would be able to save the SH and fight kizaru i'll say sure he coulda done it.... On the condition that Kizaru stayed at same level he was fighting old Rayleigh at but if Kizaru became serious (if it is possible/if he would do it) I don't think Prime Rayleigh has the power to fend off a serious admiral and assist the SH's. As for the "a fighter in his prime should be able to stomp an old and inactive version of himself" while I would agree to some extent (I think it would be at least a low diff not a stomp) if this was real life but one piece is different and people can last for a long time and still have strength throughout the years as shown by garp, sengoku, and even Dr. Kureha as they while weaker they are still kicking even now (Not on the same level as there prime but they are still strong).

As for you saying there is a significant gap between Captain and Vice while I do think that may be for some Captains and Vice's it is not for all as we have things like Benn Beckman being the moon to Shanks' sun or as we have Roger the Pirate King to Rayleigh the Dark King. So while you may think that Rayleigh is significantly weaker than Roger Rayleigh's portrayal says otherwise that's why I disagree.

As for the Luffy being significantly stronger than Zoro while I agree on a broad note I have to recognize than Zoro has relative attack power to Luffy with Ashura but yeah otherwise Luffy is much stronger. As for EoS Luffy being a tier above zoro I disagree not entirely of course but EoS Zoro might have mastered Asura have 3 Black Blades and mastered Conqueror's coating so at least on a attack level I think zoro will be on the same level and honestly could be argued to have stronger attack power by EoS because well 3 Black Blades, Mastered Ashura, and Mastered Conqueror's coating could mean heavy damage no matter who zoro cuts. As for Luffy being a tier above I think it will be more like Luffy being near the top of the highest tier and zoro being on the same tier but near or at the bottom of that tier.

EDIT: Realized after posting I didn't really directly answer if Kaido could defeat the admirals. My answer of course is Kaido cannot defeat the admirals in fact I think Akainu alone would be an incredibly hard match for Kaido which could honestly go either way though I'd favour Akainu (I could go into depth as to why I think Akainu would win in the end but I'll save that for if anyone wants to talk about it). Now if Kaido fought two admirals Kaido ain't winning that fight.

Admirals dog that man. Akainu fighting all of Whitebeard's commanders after fighting Newgate himself shoulda debunked this idea that Commanders = Admirals

A lot of rambling from someone who doesn't read One Piece. Let's start from the top:

1. The only way to hurt Kaido and Big Mom is with Ryou or Conqueror's Haki. Anything else is gonna have a very hard time or require some serious heavy duty DF awakening hax like Kidd and Law.

2. While Yamato was able to survive an encounter against Kaido, she didn't stay to finish her fight and in the middle of it knew she couldn't take him.

3. Greenbull nearly shat himself when Shanks focused his conqueror's Haki on him. That's how powerful a master of Conq Haki is.

4. Not a single Yonko Commander or Admiral has Ryou Haki or conqueror's haki, that we know of as of this moment. Meaning they best damage they can do is whatever Oden, Zoro or the 9 Scabbards did.

5. Damaging Kaido is not the same as kicking his ass. Luffy learned this the hard way. He was the only one who could consistently damage Kaido over and over again and getting a few good blows in wasn't enough. Even when he discovered the Conq. Haki coating, it wasn't enough to bridge the power gap.

6. As an awaken Zoan; Kaido has super human regeneration as mentioned by Crocodile in Impel down when talking about awaken Zoan. None of the admirals, alone or collectively has enough AP to take out Kaido.

7. If the Admirals had the power, they would've taken down Kaido long ago. At best they assume they got a 50/50 shot but with the display we got from Greenbull their chances are lower and they won't test that.

8. Kaido can be assumed to have high heat resistance from being a dragon and possibly fire immunity due to his fire dragon form. Akainu's DF just lost its power. Also Kaido flies, what is Akainu doing from the ground?

9. Fujitora's gravity is nothing to Kaido. He literally lifted an island with his flame clouds and backpacked it during the entire raid and went through a gauntlet of battles with 3 rematches against Luffy. So yeah, until we see bigger feats from Fujitora, he isn't lasting.

10. Kizaru's Light speed is nothing compared to Kaido's speed who was able to out pace a Conq Haki+Ryou empowered+future Sighted+G4 Snakeman Luffy while drunk. Not only that, he flat out admits to Luffy to having Future Sight as well.

11. None of them has displayed or implied any feat as remotely as powerful as G5 Bajrang gun. Not in size of destruction but raw AP, cause we all know that thing was Conqueror haki+ryou+arnament infused punch.

12. The fact Marco and other Yonko Commanders from Whitebeard's crew was able to square up against Admirals and survive is enough to tell you where their power is.

13. Marco himself was able to blitz King and Queen, yet couldn't break out of Big Mom's grasp.

14. Big Mom deflected Luffy's G4 bazooka so hard with her Haki, it knocked him out of G4 in Whole Cake.

15. None of the Yonko Commanders would even dare square up against their own Yonko. The gap between them is too damn and you get that impression alone from her kids who fear Big Mom tantrums. Katakuri wouldn't even dare fight Big Mom cause he knows, he lose.

