Juubito vs Alive Rinnegan Madara
Juubito can just trap Madara inside barrier and Nuke it with TBB’s
Not to mention flight advantage and spamming
There’s a colossal gap between 10 tails jinchuriki and Sm Hashirama and BSM Naruto lv
Yes Madara has SM influenced Senjutsu at this point which is kryptonite for Juubi Jins but he’s never shown using it with Susanoo like cloaking it with sage energy like Sasuke and even BSM Naruto and EMS Sasuke with Senjutsu Were still fodder to juubi Obito
It took Obito Will to be broken and him weakened, Kurama fused Susanoo + all the allied shinobi helping Naruto pull out ten tails chakra from Obito
So nobody scales to ten tails till absorption, 8 gates, and Hagoromo boosts
The outcome really depends on how Perfect Susano'o fares against Truth-Seeking Spheres. Naruto and Sasuke with weaker avatars were able to almost match Obito, so Madara with a superior one should match, if not best him. Since he has Sage Mode, all of his techniques will be amplified and effective. If he can beat down Obito, he wins through extraction or sealing. Otherwise, Obito drags him around until he dies.
The barrier argument makes no sense in my opinion. Madara may be able to swap with Limbo to escape it. If not, he should still be able to tank it. Obito was unscathed after the ordeal, whereas we've been shown that his Truth-Seeking Spheres were broken by weaker attacks from Naruto and Sasuke. Furthermore, Naruto and Gyuuki have been shown to tank a Tailed Beast Bomb from the Ten-Tails head on. Madara's Perfect Susano'o enhanced with Sage Mode should be fine since the attacks are aimed at the borders and not meant to induce a direct hit, which is why Obito survived.
@hypervoid: Madara only chance here is Senjutsu Susanoo sword Slash attacks to break Obito Tsb since he can’t blitz him, BUT he has never shown cloaking his PS with it since he had just obtained sage mode And should be a novice with it.. At best he’s shown using mokuton which won’t work on ten tails jinchuriki who have TSB. And Obito just being physically stronger, faster, has his chakra arm thingys, and Madara has no answer for nunoboku sword either which would destroy a nice amount of planet
So Nunoboko Sword will slice madara PS into pieces and kill Madara on accident
BSM Naruto and EMS Susanoo Sasuke were far outclassed by Juubito. They were not on his level. He was dodging their attacks trying to push Naruto to his limit to see how far his will would go.
Even before the whole Juubi Jin absorption thing Naruto sensed how strong Juubi was while he was in sage mode and it completely dwarfed his sage mode and half kuramas energy. Even Full Kurama or BSM wouldn’t close that gap. Adding sage mode is like adding kryptonite because Senjutsu is ten tails weakness.
@desmondisback: that's not a fair comparison. He didn't know what naruto and sasuke were now capable of and the still couldn't seal him.
With obito he knew all about the abilities of a juubi jin and saw him in action yet was still sure he could handle him.
Obito was also defeated by BSM Naruto and sage enhanced sasuke, both of whom should be weaker than SM madara.
I don't think Madara being incompatible with Sage chakra is a valid argument. He stated himself it was an easy power to master and had no trouble becoming accustom to it. Furthermore, Madara is actually using Sage Mode, unlike Sasuke who needed Juugo's chakra, so it is going to be natural for him whereas Sasuke needed to mend it to fit his Susano'o. The naturalness is even more assured since the Sage chakra is clearly reacting to Hashirama's cells, which is the only reason why he is able to use Sage Mode. His entire plan and confidence came from the fact that he knew he would rely on Hashirama's Sage chakra to beat Obito. To assume he couldn't use it properly makes no real sense.
I don't know why you think Madara is going to be outclassed. It's true that as a host, Obito has all the physical advantages, but that is not everything in Naruto. Despite being better than the duo, he was still pressured to block their attacks in some instances instead of evade. This is especially true once they adapted to his speed, and throughout the fight he looked visibly annoyed, not just like he was toying with them bidding time to test Naruto. The fight was only a couple panels short, but the fact is that he was pressured and only got one hit in, that being the last one knocking them down. It isn't at all like the exaggerated pretense you made it out to be. Madara has both Sage Mode and the Sharingan/Rinnegan. He should have an easier time adapting, and it's obvious he outclasses either Naruto or Sasuke individually in physicals at that point. With his superior avatar too, that dwarfs Obito's shown usage of the Truth-Seeking Spheres (perhaps due to it's range limit), and the duo's avatars, it should most definitely be an easier fight for him, and not some curbstomp for Obito.
