Juubi Madara, kaguya , hagormone, toneri, momoshiki vs yhawch , aizen , ichigo , haschwalth, yamamoto

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#451 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Based off evidence he had gotten previously. Which proves it was momoshiki.

It wasn't, because Sasuke is still talking about a big threat to the World. Momoshiki was pretty fodder.

Also, Greater threat=/= More power.

As we saw Base Naruto could slap Momoshiki. Base Naruto would get killed doing that to Kaguya and Madara.

Momoshiki was literally asking and looking for kaguya. When he found out she died then he was just gonna rule over earth.

that's Hypocritical of you to use the anime when you said it was an invalid argument to use. since you said it was lesser Canon. now, you are using it to debate after you said it wasn't a Valid.

In canon Momoshiki never asked About Kaguya. Since you wanted to use the anime, in the anime Momoshiki was pretty scared of Kaguay and thanking the people of that world for taking care of her for him.

Why would she make an army about someone she didnt fear? If she didnt fear them she would be confident in taking them on without the army.

Why would Momoshiki need Back up to confront Kaguya? since you are using the anime he had Both Kinishiki and Uraishiki as he's back to go look for Kaguya. If he was more powerful then her in his base form he wouldn't need all this backup.

The creator also wrote in that KID naruto could split his chakra 2000 times and not even care nor be weakened in the slightest. He did this on the first chapter aswell.

The momoshiki stuff is heavily implied, basically confirmed since we know he is the otsutsuki they sent and kaguya was preparing for them. And it was momoshiki.

Why are you talking about Part 1 Naruto? Naruto currently has never made that many Clones. and it stated in the manga that he split his power when he makes them.

this was Information we got later on it overrides his later stuff.

Its not the limit tho.

Sasuke DID tank it. He was able to keep up the susanno and was ready to fight much longer.

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She hit Sasuke Chakra points, he was only able to keep fighting because she let him take the Needles out of his arms.

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Its part of naruto's routine to train as long as he had time to, unless you can prove it changed before he became hokage.

You keep asking me to prove it and I did. Naruto getting knocked out by Country-level attack is proof that he is much weaker that he hasn't been training. The fact that a Sword being manipulated by Shin being able to stab naruto is proof that Naruto is weaker.

You mean they got off screened. And alot of things happened before madara came back after casting the I.T

We see naruto's clones stalemate the limbos, then they get off paneled by the limbos within about 2+ minutes. Plus we dont even know how the fight ended. They could've ran away from the clones. You saying they beat them is headcanon.

How is it a Statement if he Got off screened? that Defeats the purpose of your argument. you can't call it a stalemate when Naruto was one-shotted after we went off-screen. Naruto Shadows Clones only through one punch which was blocked by the Limbo Clones then later Naruto's Shadows clones gets one-shotted. nothing indicated it was a statement but your opinion.

That was base sharingan sasuke. EMS Sasuke>>>>>>3 tomoe sharingan.

Even tho he got one shotted? Kay, your logic makes alot of sense(sarcasm).

Sure it absorbed some of it. It also didnt absorb the sage mode from BSM naruto, so it was some of kcm2.

Faulty logic when RBSM Naruto has way better feats. Plus sasuke alone blitzed this same madara in half.

Point is Sasuke needed to use one of his best attacks to take out the Shadow clones of Naruto, where you think he was EMS+Rinnegan is irrelevant because Naruto wasn't even at full power either.

No, he didn't take some he literally took all of BSM Naruto's Chakra, shown on the panel when we see Naruto in BSM Running then later we see him in base form shriveled up.

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as you see Naruto is in BSM when the God Tree took him.

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Minato states that God Tree sucked up all his chakra.

As you see Naruto is no longer in BSM anymore on the left bottom hand of the Panel the God Tree took all of his BSM Chakra.

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When Naruto is Saved he is pretty much completely out of chakra to the point Tobirama couldn't even sense his chakra anymore.

God Tree took all of BSM Naruto Chakra+BM Minato Chakra. just taking BSM Naruto's chakra alone is More than Naruto adding half the 9 tails to his RSM When Madara can already tank base RSM Naruto's Punch with no trouble.

How can an illusion have power? That literally makes no sense. Sure, it can have an area it covered, but thats not a level of power.

It Being Genjutsu Is Irrelevant, it stills takes massive amounts of Chakra. If Genjutsu Didn't Require chakra then Itachi would have been able to spam his MS Tsukuyomi Jutsu with no Chakra Drawbacks from it.

That's Not How Things work in Naruto, there are 3 Types of Jutsu.Ninjutsu,Taijutsu, and Genjutsu.

Genjutsu (幻術, Literally meaning: Illusionary Techniques) is one of the main Jutsu categories which uses Chakra.

there right their that Genjutsu uses Chakra.

It doesn't matter that it Genjutsu because it is irrelevant, as long as it isn't Taijutus then it uses Chakra. It's planet level because he was able to cast the Jutsu on the entire planet like I already proved it take Chakra too do this Basic Tsukuyomi Genjutsu that Itachi uses is stated to be an S class Jutsu.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is many leagues above that. you are saying is that it not Planet level in Destructive Power which is irrelevant and not the point of the Jutsu because of it being an illusionary Jutsu, not Destructive Jutsu. My point is it still Requires Planet Level chakra to cast the Jutsu since he did this on the whole planet, not just one person.

Again how can a genjutsu have power?

Huh?

Teen naruto swaps hands with kaguya and even forces her to use rabbit form to save herself from the rasenshurikens. He even rips off her limbs casually. So Rabbit Form Kaguya>>>Teen Naruto>Pre rabbit form kaguya>>>>>>>madara. Yeah, naruto has way better feats.

it Requires Planet Level chakra to Cast The Jutsu, as I already proved. Genjutsu are not Destructive they are illusionary. it Still Falls under the category of chakra and is a Yin release. to Cast Genjutsu you still need a Crap ton of Chakra, and depending on how complex the Genjutsu is you drain you of all your chakra, it doesn't matter that it is Illusion, it still requires Chakra to use it. Itachi could barely do Tsukuyomi more than once, the only time he spammed his Jutsu was when he was Edo.

To cast I.T on the world requires planet level of chakra to do since you are sending them to an empty dimension that you control.

wrong, As I said Zetsu already stated every time she teleports them to another dimension it uses massive amounts of her Chakra. Kaguya soloed 1000 of NAruto clones while he was there. he could have ripped off her arms anytime why didn't he do it when they had their struggle? one 80 palms sent naruto flying back.

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stated she transported them to another dimension.

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both manga state the same thing that she Transported them together dimension which takes a massive amount of her chakra.

Zetsu says when she transforms dimensions, she was teleporting not transforming the dimension lol. Plus naruto can one shot his clones too without jutsu so not a good feat.

when Has naruto done this? he's never one-shotted his clones so that just headcanon from you.

The above states that she summoned them to another dimension which takes a massive amount of her chakra so Kaguya was weakened in that battle prior to her doing that she casually knocked Naruto back with one move. then she soloed his 1000s Clones easily.

Sure. Momoshiki stomps madara. He overpowered kurama avatar. Btw naruto without kurama avatar forces kaguya into rabbit form, same kaguya who is WAY above madara.

Momoshiki never actually fought the kages. That was kinshiki who got solo'd by them. I think you're getting confused.

Momoshiki>>>>madara

No, Madara casually stomps Momoshiki.

Kinishiki got Soloed by them as well, and Momoshiki ran from them.

Base Naruto is enough to kill Momoshiki. Not only that Boruto was powerful enough to knock Momoshiki off his feet.

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not only did it knock him down but it damages him as well since you can see the hole on his shoulders.

It wasn't, because Sasuke is still talking about a big threat to the World. Momoshiki was pretty fodder.

Also, Greater threat=/= More power.

As we saw Base Naruto could slap Momoshiki. Base Naruto would get killed doing that to Kaguya and Madara.

Sasuke is talking about the whole otsutsuki clan, who kaguya wasnt even preparing for.

Actually it does when kaguya has better hax than momoshiki.

Base naruto never even fought momoshiki lol, you're just lying again.

that's Hypocritical of you to use the anime when you said it was an invalid argument to use. since you said it was lesser Canon. now, you are using it to debate after you said it wasn't a Valid.

In canon Momoshiki never asked About Kaguya. Since you wanted to use the anime, in the anime Momoshiki was pretty scared of Kaguay and thanking the people of that world for taking care of her for him.

Its in the manga aswell, kinshiki even states "we found kaguya's world(Planet)" which implies they were looking for her.

Thanking someone for doing your job is way different from being afraid to do your job. That makes no sense at all. Him being confident to take over the place that beat kaguya proves this.

Why are you talking about Part 1 Naruto? Naruto currently has never made that many Clones. and it stated in the manga that he split his power when he makes them.

this was Information we got later on it overrides his later stuff.

Because its the same naruto? Lol. Naruto literally made 2k clones against kaguya. So going by your logic a weakened naruto is swapping hands and forcing kaguya to go rabbit form, so a full power naruto stomps madara.

Why? Naruto isnt effected at all by making clones.

She hit Sasuke Chakra points, he was only able to keep fighting because she let him take the Needles out of his arms.

She hit the hawk's vital points, she only got sasuke's arm. Plus i wasnt even talking about that part.

You keep asking me to prove it and I did. Naruto getting knocked out by Country-level attack is proof that he is much weaker that he hasn't been training. The fact that a Sword being manipulated by Shin being able to stab naruto is proof that Naruto is weaker.

The attack is actually nigh solar system since momoshiki>kaguya, planet level bare minimum. Sasuke's sword stabbing naruto isnt proof he got weaker, that sword would've stabbed naruto anytime, including his prime.

How is it a Statement if he Got off screened? that Defeats the purpose of your argument. you can't call it a stalemate when Naruto was one-shotted after we went off-screen. Naruto Shadows Clones only through one punch which was blocked by the Limbo Clones then later Naruto's Shadows clones gets one-shotted. nothing indicated it was a statement but your opinion.

Them getting one shotted is your headcanon, especially when they were tanking hits before that, we dont know how they got beat so you're using headcanon to suit your argument.

Point is Sasuke needed to use one of his best attacks to take out the Shadow clones of Naruto, where you think he was EMS+Rinnegan is irrelevant because Naruto wasn't even at full power either.

No, he didn't take some he literally took all of BSM Naruto's Chakra, shown on the panel when we see Naruto in BSM Running then later we see him in base form shriveled up.

That isnt one of his best attacks, not even close. Amaterasu is a fodder attack now.

It Being Genjutsu Is Irrelevant, it stills takes massive amounts of Chakra. If Genjutsu Didn't Require chakra then Itachi would have been able to spam his MS Tsukuyomi Jutsu with no Chakra Drawbacks from it.

That's Not How Things work in Naruto, there are 3 Types of Jutsu.Ninjutsu,Taijutsu, and Genjutsu.

Genjutsu (幻術, Literally meaning: Illusionary Techniques) is one of the main Jutsu categories which uses Chakra.

there right their that Genjutsu uses Chakra.

It doesn't matter that it Genjutsu because it is irrelevant, as long as it isn't Taijutus then it uses Chakra. It's planet level because he was able to cast the Jutsu on the entire planet like I already proved it take Chakra too do this Basic Tsukuyomi Genjutsu that Itachi uses is stated to be an S class Jutsu.

Infinite Tsukuyomi is many leagues above that. you are saying is that it not Planet level in Destructive Power which is irrelevant and not the point of the Jutsu because of it being an illusionary Jutsu, not Destructive Jutsu. My point is it still Requires Planet Level chakra to cast the Jutsu since he did this on the whole planet, not just one person.

Not really, it would just take chakra to cover the whole planet, way different from planet destroying chakra.

it Requires Planet Level chakra to Cast The Jutsu, as I already proved. Genjutsu are not Destructive they are illusionary. it Still Falls under the category of chakra and is a Yin release. to Cast Genjutsu you still need a Crap ton of Chakra, and depending on how complex the Genjutsu is you drain you of all your chakra, it doesn't matter that it is Illusion, it still requires Chakra to use it. Itachi could barely do Tsukuyomi more than once, the only time he spammed his Jutsu was when he was Edo.

To cast I.T on the world requires planet level of chakra to do since you are sending them to an empty dimension that you control.

wrong, As I said Zetsu already stated every time she teleports them to another dimension it uses massive amounts of her Chakra. Kaguya soloed 1000 of NAruto clones while he was there. he could have ripped off her arms anytime why didn't he do it when they had their struggle? one 80 palms sent naruto flying back.

You didnt prove anything, just proved it would take chakra that could cover the planet, not destroy it.

Zetsu states everytime she transforms dimensions, except she was teleporting not transforming anything. I dont know why naruto didnt do it then, he didnt even try, ask kishimoto that, later on we see he does do it tho.

when Has naruto done this? he's never one-shotted his clones so that just headcanon from you.

The above states that she summoned them to another dimension which takes a massive amount of her chakra so Kaguya was weakened in that battle prior to her doing that she casually knocked Naruto back with one move. then she soloed his 1000s Clones easily.

In part 1 when he fought against his clones.

Then naruto proceeds to swap hands with, rip off her limbs and force her into rabbit form. She also never transformed dimensions, she was teleporting.

No, Madara casually stomps Momoshiki.

Kinishiki got Soloed by them as well, and Momoshiki ran from them.

Base Naruto is enough to kill Momoshiki. Not only that Boruto was powerful enough to knock Momoshiki off his feet.

Momoshiki one shots madara.

Momoshiki ran from the kages, naruto and sasuke. Remember when madara ran from only naruto and sasuke?

Base naruto is enough to kill a weakened momoshiki. Boruto is able to surprise attack knock him off his feet. Which he wouldnt able to resist since he didnt know it hit him.

not only did it knock him down but it damages him as well since you can see the hole on his shoulders.

That was from the rasengan hitting him, he reverted back to normal after that.

Sasuke is talking about the whole otsutsuki clan, who kaguya wasnt even preparing for.

Actually it does when kaguya has better hax than momoshiki.

Base naruto never even fought momoshiki lol, you're just lying again.

you clearly are not able to Comprehend context.

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^ looks like base Naruto to me. GG wrecked you. Yes, Base Naruto Killed Momoshiki. He gave Boruto the chakra needed to kill Momoshiki and he did it while in base form. so clearly Momoshiki isn't Kaguya level or Madara level because Base Naruto can't kill them or defeat them.

Its in the manga aswell, kinshiki even states "we found kaguya's world(Planet)" which implies they were looking for her.

Thanking someone for doing your job is way different from being afraid to do your job. That makes no sense at all. Him being confident to take over the place that beat kaguya proves this.

Momoshiki needed back up, and no he wasn't looking for Kaguya. only in the anime did he even ask about Kaguya. in the Manga, he never said a word about Kaguya.

Because its the same naruto? Lol. Naruto literally made 2k clones against kaguya. So going by your logic a weakened naruto is swapping hands and forcing kaguya to go rabbit form, so a full power naruto stomps madara.

Why? Naruto isnt effected at all by making clones.

we are talking about part 2 Naruto which states Naruto splits his chakra to make shadow clones.

She hit the hawk's vital points, she only got sasuke's arm. Plus i wasnt even talking about that part.

LMFAO. Still proves my point that her attacks easily pierced his Susanoo.

The attack is actually nigh solar system since momoshiki>kaguya, planet level bare minimum. Sasuke's sword stabbing naruto isnt proof he got weaker, that sword would've stabbed naruto anytime, including his prime.

No, he isn't because even Killer Bee Tanked and survive his attacks. So if Killer Bee can tank them and not get instantly killed by the attack then Momoshiki is clearly not Kaguya level or Madara level.

The attack is Solar system level, otherwise, Sasuke would have stated this since both him and naruto can sense chakra. that attack Momoshiki did to naruto was country level which is weaker than Ten tails which can nuke country casually.

It proofs he weaker because Naruto couldn't dodge it when he was dodging Toneri attacks like 9 years prior to this fight. I sure Toneri is leagues faster than that sword attack Shin did.

Them getting one shotted is your headcanon, especially when they were tanking hits before that, we dont know how they got beat so you're using headcanon to suit your argument.

they literally got one-shotted, end of Story. they were no longer there, so they obviously were defeated by the Limbo clones. they only lasted 2 panels, which isn't even a fight...so you might as well say they got curb stomped.

That isnt one of his best attacks, not even close. Amaterasu is a fodder attack now.

it isn't foddered, it just Naruto can block it with the 9 tails Chakra clock.

Not really, it would just take chakra to cover the whole planet, way different from planet destroying chakra.

that not how it works in Naruto. Illusionary Jutsu takes just as much chakra as Destructive ninjutsu. it all the same actually, like I said the actual context of the Jutsu says Madara creates a dimension.

which takes more chakra than destroying a planet.

You didnt prove anything, just proved it would take chakra that could cover the planet, not destroy it.

Zetsu states everytime she transforms dimensions, except she was teleporting not transforming anything. I dont know why naruto didnt do it then, he didnt even try, ask kishimoto that, later on we see he does do it tho.

I did prove it. you just didn't read it, properly. Madara created an empty Dimension, that is what I.T does. it creates a Dimension, which takes more than Planet level chakra to do.

In part 1 when he fought against his clones.

Then naruto proceeds to swap hands with, rip off her limbs and force her into rabbit form. She also never transformed dimensions, she was teleporting.

the context of the information states whenever she teleports individuals it takes a lot of her chakra.

When she did this Zetsu informed them that it takes a lot of chakras otherwise the there is no point in him saying that if she isn't using up massive chakra when she does this.

If you are saying it doesn't take chakra for her to do this then I can make the argument that Madara can just take Naruto and Sasuke to another dimension since that is an Abilities of the Rinne Sharingan.

Momoshiki one shots madara.

Momoshiki ran from the kages, naruto and sasuke. Remember when madara ran from only naruto and sasuke?

Base naruto is enough to kill a weakened momoshiki. Boruto is able to surprise attack knock him off his feet. Which he wouldnt able to resist since he didnt know it hit him.

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Look at that Attack from Base Naruto he is giving it to Boruto and letting him kill Momoshiki. which he does, With base Naruto's Chakra Boruto killed Momoshiki.

That was from the rasengan hitting him, he reverted back to normal after that.

A Base Naruto Giving a Rasengan to Boruto Killed Momoshiki. that is all that needs to be said, he isn't Kaguya tier or Madara tier.

it Took Momoshiki Several hours to Absorb the 9 tails to half its power. He stated that the 9 tails power was ridiculous.

10 tails>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>full 100% 9 tails>>>>8 tails>>>7tails.

with that being said we can conclude that Momoshiki is fodder tier and is an ant To Kaguya and Madara.

you clearly are not able to Comprehend context.

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^ looks like base Naruto to me. GG wrecked you. Yes, Base Naruto Killed Momoshiki. He gave Boruto the chakra needed to kill Momoshiki and he did it while in base form. so clearly Momoshiki isn't Kaguya level or Madara level because Base Naruto can't kill them or defeat them.

I saw base naruto dodging momoshiki then get kicked away casually. Plus momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan.

Momoshiki needed back up, and no he wasn't looking for Kaguya. only in the anime did he even ask about Kaguya. in the Manga, he never said a word about Kaguya.

In the manga kinshiki says that they found kaguya's world/planet, which means they were looking for kaguya. He wouldnt have said it for no reason.

we are talking about part 2 Naruto which states Naruto splits his chakra to make shadow clones.

Yet is uneffected by it.

LMFAO. Still proves my point that her attacks easily pierced his Susanoo.

He was on the hawk tho. And just fine.

No, he isn't because even Killer Bee Tanked and survive his attacks. So if Killer Bee can tank them and not get instantly killed by the attack then Momoshiki is clearly not Kaguya level or Madara level.

The attack is Solar system level, otherwise, Sasuke would have stated this since both him and naruto can sense chakra. that attack Momoshiki did to naruto was country level which is weaker than Ten tails which can nuke country casually.

It proofs he weaker because Naruto couldn't dodge it when he was dodging Toneri attacks like 9 years prior to this fight. I sure Toneri is leagues faster than that sword attack Shin did.

Momoshiki wasnt trying to kill bee, he just wanted his chakra, and bee needed to be alive for that.

Sasuke doesnt need to state something for it to be true.

But naruto didnt even see the sword coming at him, he didnt even know it came at him. You cant dodge something you dont even know is gonna attack you.

they literally got one-shotted, end of Story. they were no longer there, so they obviously were defeated by the Limbo clones. they only lasted 2 panels, which isn't even a fight...so you might as well say they got curb stomped.