16. Ultimately the Admirals do not have any feats currently to suggest they can do much better than the Yonko Commanders. Sure, Greenbull took out two heavily injured Yonko Commanders, but they were injured and he probably snuck up on them anyway.

This thread legit proves how garbage Kajin_Styles powerscale is

^

just one Admiral gave Whitebeard a hard fight, 4 of them would stomp Kaido.

What incentive Kizaru had that made him hold back against Rayleigh? Has he stated he's holding back?

Garp and Sengoku are vastly weaker than they used to be. Garp was a PK level character, and Sengoku wasn't far behind.

I'm not saying they lose all their strength, but they certainly fall a tier below where they were in prime.

As for you saying there is a significant gap between Captain and Vice while I do think that may be for some Captains and Vice's it is not for all as we have things like Benn Beckman being the moon to Shanks' sun or as we have Roger the Pirate King to Rayleigh the Dark King. So while you may think that Rayleigh is significantly weaker than Roger Rayleigh's portrayal says otherwise that's why I disagree.

Well, yeah, we have some crews where the difference between the captain and the first mate is massive, like Kaido and King, BM and Katakuri, Whitebeard and Marco, and then we have some other crews where the difference is smaller, but still significant, Like Roger and Ray, Shanks and Ben, or Luffy and Zoro.

All I'm saying is that around the same time Luffy reaches the PK level, Zoro will reach the Yonkou level. Considering the difference between Luffy and Zoro is significant, and it has only been growing larger as the story progressed, I would conclude that the difference between PK level and a Yonkou level is significant enough to be recognized.

And I don't think Zoro will be a bottom of a yonkou tier either. Shanks is at least a mid tier yonkou, and Mihawk is comparable to him, and Zoro will surpass him, or more likely Shiryu will surpass Mihawk, and then Zoro will surpass Shiryu, making him close to high yonkou level.

Also, Luffy is currently a solid Yonkou level, and we know he will not stop improving and growing during the last few arcs of the series. Is it really controversial to say that by the time Luffy reaches PK level, he will be much more powerful than he's now?

Kaido gets assaulted

@kajin_style: Stop saying "doesn't read One Piece" it's not helping your case and is just plain rude. But as you say let's start from the top:

1. The only way to hurt Kaido and Big Mom is with Ryou or Conqueror's Haki or DF awakening hax.

Um... you do realize that Kaido and Big Mom have been hurt but even the most mundane or things. Kaido got hurt by Falling off an island, got hurt by getting hit by metal scrap, got hurt by rocks, got hurt by momo's bite, and yet you say they can't be hurt without Ryou, Conq. Coating, or DF Hax when Kaido has literally shown to be hurt by mundane things. If you try to say "but as for the rocks, and scrap those were flung by Law and Kid" I'll say this Law used Takt on the rocks but either way those rocks were still rocks and the same for Kid's scrap it is still scrap (he even says so) and all they did was fling them hard at kaido and he got hurt. As for Big Mom she got hurt by scrap so that's some thing and even if in much different circumstances Big Mom also hurt herself in WCI after the incident.

2. While Yamato was able to survive an encounter against Kaido, she didn't stay to finish her fight and in the middle of it knew she couldn't take him.

Mmmm.... Yamato downplay.... sure you can say she knew she couldn't take him but that doesn't change that fact that she DID and she did so for a long while even trading blows tanking some hits, and blocking/canceling out others. Either way Yamato was able to trade blows and keep up with a hybrid kaido and deal some damage.

3. Greenbull nearly shat himself when Shanks focused his conqueror's Haki on him. That's how powerful a master of Conq Haki is.

Greenbull slander... he was surprised and it's not like Shanks was the sole reason he left it was the entire Red Hair Pirates crew. It's not like he would never fight them he even said he would but just not yet and who could blame him he signed up to fight the strawhat's not the entirety of two yonko crews in allegiance at the exact same time.

4. Not a single Yonko Commander or Admiral has Ryou Haki or conqueror's haki, that we know of as of this moment. Meaning they best damage they can do is whatever Oden, Zoro or the 9 Scabbards did.

We can assume Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu have Ryou due to how they casually dispersed whitebeards shockwave by just lifting their hands and in fact freaking Sentomaru has ryou (Just saying also Kawamatsu has Ryou). As for Conq. we don't know in fact we don't know if Garp or Sengoku has Conq. Coating as for all we know Garp just has amazing Armament Haki that can compete with Roger's Conquers.

5. Damaging Kaido is not the same as kicking his ass. Luffy learned this the hard way. He was the only one who could consistently damage Kaido over and over again and getting a few good blows in wasn't enough. Even when he discovered the Conq. Haki coating, it wasn't enough to bridge the power gap.

Law damaged Kaido many times with moves like Injection shot, Gamma Knife, and even Takt... Zoro would have hurt kaido a few times and with Ashura he parried kaido and put a scar on kaido. Either way I'm just saying Law and Zoro with every attack either dealt damage or threatened to deal some damage to kaido. Then there was yamato who bashed kaido's face many times and fought one on one so to say there was no one that could consistently damage Kaido is wong.

6. As an awaken Zoan; Kaido has super human regeneration as mentioned by Crocodile in Impel down when talking about awaken Zoan. None of the admirals, alone or collectively has enough AP to take out Kaido.