You do have a point with the Nunoboko Sword though, as I forgot about it. If it does indeed live up to the hype, Madara won't be able to counter it and will most definitely lose once it's drawn. He would have known about the rumor too though, and since he was confident in his ability to win this battle, and if it is actually just the peak usage of the Truth-Seeking Spheres, offering no real advantage except combining multiple into one attack, then Madara should be able to break or counter it since the duo did.
@hypervoid: That’s kind of Headcanon though To say Madara can cloak his Susanoo with Senjutsu when he’s never done it. Sasuke could naturally adapt with juugo senjutsu because he used to have the cursed mark and cursed marks are watered down versions of sage mode
Having Hashirama cells doesn’t mean madara experienced sage mode before. I mean he could probably get the hang of it midst battle as he is a fighting genius after all but having Senjutsu cloaked Susanoo won’t necessarily give him the win. Even if we wanted to say he could use it.
He would have to worry about getting trapped in a barrier and defending against Obito 4 TBB, unless there is feats of Madara physicals being on lv of crashing the red barrier Obito can make which tanked his TBB’s
Honestly the stat gap is too wide
Obito shit on 2 guys who were arguably on this Madara lv
And if TBB barrier trap fails, which it won’t ...then Nunoboku Sword will take care of rest and break Madara Susanoo and end his career early
Madara overconfidence is his undoing
There are more indicators proving it's possible than otherwise though, so it seems more your head canon to deny it. Madara's entire plan rode on it. Madara stated it was easy to handle. He did not mutate like Pain just from absorbing the chakra. He was using perfect Sage Mode, meaning not only does he have more proficiency than Jiraiya (due to Hashirama's cells being used to Save Mode), but Sage chakra is naturally produced for him and naturally enters his techniques. He was literally using Sage Mode to sense his opponents without eyes. He isn't just using Sage chakra like Sasuke. He actually has Sage Mode. What Sage Mode user do you know that doesn't have Sage chakra embedded into their techniques?
Madara is clearly above the two teens here. He killed both of them with one eye, and I'm sure he could do it with both eyes, without having to use Limbo. I've already stated how he counters the barrier and Tailed Beast Bombs. You'll have to refer to my first post.
It seems like a conditional win to me. If the Nunoboko Sword is truly powered by will, Obito wins. If not, Madara wins.
@hypervoid: dude I already gave you nice explanations on why Obito stomps
nothing you said changes
Obito snipes with tsbs
Obito is faster
Obito is physically stronger
Obito has trap shield For Madara that can tank his 4 TBB’s
Obito has Tsb shield to protect himself
Obito has nunoboko sword
Madara loses there’s no proof he will last as long you say you’re putting this man on a pedestal he never was at Till Juubi Jin feats disprove your claims
Ridiculous. Minato, Lee, Obito, and Kakashi were reacting to Truth-Seeking Spheres. Nobody is getting sniped here, especially since Madara knows what it is and what it can do.
Obito having a physical advantage means nothing. The gap didn't stop him from being cornered by Naruto and Sasuke and it isn't going to stop him from being cornered by the superior Madara. He isn't stupid enough to fight him in hand-to-hand.
Barrier trap is irrelevant until you counter what I've said posts ago.
His shield means what exactly? It's not invincible to Madara. Saying that is no different than saying Madara has Susano'o. A useless statement with no substance.
@hypervoid: Lee never reacted to Juubi Obito
Juubi Obito tagged KCM Minato while he was using FTG
Kakashi never reacted to Juubi Obito
Madara 1/2 Rinnegan doesn’t have speed feats better than BSM Naruto who Juubi Obito was faster than and broke his BSM Kurama Avatar while BM Avatar could take a off guard physical blow from limbo 1/2 Rinnegan Madara
Juubi Obito TSB shield for defense is faster than Madara attacks and he has no Senjutsu Susanoo cloak to even attempt to and even if he could there’s no proof he could break it considering the large stat gap
His shield mind as well be since Madara has no feats of showing the lv of breaking it
Madara isn’t even breaking Obito shield trap and TBB Spam
Youre just wanking Madara
Madara might have a chance if he has both rinnegan, but with a single rinnegan?? Nope gonna go with juubito 9/10, if madara has both rinnegans though, it'll be 50/50, juubito clearly has the edge in almost everything, like DC, speed, regeneration, durability etc but madara wields a power that works perfectly on juubito not to mention he has more knowledge about the juubi than anyone on the battlefield except BZ plus and he has stronger will than obito, so if they were to clash between a senjutsu enhanced PS blade and the sword of nunoboku, Madara might come out on top.
Though i believe madara needs both eyes to compete.