They were swapping hands with the limbos casually. The limbo could've also ran away from them too. Or madara could've made new ones. They fought them for long enough till madara came back after casting I.T, and after sasuke took out all meteors which would be 2 minutes bare minimum.

it isn't foddered, it just Naruto can block it with the 9 tails Chakra clock.

Compared to what else sasuke can do, it is pretty fodder.

that not how it works in Naruto. Illusionary Jutsu takes just as much chakra as Destructive ninjutsu. it all the same actually, like I said the actual context of the Jutsu says Madara creates a dimension.

which takes more chakra than destroying a planet.

Flawed logic. Momoshiki can casually make multiple dimensions which contain stars, planets etc, yet you claim he's only country level? Double standards.

I did prove it. you just didn't read it, properly. Madara created an empty Dimension, that is what I.T does. it creates a Dimension, which takes more than Planet level chakra to do.

Momoshiki does this too, but to you he's only country level.

the context of the information states whenever she teleports individuals it takes a lot of her chakra.

When she did this Zetsu informed them that it takes a lot of chakras otherwise the there is no point in him saying that if she isn't using up massive chakra when she does this.

If you are saying it doesn't take chakra for her to do this then I can make the argument that Madara can just take Naruto and Sasuke to another dimension since that is an Abilities of the Rinne Sharingan.

Zetsu states when she transforms dimensions, he never mentioned teleportation. Naruto isnt exactly at full power when he forces her to rabbit form either.

Sasuke can dimension hop back and kick madara's ass. Naruto stomps madara before he can do it.

A Base Naruto Giving a Rasengan to Boruto Killed Momoshiki. that is all that needs to be said, he isn't Kaguya tier or Madara tier.

It killed a weakened momoshiki sure. So i guess weakened momoshiki is weaker than them. FP momoshiki one shots them tho.

it Took Momoshiki Several hours to Absorb the 9 tails to half its power. He stated that the 9 tails power was ridiculous.

10 tails>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>full 100% 9 tails>>>>8 tails>>>7tails.

with that being said we can conclude that Momoshiki is fodder tier and is an ant To Kaguya and Madara.

Momoshiki's rinnegan absorbing is the same as any other rinnegan user's. So that would be a feat for the nine tails.

the nine tails makes up most of the ten tails' power soooo

And with momoshiki swapping hands with RBSM naruto and tanking his attacks and being stated above kaguya we can conclude he is.

I saw base naruto dodging momoshiki then get kicked away casually. Plus momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan.

That is irrelevant to my argument. are you implying Naruto was a full power?

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This also proves that Momoshiki has never absorbed a God tree as well. 9 tails Powers comes from the God tree, Not only that but the 9 tails are only a small piece of the power as well.

So the fact this is enormous chakra to Momoshiki debunks your claim that he ate God Tree. he maybe ate a Fruit of a God Tree, but as we can see even that is highly unlikely because he if did he would have gained Rinne Sharingan from eating the fruit just like Kaguya did when she ate the fruit.

10 tails>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>full 100% 9 tails.

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those Rods in Naruto stops you from gathering Chakra, yet Naruto had enough Chakra to kill Momoshiki while he was in base form.

In the manga kinshiki says that they found kaguya's world/planet, which means they were looking for kaguya. He wouldnt have said it for no reason.

That is anime filler only. Lastly, you said on the last page the anime isn't Canon to the Manga, so now why are you using anime filler to debate against Canon Manga stuff?

Yet is uneffected by it

Which is an Inconsistency Fallacy. when Material contradict what the Author Wrote in the story you can dismiss it, because of it underminds what the Author was writing.

every time Naruto uses that Many clones they always got one-shotted by fodder attacks.

He was on the hawk tho. And just fine.

Irrelevant to my point. Kaguya still with Needles casually broke through Sasuke Susanoo.

Momoshiki wasnt trying to kill bee, he just wanted his chakra, and bee needed to be alive for that.

Sasuke doesnt need to state something for it to be true.

But naruto didnt even see the sword coming at him, he didnt even know it came at him. You cant dodge something you dont even know is gonna attack you.

irrelevant because at the end of the Day he needed to Eat pills to do that to Killer bee which means without the Pills Killer bee would smash Momoshiki easily.

It is country-level because that is all it was stated to it would destroy and that is only if Naruto had attacked it.

Which proves my point that Naruto can't Dodge Light Fang because he couldn't Dodge Shin Sword that he was manipulating.

They were swapping hands with the limbos casually. The limbo could've also ran away from them too. Or madara could've made new ones. They fought them for long enough till madara came back after casting I.T, and after sasuke took out all meteors which would be 2 minutes bare minimum.

That is headcanon, no time limit was ever stated. All we know is Naruto clones only lasted 2 panels then were gone while Madara Limbo clones were still there which means Limbo clones one-shotted the Shadow clones and is consistent with what Kishimoto wrote.

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Kishimoto's own Words: GOING UP AGAINST THIS ABILITY WILL RESULT IN ONE LOSING AGAINST SUCH A POWERFUL ENEMY.

that's exactly what happened to Naruto's clones they fought the Limbo clones and Lost.

Compared to what else sasuke can do, it is pretty fodder.

Not really since he was getting beat by shin as well, just not as bad as Naruto was.

Flawed logic. Momoshiki can casually make multiple dimensions which contain stars, planets etc, yet you claim he's only country level? Double standards.

Well, the fact is Momoshiki has no feats of these creating a Dimension, especially since 9 tails Chakra is too much for him so we know he never ate a god Tree at all. I.T specifically states it creates a Dimension for the Victims which is beyond planet level. Don't blame me blame the Writers who wrote Momoshiki like this. he just isn't on Kaguya or Madara's level he got one-shotted by base naruto who was low on Chakra.

Momoshiki does this too, but to you he's only country level.

No Momoshiki hasn't done this, that we have seen. While we literally see Madara Active I.T which states it does this.

the Attack Momoshiki did to Naruto is Country level.

Zetsu states when she transforms dimensions, he never mentioned teleportation. Naruto isnt exactly at full power when he forces her to rabbit form either.

Sasuke can dimension hop back and kick madara's ass. Naruto stomps madara before he can do it.

The context of the statement was made while Kaguya was teleporting to other Dimensions. you are claiming it doesn't take A shit Ton of Chakra when you first hand Saw what it did to Sasuke. BTW Sasuke Opens Portals to a dimension while Rinne Sharingan Teleports everyone in the area around you to a Dimension.

Sasuke after opening a portal was so Weak that Shin could stomp him so unless you think Shin is Sasuke level it clear that Opening portals and Teleporting takes a shit ton of chakra.

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This is the only Move Madara didn't use with his Rinne Sharingan. Each of the Moves he used was Planet level above chakra levels.

It killed a weakened momoshiki sure. So i guess weakened momoshiki is weaker than them. FP momoshiki one shots them tho.

Naruto was Weaken With Rods in his body before that Momoshiki took like half of the 9 tails powers from him. Saying Momoshiki was "Weakened" isn't a Valid argument because Naruto wasn't 100% and weakened too yet he still in base Killed Momoshiki.

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Momoshiki ate like 5 pills Before he was killed so he wasn't that weakened.

Kaguya and Madara are more powerful than 100% Momoshiki as well.

Momoshiki's rinnegan absorbing is the same as any other rinnegan user's. So that would be a feat for the nine tails.

the nine tails makes up most of the ten tails' power soooo

And with momoshiki swapping hands with RBSM naruto and tanking his attacks and being stated above kaguya we can conclude he is.

not the point of the argument. the point is 9 tails shouldn't be impressive to him if he, as you claim, has been eating God trees. 9 tails is a by-product of the God tree.

So...why would something that not even a God tree be impressive to him if he eating God Trees? unless he never ate a god Tree ever.

10 tails Powers>>>>>>>>>>>>100% 9 taills>>>8 tails

9 tails have already stated the 10 tails is far above all the Buji including 9 tail himself.

he isn't stated to be above Kaguya so he isn't. a hypothesis isn't a statement, you are using headcanon.

That is irrelevant to my argument. are you implying Naruto was a full power?

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This also proves that Momoshiki has never absorbed a God tree as well. 9 tails Powers comes from the God tree, Not only that but the 9 tails are only a small piece of the power as well.

So the fact this is enormous chakra to Momoshiki debunks your claim that he ate God Tree. he maybe ate a Fruit of a God Tree, but as we can see even that is highly unlikely because he if did he would have gained Rinne Sharingan from eating the fruit just like Kaguya did when she ate the fruit.

10 tails>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>full 100% 9 tails.

How?

It doesnt prove anything. Especially when we see momoshiki reduce them to stumps. Plus god tree absorbing is instant.

He reduced them to stumps, he absorbed them. and him struggling to absorb it with the rinnegan is a feat for the nine tails.

Actually the nine tails makes up most of the power so the ten tails isnt much stronger.

those Rods in Naruto stops you from gathering Chakra, yet Naruto had enough Chakra to kill Momoshiki while he was in base form.

Again, this is a weakened momoshiki. If you want to ignore that fact then go ahead, there's just no point in bringing back this argument tho when it was debunked like for the last 5 posts.

That is anime filler only. Lastly, you said on the last page the anime isn't Canon to the Manga, so now why are you using anime filler to debate against Canon Manga stuff?

Its in the novels too, that are canon and are adaptations of the manga. They're even supervised by kishimoto.

Which is an Inconsistency Fallacy. when Material contradict what the Author Wrote in the story you can dismiss it, because of it underminds what the Author was writing.

every time Naruto uses that Many clones they always got one-shotted by fodder attacks.

Exactly, so you can dismiss that shadow clones split your chakra as way before and even when it was announced it still did nothing to naruto.

I guess the limbo clones are less than fodder then.

Irrelevant to my point. Kaguya still with Needles casually broke through Sasuke Susanoo.

But sasuke wasnt even on the susanno when she used the needles...

Not really since he was getting beat by shin as well, just not as bad as Naruto was.

Sasuke was only "getting beat" because sarada stopped him from killing the shin clone, which gave shin a free shot on sasuke. Naruto also got hit by surprise too, so they didnt really lose tbh.

irrelevant because at the end of the Day he needed to Eat pills to do that to Killer bee which means without the Pills Killer bee would smash Momoshiki easily.

It is country-level because that is all it was stated to it would destroy and that is only if Naruto had attacked it.

Which proves my point that Naruto can't Dodge Light Fang because he couldn't Dodge Shin Sword that he was manipulating.

That sentence made no sense. The fact that momoshiki takes his pills before fighting basically anyone, means that without the pills, he would lose to them? That makes literally no sense.

By scaling/statements that attack would be nigh solar system level. Then again naruto can swap hands with kaguya who is far stronger than madara who you claim is planet level.

Naruto literally dodges the light fang point blank casually. Him being taken off guard by sasuke's sword proves nothing. You cant dodge something you dont know is gonna hit you.

That is headcanon, no time limit was ever stated. All we know is Naruto clones only lasted 2 panels then were gone while Madara Limbo clones were still there which means Limbo clones one-shotted the Shadow clones and is consistent with what Kishimoto wrote.

Not headcanon when we see the clones swapping hands. In fact, its headcanon that they got defeated since the limbo could've just ran away.

Kishimoto's own Words: GOING UP AGAINST THIS ABILITY WILL RESULT IN ONE LOSING AGAINST SUCH A POWERFUL ENEMY.

that's exactly what happened to Naruto's clones they fought the Limbo clones and Lost.

?

They stalemated. Its headcanon that they lost.

Well, the fact is Momoshiki has no feats of these creating a Dimension, especially since 9 tails Chakra is too much for him so we know he never ate a god Tree at all. I.T specifically states it creates a Dimension for the Victims which is beyond planet level. Don't blame me blame the Writers who wrote Momoshiki like this. he just isn't on Kaguya or Madara's level he got one-shotted by base naruto who was low on Chakra.

Momoshiki did create his dimensions, you know where he teleported naruto? That was his dimension. Also are you suggesting zetsu obito is planet level since his kamui made a dimension? Momoshiki was weakened too.

The context of the statement was made while Kaguya was teleporting to other Dimensions. you are claiming it doesn't take A shit Ton of Chakra when you first hand Saw what it did to Sasuke. BTW Sasuke Opens Portals to a dimension while Rinne Sharingan Teleports everyone in the area around you to a Dimension.

Sasuke after opening a portal was so Weak that Shin could stomp him so unless you think Shin is Sasuke level it clear that Opening portals and Teleporting takes a shit ton of chakra.

It says transforming, not teleporting. Plus sasuke has way less chakra than kaguya. Kaguya has the whole ten tails and otsutsuki chakra reserves, plus she basically invented chakra. So you cant compare the two.

Shin didnt stomp him. He just got one surprise attack in. But apparently everything is stomping to you, you even think getting 2 punches in is stomping.

Naruto was Weaken With Rods in his body before that Momoshiki took like half of the 9 tails powers from him. Saying Momoshiki was "Weakened" isn't a Valid argument because Naruto wasn't 100% and weakened too yet he still in base Killed Momoshiki.

Momoshiki was weakened aswell, so whats your point? Plus he was only going off the fodder ninjutsu's chakra reserves.

not the point of the argument. the point is 9 tails shouldn't be impressive to him if he, as you claim, has been eating God trees. 9 tails is a by-product of the God tree.

So...why would something that not even a God tree be impressive to him if he eating God Trees? unless he never ate a god Tree ever.

10 tails Powers>>>>>>>>>>>>100% 9 taills>>>8 tails

9 tails have already stated the 10 tails is far above all the Buji including 9 tail himself.

he isn't stated to be above Kaguya so he isn't. a hypothesis isn't a statement, you are using headcanon.

So? The nine tails only impressed him because it was taking hours to absorb. Thats a chakra reserves feat for the nine tails.

Because it was taking long to absorb? While god trees get absorbed/eaten instantly.

The nine tails makes up most of the ten tails.

Obviously, because it had the nine tails in it, but its not that much above it, less than 2x since most of it's power is from the 9 tails.

He was. The hypothesis was backed up by facts. So its not headcanon.

Now this debate isnt going anywhere, you're just using the same already debunked points. I wouldnt suggest continuing this debate unless you want to bring no points if you're trying to win it since you lost a long time ago. Its basically us just repeating ourselves. I could literally copy and paste this post and debunk your whole next post again.

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#452 Posted by Revold (1033 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Momoshiki never ate any God Tree, since in the anime we saw many of them still there whole on the barren planet. At most he ate the chakra fruit, but in the anime he said "finally, an adequate harvest" implies that it is a rare occurrence, and eat them in small doses in the form of Red Earth instead.

Momoshiki said Naruto is going to be like one of those God Tree there, which implies that the God Trees are only Kyuubi level, not Juubi level like Kaguya's one. And Momoshiki didn't awaken Rinne Sharingan after eating the chakra fruit, likely due to the same reason. A small piece of chakra of each Bijuu must be present in order to bloom the flower of Rinne Sharingan. That might also mean the planet is just not as flourishing as Earth in the first place, since none of the previous God Tree gave Momoshiki a Rinne Sharingan. Kinishiki said Earth's spacetime curvature is abnormal, 6 levels above what should be reported to the clan, also supports this idea that Earth is a special case contains more chakra than most other planets, including Momoshiki's.

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#453 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@revold said:

Pretty sure Momoshiki never ate any God Tree, since in the anime we saw many of them still there whole on the barren planet. At most he ate the chakra fruit, but in the anime he said "finally, an adequate harvest" implies that it is a rare occurrence, and eat them in small doses in the form of Red Earth instead.

Momoshiki said Naruto is going to be like one of those God Tree there, which implies that the God Trees are only Kyuubi level, not Juubi level like Kaguya's one. And Momoshiki didn't awaken Rinne Sharingan after eating the chakra fruit, likely due to the same reason. A small piece of chakra of each Bijuu must be present in order to bloom the flower of Rinne Sharingan. That might also mean the planet is just not as flourishing as Earth in the first place, since none of the previous God Tree gave Momoshiki a Rinne Sharingan. Kinishiki said Earth's spacetime curvature is abnormal, 6 levels above what should be reported to the clan, also supports this idea that Earth is a special case contains more chakra than most other planets, including Momoshiki's.

We see him sitting on the stump of the god tree, and in the novels(which is an adaptation of the manga/anime) its explained that he devoured it to the point where he could sit on the stump.

The god tree had been stated to absorb all the chakra from the planet. But it didnt have the bijuu which was why he didnt get the rinnesharingan. I agree earth would be above other planets, but it being above the normal for earth isnt proof that it is.

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#454 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi: actually you lost the debate long ago I've been telling you why but you keep ignoring it.

Remember a page ago you told me the anime was non-canon to the Manga. Now, you are trying to use the Anime to say Momoshiki ate God trees.

which is a no-no, you can't tell someone something is Non-canon then use that same non-canon source to debate canon.

Secondly, Urashiki doesn't exist in the manga, so again you can't prove Momoshiki ate a God tree, from non-canon source and act as if it is canon to the Manga.

then you assumed that Sasuke was Talking Momoshiki in the novels when he was making a hypothesis. I'm telling you assumptions are not proof or evidence, it should be irrelevant where we are talking about Base Or Fuse Momoshiki because when Sasuke Made this hypothesis Fused Momoshiki wasn't even a concept to him. the fact is, Momoshiki has no feat above Kaguya or Madara.

You asked me how was earth Stronger than the planets Momoshiki took...the fact that Earths God Tree gained Rinne Sharingan and Momoshiki didn't prove it was much stronger.

It's No shocker since Earth is 6 levels above what should be reported to the Clans Superiors. Earth Chakra>>>>>>The chakra of other planets. There is only one other person that has a Rinne Sharingan like Juubi and the is the Juubi that Jigen has which is supposedly Kaguya's Partner.

as of right now the feats of Momoshiki is borderline Rinnegan Obito level and 1 eyed Madara level. he isn't on 3 eyed Madara or Kaguya level. he doesn't even have Regeneration like Madara and Kaguya had, so you can't say they are the same level because they are.

Madara stomps Momoshiki.

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#455 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi: actually you lost the debate long ago I've been telling you why but you keep ignoring it.

Remember a page ago you told me the anime was non-canon to the Manga. Now, you are trying to use the Anime to say Momoshiki ate God trees.

which is a no-no, you can't tell someone something is Non-canon then use that same non-canon source to debate canon.

Secondly, Urashiki doesn't exist in the manga, so again you can't prove Momoshiki ate a God tree, from non-canon source and act as if it is canon to the Manga.

then you assumed that Sasuke was Talking Momoshiki in the novels when he was making a hypothesis. I'm telling you assumptions are not proof or evidence, it should be irrelevant where we are talking about Base Or Fuse Momoshiki because when Sasuke Made this hypothesis Fused Momoshiki wasn't even a concept to him. the fact is, Momoshiki has no feat above Kaguya or Madara.

You asked me how was earth Stronger than the planets Momoshiki took...the fact that Earths God Tree gained Rinne Sharingan and Momoshiki didn't prove it was much stronger.

as of right now the feats of Momoshiki is borderline Rinnegan Obito level and 1 eyed Madara level. he isn't on 3 eyed Madara or Kaguya level. he doesn't even have Regeneration like Madara and Kaguya had, so you can't say they are the same level because they are.

Madara stomps Momoshiki.

Never lost but ok.

Im actually using the novels, that are canon.

Sasuke was talking about the threat in the manga, dont know why you're trying to call it novels(that are still canon btw). And said hypothesis was backed up by facts from otsutsuki history, so yes, the threat would be momoshiki based off what sasuke got his info from. And momoshiki swaps hands with naruto who could force kaguya into rabbit form and rip off her limbs, who is far above madara.

Earth's god tree got the rinne sharingan from bijuu chakra, while the ones momoshiki absorbed had absorbed their whole planet's chakra, which by your logic would make momoshiki planet level by default.

Already proved how he's on their level.

Momoshiki one shots juubidara.

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#456 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi: actually you lost the debate long ago I've been telling you why but you keep ignoring it.

Remember a page ago you told me the anime was non-canon to the Manga. Now, you are trying to use the Anime to say Momoshiki ate God trees.

which is a no-no, you can't tell someone something is Non-canon then use that same non-canon source to debate canon.

Secondly, Urashiki doesn't exist in the manga, so again you can't prove Momoshiki ate a God tree, from non-canon source and act as if it is canon to the Manga.

then you assumed that Sasuke was Talking Momoshiki in the novels when he was making a hypothesis. I'm telling you assumptions are not proof or evidence, it should be irrelevant where we are talking about Base Or Fuse Momoshiki because when Sasuke Made this hypothesis Fused Momoshiki wasn't even a concept to him. the fact is, Momoshiki has no feat above Kaguya or Madara.