We have no clue if Kaido is an awakened zoan like at all... all we have is speculation nothing more nothing less now if you wanna say that his Flaming Drum Dragon is an awakened form or that his homicidal drunk form is his awakened form go ahead but I'll tell you this now we have no proof. Unless Oda says Kaido was awakened zoan then we can't say he is. As for kaido's supposed super regeneration lets say he does have it... now what? It literally does nothing at all being awakened means is that when you are knocked down/out you can get up fast and your a bit more powerful than your hybrid form. But If your facing Akainu and your knocked down he isn't just gonna wait till you get back up they're gonna finish you off right there and then.

7. If the Admirals had the power, they would've taken down Kaido long ago. At best they assume they got a 50/50 shot but with the display we got from Greenbull their chances are lower and they won't test that.

You act as if the Admirals aren't dogs for the Celestial Dragons. As for the "If the Admirals have the power..." argument you seem to forget the Yonko's aren't the only pirates in the world and that if all the admirals just leave to fight the Yonko's in their territories it leaves not only mariejois vulnerable but also alot of marine bases to let other pirates run free. We even have Akainu and such talking about their forces being spread thin because of all the pirate activity all around the world.

8. Kaido can be assumed to have high heat resistance from being a dragon and possibly fire immunity due to his fire dragon form. Akainu's DF just lost its power. Also Kaido flies, what is Akainu doing from the ground?

"Fire immunity" you say... the more you write the more I'm confused... Kaido yelped with pain after getting hit by his own blast breathe... so what are you talking about and in addition both Kaido and Big Mom are taking a swim in magma currently...

9. Fujitora's gravity is nothing to Kaido. He literally lifted an island with his flame clouds and backpacked it during the entire raid and went through a gauntlet of battles with 3 rematches against Luffy. So yeah, until we see bigger feats from Fujitora, he isn't lasting.

Fujitora's casual gravity has better feats than Kid's awakened magnetism... Big Mom and Kaido are equals due to their 3 day fight... Kids magnetism can hinder Big mom... We haven't seen any admiral go all out Fujitora included... Admirals are assumed to have awakened their Devil Fruits... In conclusion Fujitora most definitely can affect Kaido with his Gravity powers...

10. Kizaru's Light speed is nothing compared to Kaido's speed who was able to out pace a Conq Haki+Ryou empowered+future Sighted+G4 Snakeman Luffy while drunk. Not only that, he flat out admits to Luffy to having Future Sight as well.

Kizaru isn't limited to lightspeed and even if he were dodging multiple FTL+ punches is different from dodging an aerial bombardment of thousands upon thousands of lasers at once.

11. None of them has displayed or implied any feat as remotely as powerful as G5 Bajrang gun. Not in size of destruction but raw AP, cause we all know that thing was Conqueror haki+ryou+arnament infused punch.

Akainu vs Aokiji punk hazard which alters the climate. Aokiji casually makes an "continent of ice." Fujitora lifts all of Dressrosa's rubble easily and can send meteors to earth faster than the eye of ceasar clown can see. Kizaru overdoing it a bit drops a mangrove tree with ease. Akainu is said to find the one piece with one year of serialization. Akainu has a devil with one of the highest offensive powers. The marines under Akainu's rule are stronger than they have ever been that means the Navy is stronger than when Garp, Sengoku, and Kong were at there primes. People call the admirals and yonkos the peak of power. And yet you tell me that the admirals aren't up to par to people like luffy and the yonko's... yikes...

12. The fact Marco and other Yonko Commanders from Whitebeard's crew was able to square up against Admirals and survive is enough to tell you where their power is.

Jozu lost an arm, marco is mentally scarred for life, the entirety of Whitebeards crew and whitebeard along with crocodile, ivankov, inazuma, and Jimbei couldn't keep Akainu from scarring luffy. Akainu as I have said many of times WALKED through all of these people and left the war with no lasting damage.

13. Marco himself was able to blitz King and Queen, yet couldn't break out of Big Mom's grasp.

Marco did nothing to K/Q and the feat you mention is a speed feat not a strength feat so Big Mom would scale to Marco's feat as she only holds marco she doesn't blitz him (I'm not say she couldn't I'm just saying your scaling doesn't work).

14. Big Mom deflected Luffy's G4 bazooka so hard with her Haki, it knocked him out of G4 in Whole Cake.

Marco is stronger than WCI Luffy if not at least comparable and Marco was walked through by the admirals in marineford.

15. None of the Yonko Commanders would even dare square up against their own Yonko. The gap between them is too damn and you get that impression alone from her kids who fear Big Mom tantrums. Katakuri wouldn't even dare fight Big Mom cause he knows, he lose.

You know the marines have a thing called the law they have to follow as such they will almost always go for the capture when they meet a pirate but pirates they don't have such a restriction as such they are inherently more dangerous. So to say that a yonko commander who fears their captain but doesn't fear an admiral must means that the admiral must be less dangerous than the yonko ignores the fact that the pirates don't have a code to follow while the marines do.

That is why Doflamingo doesn't care for the marines but does care about Kaido since kaido doesn't have morals and wouldn't just capture him he would kill him. And also Doflamingo doesn't fear the world government since Doflamingo has sway over mariejois due to his knowledge. So what i'm saying is that of course pirates are going to be fearsome because they have no rule they are chaos but the Navy/World Gov't has laws and order as such they can be exploited since they have rules they have to follow.