Your first three statements are extremely irrelevant. You don't know what we're even arguing. I never said they reacted Obito. I said they reacted to the sniping of Truth-Seeking Spheres. And they did. Madara doesn't get sniped.
Madara doesn't need such speed feats. Sasuke is slower than Naruto but still reacted and cornered Obito. With his eyes and Sage Mode, both of the duo's power combined, along with his Six Paths chakra amp, he scales above them and should have no problem reacting. That's obvious.
Stop it. A toad was able to disintegrate the Truth-Seeking Spheres' defense. If Naruto and Sasuke can break them, then Madara with a Perfect Susano'o powered by his Sage chakra and Six Paths chakra definitely breaks it. Not only is his base avatar stronger than theirs but his buffs are better too. I couldn't imagine being retarded enough to think his attacks would be weaker.
Your scans don't show much relevance. Obito's range is limited. Perfect Susano'o dwarfs both of the avatars he grabbed in size and power. What is Obito going to do? Grab his leg? Not to mention, Perfect Susano'o can fly, too. Obito isn't going to have the ease of just dragging him around.
Don't know why you keep bringing up the possibility of him not being able to use senjutsu. Imagine acknowledging Kakashi can use Black Raikiri against Kaguya despite being weak and having no experience with Sage chakra but Madara, who has Sage Mode mastered, can't do the same.
@hypervoid: You can’t seriously think Madara wins
Too much AP gap
Too much durability gap
you keeping bringing up lee and Kakashi reacting to Tsb lol
no frog spit only bypass Tsb cus it was Senjutsu spit and it didn’t completely dissolve
Madara has no Senjutsu Susanoo attacks or feats with Senjutsu
Juubito is faster
He blitz KCM Minato and tagged him and removed his arm while he was using FTG
Tobirama could react to 1/2 Rinnegan SM Madara
Uncontrolled juubi blitzed tobirama earlier
Controlled Juubi Obito is faster and stronger and obviously smarter than his uncontrolled form
Yes EMS Sasuke reacted to uncontrolled Juubi form Obito but he sAw Obito about to launch Tsb + he was closer to Naruto than Obito was and his Susanoo claw can strech
This what will happen to madara Susanoo
Notice how Obito Tsb completely eats through Sasuke susanoo
As I said before Madara has no answer to nunoboku sword which is a Tsb sword with good range that can slice Madara and his Susanoo like butter unless you are going to wank Madara PS Into being able to tank things he shouldn’t and hasn’t shown to like usual you are putting him on a pedestal he was never at tilll Juubi Jin
How is Madara breaking out of Obito barrier and tanking the 4 TBB nukes ?
How is Madara defending against nunoboku sword slash ?
How is Madara susanoo reacting to getting grabbed by Obito Tsb chakra arms which he can expand if need be ? and Obito just slams it to ground and breaks it like he did BSM naruto Kurama avatar who this Madara should be relative to ?
Obvious answer is he doesn’t
Juubi Jin Madara One that fought 8 gates would
stomp Juubi Obito Tho
Don't know why you keep bringing up reacting to hand-to-hand. Madara isn't foolish enough to fight Obito head on. He doesn't need similar physicals to win, just like Naruto and Sasuke didn't. Naruto and Sasuke, who are inferior to Madara, reacted with their avatars. That's all Madara needs.
The Nunoboko Sword is irrelevant. Stop bringing it up. Already said Obito wins if it is actually powered by hope. If it's not, Madara counters it just as he would any of Obito's other attacks.
Already answered how Madara responds to the barrier about 4 times now. Just repeated a debunked point.
The Truth-Seeking Spheres can only be controlled up to 70 meters. It isn't large enough to grab Perfect Susano'o, and since it can fly and will be free to attack if Obito just attempts to grab a leg or arm, Obito isn't slamming him and instead gets struck for being unable to move freely. Already said this and you haven't countered it. Just repeated a debunked point.
You used Obito erasing Sasuke's Susano'o as if it meant something. Obviously it's going to erase a regular Susano'o. That wouldn't happen to Sage Susano'o, as we've obviously been shown.
On that note, though, you're still ignorant of how Sage Mode works and think Madara can't use senjutsu. If that's the case, then there's no point in arguing with you. Obviously Madara will lose if he can't use a Sage Susano'o. The fact you're trying so hard to say it's not possible means you're scared because you know Madara wins if he does have it. Imagine asking me for feats of a Sage Susano'o but you don't provide feats of the Nunoboko Sword. It never cut anything. The only feat it has is being broken. What an unfair ground you debate on. You seem to be at a loss and are clinging to repeating arguments I've already debunked again. I won't be replying if you don't fix your hypocrisy.