You asked me how was earth Stronger than the planets Momoshiki took...the fact that Earths God Tree gained Rinne Sharingan and Momoshiki didn't prove it was much stronger.

as of right now the feats of Momoshiki is borderline Rinnegan Obito level and 1 eyed Madara level. he isn't on 3 eyed Madara or Kaguya level. he doesn't even have Regeneration like Madara and Kaguya had, so you can't say they are the same level because they are.

Madara stomps Momoshiki.

Never lost but ok.

Im actually using the novels, that are canon.

Sasuke was talking about the threat in the manga, dont know why you're trying to call it novels(that are still canon btw). And said hypothesis was backed up by facts from otsutsuki history, so yes, the threat would be momoshiki based off what sasuke got his info from. And momoshiki swaps hands with naruto who could force kaguya into rabbit form and rip off her limbs, who is far above madara.

Earth's god tree got the rinne sharingan from bijuu chakra, while the ones momoshiki absorbed had absorbed their whole planet's chakra, which by your logic would make momoshiki planet level by default.

Already proved how he's on their level.

Momoshiki one shots juubidara.

you actually did lose.

Why do you keep calling it manga when you said you are using the Novels?

That headcanon, because He never again Said they were Kaguya threats that he was talking about.

God tree already had the Rinne Sharingan, before the Buji even existed. Chakra from earth was higher than anyone planet Momoshiki has ever taken chakra from.

Feats prove that wrong when Kages can fight and React to him. not only that he was one-shotted by Base Naruto.

LMFAO no, he can't Since Madara is immortal and Can regenerate. not only that Madara created Empty Dimension with I.T casually and then did a planet level Jutsu.

as far as I'm a concern that way above Planet level.

Edit: After doing a bit more research, the light Novels are a version of the Boruto movie by Kodachi and Kishimoto.

Kodachi now writes the Manga. since he Wrote the Movie, the fact that he never mentions Momoshiki being above Kaguya in the manga should tell you that she is more powerful than him.

while Kaguya has Created dimensions 6, and Madara created 1 using I.T

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#457 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

Naruto clones never stalemated The Limbo clones, at the end of the Battle they were surrounded. We no longer see the Shadow clones which means They lost to the Limbo. it isn't Headcanon because Kishimoto stated you lose against such powerful foe. If you are saying Kishimoto's own words are headcanon then I guess we can say the Light novels are Headcanon.

Momoshiki's only planet level Feat in the Novels was at the very end when he was Absorbing chakra from the planet. New flash, Toneri in the last Was Absorbing chakra from a Star.

Star>>>>Planet.

Like I said Toneri is still weaker than Madara.

Naruto didn't swap hands with Kaguya he literally was getting one-shotted him and all his clones.

Feats>>>>Statements.

Momoshiki feats show that he is weaker than Both Kaguya and Madara.

No, the attack isn't star-level it stated to be country-level at best. the fact that you don't want to accept it and using headcanon saying it "Could" be Star level is headcanon. since we got confirmation that it isn't Star level.

scaling doesn't work when we already have a statement on how powerful the attack is and it not even close to Toneri Continental level attack.

anything else is pure fabrication.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki.

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#458 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Naruto clones never stalemated The Limbo clones, at the end of the Battle they were surrounded. We no longer see the Shadow clones which means They lost to the Limbo. it isn't Headcanon because Kishimoto stated you lose against such powerful foe. If you are saying Kishimoto's own words are headcanon then I guess we can say the Light novels are Headcanon.

Momoshiki's only planet level Feat in the Novels was at the very end when he was Absorbing chakra from the planet. New flash, Toneri in the last Was Absorbing chakra from a Star.

Star>>>>Planet.

Like I said Toneri is still weaker than Madara.

Naruto didn't swap hands with Kaguya he literally was getting one-shotted him and all his clones.

Feats>>>>Statements.

Momoshiki feats show that he is weaker than Both Kaguya and Madara.

No, the attack isn't star-level it stated to be country-level at best. the fact that you don't want to accept it and using headcanon saying it "Could" be Star level is headcanon. since we got confirmation that it isn't Star level.

scaling doesn't work when we already have a statement on how powerful the attack is and it not even close to Toneri Continental level attack.

anything else is pure fabrication.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki.

The shadow clones actually didnt lose, they were caught in the I.T. Depends on what kishimoto ment by "you" will lose, if he ment ME, then obviously i would lose, but if he ment anyone then thats NLF, and contradicted later on as kaguya is stated above madara. Yet nothing contradicts the novels.

Cool, i guess KCM naruto is star level now lol. News flash, momoshiki swaps hands with this same KCM naruto with his so6p powers and sage mode stacked on top of it.

If toneri was truely star level(which he isnt but meh) then he'd be on the same tier as kaguya, and in the movie guide its stated his power rivaled kaguya, so he would be way above madara.

Naruto is able to rip off her limbs, what do you mean? Plus his clone's durability is fodder to his.

Feats show hes above madara, scaling and statements show hes above kaguya.

It says the attack was gonna destroy the country, never said thats all it could do.

Naruto/Sasuke>>>>>momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>>madara.

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#459 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Naruto clones never stalemated The Limbo clones, at the end of the Battle they were surrounded. We no longer see the Shadow clones which means They lost to the Limbo. it isn't Headcanon because Kishimoto stated you lose against such powerful foe. If you are saying Kishimoto's own words are headcanon then I guess we can say the Light novels are Headcanon.

Momoshiki's only planet level Feat in the Novels was at the very end when he was Absorbing chakra from the planet. New flash, Toneri in the last Was Absorbing chakra from a Star.

Star>>>>Planet.

Like I said Toneri is still weaker than Madara.

Naruto didn't swap hands with Kaguya he literally was getting one-shotted him and all his clones.

Feats>>>>Statements.

Momoshiki feats show that he is weaker than Both Kaguya and Madara.

No, the attack isn't star-level it stated to be country-level at best. the fact that you don't want to accept it and using headcanon saying it "Could" be Star level is headcanon. since we got confirmation that it isn't Star level.

scaling doesn't work when we already have a statement on how powerful the attack is and it not even close to Toneri Continental level attack.

anything else is pure fabrication.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki.

The shadow clones actually didnt lose, they were caught in the I.T. Depends on what kishimoto ment by "you" will lose, if he ment ME, then obviously i would lose, but if he ment anyone then thats NLF, and contradicted later on as kaguya is stated above madara. Yet nothing contradicts the novels.

Cool, i guess KCM naruto is star level now lol. News flash, momoshiki swaps hands with this same KCM naruto with his so6p powers and sage mode stacked on top of it.

If toneri was truely star level(which he isnt but meh) then he'd be on the same tier as kaguya, and in the movie guide its stated his power rivaled kaguya, so he would be way above madara.

Naruto is able to rip off her limbs, what do you mean? Plus his clone's durability is fodder to his.

Feats show hes above madara, scaling and statements show hes above kaguya.

It says the attack was gonna destroy the country, never said thats all it could do.

Naruto/Sasuke>>>>>momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>>madara.

That not how it works buddy. why are you changing the subject? we are talking about Naruto, not Kaguya. Naruto loses to them, you were just saying Naruto could beat Madara yet he loses the fight and couldn't even stop Madara from doing I.T Which pretty much means Madara was far more powerful.

Yes, the Novels are contradicted because of A) Momoshiki was only Absorbing a planet chakra which is fodder tier to Ten tails JJ who are above planet level, B) The statements were not even in the Manga only in the movie Novels was this statement said and never said again, C) it was a Hypothesis so it wasn't even a confirmed fact, since Sasuke had no idea since he only Fought Kinishiki and He did that while he was weak.

Nope, Naruto isn't Star level, if Momoshiki was that power he would have effortlessly and casually beaten Naruto and Sasuke who are not even planet level yet. the Difference from planet to Star level is huge, Naruto and Sasuke are not even planet level as of right now. Naruto and Sasuke beat Momoshiki while they were weakened and At only half power.

Toneri Absorbed part of a Star, not the whole thing when he tried he nearly died from too much chakra and was begging for someone to help him. So no Star level is far too much for him and is out of his league. the Fact is Star that he was absorbing is far beyond the planet that Momoshiki in his final form was absorbing.

which means Toneri with Naruto+Star power of chakra>>>>>Momoshiki.

Nope, Toneri is completely below Madara, he needed Naruto+ a Star chakra to destroy the earth.

Obito could do that with Just the Ten-Tails chakra.

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Obito with the Sword of Nunoboko was going to destroy the world.

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Literally stated that he was going to destroy the world with the Sword that the Sage used to Create the world.

Madara>>>>>Sword Nunoboko Obito>earth

since you are going to try and use the..."Well, Naruto and Sasuke Tanked his attacks so they are planet level then" Argument...you need to understand 3 things.

  1. Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto in his fight with planet level attacks.
  2. Kakashi confirmed that Obito was looking for the answers in naruto.
  3. It was character development to show that he was being used by Madara and Zetsu when he was forced to use Rinne rebirth and Madara become the new host of the 10 tails.

it's Clear Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto because he kept killing other shinobi in the force and looking at naruto saying stuff like “I thought you were gonna protect everyone”.

They barely damaged Obito's shield. lmao. If you go rewatch the fight they legit got 1 actual hit on him, and that was it.

If Obito intended to kill Naruto and Sasuke they would be dead.

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Kaguya>MAdara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Toneri.

Naruto did that while she was weakened from chakra taxing Jutsu. If Naruto could just Rip off Kaguya's arm at anytime then why did he only do it once? She was casually beating Naruto and Sasuke she wasn't even trying...the only time she was going to legit kill them was when she did ETSB, which Kakashi saved them and then She got Sealed.

Madara Scales to Kaguya since she is only 2x stronger than him.

If you read the text, Kishimoto stated that after Madara got both his eyes he could use 4 Limbo clones, when before he could only use 1 limbo clone. which means Madara got at least 4x stronger after getting his other eye.

You really must not be able to read...which is why I said get glasses. the Text says: If Naruto attacks collide with Momoshiki then it will destroy the Country. Both Momoshiki+Naruto attack Colliding=Country level. to say it would destroy more is an Assumption and Headcanon.

Nope, Because Momoshiki lost to a Half powered Naruto and Sasuke. who wasn't even close to full power not only that Base Naruto killed Momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Naruto hasn't been training which is facts, and the fact that Out of shape Naruto could best Momoshiki as he did proves that Momoshiki isn't Kaguya level or Madara level.

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Stated that he works in his office he doesn't train or do anything but paperwork.

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Even Kurama stated that Naruto doesn't even go all out anymore and that it's been a while since he did.

All of this backs up that Naruto isn't as powerful as he was before. he is much weaker to the point Sasuke now is equal to him when before Sasuke was much weaker than Naruto.

Kaguya>Madara>>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Sasuke>>Momoshiki.

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#460 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Naruto clones never stalemated The Limbo clones, at the end of the Battle they were surrounded. We no longer see the Shadow clones which means They lost to the Limbo. it isn't Headcanon because Kishimoto stated you lose against such powerful foe. If you are saying Kishimoto's own words are headcanon then I guess we can say the Light novels are Headcanon.

Momoshiki's only planet level Feat in the Novels was at the very end when he was Absorbing chakra from the planet. New flash, Toneri in the last Was Absorbing chakra from a Star.

Star>>>>Planet.

Like I said Toneri is still weaker than Madara.

Naruto didn't swap hands with Kaguya he literally was getting one-shotted him and all his clones.

Feats>>>>Statements.

Momoshiki feats show that he is weaker than Both Kaguya and Madara.

No, the attack isn't star-level it stated to be country-level at best. the fact that you don't want to accept it and using headcanon saying it "Could" be Star level is headcanon. since we got confirmation that it isn't Star level.

scaling doesn't work when we already have a statement on how powerful the attack is and it not even close to Toneri Continental level attack.

anything else is pure fabrication.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>Momoshiki.

The shadow clones actually didnt lose, they were caught in the I.T. Depends on what kishimoto ment by "you" will lose, if he ment ME, then obviously i would lose, but if he ment anyone then thats NLF, and contradicted later on as kaguya is stated above madara. Yet nothing contradicts the novels.

Cool, i guess KCM naruto is star level now lol. News flash, momoshiki swaps hands with this same KCM naruto with his so6p powers and sage mode stacked on top of it.

If toneri was truely star level(which he isnt but meh) then he'd be on the same tier as kaguya, and in the movie guide its stated his power rivaled kaguya, so he would be way above madara.

Naruto is able to rip off her limbs, what do you mean? Plus his clone's durability is fodder to his.

Feats show hes above madara, scaling and statements show hes above kaguya.

It says the attack was gonna destroy the country, never said thats all it could do.

Naruto/Sasuke>>>>>momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>>madara.

That not how it works buddy. why are you changing the subject? we are talking about Naruto, not Kaguya. Naruto loses to them, you were just saying Naruto could beat Madara yet he loses the fight and couldn't even stop Madara from doing I.T Which pretty much means Madara was far more powerful.

Yes, the Novels are contradicted because of A) Momoshiki was only Absorbing a planet chakra which is fodder tier to Ten tails JJ who are above planet level, B) The statements were not even in the Manga only in the movie Novels was this statement said and never said again, C) it was a Hypothesis so it wasn't even a confirmed fact, since Sasuke had no idea since he only Fought Kinishiki and He did that while he was weak.

Nope, Naruto isn't Star level, if Momoshiki was that power he would have effortlessly and casually beaten Naruto and Sasuke who are not even planet level yet. the Difference from planet to Star level is huge, Naruto and Sasuke are not even planet level as of right now. Naruto and Sasuke beat Momoshiki while they were weakened and At only half power.

Toneri Absorbed part of a Star, not the whole thing when he tried he nearly died from too much chakra and was begging for someone to help him. So no Star level is far too much for him and is out of his league. the Fact is Star that he was absorbing is far beyond the planet that Momoshiki in his final form was absorbing.

which means Toneri with Naruto+Star power of chakra>>>>>Momoshiki.

Nope, Toneri is completely below Madara, he needed Naruto+ a Star chakra to destroy the earth.

Obito could do that with Just the Ten-Tails chakra.

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Obito with the Sword of Nunoboko was going to destroy the world.

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Literally stated that he was going to destroy the world with the Sword that the Sage used to Create the world.

Madara>>>>>Sword Nunoboko Obito>earth

since you are going to try and use the..."Well, Naruto and Sasuke Tanked his attacks so they are planet level then" Argument...you need to understand 3 things.

  1. Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto in his fight with planet level attacks.
  2. Kakashi confirmed that Obito was looking for the answers in naruto.
  3. It was character development to show that he was being used by Madara and Zetsu when he was forced to use Rinne rebirth and Madara become the new host of the 10 tails.

it's Clear Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto because he kept killing other shinobi in the force and looking at naruto saying stuff like “I thought you were gonna protect everyone”.

They barely damaged Obito's shield. lmao. If you go rewatch the fight they legit got 1 actual hit on him, and that was it.

If Obito intended to kill Naruto and Sasuke they would be dead.

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Kaguya>MAdara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Toneri.

Naruto did that while she was weakened from chakra taxing Jutsu. If Naruto could just Rip off Kaguya's arm at anytime then why did he only do it once? She was casually beating Naruto and Sasuke she wasn't even trying...the only time she was going to legit kill them was when she did ETSB, which Kakashi saved them and then She got Sealed.

Madara Scales to Kaguya since she is only 2x stronger than him.

If you read the text, Kishimoto stated that after Madara got both his eyes he could use 4 Limbo clones, when before he could only use 1 limbo clone. which means Madara got at least 4x stronger after getting his other eye.

You really must not be able to read...which is why I said get glasses. the Text says: If Naruto attacks collide with Momoshiki then it will destroy the Country. Both Momoshiki+Naruto attack Colliding=Country level. to say it would destroy more is an Assumption and Headcanon.

Nope, Because Momoshiki lost to a Half powered Naruto and Sasuke. who wasn't even close to full power not only that Base Naruto killed Momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Naruto hasn't been training which is facts, and the fact that Out of shape Naruto could best Momoshiki as he did proves that Momoshiki isn't Kaguya level or Madara level.

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Stated that he works in his office he doesn't train or do anything but paperwork.

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Even Kurama stated that Naruto doesn't even go all out anymore and that it's been a while since he did.

All of this backs up that Naruto isn't as powerful as he was before. he is much weaker to the point Sasuke now is equal to him when before Sasuke was much weaker than Naruto.

Kaguya>Madara>>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Sasuke>>Momoshiki.

Naruto scales to kaguya since he could rip off her arm and force her into rabbit form to survive. Now you're trying to say madara> naruto because he got off the I.T? That makes no sense since naruto was focused on the meteors. I see you're trying your very best to ignore my points and make the worst ones. And naruto never lost to madara.

Yes, the Novels are contradicted because of A) Momoshiki was only Absorbing a planet chakra which is fodder tier to Ten tails JJ who are above planet level, B) The statements were not even in the Manga only in the movie Novels was this statement said and never said again, C) it was a Hypothesis so it wasn't even a confirmed fact, since Sasuke had no idea since he only Fought Kinishiki and He did that while he was weak.

A) The Ten tails isnt planet level, never was planet level. Cant scale to kaguya either since she is far above any ten tails JJ. While momoshiki casually eats this trees down that absorbed all the chakra from the planet and he can even create stars and planets in his dimensions. B) They were from the manga. And even then the movie is canon. C) The hypothesis was based off facts from otsutsuki history so it is to be taken seriously.

Nope, Naruto isn't Star level, if Momoshiki was that power he would have effortlessly and casually beaten Naruto and Sasuke who are not even planet level yet. the Difference from planet to Star level is huge, Naruto and Sasuke are not even planet level as of right now. Naruto and Sasuke beat Momoshiki while they were weakened and At only half power.

You contradict yourself again. You think the ten tails is beyond planet level yet think naruto and sasuke arent there? What? Naruto literally rips off limbs and forces kaguya into rabbit form who is above any ten tails JJ. Plus momoshiki scales to kaguya who is nigh solar system level and naruto and sasuke beat him so they are at that range.

Toneri Absorbed part of a Star, not the whole thing when he tried he nearly died from too much chakra and was begging for someone to help him. So no Star level is far too much for him and is out of his league. the Fact is Star that he was absorbing is far beyond the planet that Momoshiki in his final form was absorbing.

Um ok, momoshiki is still above him since he tanks RBSM punches while toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch. So i dont see your point.

which means Toneri with Naruto+Star power of chakra>>>>>Momoshiki.

Nope, Toneri is completely below Madara, he needed Naruto+ a Star chakra to destroy the earth.

Obito could do that with Just the Ten-Tails chakra.

And naruto without rikudou sage mode one shots this guy who was gonna destroy earth, yet you think naruto isnt even planet level. You do not go with your logic at all.

Literally stated that he was going to destroy the world with the Sword that the Sage used to Create the world.

Madara>>>>>Sword Nunoboko Obito>earth

since you are going to try and use the..."Well, Naruto and Sasuke Tanked his attacks so they are planet level then" Argument...you need to understand 3 things.

  1. Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto in his fight with planet level attacks.
  2. Kakashi confirmed that Obito was looking for the answers in naruto.
  3. It was character development to show that he was being used by Madara and Zetsu when he was forced to use Rinne rebirth and Madara become the new host of the 10 tails.

it's Clear Obito wasn't trying to kill Naruto because he kept killing other shinobi in the force and looking at naruto saying stuff like “I thought you were gonna protect everyone”.

They barely damaged Obito's shield. lmao. If you go rewatch the fight they legit got 1 actual hit on him, and that was it.

If Obito intended to kill Naruto and Sasuke they would be dead.

To be fair, he could've destroyed it over time/eventually, and since he's multi continental it's very possible. Plus he fought naruto and sasuke with the sword of nunoboku that you're trying to argue is planet level.

He was literally trying to kill them. And you're arguing for naruto but even going by this logic he still wasnt trying to kill sasuke, and he didnt die.

Yup, and that hit one shotted him. Plus naruto's sage mode rasengan is able to damage him.

He did, and naruto and sasuke didnt die.

Naruto did that while she was weakened from chakra taxing Jutsu. If Naruto could just Rip off Kaguya's arm at anytime then why did he only do it once? She was casually beating Naruto and Sasuke she wasn't even trying...the only time she was going to legit kill them was when she did ETSB, which Kakashi saved them and then She got Sealed.

What chakra taxing jutsu? Transforming dimensions? Oh wait, she was teleporting... Plus naruto only tried it when he got mad, and then proceeds to force her into rabbit form. And naruto is actually able to hold his own against kaguya.

Madara Scales to Kaguya since she is only 2x stronger than him.

2x is an insane lowball. Plus i dont see how madara scales to that anyways. Kaguya would be 10x stronger than madara just to be a lowball because if you heard the actual numbers you would call "BS" or "inconsistency" or "headcanon" or whatever.