16. Ultimately the Admirals do not have any feats currently to suggest they can do much better than the Yonko Commanders. Sure, Greenbull took out two heavily injured Yonko Commanders, but they were injured and he probably snuck up on them anyway.

Heavily injured... it was implied they fought straight up and it was a week past after they got defeated... Greenbull didn't just "take out two Yonko commanders" he literally no diffed them and said he would be disgraced if he an admiral were to lose to mere yonko commanders. Stop the downplay sure you can say they weren't at there best but to say he "snuck up on them" and that they were "heavily injured' is just disrespectful.

@mortein:Thanks for the response I'll try my best to keep my response quick.

1. What incentive Kizaru had that made him hold back against Rayleigh? Has he stated he's holding back?

The question you should be asking is not "what made him hold back" but "what wouldn't make him hold back" as Kizaru's personality is literally just being chill/not being serious. for kizaru to become serious I think he would need to be fighting either a Yonko 1v1 or fight an Yonko's whole crew. We see kizaru in Sabaody and Marineford playing around calling fodder scary and dangerous and in general in the marineford war the admirals were passing banter to each other and playing with their opponents (Kizaru was literally standing on top of whitebeards Naginata a supreme grade weapon).

2. Garp and Sengoku are vastly weaker than they used to be. Garp was a PK level character, and Sengoku wasn't far behind. I'm not saying they lose all their strength, but they certainly fall a tier below where they were in prime.

Vastly weaker I don't think so but weaker yes. Garp still had confidence that he could hurt Akainu (do I think he could... no but his confidence speaks leagues to his current capability) and Sengoku was able to hold down Garp and even Clash with a Gura Gura quake attack from Blackbeard.

3. Well, yeah, we have some crews where the difference between the captain and the first mate is massive, like Kaido and King, BM and Katakuri, Whitebeard and Marco, and then we have some other crews where the difference is smaller, but still significant, Like Roger and Ray, Shanks and Ben, or Luffy and Zoro.

As for Whitebeard and Marco I don't think Marco is Whitebeards First Mate I think Oden was the one who has that seat and it only fell to Marco after Oden left. So the list of comparable vice captains in my eyes Roger/Rayleigh, Whitebeard/Oden, Shanks/Ben Beckman, and Luffy/Zoro while I do think the first mates may be comparable this is not to say that I think that a vice can defeat the captain because I don't.

4. All I'm saying is that around the same time Luffy reaches the PK level, Zoro will reach the Yonkou level. Considering the difference between Luffy and Zoro is significant, and it has only been growing larger as the story progressed, I would conclude that the difference between PK level and a Yonkou level is significant enough to be recognized.

I don't think Pirate King level exists since to say that you'd be saying someone like Kaido would lose to Roger without a hard fight when in fact I think the clash between the two would be very close. Now as for do I think there is a tier above yonko/admiral yes I do (Not Pirate King Level though) and I think that tier is occupied by people like Rocks D. Xebec, Ryuma Shimotsuki, EoS Blackbeard, EoS Luffy, Dragon? and maybe Imu but in all honesty I think even Imu is above the other people on that list as I think Imu is going to be even more powerful than any before and any to be in one piece.

5. And I don't think Zoro will be a bottom of a yonkou tier either. Shanks is at least a mid tier yonkou, and Mihawk is comparable to him, and Zoro will surpass him, or more likely Shiryu will surpass Mihawk, and then Zoro will surpass Shiryu, making him close to high yonkou level.

I can see why you say that but for me I rank the Yonko more strictly and while I have Kaido be a high end yonko, Big mom the high end of mid yonko, I have shanks at the low end of the mid yonko area with mihawk his peer. As such at the end I have Zoro at best beating Big Mom. Though honestly the more I think about it and the possibilities... actually... I think Zoro EoS might be able to defeat any yonko (including even roger) because if zoro gets everything people attribute to him and more he could be one of the strongest people out there. For me the peak zoro can achieve is not "World's strongest swordsmen" but in fact Ryuma's "Sword God" title which supersedes mihawk's title and since zoro uses three blades I could totally see zoro with 3 black blades, mastered conq. coating and mastered Ashura as such yeah I do think Zoro will be up there I agree. I guess my problem stands with the PK tier as it doesn't exist.

6. Also, Luffy is currently a solid Yonkou level, and we know he will not stop improving and growing during the last few arcs of the series. Is it really controversial to say that by the time Luffy reaches PK level, he will be much more powerful than he's now?

Yes luffy is strong but I feel if say Kaido came back from the dead (If he is dead) and fought Luffy while both are undamaged and Kaido isn't just going to try to take Bajrang Gun head on I think Kaido would win would it be easy of course not but I think If Kaido used his best stuff right off the bat and stopped trying to just tank attacks I feel like G5 Luffy would have alot of trouble in trying take down Kaido.

if it was only Greenbull and Fuji it would've been an interesting fight

Kaido smash their heads, if shanks has power to blitz and kill kizaru easily in the film then kaido will do the same to everyone slower than kizaru.