Either walk away from this debate thinking he can't use senjutsu or actually try debating how Obito wins since Madara can.
@hypervoid: wait aren’t you the same kid that said V2 Jigen didn’t stomp Naruto and Sasuke ? Lol somebody get this salt bucket outta here he’s been talking nonsense with his Lil 50 forum posts every since he joined
Never seen so many wrong statements before someone hit 100 forum posts 😭
Already debunked barrier
Spamming Tailed Beast Bombs does nothing. Madara can fly.
Orb means nothing. It is not an absolute defense and was broken two times. Already said this.
Try harder. I've already countered all your points and you just keep repeating them as if that makes them any truer. The only attempt at debating you've done is for Obito being faster than some characters, a point I never rebutted nor is it relevant.
@hypervoid: Except you DIDNT debunk barrier
What physical feats does madara have to show he can break Obito barrier which withstood 4 of his TBB ??
What durability feats does Madara have that show he can tank 4 of juubito TBB ?
What feats does Madara have to say his Susanoo doesn’t get eaten through with a Tsb ?
What feats does Madara have in having faster speed When Tobirama could dodge his attack and Hashirama could stalemate his edo rinnegan version and hashi said even uncontrolled Juubito was stronger than him
What feats or proof you have Madara Susanoo won’t be broken and sliced like toast by nunoboku sword which Obito can easily turn his Tsb into
Again you’ve countered nothing
All you’ve done is dance around vital points and got your wild assessments broken
You wank Madara no matter what
And you said Jigen didn’t blitz Naruto and Sasuke
And Madara Beats Isshiki
Now you’re saying Madara before Juubi Jin beats Juubi Obito
You can’t sit up and tell me you don’t always put him on a high pedestal because he’s your fav
Madara fans are sometimes worst than DBZ movie 8 Broly fans
They think guy wins against all the series villains cus he’s the coolest villain 😭
Already debunked your barrier points. Once again, you're just repeating your own points while not acknowledging mine. Either counter what I said or just accept you can't read posts correctly. I've already touched on everything you just repeated.
Sasuke's weaker Susano'o didn't get destroyed or even cracked despite Obito crushing it with the Truth-Seeking Spheres' full strength. Madara's Perfect Susano'o doesn't get "eaten through."
Who said Madara was faster? You're confused buddy. All Madara needs is reaction speed. With his eyes and Sage Mode combined he has better sensing than either Naruto or Sasuke and they were able to corner Obito. How many times do I have to teach you this lesson, old man? Counter it or concede. Of course, there is no counter to that perfect logic. Besides, didn't Obito get tagged multiple times by Tobirama? Tobirama couldn't even touch Madara but Obito allowed him to touch him and get attacked by Naruto and Sasuke's combined attack.
You claim I keep dancing and making wild assumptions and yet you keep changing your points and dodging mine. Amusing.
@hypervoid: dude you have no points
you’re literally wanking Madara to a level he wasn’t at
AND DODGING how Madara deals with barrier + TBB + nunoboku sword you are dancing around the topic dodging it constantly but getting owned
V2 karma jigen in anime blitz multiple SPSM clones
V2 karma Jigen is physically stronger than SPSM Naruto and Sasuke
In anime and manga V2 Jigen physically broke through SPSM Kurama avatar and perfect Susanoo
So yes it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand V2 Jigen was stronger and faster than them in all aspects
So completely and utterly wrong. I've addressed the barrier points so long ago and told you this multiple times. Since you've dodged and failed to address my counters more than three times you just lose on this argument.
I've already addressed the Nunoboko Sword. You've once again failed to address my points.
@hypervoid: lol man you are super salty
you cant provide countsrs for them because (drum roll) you don’t have any
Your arguments are carried by your nolstagic love for madara which clouds your judgement as everyone who read Naruto should know the massive AP gap between the two. In fact Madara never surpassed Juubito until he absorbed the Juubi himself.
Again for final time you have shown zero proof of Madara or his Susanoo being physically capable of breaking juubito barrier which withstood 4 of juubito Tailed Beast Balls
Again for final time you have shown zero proof of madara defense being able to tank juubito 4 TBB
Again for final time you have shown zero proof that Madara limbo doesn’t get smacked
Did you forget Obito has Rinnegan and should be able to see limbo
Yeesh. You're really in denial, huh? You claim I can't provide counters but I did in my first two posts. You claim I forgot Obito can see Limbo but I never brought Limbo up as an offensive measure.
As I said, the argument is done. You're physically unfit to debate since you can't find my arguments or know what I'm talking about.
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