If you read the text, Kishimoto stated that after Madara got both his eyes he could use 4 Limbo clones, when before he could only use 1 limbo clone. which means Madara got at least 4x stronger after getting his other eye.

Cool. Naruto's shadow clones still stalemated these 4x stronger limbo clones.

You really must not be able to read...which is why I said get glasses. the Text says: If Naruto attacks collide with Momoshiki then it will destroy the Country. Both Momoshiki+Naruto attack Colliding=Country level. to say it would destroy more is an Assumption and Headcanon.

Yeah, it would destroy the country, does that mean it's the max attack potency? No. Naruto in sage mode alone scales to the ten tails(since he one shotted juubidara) that's multi continental(or "Planet level" going by your logic) This logic can be used for the ten tails since it has never been stated to be able to, nor has destroyed a planet, so saying it would be able to is headcanon.(which it is either way)

Nope, Because Momoshiki lost to a Half powered Naruto and Sasuke. who wasn't even close to full power not only that Base Naruto killed Momoshiki.

Momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan, and him losing to naruto and sasuke is a feat for them. Plus naruto was drained of half the nine tails, which is basically the same state he was when he swaps hands and rips off kaguya's limbs, and forces her into rabbit form to tank the attack.

Naruto hasn't been training which is facts, and the fact that Out of shape Naruto could best Momoshiki as he did proves that Momoshiki isn't Kaguya level or Madara level.

Thats out of shape naruto from his prime, thats way above kaguya or madara, plus he needed help from sasuke to win that fight. Even then that would be a feat for naruto and momoshiki even standing a chance would put him above madara who is fodder to naruto at this point when hes obliterating kaguya's body with the tailed beasts rasenshurikens and ripping off her limbs. And this kaguya is far greater than madara.

Even Kurama stated that Naruto doesn't even go all out anymore and that it's been a while since he did.

All of this backs up that Naruto isn't as powerful as he was before. he is much weaker to the point Sasuke now is equal to him when before Sasuke was much weaker than Naruto.

Kaguya>Madara>>>Hagoromo>Adult Naruto=Sasuke>>Momoshiki.

This was before momoshiki fight.

Actually no, thats a feat for sasuke since he had 13+ years of training.

Adult naruto/sasuke>>>Momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>>madara.

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#461 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

Naruto scales to kaguya since he could rip off her arm and force her into rabbit form to survive. Now you're trying to say madara> naruto because he got off the I.T? That makes no sense since naruto was focused on the meteors. I see you're trying your very best to ignore my points and make the worst ones. And naruto never lost to madara.

Naruto doesn't scale to Kaguya, because she was destroying him in combat. I told you the Reason why Naruto was able to chop off Kaguya's Hand. you have yet to counter that, I told you she was weakened then. because she needed to absorb More Chakra from I.T to gain her strength back when proves she was weakened when all that happened.

That doesn't matter Because Sasuke was Overwhelmed by Madara's Meteors anyways.

Sasuke's Susanoo scales to Naruto Kamura Avatar.

Madara's Casual Meteor drop>>>Sasuke's Susanoo. he needed help to take them all out.

that was a Casual move From Madara since he literally Created a Dimension with I.T on screen.

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Sasuke needed to use his Susanoo against a Casual attack from Madara that he called rain-drops.

I.T is a Move Set of Madara just like shadow Clone is a Move set of Naruto.

Naruto needed 7 Buji RS just to take out 4 Meteors, with Sasuke's Help who was getting tried by them and overwhelmed

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A) The Ten tails isnt planet level, never was planet level. Cant scale to kaguya either since she is far above any ten tails JJ. While momoshiki casually eats this trees down that absorbed all the chakra from the planet and he can even create stars and planets in his dimensions. B) They were from the manga. And even then the movie is canon. C) The hypothesis was based off facts from otsutsuki history so it is to be taken seriously.

It doesn't matter what you think. What happens and stated in the canon is what matters. Obito with the blade of Nunoboko stated the weapon has the power to destroy the world. Madara>>>>>Blade of Nunoboko.

the Tree's Momoshiki was eating are weaker than the Tree's Kaguya and Madara absorbed which had Juubi Chakra. Momoshiki stated that 9 tails will become a God tree. That automatically makes the tree weaker by a shit ton since we have already established 10 tails Juubi>>>>>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tails.

That nice Madara Created a Dimension as well. Kaguya created 6. so how does Creating one Dimension ut him in Kaguya's League who had created 6 while all you alluded to is that Momoshiki may or May not have created just 1? your analogy doesn't add up and it doesn't make sense. 6>>>>1

until you can prove that Momoshiki made 6 dimensions he isn't on Kaguya's Level. Madara scales to Kaguya because his power was used to recreate her. so, he is at least 49-48% of her overall power. high ball 50% of her power.

It not because it was proven Wrong when Kages are able to fight them and not get one-shotted by them. Kaguya was able to One-shot Obito and would have one-shotted Naruto and Sasuke.

You contradict yourself again. You think the ten tails is beyond planet level yet think naruto and sasuke arent there? What? Naruto literally rips off limbs and forces kaguya into rabbit form who is above any ten tails JJ. Plus momoshiki scales to kaguya who is nigh solar system level and naruto and sasuke beat him so they are at that range.

Because Naruto and Sasuke were using the Weakens of The Juubi JJ to beat them, that doesn't prove they are stronger. that like using Kryptonite to beat Superman. Naruto did that after Kaguya was weakened not before when she was at 100% full power.

Um ok, momoshiki is still above him since he tanks RBSM punches while toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch. So i dont see your point.

Yet He was killed by Base Naruto who was weakened. Toneri got Knocked out by a 100% Naruto who wasn't weakened by having his chakra absorbed for several hours. While Momoshiki was killed by a less than 50% Naruto who had his chakra absorbed for several hours and had just got out of fight Momoshiki prior to that fight and still managed to kill Him while in base form.

This was out of shape Naruto, who hasn't fought seriously or trained in years and years to the point Boruto was upset that Naruto doesn't spend time with them at all.

And naruto without rikudou sage mode one shots this guy who was gonna destroy earth, yet you think naruto isnt even planet level. You do not go with your logic at all.

You need to head back to school to learn your before and after. Naruto knocked out Toneri Before he gained the power to destroy earth not After. Toneri Gained the power to destroy the earth at the end of the Movie. Naruto wasn't planet level because Toneri Only gained the Power to one shot and destroy the Earth when He Absorbed Naruto's power+1000s Of Byakugan+ Part of the Sun chakra.

Read the full text. when Naruto knocked out Tenseigan Toneri, He was using the Moon and Gravity to do the work and destroy the Earth. <------That is Multi-continental.

After He was defeated, Toneri then Absorbed all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan chakra+ Part of the Sun to one-shot the earth. <-----that is Planet Level.

all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan+Part of the Sun's Chakra=Planet Buster.

To be fair, he could've destroyed it over time/eventually, and since he's multi continental it's very possible. Plus he fought naruto and sasuke with the sword of nunoboku that you're trying to argue is planet level.

He was literally trying to kill them. And you're arguing for naruto but even going by this logic he still wasnt trying to kill sasuke, and he didnt die.

Yup, and that hit one shotted him. Plus naruto's sage mode rasengan is able to damage him.

He did, and naruto and sasuke didnt die.

No, he never said he would destroy it over time. he said he will destroy it.

Did you not Read the point why he lost? Stop using headcanon, and actually read the post. it not that hard to grasp since it literally stated in the manga scan I sent you.

they said The Attack was connected to Obito's soul, he lost because Naruto Talked him out of it.

You are making up your own Headcanon in this Debate which doesn't work at all.

Obito realized he was used by Madara... and Zetsu that is why in the end he was going to revive everyone that died in the war until Zetsu Took control over him and forced him to use it on Madara.

all Obito did that whole fight was blocked Attacks from Naruto and Sasuke and Dodge them. The only time he actually tried to kill them was when he was on Hashirama's Level of power and didn't have control over the Ten tails and was just attacking himself. once he gained full control over the Ten tails he never actually attack them with planet level attacks, Sage mode isn't an Argument as that like using Kryptonite against Superman and saying you are stronger because of it. OFC, you are going to do damage to him when you are using the one weakened they can't counter.

If you think otherwise make a Thread, with Juubi Obito vs BSM Naruto and SM Sasuke. With Obito blood lust and if everyone isn't just trolling or using headcanon they all will agree that Obito wins in a stomp.

You also forget that fact that Naruto and Sasuke Fused and mixed their powers together and while at 100% and even then they only won because Obito was Talked No Jutsu by Naruto into giving up and join them.

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Even then they had help from other people just accomplish this.

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Not only that they were being amped as well so it wasn't just Naruto and Sasuke.

While Momoshiki was one-shotted by 50% Naruto and Sasuke Fusing their powers together.

Had Naruto or Sasuke been 100% either one of them would have easily stomped Momoshiki 1 v 1 battle.

What chakra taxing jutsu? Transforming dimensions? Oh wait, she was teleporting... Plus naruto only tried it when he got mad, and then proceeds to force her into rabbit form. And naruto is actually able to hold his own against kaguya.

Getting mad doesn't raise your chakra this isn't DBZ. She was weakened. when she was 100% Naruto couldn't do anything and was getting one-shotted left and right.

2x is an insane lowball. Plus i dont see how madara scales to that anyways. Kaguya would be 10x stronger than madara just to be a lowball because if you heard the actual numbers you would call "BS" or "inconsistency" or "headcanon" or whatever.

That is Headcanon. like I said all Sasuke said was that I.T chakra was more powerful than the Ten tails.

Which we can say Madara is 48%-49% of Kaguya's Power; I.T being 52-51% of Kaguya's Power.

which would make the statement true. since I.T chakra> 3 eyed Madara.

Kaguya as a whole>>>>Ten tails chakra alone.

Kaguya is only 2x Madara as I said since everything that was stated is consistent with everything. Being Far Stronger doesn't mean 10x otherwise show me that proves that being Far stronger means you are 10x that person.

You don't need to be 10x stronger in order to be far stronger which is a fact this isn't DBZ buddy. stop trying to use their logic to power scale naruto. Kaguya is only 2x Madara because she needed Madara power who had a big chunk of her chakra. I.T alone isn't enough to bring Kaguya back. so yes Madara scales to her since she needed his power to revive.

Cool. Naruto's shadow clones still stalemated these 4x stronger limbo clones.

They didn't stalemate buddy. Naruto clone got beat easily after 2 panels.

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How is that Stalemating The Limbo's? when Naruto needed two clones just to hold down one limbo clone.

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Naruto+ Shadow clone was needed to stop one Limbo clones so how is he stalemating 4 limbos when 2 shadow clones are needed to stop just 1? FYI Madara can just make more.

Not only that the Limbo Tanked Sasuke's Chidori Sword strike, and was knocked back with just one punch for both Naruto and Sasuke.

Yeah, it would destroy the country, does that mean it's the max attack potency? No. Naruto in sage mode alone scales to the ten tails(since he one shotted juubidara) that's multi continental(or "Planet level" going by your logic) This logic can be used for the ten tails since it has never been stated to be able to, nor has destroyed a planet, so saying it would be able to is headcanon.(which it is either way)

who cares? You are speaking about unknowns and assumptions that you can't prove. I am going off what is canon and stated. the attack is only Country if Naruto+ Momoshiki attack collided together.

Momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan, and him losing to naruto and sasuke is a feat for them. Plus naruto was drained of half the nine tails, which is basically the same state he was when he swaps hands and rips off kaguya's limbs, and forces her into rabbit form to tank the attack.

Headcanon. He was just absorbing Chakra from the planet, in the novels...and in the manga, he was eating Chakra pills. so...no he wasn't weakened he was just killed after he got his powered raised. he just was weak.

Thats out of shape naruto from his prime, thats way above kaguya or madara, plus he needed help from sasuke to win that fight. Even then that would be a feat for naruto and momoshiki even standing a chance would put him above madara who is fodder to naruto at this point when hes obliterating kaguya's body with the tailed beasts rasenshurikens and ripping off her limbs. And this kaguya is far greater than madara.

What type of reverse power scaling is that? Naruto was losing to Madara, Kaguya was dumb which is why she lost. Naruto was at half power when he was stomping Momoshioki by himself. he didn't really need Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill Momoshiki Base Naruto did.

Kages were able to Fight Momoshiki clearly proves Momoshiki isn't on Kaguya or Madara's Level.

This was before momoshiki fight.

Actually no, thats a feat for sasuke since he had 13+ years of training.

Adult naruto/sasuke>>>Momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>>madara.

That was a month or so before Momoshiki arc happened. Boruto and his team were Genin then. The fact of the matter it proves my point.

Base Momoshiki was only above Base Naruto. you were just making claims that Base Naruto is equal to Kaguya. If that was so Naruto in just his base form should have been enough to take down Shin, casually with 0 diff. didn't, because Base Naruto isn't Kaguya level, Momoshiki isn't Madara level. the facts prove this.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>> Momoshiki

Avatar image for mattyboi
#462 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Naruto scales to kaguya since he could rip off her arm and force her into rabbit form to survive. Now you're trying to say madara> naruto because he got off the I.T? That makes no sense since naruto was focused on the meteors. I see you're trying your very best to ignore my points and make the worst ones. And naruto never lost to madara.

Naruto doesn't scale to Kaguya, because she was destroying him in combat. I told you the Reason why Naruto was able to chop off Kaguya's Hand. you have yet to counter that, I told you she was weakened then. because she needed to absorb More Chakra from I.T to gain her strength back when proves she was weakened when all that happened.

That doesn't matter Because Sasuke was Overwhelmed by Madara's Meteors anyways.

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Sasuke needed to use his Susanoo against a Casual attack from Madara that he called rain-drops.

I.T is a Move Set of Madara just like shadow Clone is a Move set of Naruto.

Naruto needed 7 Buji RS just to take out 4 Meteors, with Sasuke's Help who was getting tried by them and overwhelmed

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A) The Ten tails isnt planet level, never was planet level. Cant scale to kaguya either since she is far above any ten tails JJ. While momoshiki casually eats this trees down that absorbed all the chakra from the planet and he can even create stars and planets in his dimensions. B) They were from the manga. And even then the movie is canon. C) The hypothesis was based off facts from otsutsuki history so it is to be taken seriously.

It doesn't matter what you think. What happens and stated in the canon is what matters. Obito with the blade of Nunoboko stated the weapon has the power to destroy the world. Madara>>>>>Blade of Nunoboko.

the Tree's Momoshiki was eating are weaker than the Tree's Kaguya and Madara absorbed which had Juubi Chakra. Momoshiki stated that 9 tails will become a God tree. That automatically makes the tree weaker by a shit ton since we have already established 10 tails Juubi>>>>>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tails.

That nice Madara Created a Dimension as well. Kaguya created 6. so how does Creating one Dimension ut him in Kaguya's League who had created 6 while all you alluded to is that Momoshiki may or May not have created just 1? your analogy doesn't add up and it doesn't make sense. 6>>>>1

until you can prove that Momoshiki made 6 dimensions he isn't on Kaguya's Level. Madara scales to Kaguya because his power was used to recreate her. so, he is at least 49-48% of her overall power. high ball 50% of her power.

It not because it was proven Wrong when Kages are able to fight them and not get one-shotted by them. Kaguya was able to One-shot Obito and would have one-shotted Naruto and Sasuke.

You contradict yourself again. You think the ten tails is beyond planet level yet think naruto and sasuke arent there? What? Naruto literally rips off limbs and forces kaguya into rabbit form who is above any ten tails JJ. Plus momoshiki scales to kaguya who is nigh solar system level and naruto and sasuke beat him so they are at that range.

Because Naruto and Sasuke were using the Weakens of The Juubi JJ to beat them, that doesn't prove they are stronger. that like using Kryptonite to beat Superman. Naruto did that after Kaguya was weakened not before when she was at 100% full power.

Um ok, momoshiki is still above him since he tanks RBSM punches while toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch. So i dont see your point.

Yet He was killed by Base Naruto who was weakened. Toneri got Knocked out by a 100% Naruto who wasn't weakened by having his chakra absorbed for several hours. While Momoshiki was killed by a less than 50% Naruto who had his chakra absorbed for several hours and had just got out of fight Momoshiki prior to that fight and still managed to kill Him while in base form.

This was out of shape Naruto, who hasn't fought seriously or trained in years and years to the point Boruto was upset that Naruto doesn't spend time with them at all.

And naruto without rikudou sage mode one shots this guy who was gonna destroy earth, yet you think naruto isnt even planet level. You do not go with your logic at all.

You need to head back to school to learn your before and after. Naruto knocked out Toneri Before he gained the power to destroy earth not After. Toneri Gained the power to destroy the earth at the end of the Movie. Naruto wasn't planet level because Toneri Only gained the Power to one shot and destroy the Earth when He Absorbed Naruto's power+1000s Of Byakugan+ Part of the Sun chakra.

Read the full text. when Naruto knocked out Tenseigan Toneri, He was using the Moon and Gravity to do the work and destroy the Earth. <------That is Multi-continental.

After He was defeated, Toneri then Absorbed all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan chakra+ Part of the Sun to one-shot the earth. <-----that is Planet Level.

all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan+Part of the Sun's Chakra=Planet Buster.

To be fair, he could've destroyed it over time/eventually, and since he's multi continental it's very possible. Plus he fought naruto and sasuke with the sword of nunoboku that you're trying to argue is planet level.

He was literally trying to kill them. And you're arguing for naruto but even going by this logic he still wasnt trying to kill sasuke, and he didnt die.

Yup, and that hit one shotted him. Plus naruto's sage mode rasengan is able to damage him.

He did, and naruto and sasuke didnt die.

No, he never said he would destroy it over time. he said he will destroy it.

Did you not Read the point why he lost? Stop using headcanon, and actually read the post. it not that hard to grasp since it literally stated in the manga scan I sent you.

they said The Attack was connected to Obito's soul, he lost because Naruto Talked him out of it.

You are making up your own Headcanon in this Debate which doesn't work at all.

Obito realized he was used by Madara... and Zetsu that is why in the end he was going to revive everyone that died in the war until Zetsu Took control over him and forced him to use it on Madara.

all Obito did that whole fight was blocked Attacks from Naruto and Sasuke and Dodge them. The only time he actually tried to kill them was when he was on Hashirama's Level of power and didn't have control over the Ten tails and was just attacking himself. once he gained full control over the Ten tails he never actually attack them with planet level attacks, Sage mode isn't an Argument as that like using Kryptonite against Superman and saying you are stronger because of it. OFC, you are going to do damage to him when you are using the one weakened they can't counter.

If you think otherwise make a Thread, with Juubi Obito vs BSM Naruto and SM Sasuke. With Obito blood lust and if everyone isn't just trolling or using headcanon they all will agree that Obito wins in a stomp.

You also forget that fact that Naruto and Sasuke Fused and mixed their powers together and while at 100% and even then they only won because Obito was Talked No Jutsu by Naruto into giving up and join them.

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Even then they had help from other people just accomplish this.

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Not only that they were being amped as well so it wasn't just Naruto and Sasuke.

While Momoshiki was one-shotted by 50% Naruto and Sasuke Fusing their powers together.

Had Naruto or Sasuke been 100% either one of them would have easily stomped Momoshiki 1 v 1 battle.

What chakra taxing jutsu? Transforming dimensions? Oh wait, she was teleporting... Plus naruto only tried it when he got mad, and then proceeds to force her into rabbit form. And naruto is actually able to hold his own against kaguya.

Getting mad doesn't raise your chakra this isn't DBZ. She was weakened. when she was 100% Naruto couldn't do anything and was getting one-shotted left and right.

2x is an insane lowball. Plus i dont see how madara scales to that anyways. Kaguya would be 10x stronger than madara just to be a lowball because if you heard the actual numbers you would call "BS" or "inconsistency" or "headcanon" or whatever.

That is Headcanon. like I said all Sasuke said was that I.T chakra was more powerful than the Ten tails.

Which we can say Madara is 48%-49% of Kaguya's Power; I.T being 52-51% of Kaguya's Power.

which would make the statement true. since I.T chakra> 3 eyed Madara.

Kaguya as a whole>>>>Ten tails chakra alone.

Kaguya is only 2x Madara as I said since everything that was stated is consistent with everything. Being Far Stronger doesn't mean 10x otherwise show me that proves that being Far stronger means you are 10x that person.

You don't need to be 10x stronger in order to be far stronger which is a fact this isn't DBZ buddy. stop trying to use their logic to power scale naruto. Kaguya is only 2x Madara because she needed Madara power who had a big chunk of her chakra. I.T alone isn't enough to bring Kaguya back. so yes Madara scales to her since she needed his power to revive.