Old, sick, weathered, no-haki using Whitebeard.. yes.. he Akainu did give him a hard time while he was at Death's door.

@plaguedocter said:

@kajin_style: Stop saying "doesn't read One Piece" it's not helping your case and is just plain rude. But as you say let's start from the top:

Sure, ruin my fun. :(

Um... you do realize that Kaido and Big Mom have been hurt but even the most mundane or things. Kaido got hurt by Falling off an island, got hurt by getting hit by metal scrap, got hurt by rocks, got hurt by momo's bite, and yet you say they can't be hurt without Ryou, Conq. Coating, or DF Hax when Kaido has literally shown to be hurt by mundane things. If you try to say "but as for the rocks, and scrap those were flung by Law and Kid" I'll say this Law used Takt on the rocks but either way those rocks were still rocks and the same for Kid's scrap it is still scrap (he even says so) and all they did was fling them hard at kaido and he got hurt. As for Big Mom she got hurt by scrap so that's some thing and even if in much different circumstances Big Mom also hurt herself in WCI after the incident.

1. You know what I mean.. or don't you? Hurt as in injured aka taking lasting damage. Everything else is temporary and never mattered or was a factor in his fights. We see it happen in fiction all the time; the characters get hit by something and they react but they don't real take any damage. If you cut out those instances from the story, it changes nothing. Those weren't real damage, just them reacting to some mild inconvenience.

Mmmm.... Yamato downplay.... sure you can say she knew she couldn't take him but that doesn't change that fact that she DID and she did so for a long while even trading blows tanking some hits, and blocking/canceling out others. Either way Yamato was able to trade blows and keep up with a hybrid kaido and deal some damage.

2. Meanwhile the Scabbards did damage too but it didn't matter. Their blows were too shallow, Kaido said so as much. While Yamato is better than the Scabbards, she still isn't strong enough to do any real damage. By the end of their fight in chapter 1025, you see Yamato reverting back to her human form. She is losing the fight and is going to make a desperate charge attack right before Kaido was gonna land the finishing blow.

Yet pages earlier you see them duking it out in their hybrid forms and it cuts away from when he is pounding on her with his club. She never stood a chance.

Greenbull slander... he was surprised and it's not like Shanks was the sole reason he left it was the entire Red Hair Pirates crew. It's not like he would never fight them he even said he would but just not yet and who could blame him he signed up to fight the strawhat's not the entirety of two yonko crews in allegiance at the exact same time.

3. Greenbull does not look to be surprised. He looks to be paralyzed and in pain. A display of Conqueror's Haki alone is not enough. Shank's haki has a direct effect on him and there are rumors about what that is if you look into the Film Red spoilers. So needless to say, Shanks alone is is enough.

We can assume Kizaru, Aokiji and Akainu have Ryou due to how they casually dispersed whitebeards shockwave by just lifting their hands and in fact freaking Sentomaru has ryou (Just saying also Kawamatsu has Ryou). As for Conq. we don't know in fact we don't know if Garp or Sengoku has Conq. Coating as for all we know Garp just has amazing Armament Haki that can compete with Roger's Conquers.

4. Even if they had Ryou it would not be enough. Oden with his best attack couldn't put down Kaido, and at best just got him worked up for a good fight. Neither the Scabbards, and neither did luffy without Conqueror's haki were able to do enough damage to severely injured Kaido or bring him down.

Garp most likely has Conq. Haki just to explain away why he could hang with Roger and Rayleigh. There's no way he could without it. Garp also made a remark about Luffy inheriting it, which implies he might have it.

Law damaged Kaido many times with moves like Injection shot, Gamma Knife, and even Takt... Zoro would have hurt kaido a few times and with Ashura he parried kaido and put a scar on kaido. Either way I'm just saying Law and Zoro with every attack either dealt damage or threatened to deal some damage to kaido. Then there was yamato who bashed kaido's face many times and fought one on one so to say there was no one that could consistently damage Kaido is wong.

5. This does not disprove my point. All these attacks weren't enough, only Zoro's was enough and that is only because he unlocked his own Conq. Haki which Kaido made a remark on.

We have no clue if Kaido is an awakened zoan like at all... all we have is speculation nothing more nothing less now if you wanna say that his Flaming Drum Dragon is an awakened form or that his homicidal drunk form is his awakened form go ahead but I'll tell you this now we have no proof. Unless Oda says Kaido was awakened zoan then we can't say he is. As for kaido's supposed super regeneration lets say he does have it... now what? It literally does nothing at all being awakened means is that when you are knocked down/out you can get up fast and your a bit more powerful than your hybrid form. But If your facing Akainu and your knocked down he isn't just gonna wait till you get back up they're gonna finish you off right there and then.

6. His Flaming Drum Dragon is the awaken form, yup. It be silly to not make him awaken at this point in the series. It also fills in the holes with his regenerative abilities and stamina. He's taking a lot of hits, even laws Gamma Knife and still kept on ticking. I'm sure we'll hear about Kaido being awaken from Oda in an SBS or something.

You act as if the Admirals aren't dogs for the Celestial Dragons. As for the "If the Admirals have the power..." argument you seem to forget the Yonko's aren't the only pirates in the world and that if all the admirals just leave to fight the Yonko's in their territories it leaves not only mariejois vulnerable but also alot of marine bases to let other pirates run free. We even have Akainu and such talking about their forces being spread thin because of all the pirate activity all around the world.

