Juubito vs Toneri

• Random Encounter
• No knowledge
• Bloodlusted
• Win by death or KO
• Toneri starts in TCM
• Win by death or KO
• Fight takes place on the moon

Toneri crushes him under foot.

Also, this has been done, I'm more than sure.

I checked. Only the base Toneri vs Juubito has been done.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/toneri-vs-juubito-1876353/

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/obito-vs-toneri-1691456/

You didn't check hard enough.

Neither of those those up on the search

Google, my guy.

That's what I used, bud

Did you use the comicvine results? Even if you didn't, there were 3, including this one, on the front page.

Toneri stomps

Toneri.

Toneri low diff

Toneri but not really a stomp or anything even when juubito was losing to plot he has country level feats.

With scaling and common logic, Juubito wins this.

Sage Kcm Naruto was capable of beating Toneri, but Sage Bijuu Mode Naruto could hardly do anything against Juubito.

Toneri does have much better feats, but you can argue that Juubito was never really was trying to show off and did most of his feats with the intention of minimizing destruction for the rest of the world unlike Toneri.

Naruto's Kyuubi Chakra mode surpassing his full on Bijuu Mode makes almost no sense. The Kyuubi is an eternal being. It's chakra shouldn't just suddenly get stronger due to training or something like that. And though the argument can be made that Naruto simply fights better and more efficiently now, that shouldn't breech such a ginormous gap in raw power.

Assuming he doesn't job, Juubito could actually put up a fight. He's lose, though.

@marc_55:

This is misleading, as it ignores context of The Last Naruto being >>> any Naruto before him.

Where is that stated?

Where is that even implied?

Maybe he's a little stronger since he's older during The Last, but we've been led to believe things were relatively peaceful within the Two years and since Naruto no longer has a battle-focused goal, the reasons for him to train are much lower as well.

And even if Naruto is much stronger, it's not his own power he'd be using in Kcm. It would be Kurama's. And Kurama, as an eternal, could not have grown stronger by training.

You're saying I'm being misleading, but your only retort is to state an assumption, which doesn't even make much logical sense, as fact.

You're ignoring Six Paths chakra

He very specifically wasn't using the 6 Path power during the last. You can see that due to the coloring around Naruto's eyes.

Kurama being 100%

The Kurama who was off fighting elsewhere during the Last... Kurama being 100% shouldn't have mattered in the slightest if the Kcm Chakra is the only thing Naruto is using.

and him just having better feats.

That is the singular relevant point. Technically "The Last" Naruto has better feats, but it's not like we saw War arc Naruto try to deflect a moon-splitting laser or anything, so there is no direct comparison.

Certainly if we scale generously off of the Juubi, Juubito can also be considered Moonsplitting-level strong anyway.

@gnomishness: Naruto was shown capable of things he couldn't dream of in The War, yet you think he stopped training? How is that remotely logical?

I said Six Paths Chakra, which is boosst to Naruto's base, not Six Paths SM. How can we tell? There's tanking his country level chakra being detonated on him. That same base chakra being far from country level prior to SPC. None of Naruto feats against Obito imply he could tank or overpower a moon splitting beam. In fact, they show the direct opposite, as he's consistently harmed by much less.

As for Obito, scaling off the Jubi, which is unnecessary as he has better feats, wouldn't jump him up to moon level. Obito is consistently country - multi country level. That's enough to compete with Toneri's own country level feats, but it's still not enough for his moon level feats. Especially when considering the ease Toneri pulls them off with, spamming his moon splitter.

I'd say, all things considered, Toneri is the decisive winner here.

@marc_55:

Naruto was shown capable of things he couldn't dream of in The War, yet you think he stopped training?

I think, because of his comparative lack of motivation, he didn't train as heavily as during the three years of the pre-shippuden timeskip where training was literally his entire purpose.

Thus, I don't think his skills would have progressed very far at all, based on the example we've been given.

How is that remotely logical?

He has better things to do with his time now as a Hokage candidate? I mean, The Last Naruto never even needed to go all out, and he was still stronger then a potentially world-destroying threat. It's not like he would have needed more strength.

I said Six Paths Chakra, which is boosst to Naruto's base,

Except it isn't a boost to his base form. There is no evidence that it is.

How can we tell? There's tanking his country level chakra being detonated on him.

He was in Six Paths Sage Mode when he did that, which we can see from the eyes. He hadn't activated the cloak yet, but the consensus for what determined if 6 paths Sage Mode was activated is generally agreed to be the eyes.

None of Naruto feats against Obito imply he could tank or overpower a moon splitting beam.

The second form Juubi could spam out small-country busters.

The third form Juubi, who was massively more powerful, had an attack which took an age to charge. At the time people thought that it must be continent level. That would be the logical strength. They only changed their opinion after The Madara fight ended and there still weren't any feats which technically suggested that level of power, and the vs community pressured them into dropping the concept of that power level.

Yet if the Third form Juubi is continent level, Juubito is a surface-buster. Something which fits with his ability to activate the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

You need more then surface-busting power to destroy the moon, but you need much less then that to split it apart as Toneri did.

In fact, they show the direct opposite, as he's consistently harmed by much less.

I mean, that could just be DBZ syndrome, where multi-planet level guys get hurt by crashing into the ground and only making a tiny crater.