Cool. Naruto's shadow clones still stalemated these 4x stronger limbo clones.

They didn't stalemate buddy. Naruto clone got beat easily after 2 panels.

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How is that Stalemating The Limbo's? when Naruto needed two clones just to hold down one limbo clone.

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Naruto+ Shadow clone was needed to stop one Limbo clones so how is he stalemating 4 limbos when 2 shadow clones are needed to stop just 1? FYI Madara can just make more.

Yeah, it would destroy the country, does that mean it's the max attack potency? No. Naruto in sage mode alone scales to the ten tails(since he one shotted juubidara) that's multi continental(or "Planet level" going by your logic) This logic can be used for the ten tails since it has never been stated to be able to, nor has destroyed a planet, so saying it would be able to is headcanon.(which it is either way)

who cares? You are speaking about unknowns and assumptions that you can't prove. I am going off what is canon and stated. the attack is only Country if Naruto+ Momoshiki attack collided together.

Momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan, and him losing to naruto and sasuke is a feat for them. Plus naruto was drained of half the nine tails, which is basically the same state he was when he swaps hands and rips off kaguya's limbs, and forces her into rabbit form to tank the attack.

Headcanon. He was just absorbing Chakra from the planet, in the novels...and in the manga, he was eating Chakra pills. so...no he wasn't weakened he was just killed after he got his powered raised. he just was weak.

Thats out of shape naruto from his prime, thats way above kaguya or madara, plus he needed help from sasuke to win that fight. Even then that would be a feat for naruto and momoshiki even standing a chance would put him above madara who is fodder to naruto at this point when hes obliterating kaguya's body with the tailed beasts rasenshurikens and ripping off her limbs. And this kaguya is far greater than madara.

What type of reverse power scaling is that? Naruto was losing to Madara, Kaguya was dumb which is why she lost. Naruto was at half power when he was stomping Momoshioki by himself. he didn't really need Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill Momoshiki Base Naruto did.

Kages were able to Fight Momoshiki clearly proves Momoshiki isn't on Kaguya or Madara's Level.

This was before momoshiki fight.

Actually no, thats a feat for sasuke since he had 13+ years of training.

Adult naruto/sasuke>>>Momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>>madara.

That was a month or so before Momoshiki arc happened. Boruto and his team were Genin then. The fact of the matter it proves my point.

Base Momoshiki was only above Base Naruto. you were just making claims that Base Naruto is equal to Kaguya. If that was so Naruto in just his base form should have been enough to take down Shin, casually with 0 diff. didn't, because Base Naruto isn't Kaguya level, Momoshiki isn't Madara level. the facts prove this.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>> Momoshiki

Naruto doesn't scale to Kaguya, because she was destroying him in combat. I told you the Reason why Naruto was able to chop off Kaguya's Hand. you have yet to counter that, I told you she was weakened then. because she needed to absorb More Chakra from I.T to gain her strength back when proves she was weakened when all that happened.

That doesn't matter Because Sasuke was Overwhelmed by Madara's Meteors anyways.

She really wasnt. Kaguya wasnt weakened at all, you have yet to prove she was. Plus she only absorbed the people in the I.T to make the ESTB not to get her chakra back.

He was easily taking them out just annoyed at how much there were. Plus naruto was casually one shotting them.

It doesn't matter what you think. What happens and stated in the canon is what matters. Obito with the blade of Nunoboko stated the weapon has the power to destroy the world. Madara>>>>>Blade of Nunoboko.

the Tree's Momoshiki was eating are weaker than the Tree's Kaguya and Madara absorbed which had Juubi Chakra. Momoshiki stated that 9 tails will become a God tree. That automatically makes the tree weaker by a shit ton since we have already established 10 tails Juubi>>>>>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tails.

That nice Madara Created a Dimension as well. Kaguya created 6. so how does Creating one Dimension ut him in Kaguya's League who had created 6 while all you alluded to is that Momoshiki may or May not have created just 1? your analogy doesn't add up and it doesn't make sense. 6>>>>1

until you can prove that Momoshiki made 6 dimensions he isn't on Kaguya's Level. Madara scales to Kaguya because his power was used to recreate her. so, he is at least 49-48% of her overall power. high ball 50% of her power.

It not because it was proven Wrong when Kages are able to fight them and not get one-shotted by them. Kaguya was able to One-shot Obito and would have one-shotted Naruto and Sasuke.

Yeah, overtime, any thing else needs to be proved by you. If it was used by the so6p i could see your argument.

The god tree momoshiki ate sucked the entire planet of it's chakra. Unless your trying to suggest the nine tails is above a planet. Plus momoshiki saying the 9 tails will become a new one means there about the same level, which would mean the god trees he ate were equal to if not above the one madara got. Just that it didnt have dna of the 1-8 tails, that are near fodder to the nine tails anyways.

You said creating a dimension means you're planet level. And momoshiki did it so by your logic he is planet level. Plus madara never made a dimension he made an illusion where he could control what happens.

Why would momoshiki need to make 6 dimensions to be on kaguya's level? Im confused there. Plus madara in no way scales to kaguya, at bare max hes 10%(or 10x weaker) of kaguya, he would be much weaker but you wouldnt believe the numbers so imma go with that to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Momoshiki one shotted the kages, plus they never actually fought him, unless you consider chasing someone fighting. Plus the kages are much stronger then they were when they fought madara. In fact, they were a different kages

Because Naruto and Sasuke were using the Weakens of The Juubi JJ to beat them, that doesn't prove they are stronger. that like using Kryptonite to beat Superman. Naruto did that after Kaguya was weakened not before when she was at 100% full power.

What was kaguya weakened by? What was madara weakened by when he got one shotted? What was juubito's durability weakened by when he got one shotted?

Yet He was killed by Base Naruto who was weakened. Toneri got Knocked out by a 100% Naruto who wasn't weakened by having his chakra absorbed for several hours. While Momoshiki was killed by a less than 50% Naruto who had his chakra absorbed for several hours and had just got out of fight Momoshiki prior to that fight and still managed to kill Him while in base form.

This was out of shape Naruto, who hasn't fought seriously or trained in years and years to the point Boruto was upset that Naruto doesn't spend time with them at all.

Momoshiki was weakened and badly beat when he died to the rasengan, a fact you ignore every post. Toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch, while momoshiki can tank RBSM punches from naruto.

What does naruto not spending time with boruto have to do with his power? Lol. Plus that was out of shape from his prime, which is like 10 years after naruto the last. Aka right before he became hokage.

You need to head back to school to learn your before and after. Naruto knocked out Toneri Before he gained the power to destroy earth not After. Toneri Gained the power to destroy the earth at the end of the Movie. Naruto wasn't planet level because Toneri Only gained the Power to one shot and destroy the Earth when He Absorbed Naruto's power+1000s Of Byakugan+ Part of the Sun chakra.

Read the full text. when Naruto knocked out Tenseigan Toneri, He was using the Moon and Gravity to do the work and destroy the Earth. <------That is Multi-continental.

After He was defeated, Toneri then Absorbed all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan chakra+ Part of the Sun to one-shot the earth. <-----that is Planet Level.

I was just going by your logic tbh. Also throwing the moon at earth doesnt make you planet level, maybe moon level.

No, he never said he would destroy it over time. he said he will destroy it.

Did you not Read the point why he lost? Stop using headcanon, and actually read the post. it not that hard to grasp since it literally stated in the manga scan I sent you.

they said The Attack was connected to Obito's soul, he lost because Naruto Talked him out of it.

You are making up your own Headcanon in this Debate which doesn't work at all.

Obito realized he was used by Madara... and Zetsu that is why in the end he was going to revive everyone that died in the war until Zetsu Took control over him and forced him to use it on Madara.

all Obito did that whole fight was blocked Attacks from Naruto and Sasuke and Dodge them. The only time he actually tried to kill them was when he was on Hashirama's Level of power and didn't have control over the Ten tails and was just attacking himself. once he gained full control over the Ten tails he never actually attack them with planet level attacks, Sage mode isn't an Argument as that like using Kryptonite against Superman and saying you are stronger because of it. OFC, you are going to do damage to him when you are using the one weakened they can't counter.

If you think otherwise make a Thread, with Juubi Obito vs BSM Naruto and SM Sasuke. With Obito blood lust and if everyone isn't just trolling or using headcanon they all will agree that Obito wins in a stomp.

You also forget that fact that Naruto and Sasuke Fused and mixed their powers together and while at 100% and even then they only won because Obito was Talked No Jutsu by Naruto into giving up and join them.

He never said he would one shot it either, he just said he would destroy it, and his feats lead us to believe he could do it over time.

Addressed above.

Your whole argument has been headcanon tbh.

Obito still got one shotted, talk no jutsu only weakened the sword not obito's durability

Sage jutsu actually doesnt weaken the juubi, it's just the only way to harm it in the naruto verse. That or so6p chakra. While kryptonite basically turns supes into a normal human. Way different story.

The fight would go the same, juubito gets talk no jutsu'd and one shotted.

He still got one shotted.

Not only that they were being amped as well so it wasn't just Naruto and Sasuke.

While Momoshiki was one-shotted by 50% Naruto and Sasuke Fusing their powers together.

Had Naruto or Sasuke been 100% either one of them would have easily stomped Momoshiki 1 v 1 battle.

I dont think you know what one shotted means, one shotting is taking someone out in one attack, not beating them up then landing the finishing blow with everything left you have.

In a 1v1 the fight would go the same as the 2v1.

That is Headcanon. like I said all Sasuke said was that I.T chakra was more powerful than the Ten tails.

Which we can say Madara is 48%-49% of Kaguya's Power; I.T being 52-51% of Kaguya's Power.

which would make the statement true. since I.T chakra> 3 eyed Madara.

Kaguya as a whole>>>>Ten tails chakra alone.

Kaguya is only 2x Madara as I said since everything that was stated is consistent with everything. Being Far Stronger doesn't mean 10x otherwise show me that proves that being Far stronger means you are 10x that person.

You don't need to be 10x stronger in order to be far stronger which is a fact this isn't DBZ buddy. stop trying to use their logic to power scale naruto. Kaguya is only 2x Madara because she needed Madara power who had a big chunk of her chakra. I.T alone isn't enough to bring Kaguya back. so yes Madara scales to her since she needed his power to revive.

He did? And if so the ten tails is weaker than i first thought.

Actually madara would be like 10% of her power(a highball for madara) and the I.T would be say 1% of it.

Dang then madara is weaker than i thought. Guess kcm2 naruto>>>>>>>>>>>juubidara then.

Lets see, kaguya one shots 1000 limbo level clones,(and limbo clones are basically madara but from another dimension i guess). So if we wanted to go to the max she could well be 1000x madara but seems insane, i know, so im just gonna lowball it to 10x.

They didn't stalemate buddy. Naruto clone got beat easily after 2 panels.

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How is that Stalemating The Limbo's? when Naruto needed two clones just to hold down one limbo clone.

You literally showed me a scan of them fighting evenly with each limbo. They never got beat they only disappeared because of the I.T.

What? You showed me a scan of each clone 1v1ing a limbo. You're just making things up that isnt even on the scan you show(which is what you do alot tbh)

who cares? You are speaking about unknowns and assumptions that you can't prove. I am going off what is canon and stated. the attack is only Country if Naruto+ Momoshiki attack collided together.

Im going off canon aswell. Canon statement suggest that attack is nigh solar system level since kaguya could make an attack at that level and momoshiki>kaguya.

Headcanon. He was just absorbing Chakra from the planet, in the novels...and in the manga, he was eating Chakra pills. so...no he wasn't weakened he was just killed after he got his powered raised. he just was weak.

He wasnt absorbing any chakra, he was just going off one set of pills and the fodder ninjutsu, plus he got beaten badly right before that.

What type of reverse power scaling is that? Naruto was losing to Madara, Kaguya was dumb which is why she lost. Naruto was at half power when he was stomping Momoshioki by himself. he didn't really need Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill Momoshiki Base Naruto did.

Kages were able to Fight Momoshiki clearly proves Momoshiki isn't on Kaguya or Madara's Level.

Naruto was never losing to madara... he stalemates his limbo clones that are basically madara with shadow clones alone.

Kages never fought momoshiki, unless you consider getting one shotted or chasing someone fighting them.

That was a month or so before Momoshiki arc happened. Boruto and his team were Genin then. The fact of the matter it proves my point.

Base Momoshiki was only above Base Naruto. you were just making claims that Base Naruto is equal to Kaguya. If that was so Naruto in just his base form should have been enough to take down Shin, casually with 0 diff. didn't, because Base Naruto isn't Kaguya level, Momoshiki isn't Madara level. the facts prove this.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>> Momoshiki

I never said base naruto>kaguya lol. You're putting words in my mouth. And naruto didnt really fight shin, shin just got a sucker punch in with sasuke's sword and thats about it. Momoshiki by feats alone puts him above madara, this is saying the statement isnt even valid, momoshiki still>>>madara even without the statement.

Naruto/sasuke>>>>>momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>madara

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#463 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

Naruto scales to kaguya since he could rip off her arm and force her into rabbit form to survive. Now you're trying to say madara> naruto because he got off the I.T? That makes no sense since naruto was focused on the meteors. I see you're trying your very best to ignore my points and make the worst ones. And naruto never lost to madara.

Naruto doesn't scale to Kaguya, because she was destroying him in combat. I told you the Reason why Naruto was able to chop off Kaguya's Hand. you have yet to counter that, I told you she was weakened then. because she needed to absorb More Chakra from I.T to gain her strength back when proves she was weakened when all that happened.

That doesn't matter Because Sasuke was Overwhelmed by Madara's Meteors anyways.

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Sasuke needed to use his Susanoo against a Casual attack from Madara that he called rain-drops.

I.T is a Move Set of Madara just like shadow Clone is a Move set of Naruto.

Naruto needed 7 Buji RS just to take out 4 Meteors, with Sasuke's Help who was getting tried by them and overwhelmed

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A) The Ten tails isnt planet level, never was planet level. Cant scale to kaguya either since she is far above any ten tails JJ. While momoshiki casually eats this trees down that absorbed all the chakra from the planet and he can even create stars and planets in his dimensions. B) They were from the manga. And even then the movie is canon. C) The hypothesis was based off facts from otsutsuki history so it is to be taken seriously.

It doesn't matter what you think. What happens and stated in the canon is what matters. Obito with the blade of Nunoboko stated the weapon has the power to destroy the world. Madara>>>>>Blade of Nunoboko.

the Tree's Momoshiki was eating are weaker than the Tree's Kaguya and Madara absorbed which had Juubi Chakra. Momoshiki stated that 9 tails will become a God tree. That automatically makes the tree weaker by a shit ton since we have already established 10 tails Juubi>>>>>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tails.

That nice Madara Created a Dimension as well. Kaguya created 6. so how does Creating one Dimension ut him in Kaguya's League who had created 6 while all you alluded to is that Momoshiki may or May not have created just 1? your analogy doesn't add up and it doesn't make sense. 6>>>>1

until you can prove that Momoshiki made 6 dimensions he isn't on Kaguya's Level. Madara scales to Kaguya because his power was used to recreate her. so, he is at least 49-48% of her overall power. high ball 50% of her power.

It not because it was proven Wrong when Kages are able to fight them and not get one-shotted by them. Kaguya was able to One-shot Obito and would have one-shotted Naruto and Sasuke.

You contradict yourself again. You think the ten tails is beyond planet level yet think naruto and sasuke arent there? What? Naruto literally rips off limbs and forces kaguya into rabbit form who is above any ten tails JJ. Plus momoshiki scales to kaguya who is nigh solar system level and naruto and sasuke beat him so they are at that range.

Because Naruto and Sasuke were using the Weakens of The Juubi JJ to beat them, that doesn't prove they are stronger. that like using Kryptonite to beat Superman. Naruto did that after Kaguya was weakened not before when she was at 100% full power.

Um ok, momoshiki is still above him since he tanks RBSM punches while toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch. So i dont see your point.

Yet He was killed by Base Naruto who was weakened. Toneri got Knocked out by a 100% Naruto who wasn't weakened by having his chakra absorbed for several hours. While Momoshiki was killed by a less than 50% Naruto who had his chakra absorbed for several hours and had just got out of fight Momoshiki prior to that fight and still managed to kill Him while in base form.

This was out of shape Naruto, who hasn't fought seriously or trained in years and years to the point Boruto was upset that Naruto doesn't spend time with them at all.

And naruto without rikudou sage mode one shots this guy who was gonna destroy earth, yet you think naruto isnt even planet level. You do not go with your logic at all.

You need to head back to school to learn your before and after. Naruto knocked out Toneri Before he gained the power to destroy earth not After. Toneri Gained the power to destroy the earth at the end of the Movie. Naruto wasn't planet level because Toneri Only gained the Power to one shot and destroy the Earth when He Absorbed Naruto's power+1000s Of Byakugan+ Part of the Sun chakra.

Read the full text. when Naruto knocked out Tenseigan Toneri, He was using the Moon and Gravity to do the work and destroy the Earth. <------That is Multi-continental.

After He was defeated, Toneri then Absorbed all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan chakra+ Part of the Sun to one-shot the earth. <-----that is Planet Level.

all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan+Part of the Sun's Chakra=Planet Buster.

To be fair, he could've destroyed it over time/eventually, and since he's multi continental it's very possible. Plus he fought naruto and sasuke with the sword of nunoboku that you're trying to argue is planet level.

He was literally trying to kill them. And you're arguing for naruto but even going by this logic he still wasnt trying to kill sasuke, and he didnt die.

Yup, and that hit one shotted him. Plus naruto's sage mode rasengan is able to damage him.

He did, and naruto and sasuke didnt die.

No, he never said he would destroy it over time. he said he will destroy it.

Did you not Read the point why he lost? Stop using headcanon, and actually read the post. it not that hard to grasp since it literally stated in the manga scan I sent you.

they said The Attack was connected to Obito's soul, he lost because Naruto Talked him out of it.

You are making up your own Headcanon in this Debate which doesn't work at all.

Obito realized he was used by Madara... and Zetsu that is why in the end he was going to revive everyone that died in the war until Zetsu Took control over him and forced him to use it on Madara.

all Obito did that whole fight was blocked Attacks from Naruto and Sasuke and Dodge them. The only time he actually tried to kill them was when he was on Hashirama's Level of power and didn't have control over the Ten tails and was just attacking himself. once he gained full control over the Ten tails he never actually attack them with planet level attacks, Sage mode isn't an Argument as that like using Kryptonite against Superman and saying you are stronger because of it. OFC, you are going to do damage to him when you are using the one weakened they can't counter.

If you think otherwise make a Thread, with Juubi Obito vs BSM Naruto and SM Sasuke. With Obito blood lust and if everyone isn't just trolling or using headcanon they all will agree that Obito wins in a stomp.

You also forget that fact that Naruto and Sasuke Fused and mixed their powers together and while at 100% and even then they only won because Obito was Talked No Jutsu by Naruto into giving up and join them.

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Even then they had help from other people just accomplish this.

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Not only that they were being amped as well so it wasn't just Naruto and Sasuke.

While Momoshiki was one-shotted by 50% Naruto and Sasuke Fusing their powers together.

Had Naruto or Sasuke been 100% either one of them would have easily stomped Momoshiki 1 v 1 battle.

What chakra taxing jutsu? Transforming dimensions? Oh wait, she was teleporting... Plus naruto only tried it when he got mad, and then proceeds to force her into rabbit form. And naruto is actually able to hold his own against kaguya.

Getting mad doesn't raise your chakra this isn't DBZ. She was weakened. when she was 100% Naruto couldn't do anything and was getting one-shotted left and right.

2x is an insane lowball. Plus i dont see how madara scales to that anyways. Kaguya would be 10x stronger than madara just to be a lowball because if you heard the actual numbers you would call "BS" or "inconsistency" or "headcanon" or whatever.

That is Headcanon. like I said all Sasuke said was that I.T chakra was more powerful than the Ten tails.

Which we can say Madara is 48%-49% of Kaguya's Power; I.T being 52-51% of Kaguya's Power.

which would make the statement true. since I.T chakra> 3 eyed Madara.

Kaguya as a whole>>>>Ten tails chakra alone.

Kaguya is only 2x Madara as I said since everything that was stated is consistent with everything. Being Far Stronger doesn't mean 10x otherwise show me that proves that being Far stronger means you are 10x that person.

You don't need to be 10x stronger in order to be far stronger which is a fact this isn't DBZ buddy. stop trying to use their logic to power scale naruto. Kaguya is only 2x Madara because she needed Madara power who had a big chunk of her chakra. I.T alone isn't enough to bring Kaguya back. so yes Madara scales to her since she needed his power to revive.