7. Yet they the admirals gathered for Marineford to face down Whitebeard. Despite 3 of them being on the field they barely could get past the commanders to get a shot in at Whitebeard. They got wrecked by an ill man at death's door who couldn't even use Haki anymore.

My point is, if the Admirals were as strong as you claim, that 4 of them could take down Kaido, they had years before Luffy set out to see to do it but they didn't do it. They didn't have the power to take down a Yonko and never did.

"Fire immunity" you say... the more you write the more I'm confused... Kaido yelped with pain after getting hit by his own blast breathe... so what are you talking about and in addition both Kaido and Big Mom are taking a swim in magma currently...

8. Oh you mean when Raizo threw back his own blast breath at him? Of course he's gonna make a sound, it exploded on him! Did you see him burned? Did you see burnt scuff marks on him? Did he make a remark about being burned? Nope, he didn't cause dragon be dragon. Ha, look at that Kaido and Big Mom Slander and downplay and yet you made a remark about what I said regarding Yamato. Eitherway, to me they are still alive, despite the cryptic paneling. Others have survived things that should've 100% killed them.

Fujitora's casual gravity has better feats than Kid's awakened magnetism... Big Mom and Kaido are equals due to their 3 day fight... Kids magnetism can hinder Big mom... We haven't seen any admiral go all out Fujitora included... Admirals are assumed to have awakened their Devil Fruits... In conclusion Fujitora most definitely can affect Kaido with his Gravity powers...

9. Kaido lifts an island with his flame clouds. That's all you need to compare with Fujitora. As for Kidd's magnetism, he is crushing Big Mom with all that metal. They aren't just weights on her back; they are actively compressing against her, trying to crush her with he pressure of all that metal.

Kizaru isn't limited to lightspeed and even if he were dodging multiple FTL+ punches is different from dodging an aerial bombardment of thousands upon thousands of lasers at once.

10. Well yeah he is not limited to light speed, that's been my argument all this time! However, we haven't seen anything that would put him significantly faster than say Marco who tagged him. You know the same Marco struggling to keep both King and Queen down. When you scale Marco around to the people in Wano, you get an idea of where Kizaru might land on the power scale and it is no way fast enough to blitz Kaido.

Akainu vs Aokiji punk hazard which alters the climate. Aokiji casually makes an "continent of ice." Fujitora lifts all of Dressrosa's rubble easily and can send meteors to earth faster than the eye of ceasar clown can see. Kizaru overdoing it a bit drops a mangrove tree with ease. Akainu is said to find the one piece with one year of serialization. Akainu has a devil with one of the highest offensive powers. The marines under Akainu's rule are stronger than they have ever been that means the Navy is stronger than when Garp, Sengoku, and Kong were at there primes. People call the admirals and yonkos the peak of power. And yet you tell me that the admirals aren't up to par to people like luffy and the yonko's... yikes...

11. Yes, they altered Punk Hazard and it was probably their DF awakening ability. Again, Kaido lifts more than Fujitora -- at least at the moment.

The rest is just hype about Akainu. Garp and Sengoku did plenty fine and they were dealing with monsters far beyond what Akainu currently has to deal with. People use to call the Admirals the peak of power. After the Greenbull chapter, coupled with Akainu's failure at Marinford against a sick, weakened Whitebeard with barely functioning Haki. Not to mention Kizaru getting stopped by Marco and pinned down by other Commanders...

You can clearly see the Admirals are not the creme of the crop and there is probably some other larger, bigger bad above them in the Marines that we haven't seen yet.

Jozu lost an arm, marco is mentally scarred for life, the entirety of Whitebeards crew and whitebeard along with crocodile, ivankov, inazuma, and Jimbei couldn't keep Akainu from scarring luffy. Akainu as I have said many of times WALKED through all of these people and left the war with no lasting damage.

12. Jozu's lost arm got retcon. Marco was not mentally scared and got handicapped in that fight cause PIS happens. Crocodile, Ivankov, Inazuma and Jimbei are nothing to Yonko Commanders and therefore would be nothing to Admirals. Now Akainu not being stopped Whitebeard's crew is impressive, but he did get put down by Whitebeard for a hot minute so....

Marco did nothing to K/Q and the feat you mention is a speed feat not a strength feat so Big Mom would scale to Marco's feat as she only holds marco she doesn't blitz him (I'm not say she couldn't I'm just saying your scaling doesn't work).

13. I did not say she blitz him, just that he couldn't break out of her grasp despite being physically strong enough to bat around King and Queen.

Marco is stronger than WCI Luffy if not at least comparable and Marco was walked through by the admirals in marineford.

14. This one was a dumb point to bring up lol. I was too sleepy when I was typing this shit up.

You know the marines have a thing called the law they have to follow as such they will almost always go for the capture when they meet a pirate but pirates they don't have such a restriction as such they are inherently more dangerous. So to say that a yonko commander who fears their captain but doesn't fear an admiral must means that the admiral must be less dangerous than the yonko ignores the fact that the pirates don't have a code to follow while the marines do.