@gnomishness: Did you just say Six paths mode isn't a boost to Naruto's base form or do I need to get my eyes checked?

@god_vulcan:

Did you just say Six paths mode isn't a boost to Naruto's base form or do I need to get my eyes checked?

When it's activated, 6P sage Mode is certainly a boost. He had it activated continuously against Madara and Kaguya.

Hagoromo's mark on Naruto's hand actually is a power-up to his base form (though that much is present against neither Juubito nor Toneri)

But you see, 6P Sage Mode is clearly not activated in The Last. So there is no boost there. Not like a boost to Naruto's Base Form should matter anyway, due to Kcm not even using that chakra in exchange of assessing the Nine-tails chakra exclusively. ---->

Sorry I have to play the devil's advocate to your personal certainty, but most of what you guys are agreeing on here seems wrong to me.

@gnomishness: Ohhhh, ok that makes sense, just wanted to make sure I wasn't losing my mind first.

@gnomishness: I thought you had a better understanding of the series than this, guess not.

@marc_55: @god_vulcan:

Ah. Sorry guys. Edited my comment. Don't think really portrayed what I wanted to say.

@marc_55:

I thought you had a better understanding of the series than this, guess not.

Or maybe you're wrong? That is the other possible conclusion you could reach from this.

Even if I'm not right, and The Last Sage Kcm Naruto really is stronger the War arc Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto + Sasuke + Edo Hokage + entire Ninja Alliance (though God only knows why that would be) ultimately I'm playing devil's advocate here. If someone doesn't play devil's advocate once in a while, how will you be able to question your concept of the truth?

I could be wrong, but my years of debating this are pretty concrete. The Last Naruto is stronger than them, just like Obito was. I'd love to go in depth with you, but I lack a proper platform to respond.

Two misguided fools going head to head. I like it.

Not entirely sure who would win. I feel like Toneri has greater firepower with his moon-slicer. His ability to siphon off the enemy's chakra would also come in handy.

@the_wspanialy: Toneri wins and what’s the deal using Dragonballs to revive these old threads ?

Toneri, easy.

Could go either way, but I would lean Toneri due to better feats.

Toneri ultimately. Should have a decisive speed advantage and better DC feats

Toneri stomps

Toneri stomps

Naruto usaba el modo kurama mas el modo sabio de los sapos,digo esto por los bigotes se padecen a cuando usa todo el poder del zorro,diria que seria una dura pelea pero puede ir de cualquier lado.

Obito.

Going with Toneri. I feel like both their TSB should counter each other, with Obito having the slight edge due to regeneration. But I feel like Toneri’s chakra absorption + Golden Wheel explosion would really defeat Obito, who has a far less powerful Juubi than Madara, since Madara has Half of 9 Tails and 8 Tails, while Obito only had tiny pieces of 9 and 8 Tails chakra.

Keeping up with Mid God Tiers like Toneri would mean Naruto got a huge boost after being revived from Hagoromo. Since before his death his BSM against Obito was fodder to Obito. Now fast forward post Death and 2 years, and his BSM at only 50% is stronger than Toneri who’s stronger than Obito. And he basically only fought Toneri with Half of 9 Tails like he did against Obito in war since back then Naruto only had Yang Kurama. But now that he has both Yin and Yang he can let half of Kurama out and use other half to fight like the entire war.

Toneri

Juubito high diff. Similar firepower and arsenal but greater durability. And he still has Sharingan and Rinnegan. Toneri's chakra absorption wouldn't work on Juubito who has Six Paths Chakra.

Kurama was complete in The Last but Naruto beat Toneri without using Kurama Avatar. Meanwhile Juubito fought both Naruto and Sasuke full power and only lost due to plot and outside help.

I'd lean towards Juubito. Toneri has pull off attacks of a greater scale but he is less versatile and can't take a hit as well as Juubito.

Juubito high diff.

Mismatch, Toneri wins.

Obito wins with mid-to high Diff.

I say mid diff it really is trying to end the fight early. 50% Kurama was shooting a TBB was able to affect a stronger Toneri...and Obito has Juubi who is>>>>>>>>any Version of 1-9 tails together.

As we saw Toneri is glass Cannon; a good punch would put him down. Toneri split the moon...with an energy beam attack that he extended to the length of the moon. can we 100% with confidence say that Obito couldn't do the same thing if he extended a beam attack that long? I think not.

Mismatch, Juubito is invincible to Toneri.
Absolutely no proof of Toneri having senjutsu or anti-ninjutsu, only raw chakra power which is nothing to Juubito.

Toneri stomps

Toneri is too fast

People ignore that part...in the manga where Obito was fighting Tobirama, BSM Naruto, BM Minato, Hiruzen, fought Hashirama, EMS Sasuke, and the Konaha 11 or at least 9.

That was against Obito who got Talked no Jutsu by Naruto and was Regretting his decisions he made.

Toneri only fought Naruto and was beaten by him in BSM. Sure we can assume Naruto is stronger in the Last because he is older...but he isn't massively more powerful like people tend to wank him to be.

the only thing Naruto gained at the end was extra half of the 9 tails which wouldn't be enough to bridge the gap that Obito had on them.

I agree Obito wins I am more so in the 7/10 for Obito

Toneri can really just drain him.

Juubito wins this.