Cool. Naruto's shadow clones still stalemated these 4x stronger limbo clones.

They didn't stalemate buddy. Naruto clone got beat easily after 2 panels.

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How is that Stalemating The Limbo's? when Naruto needed two clones just to hold down one limbo clone.

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Naruto+ Shadow clone was needed to stop one Limbo clones so how is he stalemating 4 limbos when 2 shadow clones are needed to stop just 1? FYI Madara can just make more.

Yeah, it would destroy the country, does that mean it's the max attack potency? No. Naruto in sage mode alone scales to the ten tails(since he one shotted juubidara) that's multi continental(or "Planet level" going by your logic) This logic can be used for the ten tails since it has never been stated to be able to, nor has destroyed a planet, so saying it would be able to is headcanon.(which it is either way)

who cares? You are speaking about unknowns and assumptions that you can't prove. I am going off what is canon and stated. the attack is only Country if Naruto+ Momoshiki attack collided together.

Momoshiki was weakened when he got hit by the rasengan, and him losing to naruto and sasuke is a feat for them. Plus naruto was drained of half the nine tails, which is basically the same state he was when he swaps hands and rips off kaguya's limbs, and forces her into rabbit form to tank the attack.

Headcanon. He was just absorbing Chakra from the planet, in the novels...and in the manga, he was eating Chakra pills. so...no he wasn't weakened he was just killed after he got his powered raised. he just was weak.

Thats out of shape naruto from his prime, thats way above kaguya or madara, plus he needed help from sasuke to win that fight. Even then that would be a feat for naruto and momoshiki even standing a chance would put him above madara who is fodder to naruto at this point when hes obliterating kaguya's body with the tailed beasts rasenshurikens and ripping off her limbs. And this kaguya is far greater than madara.

What type of reverse power scaling is that? Naruto was losing to Madara, Kaguya was dumb which is why she lost. Naruto was at half power when he was stomping Momoshioki by himself. he didn't really need Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill Momoshiki Base Naruto did.

Kages were able to Fight Momoshiki clearly proves Momoshiki isn't on Kaguya or Madara's Level.

This was before momoshiki fight.

Actually no, thats a feat for sasuke since he had 13+ years of training.

Adult naruto/sasuke>>>Momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>>madara.

That was a month or so before Momoshiki arc happened. Boruto and his team were Genin then. The fact of the matter it proves my point.

Base Momoshiki was only above Base Naruto. you were just making claims that Base Naruto is equal to Kaguya. If that was so Naruto in just his base form should have been enough to take down Shin, casually with 0 diff. didn't, because Base Naruto isn't Kaguya level, Momoshiki isn't Madara level. the facts prove this.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>> Momoshiki

Naruto doesn't scale to Kaguya, because she was destroying him in combat. I told you the Reason why Naruto was able to chop off Kaguya's Hand. you have yet to counter that, I told you she was weakened then. because she needed to absorb More Chakra from I.T to gain her strength back when proves she was weakened when all that happened.

That doesn't matter Because Sasuke was Overwhelmed by Madara's Meteors anyways.

She really wasnt. Kaguya wasnt weakened at all, you have yet to prove she was. Plus she only absorbed the people in the I.T to make the ESTB not to get her chakra back.

He was easily taking them out just annoyed at how much there were. Plus naruto was casually one shotting them.

It doesn't matter what you think. What happens and stated in the canon is what matters. Obito with the blade of Nunoboko stated the weapon has the power to destroy the world. Madara>>>>>Blade of Nunoboko.

the Tree's Momoshiki was eating are weaker than the Tree's Kaguya and Madara absorbed which had Juubi Chakra. Momoshiki stated that 9 tails will become a God tree. That automatically makes the tree weaker by a shit ton since we have already established 10 tails Juubi>>>>>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tails.

That nice Madara Created a Dimension as well. Kaguya created 6. so how does Creating one Dimension ut him in Kaguya's League who had created 6 while all you alluded to is that Momoshiki may or May not have created just 1? your analogy doesn't add up and it doesn't make sense. 6>>>>1

until you can prove that Momoshiki made 6 dimensions he isn't on Kaguya's Level. Madara scales to Kaguya because his power was used to recreate her. so, he is at least 49-48% of her overall power. high ball 50% of her power.

It not because it was proven Wrong when Kages are able to fight them and not get one-shotted by them. Kaguya was able to One-shot Obito and would have one-shotted Naruto and Sasuke.

Yeah, overtime, any thing else needs to be proved by you. If it was used by the so6p i could see your argument.

The god tree momoshiki ate sucked the entire planet of it's chakra. Unless your trying to suggest the nine tails is above a planet. Plus momoshiki saying the 9 tails will become a new one means there about the same level, which would mean the god trees he ate were equal to if not above the one madara got. Just that it didnt have dna of the 1-8 tails, that are near fodder to the nine tails anyways.

You said creating a dimension means you're planet level. And momoshiki did it so by your logic he is planet level. Plus madara never made a dimension he made an illusion where he could control what happens.

Why would momoshiki need to make 6 dimensions to be on kaguya's level? Im confused there. Plus madara in no way scales to kaguya, at bare max hes 10%(or 10x weaker) of kaguya, he would be much weaker but you wouldnt believe the numbers so imma go with that to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Momoshiki one shotted the kages, plus they never actually fought him, unless you consider chasing someone fighting. Plus the kages are much stronger then they were when they fought madara. In fact, they were a different kages

Because Naruto and Sasuke were using the Weakens of The Juubi JJ to beat them, that doesn't prove they are stronger. that like using Kryptonite to beat Superman. Naruto did that after Kaguya was weakened not before when she was at 100% full power.

What was kaguya weakened by? What was madara weakened by when he got one shotted? What was juubito's durability weakened by when he got one shotted?

Yet He was killed by Base Naruto who was weakened. Toneri got Knocked out by a 100% Naruto who wasn't weakened by having his chakra absorbed for several hours. While Momoshiki was killed by a less than 50% Naruto who had his chakra absorbed for several hours and had just got out of fight Momoshiki prior to that fight and still managed to kill Him while in base form.

This was out of shape Naruto, who hasn't fought seriously or trained in years and years to the point Boruto was upset that Naruto doesn't spend time with them at all.

Momoshiki was weakened and badly beat when he died to the rasengan, a fact you ignore every post. Toneri got one shotted by a kcm chakra punch, while momoshiki can tank RBSM punches from naruto.

What does naruto not spending time with boruto have to do with his power? Lol. Plus that was out of shape from his prime, which is like 10 years after naruto the last. Aka right before he became hokage.

You need to head back to school to learn your before and after. Naruto knocked out Toneri Before he gained the power to destroy earth not After. Toneri Gained the power to destroy the earth at the end of the Movie. Naruto wasn't planet level because Toneri Only gained the Power to one shot and destroy the Earth when He Absorbed Naruto's power+1000s Of Byakugan+ Part of the Sun chakra.

Read the full text. when Naruto knocked out Tenseigan Toneri, He was using the Moon and Gravity to do the work and destroy the Earth. <------That is Multi-continental.

After He was defeated, Toneri then Absorbed all of Naruto chakra+1000s Byakugan chakra+ Part of the Sun to one-shot the earth. <-----that is Planet Level.

I was just going by your logic tbh. Also throwing the moon at earth doesnt make you planet level, maybe moon level.

No, he never said he would destroy it over time. he said he will destroy it.

Did you not Read the point why he lost? Stop using headcanon, and actually read the post. it not that hard to grasp since it literally stated in the manga scan I sent you.

they said The Attack was connected to Obito's soul, he lost because Naruto Talked him out of it.

You are making up your own Headcanon in this Debate which doesn't work at all.

Obito realized he was used by Madara... and Zetsu that is why in the end he was going to revive everyone that died in the war until Zetsu Took control over him and forced him to use it on Madara.

all Obito did that whole fight was blocked Attacks from Naruto and Sasuke and Dodge them. The only time he actually tried to kill them was when he was on Hashirama's Level of power and didn't have control over the Ten tails and was just attacking himself. once he gained full control over the Ten tails he never actually attack them with planet level attacks, Sage mode isn't an Argument as that like using Kryptonite against Superman and saying you are stronger because of it. OFC, you are going to do damage to him when you are using the one weakened they can't counter.

If you think otherwise make a Thread, with Juubi Obito vs BSM Naruto and SM Sasuke. With Obito blood lust and if everyone isn't just trolling or using headcanon they all will agree that Obito wins in a stomp.

You also forget that fact that Naruto and Sasuke Fused and mixed their powers together and while at 100% and even then they only won because Obito was Talked No Jutsu by Naruto into giving up and join them.

He never said he would one shot it either, he just said he would destroy it, and his feats lead us to believe he could do it over time.

Addressed above.

Your whole argument has been headcanon tbh.

Obito still got one shotted, talk no jutsu only weakened the sword not obito's durability

Sage jutsu actually doesnt weaken the juubi, it's just the only way to harm it in the naruto verse. That or so6p chakra. While kryptonite basically turns supes into a normal human. Way different story.

The fight would go the same, juubito gets talk no jutsu'd and one shotted.

He still got one shotted.

Not only that they were being amped as well so it wasn't just Naruto and Sasuke.

While Momoshiki was one-shotted by 50% Naruto and Sasuke Fusing their powers together.

Had Naruto or Sasuke been 100% either one of them would have easily stomped Momoshiki 1 v 1 battle.

I dont think you know what one shotted means, one shotting is taking someone out in one attack, not beating them up then landing the finishing blow with everything left you have.

In a 1v1 the fight would go the same as the 2v1.

That is Headcanon. like I said all Sasuke said was that I.T chakra was more powerful than the Ten tails.

Which we can say Madara is 48%-49% of Kaguya's Power; I.T being 52-51% of Kaguya's Power.

which would make the statement true. since I.T chakra> 3 eyed Madara.

Kaguya as a whole>>>>Ten tails chakra alone.

Kaguya is only 2x Madara as I said since everything that was stated is consistent with everything. Being Far Stronger doesn't mean 10x otherwise show me that proves that being Far stronger means you are 10x that person.

You don't need to be 10x stronger in order to be far stronger which is a fact this isn't DBZ buddy. stop trying to use their logic to power scale naruto. Kaguya is only 2x Madara because she needed Madara power who had a big chunk of her chakra. I.T alone isn't enough to bring Kaguya back. so yes Madara scales to her since she needed his power to revive.

He did? And if so the ten tails is weaker than i first thought.

Actually madara would be like 10% of her power(a highball for madara) and the I.T would be say 1% of it.

Dang then madara is weaker than i thought. Guess kcm2 naruto>>>>>>>>>>>juubidara then.

Lets see, kaguya one shots 1000 limbo level clones,(and limbo clones are basically madara but from another dimension i guess). So if we wanted to go to the max she could well be 1000x madara but seems insane, i know, so im just gonna lowball it to 10x.

They didn't stalemate buddy. Naruto clone got beat easily after 2 panels.

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How is that Stalemating The Limbo's? when Naruto needed two clones just to hold down one limbo clone.

You literally showed me a scan of them fighting evenly with each limbo. They never got beat they only disappeared because of the I.T.

What? You showed me a scan of each clone 1v1ing a limbo. You're just making things up that isnt even on the scan you show(which is what you do alot tbh)

who cares? You are speaking about unknowns and assumptions that you can't prove. I am going off what is canon and stated. the attack is only Country if Naruto+ Momoshiki attack collided together.

Im going off canon aswell. Canon statement suggest that attack is nigh solar system level since kaguya could make an attack at that level and momoshiki>kaguya.

Headcanon. He was just absorbing Chakra from the planet, in the novels...and in the manga, he was eating Chakra pills. so...no he wasn't weakened he was just killed after he got his powered raised. he just was weak.

He wasnt absorbing any chakra, he was just going off one set of pills and the fodder ninjutsu, plus he got beaten badly right before that.

What type of reverse power scaling is that? Naruto was losing to Madara, Kaguya was dumb which is why she lost. Naruto was at half power when he was stomping Momoshioki by himself. he didn't really need Sasuke, Sasuke didn't kill Momoshiki Base Naruto did.

Kages were able to Fight Momoshiki clearly proves Momoshiki isn't on Kaguya or Madara's Level.

Naruto was never losing to madara... he stalemates his limbo clones that are basically madara with shadow clones alone.

Kages never fought momoshiki, unless you consider getting one shotted or chasing someone fighting them.

That was a month or so before Momoshiki arc happened. Boruto and his team were Genin then. The fact of the matter it proves my point.

Base Momoshiki was only above Base Naruto. you were just making claims that Base Naruto is equal to Kaguya. If that was so Naruto in just his base form should have been enough to take down Shin, casually with 0 diff. didn't, because Base Naruto isn't Kaguya level, Momoshiki isn't Madara level. the facts prove this.

Kaguya>Madara>>Hagoromo>>Adult Naruto=Adult Sasuke>> Momoshiki

I never said base naruto>kaguya lol. You're putting words in my mouth. And naruto didnt really fight shin, shin just got a sucker punch in with sasuke's sword and thats about it. Momoshiki by feats alone puts him above madara, this is saying the statement isnt even valid, momoshiki still>>>madara even without the statement.

Naruto/sasuke>>>>>momoshiki>kaguya>hagoromo>>>>madara

I proved she was weakened when BZ Stated she uses Massive chakra Transforming dimensions.

the fact that She was one-shotting Naruto prior to that, then getting hard arm chopped off proves she was weakened. Naruto getting angry is irrelevant there is no Rage boost in Naruto series. Regardless of him getting mad when he did this His power wouldn't get any higher than what it was.

annoyed? He was overwhelmed by the Meteors and the fact I repeated said this was casual feat by Madara. If Naruto was above Madara he would have been able to destroy that Meteor in just one move. he needed Several+Sasuke's help to destroy them.

If Kaguya needs I.T for ESTB, then you can't say she is much stronger than Madara since ESTB make her Star level in the first place.

LMFAO. did you not read the manga? Obito stated the Sage of Six paths used that Sword to create everything. Obito stated he was going to destroy it with the same sword. yes, Obito sword is planet level. that why They survived because they weakened the sword which=Planet level.

Madara>>>>>>That sword=Planet level.

9 tail isn't planet level Even if it was that means you also admit the 10 tails is beyond planet level since 9 tails are part of the 10 tails power.

1st Form 10 tail>>>>>>>100% Full 9 tail.

Kaguya's Planet>>>>>>Momoshiki's planet.

Madara scales To Kaguya Because She needed him to revive. As I already explained, if I.T was enough then she would have used that to come back. since you admitted She needed I.T to create ESTB which equals Star level she isn't that far above Madara at all.

You can't say Momoshiki scales to Kaguya, she made 6 dimensions. Momoshiki hasn't done anything like that on screen. Madada scales to her Because he instantly created a dimension on screen. Momoshiki's on-screen feats are knocking out Naruto who isn't even planet level. Fighting Killer Bee off Screen who isn't even planet, Fighting Kages who isn't even planet level and then getting killed by Base Naruto who isn't even planet level.

Madara's feats: creating a Dimension with I.T Above Planet level.

using the God Tree Roots to capture all the Victims trapped in I.T planet level.

Dropping near country Sized Meteors casually.

Madara's Feats>>>>>>>Momoshiki's Feats.

Nope blood lust Obito would kill Naruto and Sasuke. Obito in his fight wasn't blood lust if he was naruto dies.

Sage Mode chakra is the Weakness of Juubi JJ.

Momoshiki wasn't weakened he is just not as powerful as you think he is. He ran from Kages who is not a planet level. Base Naruto isn't planet level to the point Shin Could fight Naruto while he is in BSM

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Literally couldn't even Dodge this attack that was right in front of him.

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If you look on the bottom Left Sage in using Base Rinnegan this was after he open portal back from another Dimension. so if Sasuke Get weakened to the point Shin can fight him, why wouldn't Kaguya be weakened by using chakra to teleport to other dimensions?

are you implying that he Chakra never get weakened by using chakra like that?

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instead of Just catching these slow Attacks Sasuke uses his body as a Shield. So they are clearly not Light speed otherwise they would have blinked and one-shotted Shin.

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The only way for his Battle sense to grow dull is if he hasn't been battling. which is proven here when Shin can make him struggle none of these guys are Kaguya, Madara, Obito or even Nagato level.

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You are being a Hypocrite because you ignore every post that isn't wanking or high balling Momoshiki. every post That I debunked you doesn't acknowledge it at all. Momoshiki was one-shot by Base Naruto after he had just got done eating pills and getting his second wind back. if a 50% Naruto with two punches can casually Knockback Momoshiki

Naruto+ Sasuke Fusing chakra one-shotted Momoshiki...then 100% Naruto or Sasuke one-shots Momoshiki.

100% Naruto=Naruto+Sasuke 50% fused chakra>>Fused Momoshiki

Naruto one-shotted Toneri Before Toneri Gained the power to one-shot the Earth which you keep ignoring.

Doesn't matter what Naruto did to him, because after that fight Toneri Absorbed Naruto's+1000 Byakugan+The sun powers.

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^ that is Toneri After he absorbed NAruto's Power+1000 Byakugan+ the Sun's power.

He was going to one-shot the earth with that power. Naruto didn't do shit to this Toneri and was helpless.

What Naruto did To Tenseigan Toneri isn't relevant to this Toneri, because this Toneri is leagues more powerful.

the Toneri Naruto knocked out was continental to Multi Continental level.

Blob Toneri that was going to destroy the earth is planet buster.

MAdara>>>>>>That Toneri>>>Momoshiki.

the Scan shows NAruto's shadow Clones throwing a Punch and the Limbo clones blocking the punch. so no they are not even. like I said NAruto lost to them.

Naruto isn't above Juubimadara because Like I said Madara is above Planet level.

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Naruto couldn't even stop this Toneri who was planet level.

Madara>>>>Planet level>>>>>>>>Naruto.

No, you are using headcanon. Because Momoshiki isn't On Kaguya level he got beaten by Naruto who was out of shape, and at 50% of his powers. As I proved above 100% Naruto would one shot Momoshiki.

100% Naruto=Naruto+Sasuke 50% Fused chakra>>Fused Momoshiki.

Naruto and Sasuke both at 50% fusing their chakra one-shotted Momoshiki.

So 100% Adult NAruto one-shot Momoshiki.

doesn't matter what happened to him prior because he Ate Pills and got stronger, not only that he gained new Jutsu as well and still got one-shotted by Base Naruto.

Yes, Madara limbo owned Naruto because Naruto clones lost to them. they blocked attack from Naruto each and then we later see that They beat Naruto's Clones. This was without them using Jutsu which Kishimoto stated they have the same abilities as Madara.

If we are being honest here, invisible light Fang one-shots Naruto clones casually. and since they can't see it coming they have no way to counter it.

Well, you did say that Base Momoshiki was Kaguya level. I proved that wrong. you just said He uses Pills for everyone yet he ran from the Kages because he knew he couldn't beat them at all unless he eats pills.

Naruto is weaker now then he was back then as I've shown. He needs BSM For Shin and stated that he will fight Serious because of MS. then we later see that Naruto couldn't even dodge an MHS+ attack when you told me before he could dodge KAguya and Madara attacks.

That proves he weaker buddy.

Avatar image for mygod000
#464 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

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Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#465 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

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Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

Madara never surpassed hagoromo, you would have to use headcanon to come to that conclusion. Unless you can show evidence that madara is above him.

Plus this wasnt even his sage mode or so6p chakra, just his kcm chakra that toneri absorbed.

Its only stated by you to be able to destroy the world with a single blow, not by kishimoto. Your word isnt fact. And the so6p making the world with it doesnt mean obito can with it, unless you're suggesting obito=hagoromo, then naruto and sasuke(pre so6p buffs) would be able to one shot hagoromo.

Momoshiki had naruto's chakra too. Plus you said toneri only absorbed some of the power which would be enought to destroy a planet by throwing the moon at it. I'd rank that feat around moon-planet level. While momoshiki casually eats god trees that can absorb chakra from the entire planet.

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

He was seeing the resemblance in kaguya and momoshiki. Which is what scared him.

Sasuke never says kaguya is above them. You're again making stuff up that isnt even on the panel you show.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

Headcanon, jigen wasnt coming for kaguya. Kaguya was making an army for the one(s) that were coming for her, and it was momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Yes?

How does madara having a ten tails put him above momoshiki?

Actually no, you've just used headcanon and changed what the manga scan says to fit your argument. In reality momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>madara. Even by feats alone momoshiki>>>>>>>>madara

Avatar image for mygod000
#466 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
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Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

No Caption Provided

Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

Madara never surpassed hagoromo, you would have to use headcanon to come to that conclusion. Unless you can show evidence that madara is above him.