That is why Doflamingo doesn't care for the marines but does care about Kaido since kaido doesn't have morals and wouldn't just capture him he would kill him. And also Doflamingo doesn't fear the world government since Doflamingo has sway over mariejois due to his knowledge. So what i'm saying is that of course pirates are going to be fearsome because they have no rule they are chaos but the Navy/World Gov't has laws and order as such they can be exploited since they have rules they have to follow.

15. Wut? If anything the entirety of One Piece has been telling us the opposite. How the Marines are equally dangerous to pirates if not more so because a Pirate doesn't want to, nor have to fight to the death against a strong opponent. They can just run and not bothered with it. Meanwhile the Marines are hell bent on getting the pirates even if it means killing them. Akainu is the one pushing this mentality, he did so at Marineford.

Doffy is more afraid of Kaido because he had bought out the marines, they were on his side and he was a warlord. He was in their good graces and they are easy to pacify. Kaido however is a whole other beast and as he saw in Marineford a single Yonko can do serious damage to the Marines if motivated enough. Not to mention Doffy was the one directly supply Kaido with weapons and smiles, so he is fully away of how capable Kaido and his forces are and given their scorch earth policy, he doesn't want to get in the way of that.

The marines are NOT inherently good people. They are just people.

Heavily injured... it was implied they fought straight up and it was a week past after they got defeated... Greenbull didn't just "take out two Yonko commanders" he literally no diffed them and said he would be disgraced if he an admiral were to lose to mere yonko commanders. Stop the downplay sure you can say they weren't at there best but to say he "snuck up on them" and that they were "heavily injured' is just disrespectful.

16. There is nothing implying they were full healed up nor that Greenbull took them out effortlessly. We just see the end of the fight, that's all. Even Luffy and the others were still recovering from their injures so it is safe to assume King and Queen were as well.

@plaguedocter: Here is what I don't understand.

If you agree that Luffy is already a high yonkou level, not far below Kaido who's at the top of a yonkou tier, and if you agree that Luffy will continue getting stronger, and when he reaches the PK level he will be much stronger than he's now, then how can he still be a yonkou tier?

It is a safe bet that whomever is the opponent Luffy will have to fight for the title of a PK (probably Black Beard), his opponent will become so powerful that it will seem impossible for Luffy to win. And then Luffy will have to find a way to surpass him.

It's a formula that has been played out over and over again

Admiral downplay needs to stop

Admirals stomp here

Adding Aokijo just gets Kaido murdered that much quicker lmao.

@kajin_style: I'll try to keep it brief since there wasn't much to respond to as before.

1. As for the yamato slander I'll say this I agree Kaido was getting the best of her but yamato still was able to knock kaido around and even bash his head into the dirt and cancel a bolo breath. So I guess all I wanted to say is that don't be so quick to scoff at yamato as even though her showings are small I think the fact that she could hold out against a serious Kaido speaks volumes to her capability's.

2. Now for the Greenbull slander you say he isn't surprised but in fact he looked to be "paralyzed and in pain" then why did he say "who was that" as he was being hit by a conqueror's haki blast. On a side note Momo and Luffy when they first heard zunesha winced and were shocked/confused when a voice entered their head when it was in fact due to the voice of all things and when we see shanks emit his haki he speaks to Greenbull seemingly directly to Greenbull's head as no one else heard it also akin to the voice of all things. But that's my headcanon with shanks having voice of all things (or at least knowing about it). But on topic we also have to acknowledge that Greenbull wasn't wincing just because it was normal conqueror's as shanks communicated to Greenbull from a distance and that Greenbull said he wouldn't fight shanks' crew at least not yet.

Film Red isn't fully canon as in only uta's information is canon and shanks' information is canon but other than that I think everything else is noncanon.

3. I think you barely letting the the Admirals Ryou but just giving Garp Conqueror's Coating shows a disconnect with how you view the marines as you seem to only give Garp Conquerors and not someone like Akainu who is stronger than Garp and Sengoku through not only portrayal and scaling. But whatever even if you say they don't have any advanced Haki the admirals most likely all have awakened devil fruits so I guess it evens out?

4. As for Kaido being awakened I actually don't think he is and I think the place for a yonko with an awakened devil fruit is going to be Blackbeard (and maybe Big Mom) since having all his devil fruits be awakened (possibly 3 devil fruits who knows) would be very interesting and would be a change from shanks who is all haki.

5. As for the "but all the admirals went to marineford" but like why wouldn't they. They don't want marineford to be destroyed and they must obey to the fleet admiral. As for the admirals having trouble with whitebeards crew that is hilarious as we have been shown repeatedly that yonko crews are pretty weak when compared to an admiral. As for the admirals "barely could get past the commanders to get a shot in at Whitebeard" when we literally know that right off the bat Aokiji clashed with whitebeard then kizaru tried to laser him then later akainu traded blows with whitebeard. As for whitebeard supposedly "wrecking the admirals" I have to say you must (respectfully) lack reading comprehension as during marineford Whitebeard was only ever taking L's while the admirals were all essentially fine. Aokiji froze the tidal wave, froze the bay, clashed with whitebeard leaving without even being hurt then when he "fought" with jozu all it took wass one lapse in judgement and juzo was almost oneshotted. Kizaru left that war clean he wasn't even hurt and kizaru wrecked marco (I don't care if you say marco had cuffs on he still woulda lost easily if it weren't for his fruit), kizaru also sniped many people, toyed with whitebeard (stood atop his naginata and lasered him casually), made benn beckman look like a chump as Ben just watched Kizaru bombard the submarine. Then for Akainu yikes that guy ran the Marineford gauntlet and came out a champ with ease as Akainu was walking through the whitebeard crew. Not to mention akainu essentially oneshotted whitebeard and now if anyone says "but whitebeard wrecked him" I'll say this Akainu wasn't even knocked out he wasn't even incapacitated, in fact he wasn't even that heavily hurt, the only reason why you don't see akainu for literally one chapter is because Whitebeard made a ravine beneath him and dropped him in. Even after getting dropped into a ravine Akainu melts a tunnel underground and circles arounds the pirate forces to pop up right in front of jimbei who at the time was carrying luffy.

As for the "if the admirals were so power why didn't they..." type of thing I'll say this messing with the established powers upsets the world like look right now Whitebeards death inspired millions of pirates, kaido/big moms defeat upset the entire world in fact I feel like the reason the navy doesn't actively fight the yonkos is because doing so would cause more problems then it would solve. And then again the admirals have jobs to do and they have people they are subservient to and the yonko's aren't the only pirates in the world to be dealt with.

6. As for if I think Big Mom or Kaido is dead I actually think Big mom is alive but either way I feel like Kaido after getting defeated by Joyboy would rather choose death as his end rather than surviving. As for Big mom surviving I actually think that Big Mom called in her favor from when she gave Kaido the Uo Uo no Mi Model; Seiryu devil fruit and requested Kaido's soul to make a homie while they were in the magma (but that is pure headcanon on my part but I would like to see more of big mom like say in elbaf).

7. Kaido lifts an island with his flame clouds. While Fujitora is lifting the entirety of dressrosa's rumble with ease which puts him way above island especially when Dressrosa is bigger than Australia (Viola has a 4000km radius of clairvoyance but didn't know what was happening on greenbit). Anyways an entire continents surface rubble along with mountains being casually lifted is in my eyes a WAY better feat than lifting an island.

8. Yeah I don't think Kizaru is limited to just being lightspeed but as I said before Kaido dodging a couple FTL+ punches from luffy doesn't mean he has the capacity to be able to avoid an aerial bombarment of lasers from some one like kizaru who also probably has awakened his devil fruit. Also weirdly enough Kizaru in a way scales above himself as in Kizaru fights people who can intercept/dodge his lasers but also can't actually keep up with him and therefore Kizaru scales above his own lasers. But then again Lightspeed is not the strongest as the vinsmokes learned that quick. But then you also have kizaru saying he'll stop Kaido and Big Mom from meeting and such so yeah Kizaru is one heck of a wild card at least for me but all I know is he is very powerful.

9. Honestly I have no clue how you got that Marines are more dangerous than pirates when their are alot and I mean a lot of good and not corrupt marine out there as opposed to pirates. The only good groups of pirates are literally just the Strawhats, Roger Pirates, and Whitebeard Pirates and the maybe the Heart Pirates and a few others and that's it as the bad pirates (as in normal pirates) outnumber the good like 10 to 1.

10. As for Greenbull vs K/Q he says it would be a disgrace to lose to yonko commanders and we even see Greenbull stomping on top of them while drink their booze with no damage on him.

@mortein: Sorry for the confusion hope this clears it up.

1) "If you agree that Luffy is already a high yonkou level, not far below Kaido who's at the top of a yonkou tier, and if you agree that Luffy will continue getting stronger, and when he reaches the PK level he will be much stronger than he's now, then how can he still be a yonkou tier?"

It's not that I don't think there is a tier above Yonko I just don't think that tier would be called the Pirate king tier since for me Kaido and Roger/Primebeard/Prime Garp/Prime Sengoku are all relative to each other and to say that Roger is a WHOLE tier above Kaido to me is crazy. I'll say this again I'm not against there being a tier above yonko I just don't think that the tier above yonko would be called the Pirate King tier. But say if I were to name the tier above yonko it would be called something like Myth/Legend Tier and the people who would occupy that tier would be Rocks D. Xebec, Ryuma Shimotsuki, EoS Blackbeard, EoS Luffy, maybe Dragon? and possibly Imu but for me I would make another tier above the Myth/Legend tier and put Imu there.

Shanks is Shanks.

Team wins

@kajin_style: this aint the hill to do die on bru just saiyan

Just wait until Luffy mets up with an Admiral and either clowns them or they are scared shitless to fight him cause of his Conqueror's Haki.

@kajin_style: Fax. It'll happen soon and the Admiral fanboys will cope, like they did when Greenbulll, Fujitora, and Kizaru were scared of Shanks.

The Yonkos and Admirals are in completely different weight classes

The admirals would probably have an extreme diff fight against Katakuri lmao

@kajin_style: Cant you wait till admirals get more feats? like jee if that were the case then the only person left to challenge luffy is blackbeard basically saying fuck the navy

@kajin_style: Akainu is prolly the only admiral who beats luffy I'll give you that