Plus this wasnt even his sage mode or so6p chakra, just his kcm chakra that toneri absorbed.

Its only stated by you to be able to destroy the world with a single blow, not by kishimoto. Your word isnt fact. And the so6p making the world with it doesnt mean obito can with it, unless you're suggesting obito=hagoromo, then naruto and sasuke(pre so6p buffs) would be able to one shot hagoromo.

Momoshiki had naruto's chakra too. Plus you said toneri only absorbed some of the power which would be enought to destroy a planet by throwing the moon at it. I'd rank that feat around moon-planet level. While momoshiki casually eats god trees that can absorb chakra from the entire planet.

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

He was seeing the resemblance in kaguya and momoshiki. Which is what scared him.

Sasuke never says kaguya is above them. You're again making stuff up that isnt even on the panel you show.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

Headcanon, jigen wasnt coming for kaguya. Kaguya was making an army for the one(s) that were coming for her, and it was momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Yes?

How does madara having a ten tails put him above momoshiki?

Actually no, you've just used headcanon and changed what the manga scan says to fit your argument. In reality momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>madara. Even by feats alone momoshiki>>>>>>>>madara

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#467 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

No Caption Provided

Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

No Caption Provided

Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

Madara never surpassed hagoromo, you would have to use headcanon to come to that conclusion. Unless you can show evidence that madara is above him.

Plus this wasnt even his sage mode or so6p chakra, just his kcm chakra that toneri absorbed.

Its only stated by you to be able to destroy the world with a single blow, not by kishimoto. Your word isnt fact. And the so6p making the world with it doesnt mean obito can with it, unless you're suggesting obito=hagoromo, then naruto and sasuke(pre so6p buffs) would be able to one shot hagoromo.

Momoshiki had naruto's chakra too. Plus you said toneri only absorbed some of the power which would be enought to destroy a planet by throwing the moon at it. I'd rank that feat around moon-planet level. While momoshiki casually eats god trees that can absorb chakra from the entire planet.

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

He was seeing the resemblance in kaguya and momoshiki. Which is what scared him.

Sasuke never says kaguya is above them. You're again making stuff up that isnt even on the panel you show.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

Headcanon, jigen wasnt coming for kaguya. Kaguya was making an army for the one(s) that were coming for her, and it was momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Yes?

How does madara having a ten tails put him above momoshiki?

Actually no, you've just used headcanon and changed what the manga scan says to fit your argument. In reality momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>madara. Even by feats alone momoshiki>>>>>>>>madara

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, he absorbed nine tails chakra, thats what we see coming out of naruto when toneri absorbs it too. And why would he go after sasuke? Naruto has much more chakra. And naruto still didnt use sage mode so yeah. Which is irrelevant anyways cuz we only see nine tails chakra coming out.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

NUNS4 isnt even canon lol. But since you're gonna add it to this debate ill use it too. I guess kaguya is universal since she casually destroys her dimensions that have a whole universe in it. This is with rabbit form alone too and kakashi beat it. Universal DMS kakashi confirmed. Oh and naruto and current sasuke is above him. Plus madara was getting rekt by naruto and sasuke and was badly beaten in the game while naruto and sasuke had no scratches on them. Universal naruto and sasuke confirmed lol. While madara with wank is planet level lol. Itachi has a perfect susanno too. Plus pre god tree madara was getting close to hagoromo, which means he wasnt even close just getting there. Plus he was referring to madara trying to get power near kaguya. Sasuke even says this was the one the so6p was talking about, implying post god tree is still getting close to hagoromo and isnt even close. Lol. Like i said, you would have to use insane headcanon to suggest madara is on hagoromo's level, let alone above it.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Yet you think naruto isnt planet level yet apparently juubito is. Sigh.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Screaming and getting scratches on your body and getting bloodied is tanking an attack with barely any damage? And since you wanna use the games madara gets obliterated by the attack his body is covered in scratches by it.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

Jigen might be above kaguya, but facts suggest momoshiki is too. Its stated kaguya was afraid of who the otsutsuki was gonna send for her, and that person was momoshiki. Plus jigen cant even take out a holding back base naruto with a surprise attack. Also idk why you mentioned momoshiki wanted a ten tails.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

Rankings dont really show who is stronger. Thats like saying EOS naruto and current sasuke are fodder because they are still genin.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Momoshiki WAS searching those 1000 years, and finally found her in boruto. Kinshiki also informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world(planet) implying they were looking for it. Momoshiki even asks sasuke for information on kaguya.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The 10 tails doesnt have planet level power, nothing suggests it, and you failed to prove it. The I.T comes from the rinne sharingan, which you need the 10 tails+god tree to do. Plus momoshiki created his own dimensions. Also making a dimension doesnt mean you're planet level, thats like saying zetsu obito is planet level since he had the kamui dimension.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Momoshiki also ate god trees, and even recreates them in his dimensions.

Again, Momoshiki>>>>>>>>>>>madara

Fixed.

Edit: And since you wanna go with the games, sasuke's susanno overpowers double rinnegan madara's susanno and makes madara rage.

Avatar image for mygod000
#468 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

No Caption Provided

Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

No Caption Provided

Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

Madara never surpassed hagoromo, you would have to use headcanon to come to that conclusion. Unless you can show evidence that madara is above him.

Plus this wasnt even his sage mode or so6p chakra, just his kcm chakra that toneri absorbed.

Its only stated by you to be able to destroy the world with a single blow, not by kishimoto. Your word isnt fact. And the so6p making the world with it doesnt mean obito can with it, unless you're suggesting obito=hagoromo, then naruto and sasuke(pre so6p buffs) would be able to one shot hagoromo.

Momoshiki had naruto's chakra too. Plus you said toneri only absorbed some of the power which would be enought to destroy a planet by throwing the moon at it. I'd rank that feat around moon-planet level. While momoshiki casually eats god trees that can absorb chakra from the entire planet.

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

He was seeing the resemblance in kaguya and momoshiki. Which is what scared him.

Sasuke never says kaguya is above them. You're again making stuff up that isnt even on the panel you show.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

Headcanon, jigen wasnt coming for kaguya. Kaguya was making an army for the one(s) that were coming for her, and it was momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Yes?

How does madara having a ten tails put him above momoshiki?

Actually no, you've just used headcanon and changed what the manga scan says to fit your argument. In reality momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>madara. Even by feats alone momoshiki>>>>>>>>madara

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, he absorbed nine tails chakra, thats what we see coming out of naruto when toneri absorbs it too. And why would he go after sasuke? Naruto has much more chakra. And naruto still didnt use sage mode so yeah. Which is irrelevant anyways cuz we only see nine tails chakra coming out.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

NUNS4 isnt even canon lol. But since you're gonna add it to this debate ill use it too. I guess kaguya is universal since she casually destroys her dimensions that have a whole universe in it. This is with rabbit form alone too and kakashi beat it. Universal DMS kakashi confirmed. Oh and naruto and current sasuke is above him. Plus madara was getting rekt by naruto and sasuke and was badly beaten in the game while naruto and sasuke had no scratches on them. Universal naruto and sasuke confirmed lol. While madara with wank is planet level lol. Itachi has a perfect susanno too. Plus pre god tree madara was getting close to hagoromo, which means he wasnt even close just getting there. Plus he was referring to madara trying to get power near kaguya. Sasuke even says this was the one the so6p was talking about, implying post god tree is still getting close to hagoromo and isnt even close. Lol. Like i said, you would have to use insane headcanon to suggest madara is on hagoromo's level, let alone above it.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Yet you think naruto isnt planet level yet apparently juubito is. Sigh.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Screaming and getting scratches on your body and getting bloodied is tanking an attack with barely any damage? And since you wanna use the games madara gets obliterated by the attack his body is covered in scratches by it.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

Jigen might be above kaguya, but facts suggest momoshiki is too. Its stated kaguya was afraid of who the otsutsuki was gonna send for her, and that person was momoshiki. Plus jigen cant even take out a holding back base naruto with a surprise attack. Also idk why you mentioned momoshiki wanted a ten tails.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

Rankings dont really show who is stronger. Thats like saying EOS naruto and current sasuke are fodder because they are still genin.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Momoshiki WAS searching those 1000 years, and finally found her in boruto. Kinshiki also informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world(planet) implying they were looking for it. Momoshiki even asks sasuke for information on kaguya.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The 10 tails doesnt have planet level power, nothing suggests it, and you failed to prove it. The I.T comes from the rinne sharingan, which you need the 10 tails+god tree to do. Plus momoshiki created his own dimensions. Also making a dimension doesnt mean you're planet level, thats like saying zetsu obito is planet level since he had the kamui dimension.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Momoshiki also ate god trees, and even recreates them in his dimensions.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Fixed.

Edit: And since you wanna go with the games, sasuke's susanno overpowers double rinnegan madara's susanno and makes madara rage.

Yes, he absorbed nine tails chakra, thats what we see coming out of naruto when toneri absorbs it too. And why would he go after sasuke? Naruto has much more chakra. And naruto still didnt use sage mode so yeah. Which is irrelevant anyways cuz we only see nine tails chakra coming out.

That is irrelevant Because Naruto stated Toneri took all of his Chakra. as far as I am concerned, Momoshiki only took 9 tails Chakra. No, If Naruto had more Chakra then they wouldn't be equals. As I said Naruto=Sasuke now in Boruto. Naruto just has the Luxury of The 9 tails gathering chakra from him when he is low on chakra. so he is constantly getting his power replenished during combat. this is a fact, since Sasuke stated Naruto was low on chakra then the 9 tails has a chat with Naruto and tells him that he has been gathering chakra for him during the whole fight.

NUNS4 isnt even canon lol. But since you're gonna add it to this debate ill use it too. I guess kaguya is universal since she casually destroys her dimensions that have a whole universe in it. This is with rabbit form alone too and kakashi beat it. Universal DMS kakashi confirmed. Oh and naruto and current sasuke is above him. Plus madara was getting rekt by naruto and sasuke and was badly beaten in the game while naruto and sasuke had no scratches on them. Universal naruto and sasuke confirmed lol. While madara with wank is planet level lol. Itachi has a perfect susanno too. Plus pre god tree madara was getting close to hagoromo, which means he wasnt even close just getting there. Plus he was referring to madara trying to get power near kaguya. Sasuke even says this was the one the so6p was talking about, implying post god tree is still getting close to hagoromo and isnt even close. Lol. Like i said, you would have to use insane headcanon to suggest madara is on hagoromo's level, let alone above it.

Kishimoto approved the Dialogue. yes, Madara is above Hagoromo, in the games, and in the manga. When Madara is getting power Naruto goes back to what Hagoromo stated that Madara was close to his power. Madara is closer to Kaguya's power than he is to Hagoromo power.

Madara power was used to needed to bring Kaguya back.

LMFAO... you clearly didn't play the game then, because Madara was massively above Naruto and Sasuke in-game as well.

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stated to have surpassed him.

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Now, look what Naruto and Sasuke needed to do to just stop one of Madara's attacks.

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they needed to fuse their chakra together.

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This is Six paths Naruto and Sasuke using everything they had and more to fight Madara.

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Sasuke inferno Control combined with Naruto's TBB.

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Naruto using 9 clones which Nearly took out a weakened Kaguya in the manga.

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Fused all their power with Naruto's and Sasuke's.

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He then Tanks the combined fused attacks of All of Naruto&Sasuke+ 9 of Naruto's shadow clones powers ...and was laughing about it.

So yes, Madara>>>>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

look at the near end of that battle Madara tanks their attacks then laughs about it and still says he can beat them.

GG. Since we know Kakashi is above Hagoromo, we know Kakashi is leagues weaker because he is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

Yet you think naruto isnt planet level yet apparently juubito is. Sigh.

Juubiobito stated this. I'm just repeating what he said if you don't like it take it up with Kishimoto.

Screaming and getting scratches on your body and getting bloodied is tanking an attack with barely any damage? And since you wanna use the games madara gets obliterated by the attack his body is covered in scratches by it.

He wasn't screaming, and how does he getting scratched Negate the fact he survived the attack with nothing more than scratch? Like said Madara scale to Kaguya. Hagoromo doesn't.

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Kaguya>>>>JJHagoromo.

while Madara scales to her since she wasn't that much more powerful than Madara.

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Hagoromo Says he use using the Ten-Tails powers and is getting close to him.

Later Says that Madara got close to Hagoromo's power with just the Juubi's Powers. then Madara went on to absorb the God tree got a massive boost.

It's Stated twice but worded Differently that he got Close to Hagoromo with just the Juubi alone. Then Madara went on to absorb the God Tree+ Double Rinnegan which both gives a massive power.

Then Gained Rinnegan which boosted his power 4x stronger. then Awakened Rinne Sharingan which is the strongest eyes in the series so far since it can create Dimensions which Madara did on screen.

So yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo after he gained 3 power-ups, and stated that he was then trying to get close to his Mothers power who is above Hagoromo.

GG.

Jigen might be above kaguya, but facts suggest momoshiki is too. Its stated kaguya was afraid of who the otsutsuki was gonna send for her, and that person was momoshiki. Plus jigen cant even take out a holding back base naruto with a surprise attack. Also idk why you mentioned momoshiki wanted a ten tails.

Nope, Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya. Jigen is. there is no might to it. Base Jigen is stated to be above Naruto, By Kawaki who saw Naruto's SPSM form in action, and said that He might be more powerful than base Jigen. Momoshiki got smacked around by half powered Naruto who was out of shape and killed by Base Naruto.

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Jigen true form has 8 tomes on it while Kaguya only has 6 tomes.

Momoshiki has none he is weaker than her by a shit ton. the placings on the tablet Symbolize Superiority and important. Kinishiki was placed Below Momoshiki because he is weaker than him, while Kaguya is above Momoshiki since Sasuke was sweating when he saw her but didn't give a care in the world about Momoshiki.

Momoshiki WAS searching those 1000 years, and finally found her in boruto. Kinshiki also informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world(planet) implying they were looking for it. Momoshiki even asks sasuke for information on kaguya.

Nope, Momoshiki was never searching for Kaguya, he doesn't even mention Kaguya in the manga, all he cared about was getting a God Tree and getting a Juubi of his own which Kaguya has.

Since they are the same Race we know that Juubi Boost your power by massive amounts which can't be denied since Hagoromo stated the Ten tails power alone is powerful enough to boost someone close to his power. So If Kaguya before the Juubi Power was on Momoshiki level, then Kaguya, after she absorbs the Juubi, is beyond Momoshiki by a shit ton. Not only that but also I.T power up so they aren't anyway Momoshiki is on Kaguya level. He isn't even planet level he feats goes against it.

The 10 tails doesnt have planet level power, nothing suggests it, and you failed to prove it. The I.T comes from the rinne sharingan, which you need the 10 tails+god tree to do. Plus momoshiki created his own dimensions. Also making a dimension doesnt mean you're planet level, thats like saying zetsu obito is planet level since he had the kamui dimension.

Yes, it does, Since the Ten tails alone is enough to boost people on HAgoromo's level who was able to create a moon on his death bed. says it Planet level buddy, that is beyond Momoshiki he hasn't made a Dimension that we've seen. for all, we know the dimension we see is something he just found and then claimed as his. no proof that he created it. while We have proof that Madara created one since I.T does that.

Obito isn't planet Level LMFAO. he got wrecked by Minato who isn't planet level. his eyes just use a Space-time Jutsu that teleports him to a Dimension nothing states the dimension is actually his. if that the Case then Madara has Two Dimension the I.T Empty Dimension, and the Limbo Dimension.

Momoshiki also ate god trees, and even recreates them in his dimensions.

He created that God tree using the 8 tails From Killer bee. LMFAO, he didn't eat the God Tree as it was still there and it was dead. you need to learn what Absorbing is, If Momoshiki Absorbed the Tree it wouldn't even be their anymore it would be inside Momoshiki. Secondly, you don't have proof that he ate that Fruit since it stated that the planet is a dead planet with barely any chakra. God tree needs a planet with life on it in order to actually live otherwise, it will die.

no proof that he actually created that dimension he could have easily just found it and claimed it as his own. Like I said earlier if Momoshiki can just Create the power needed to create a Dimension he would have killed Naruto and Sasuke instantly and casually. Naruto doesn't have the durability to survive someone who can create and destroy Dimensions. neither does Sasuke when his Susanoo got destroyed by just a random fire attack from Momoshiki. if a Random fire attack can do that too Sasuke Susanoo. then a Dimension destroys attack would easily kill them. Momoshiki never displayed this level of power because he was never at this level.

Fixed that last Thing for you.

Sasuke wasn't above Madara lol he needed to fuse with Naruto and 9 of Naruto's Shadow clones to overpower one of Madara's Attacks. Madara tanked their attack and laughed at them and still said he could beat them.

If we are going by games which Kishimoto approved, Madara in the manga didn't even use Susanno against Naruto and Sasuke in their power with him.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#469 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

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Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

the top middle panels depict the main family. While the bottom panels depict the branch family.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

As you can see Kaguya's Panel is above Momoshiki.

Like I said Kaguya>>>>>>>>>>momoshiki.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

When you address that post, Make sure you acknowledge that Toneri At the end of that battle Absorbed NAruto Chakra.

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Toneri than Absorbed The 1000s Byakugan+a Star after Absorbing Naruto's powers.

he was going to use that power to One-shot the planet.

not only that Toneri was Weaker than Hamura who is weaker than Hagoromo.

Madara surpassed Hagoromo. So by default Madara was more powerful than Toneri just because he was stronger than Hagoromo.

Like I said ESTB=Star Level. You admitted Kaguya used I.T to use ESTB which proves that she isn't that much powerful than Madara because she needed chakra from I.T to do her most powerful attack.

Obito's Attack Nunoboko is stated to be able to destroy the world since the Sage six paths used it to create the world.

Madara>>>>>>>>>that Sword.

Toneri absorbing a Star+Naruto's powers>>>>>>>Momoshiki absorbing a planet chakra.

If Momoshiki could generate the chakra needed to create a Dimension then he would have destroyed Naruto and Sasuke in their last back which disproves your logic.

Also, like I said the manga proves that Kaguya is above Momoshiki.

Madara never surpassed hagoromo, you would have to use headcanon to come to that conclusion. Unless you can show evidence that madara is above him.

Plus this wasnt even his sage mode or so6p chakra, just his kcm chakra that toneri absorbed.

Its only stated by you to be able to destroy the world with a single blow, not by kishimoto. Your word isnt fact. And the so6p making the world with it doesnt mean obito can with it, unless you're suggesting obito=hagoromo, then naruto and sasuke(pre so6p buffs) would be able to one shot hagoromo.

Momoshiki had naruto's chakra too. Plus you said toneri only absorbed some of the power which would be enought to destroy a planet by throwing the moon at it. I'd rank that feat around moon-planet level. While momoshiki casually eats god trees that can absorb chakra from the entire planet.

Just by seeing Kaguya Sasuke was sweating and scared. Not only that he ran from fighting this a Guy who he fears is above Kaguya.

Not only that, When Sasuke is thinking about them Kaguya is above Momoshiki and Kinishiki.

He was seeing the resemblance in kaguya and momoshiki. Which is what scared him.

Sasuke never says kaguya is above them. You're again making stuff up that isnt even on the panel you show.

Kaguya and Jigens panels are the middle two elevated higher than the rest symbolizing their superiority and importance.

The person above Kaguya is Jigens or Kaguya's pair. since it was stated the one on top is the Superior of the bottom one in the last Manga chapter that was proven because Kinishiki was at the bottom and Momoshiki was above him.

I can Say Kaguya was making the Zetsu Army for Jigens, Momoshiki is just fodder that wanted to get a God Tree and Absorb its power which when he got them the God tree was gone.

Headcanon, jigen wasnt coming for kaguya. Kaguya was making an army for the one(s) that were coming for her, and it was momoshiki.

Momoshiki didn’t have a Ten-Tails. He was attempting to collect all the tailed beasts so that he could acquire one of his own.

Madara had Ten tails>>>>Momoshiki.

GG you lost the debate the last chapter points to Kaguya being way more powerful than Momoshiki.

Yes?

How does madara having a ten tails put him above momoshiki?

Actually no, you've just used headcanon and changed what the manga scan says to fit your argument. In reality momoshiki>kaguya>>>>>madara. Even by feats alone momoshiki>>>>>>>>madara

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Momoshiki had half of the 9 tails Chakra, he never absorbed Naruto's Chakra. If he wanted Naruto's chakra then he could have easily just gone after Sasuke who has Equal powers with Naruto. He wanted the Tailed best in Naruto Not naruto's power. That's Irrelevant Because Naruto said All of his chakras was being drained out of him by Toneri not Just his KCM Chakra but all of his chakra.

Yes, he absorbed nine tails chakra, thats what we see coming out of naruto when toneri absorbs it too. And why would he go after sasuke? Naruto has much more chakra. And naruto still didnt use sage mode so yeah. Which is irrelevant anyways cuz we only see nine tails chakra coming out.

Yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo. even in the Game, NUNS4 Madara stated he surpassed The Sage of Six paths. Regardless of what you think of the game, it stated and Kishimoto approved the dialogue in there. 1 eyed Madara Pre-God Tree was already Nearly as powerful as Hagoromo was, You are implying He never surpassed him even those he went through 3 massive power up? LMFAO.

NUNS4 isnt even canon lol. But since you're gonna add it to this debate ill use it too. I guess kaguya is universal since she casually destroys her dimensions that have a whole universe in it. This is with rabbit form alone too and kakashi beat it. Universal DMS kakashi confirmed. Oh and naruto and current sasuke is above him. Plus madara was getting rekt by naruto and sasuke and was badly beaten in the game while naruto and sasuke had no scratches on them. Universal naruto and sasuke confirmed lol. While madara with wank is planet level lol. Itachi has a perfect susanno too. Plus pre god tree madara was getting close to hagoromo, which means he wasnt even close just getting there. Plus he was referring to madara trying to get power near kaguya. Sasuke even says this was the one the so6p was talking about, implying post god tree is still getting close to hagoromo and isnt even close. Lol. Like i said, you would have to use insane headcanon to suggest madara is on hagoromo's level, let alone above it.

Stop it...that like saying Naruto didn't surpass Obito Juubi even those he has feats that prove that he did.

Yet you think naruto isnt planet level yet apparently juubito is. Sigh.

Madara tanked Naruto and Sasuke's Combined attack regardless of what you think the fact of the matter is Madara tanked it with barely any Damage.

Screaming and getting scratches on your body and getting bloodied is tanking an attack with barely any damage? And since you wanna use the games madara gets obliterated by the attack his body is covered in scratches by it.

Nope, He hadn't figured that out yet until later than he started sweating more than Kaguya might have a partner. the fact is Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya Jigen is. Momoshiki wanted a 10 tails Juubi of his own which is why he was looking for the Tailed Beast and gathering them.

Jigen might be above kaguya, but facts suggest momoshiki is too. Its stated kaguya was afraid of who the otsutsuki was gonna send for her, and that person was momoshiki. Plus jigen cant even take out a holding back base naruto with a surprise attack. Also idk why you mentioned momoshiki wanted a ten tails.

as I said only Jigen is Above Kaguya since He is higher up on the Tablet than she is while Momoshiki isn't. Not only that, Kaguya had a full 10 tails while Momoshiki didn't.

Rankings dont really show who is stronger. Thats like saying EOS naruto and current sasuke are fodder because they are still genin.

How do you know he wasn't coming for her? She did Go out and had kids by a human native of the planet. By the look of it Momoshiki didn't come out looking for Kaguya back then since 1000s of years went by and Momoshiki didn't go searching at all until we got in Boruto.

Momoshiki WAS searching those 1000 years, and finally found her in boruto. Kinshiki also informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world(planet) implying they were looking for it. Momoshiki even asks sasuke for information on kaguya.

Because the 10 tails at full power have planet level power, and gains you overpower abilities. Like I.T which instantly give you the power to create Dimensions which is something, Momoshiki didn't do.

The 10 tails doesnt have planet level power, nothing suggests it, and you failed to prove it. The I.T comes from the rinne sharingan, which you need the 10 tails+god tree to do. Plus momoshiki created his own dimensions. Also making a dimension doesnt mean you're planet level, thats like saying zetsu obito is planet level since he had the kamui dimension.

The question is why was Momoshiki desperately looking for God Trees? the point is it gives a massive boost and is stated to be the source of Kaguya's power which is why Momoshiki wanted it. Madara gained it.

Momoshiki also ate god trees, and even recreates them in his dimensions.

Again, Madara>>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Fixed.

Edit: And since you wanna go with the games, sasuke's susanno overpowers double rinnegan madara's susanno and makes madara rage.

Yes, he absorbed nine tails chakra, thats what we see coming out of naruto when toneri absorbs it too. And why would he go after sasuke? Naruto has much more chakra. And naruto still didnt use sage mode so yeah. Which is irrelevant anyways cuz we only see nine tails chakra coming out.

That is irrelevant Because Naruto stated Toneri took all of his Chakra. as far as I am concerned, Momoshiki only took 9 tails Chakra. No, If Naruto had more Chakra then they wouldn't be equals. As I said Naruto=Sasuke now in Boruto. Naruto just has the Luxury of The 9 tails gathering chakra from him when he is low on chakra. so he is constantly getting his power replenished during combat. this is a fact, since Sasuke stated Naruto was low on chakra then the 9 tails has a chat with Naruto and tells him that he has been gathering chakra for him during the whole fight.

NUNS4 isnt even canon lol. But since you're gonna add it to this debate ill use it too. I guess kaguya is universal since she casually destroys her dimensions that have a whole universe in it. This is with rabbit form alone too and kakashi beat it. Universal DMS kakashi confirmed. Oh and naruto and current sasuke is above him. Plus madara was getting rekt by naruto and sasuke and was badly beaten in the game while naruto and sasuke had no scratches on them. Universal naruto and sasuke confirmed lol. While madara with wank is planet level lol. Itachi has a perfect susanno too. Plus pre god tree madara was getting close to hagoromo, which means he wasnt even close just getting there. Plus he was referring to madara trying to get power near kaguya. Sasuke even says this was the one the so6p was talking about, implying post god tree is still getting close to hagoromo and isnt even close. Lol. Like i said, you would have to use insane headcanon to suggest madara is on hagoromo's level, let alone above it.

Kishimoto approved the Dialogue. yes, Madara is above Hagoromo, in the games, and in the manga. When Madara is getting power Naruto goes back to what Hagoromo stated that Madara was close to his power. Madara is closer to Kaguya's power than he is to Hagoromo power.

Madara power was used to needed to bring Kaguya back.

LMFAO... you clearly didn't play the game then, because Madara was massively above Naruto and Sasuke in-game as well.

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stated to have surpassed him.

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Now, look what Naruto and Sasuke needed to do to just stop one of Madara's attacks.

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they needed to fuse their chakra together.

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This is Six paths Naruto and Sasuke using everything they had and more to fight Madara.

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Sasuke inferno Control combined with Naruto's TBB.

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Naruto using 9 clones which Nearly took out a weakened Kaguya in the manga.

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Fused all their power with Naruto's and Sasuke's.

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He then Tanks the combined fused attacks of All of Naruto&Sasuke+ 9 of Naruto's shadow clones powers ...and was laughing about it.

So yes, Madara>>>>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

look at the near end of that battle Madara tanks their attacks then laughs about it and still says he can beat them.

GG. Since we know Kakashi is above Hagoromo, we know Kakashi is leagues weaker because he is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

Yet you think naruto isnt planet level yet apparently juubito is. Sigh.

Juubiobito stated this. I'm just repeating what he said if you don't like it take it up with Kishimoto.

Screaming and getting scratches on your body and getting bloodied is tanking an attack with barely any damage? And since you wanna use the games madara gets obliterated by the attack his body is covered in scratches by it.

He wasn't screaming, and how does he getting scratched Negate the fact he survived the attack with nothing more than scratch? Like said Madara scale to Kaguya. Hagoromo doesn't.

No Caption Provided

Kaguya>>>>JJHagoromo.

while Madara scales to her since she wasn't that much more powerful than Madara.

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Hagoromo Says he use using the Ten-Tails powers and is getting close to him.

Later Says that Madara got close to Hagoromo's power with just the Juubi's Powers. then Madara went on to absorb the God tree got a massive boost.

It's Stated twice but worded Differently that he got Close to Hagoromo with just the Juubi alone. Then Madara went on to absorb the God Tree+ Double Rinnegan which both gives a massive power.

Then Gained Rinnegan which boosted his power 4x stronger. then Awakened Rinne Sharingan which is the strongest eyes in the series so far since it can create Dimensions which Madara did on screen.

So yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo after he gained 3 power-ups, and stated that he was then trying to get close to his Mothers power who is above Hagoromo.

GG.

Jigen might be above kaguya, but facts suggest momoshiki is too. Its stated kaguya was afraid of who the otsutsuki was gonna send for her, and that person was momoshiki. Plus jigen cant even take out a holding back base naruto with a surprise attack. Also idk why you mentioned momoshiki wanted a ten tails.

Nope, Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya. Jigen is. there is no might to it. Base Jigen is stated to be above Naruto, By Kawaki who saw Naruto's SPSM form in action, and said that He might be more powerful than base Jigen. Momoshiki got smacked around by half powered Naruto who was out of shape and killed by Base Naruto.

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Jigen true form has 8 tomes on it while Kaguya only has 6 tomes.

Momoshiki has none he is weaker than her by a shit ton. the placings on the tablet Symbolize Superiority and important. Kinishiki was placed Below Momoshiki because he is weaker than him, while Kaguya is above Momoshiki since Sasuke was sweating when he saw her but didn't give a care in the world about Momoshiki.

Momoshiki WAS searching those 1000 years, and finally found her in boruto. Kinshiki also informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world(planet) implying they were looking for it. Momoshiki even asks sasuke for information on kaguya.

Nope, Momoshiki was never searching for Kaguya, he doesn't even mention Kaguya in the manga, all he cared about was getting a God Tree and getting a Juubi of his own which Kaguya has.

Since they are the same Race we know that Juubi Boost your power by massive amounts which can't be denied since Hagoromo stated the Ten tails power alone is powerful enough to boost someone close to his power. So If Kaguya before the Juubi Power was on Momoshiki level, then Kaguya, after she absorbs the Juubi, is beyond Momoshiki by a shit ton. Not only that but also I.T power up so they aren't anyway Momoshiki is on Kaguya level. He isn't even planet level he feats goes against it.

The 10 tails doesnt have planet level power, nothing suggests it, and you failed to prove it. The I.T comes from the rinne sharingan, which you need the 10 tails+god tree to do. Plus momoshiki created his own dimensions. Also making a dimension doesnt mean you're planet level, thats like saying zetsu obito is planet level since he had the kamui dimension.

Yes, it does, Since the Ten tails alone is enough to boost people on HAgoromo's level who was able to create a moon on his death bed. says it Planet level buddy, that is beyond Momoshiki he hasn't made a Dimension that we've seen. for all, we know the dimension we see is something he just found and then claimed as his. no proof that he created it. while We have proof that Madara created one since I.T does that.

Obito isn't planet Level LMFAO. he got wrecked by Minato who isn't planet level. his eyes just use a Space-time Jutsu that teleports him to a Dimension nothing states the dimension is actually his. if that the Case then Madara has Two Dimension the I.T Empty Dimension, and the Limbo Dimension.

Momoshiki also ate god trees, and even recreates them in his dimensions.

He created that God tree using the 8 tails From Killer bee. LMFAO, he didn't eat the God Tree as it was still there and it was dead. you need to learn what Absorbing is, If Momoshiki Absorbed the Tree it wouldn't even be their anymore it would be inside Momoshiki. Secondly, you don't have proof that he ate that Fruit since it stated that the planet is a dead planet with barely any chakra. God tree needs a planet with life on it in order to actually live otherwise, it will die.

no proof that he actually created that dimension he could have easily just found it and claimed it as his own. Like I said earlier if Momoshiki can just Create the power needed to create a Dimension he would have killed Naruto and Sasuke instantly and casually. Naruto doesn't have the durability to survive someone who can create and destroy Dimensions. neither does Sasuke when his Susanoo got destroyed by just a random fire attack from Momoshiki. if a Random fire attack can do that too Sasuke Susanoo. then a Dimension destroys attack would easily kill them. Momoshiki never displayed this level of power because he was never at this level.

Fixed that last Thing for you.

Sasuke wasn't above Madara lol he needed to fuse with Naruto and 9 of Naruto's Shadow clones to overpower one of Madara's Attacks. Madara tanked their attack and laughed at them and still said he could beat them.

If we are going by games which Kishimoto approved, Madara in the manga didn't even use Susanno against Naruto and Sasuke in their power with him.

That is irrelevant Because Naruto stated Toneri took all of his Chakra. as far as I am concerned, Momoshiki only took 9 tails Chakra. No, If Naruto had more Chakra then they wouldn't be equals. As I said Naruto=Sasuke now in Boruto. Naruto just has the Luxury of The 9 tails gathering chakra from him when he is low on chakra. so he is constantly getting his power replenished during combat. this is a fact, since Sasuke stated Naruto was low on chakra then the 9 tails has a chat with Naruto and tells him that he has been gathering chakra for him during the whole fight.

We see only nine tails chakra coming out of naruto. And the amount of chakra you have doesnt give you a strength advantage. Naruto has better chakra reserves/more chakra. Thats how it's always been, this is mostly due to uzumaki chakra reserves and the nine tails.

Kishimoto approved the Dialogue. yes, Madara is above Hagoromo, in the games, and in the manga. When Madara is getting power Naruto goes back to what Hagoromo stated that Madara was close to his power. Madara is closer to Kaguya's power than he is to Hagoromo power.

Madara power was used to needed to bring Kaguya back.

LMFAO... you clearly didn't play the game then, because Madara was massively above Naruto and Sasuke in-game as well.

Ok, so sasuke>madara since he overpowered him.

Yes?

How? Madara gets wrecked by naruto and sasuke the whole time. He even gets overpowered by sasuke alone, and i did play the game, and beat it.

He then Tanks the combined fused attacks of All of Naruto&Sasuke+ 9 of Naruto's shadow clones powers ...and was laughing about it.

So yes, Madara>>>>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

look at the near end of that battle Madara tanks their attacks then laughs about it and still says he can beat them.

GG. Since we know Kakashi is above Hagoromo, we know Kakashi is leagues weaker because he is weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara got wrecked by the attacks, even on the pics you showed me. And he can barely stand and is limping after it. He even needs black zetsu's help to stop naruto.

How? Madara got overpowered by sasuke alone. And gets wrecked the whole fight. Getting wrecked by one attack doesnt prove anything.

Naruto states hes gonna beat madara too so meh..

GG about what? NUNS4 Kakashi is universal since he beat rabbit form kaguya that destroys her universe sized dimensions in the game. Why did you even bring in NUNS4? It's not even canon...

Juubiobito stated this. I'm just repeating what he said if you don't like it take it up with Kishimoto.

Im aware, just confused with your logic. You say naruto isnt planet level but juubito is, then you say juubito is weaker than naruto...

He wasn't screaming, and how does he getting scratched Negate the fact he survived the attack with nothing more than scratch? Like said Madara scale to Kaguya. Hagoromo doesn't.

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Kaguya>>>>JJHagoromo.

while Madara scales to her since she wasn't that much more powerful than Madara.

No Caption Provided

Hagoromo Says he use using the Ten-Tails powers and is getting close to him.

Later Says that Madara got close to Hagoromo's power with just the Juubi's Powers. then Madara went on to absorb the God tree got a massive boost.

It's Stated twice but worded Differently that he got Close to Hagoromo with just the Juubi alone. Then Madara went on to absorb the God Tree+ Double Rinnegan which both gives a massive power.

Then Gained Rinnegan which boosted his power 4x stronger. then Awakened Rinne Sharingan which is the strongest eyes in the series so far since it can create Dimensions which Madara did on screen.

So yes, Madara surpassed Hagoromo after he gained 3 power-ups, and stated that he was then trying to get close to his Mothers power who is above Hagoromo.

GG.

He was screaming in the manga and NUNS4, he is then shown beat up by the attack.

And madara cant scale to kaguya at all, he just cant. Kaguya is WAY above him.

Yes, getting close to him.

Then after absorbing the god tree sasuke says this is the man hagoromo was talking about, which means post god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to hagoromo.

The rinne-sharingan came from the god tree, and madara never made dimensions.

Yes, he was TRYING to get close to her.

GG.

Nope, Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya. Jigen is. there is no might to it. Base Jigen is stated to be above Naruto, By Kawaki who saw Naruto's SPSM form in action, and said that He might be more powerful than base Jigen. Momoshiki got smacked around by half powered Naruto who was out of shape and killed by Base Naruto.

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Jigen true form has 8 tomes on it while Kaguya only has 6 tomes.

Momoshiki has none he is weaker than her by a shit ton. the placings on the tablet Symbolize Superiority and important. Kinishiki was placed Below Momoshiki because he is weaker than him, while Kaguya is above Momoshiki since Sasuke was sweating when he saw her but didn't give a care in the world about Momoshiki.

Huh? Kashin Kojin states a holding back KCM naruto isnt on jigen's level, they never saw RBSM naruto in action.

What does tomoes have to do with anything?

The tablets show otsutsuki rankings, not power. Sasuke was sweating when he saw kaguya's resemblance in momoshiki, so technically he was sweating about momoshiki lol.

Nope, Momoshiki was never searching for Kaguya, he doesn't even mention Kaguya in the manga, all he cared about was getting a God Tree and getting a Juubi of his own which Kaguya has.

Since they are the same Race we know that Juubi Boost your power by massive amounts which can't be denied since Hagoromo stated the Ten tails power alone is powerful enough to boost someone close to his power. So If Kaguya before the Juubi Power was on Momoshiki level, then Kaguya, after she absorbs the Juubi, is beyond Momoshiki by a shit ton. Not only that but also I.T power up so they aren't anyway Momoshiki is on Kaguya level. He isn't even planet level he feats goes against it.

Momoshiki asks sasuke for info on kaguya. Kinshiki states they found kaguya's world, they were searching for her.

Actually the otsutsuki clan was keeping tabs on earth's chakra levels, and they saw kaguya's power, yet kaguya still felt she needed to make an army for momoshiki and momoshiki was still confident in beating kaguya. Plus no feats suggest hes not planet level, infact he has feats to say he is planet level.

Yes, it does, Since the Ten tails alone is enough to boost people on HAgoromo's level who was able to create a moon on his death bed. says it Planet level buddy, that is beyond Momoshiki he hasn't made a Dimension that we've seen. for all, we know the dimension we see is something he just found and then claimed as his. no proof that he created it. while We have proof that Madara created one since I.T does that.

Obito isn't planet Level LMFAO. he got wrecked by Minato who isn't planet level. his eyes just use a Space-time Jutsu that teleports him to a Dimension nothing states the dimension is actually his. if that the Case then Madara has Two Dimension the I.T Empty Dimension, and the Limbo Dimension.

No ten tails JJ(besides kaguya and jigen) is on hagoromo's level. And making a moon has nothing to do with planet level. Plus we saw momoshiki's dimension since it's where he took naruto, and in momoshiki's dimensions we see stars and god tree.

It actually is his. The I.T dimension isnt a dimension, unless you're trying to say every genjutsu is creating a dimension. the limbo isnt his dimension either he just sends projections of himself there.

He created that God tree using the 8 tails From Killer bee. LMFAO, he didn't eat the God Tree as it was still there and it was dead. you need to learn what Absorbing is, If Momoshiki Absorbed the Tree it wouldn't even be their anymore it would be inside Momoshiki. Secondly, you don't have proof that he ate that Fruit since it stated that the planet is a dead planet with barely any chakra. God tree needs a planet with life on it in order to actually live otherwise, it will die.

no proof that he actually created that dimension he could have easily just found it and claimed it as his own. Like I said earlier if Momoshiki can just Create the power needed to create a Dimension he would have killed Naruto and Sasuke instantly and casually. Naruto doesn't have the durability to survive someone who can create and destroy Dimensions. neither does Sasuke when his Susanoo got destroyed by just a random fire attack from Momoshiki. if a Random fire attack can do that too Sasuke Susanoo. then a Dimension destroys attack would easily kill them. Momoshiki never displayed this level of power because he was never at this level.

Fixed that last Thing for you.

Sasuke wasn't above Madara lol he needed to fuse with Naruto and 9 of Naruto's Shadow clones to overpower one of Madara's Attacks. Madara tanked their attack and laughed at them and still said he could beat them.

If we are going by games which Kishimoto approved, Madara in the manga didn't even use Susanno against Naruto and Sasuke in their power with him.

Yep. He did, infact he devoured it to the point it was a stump. And the god tree he ate had actually absorbed all the chakra out from the planet, which the planet was "dead"

Lol what? It wasnt kaguya's dimensions, it was momoshiki's, you would need proof to say momoshiki is lying when he considers it his. Naruto can tank attacks from kaguya, who creates and destroys her dimensions, sasuke can too. And momoshiki destroying his susanno with a lava jutsu is a feat for momoshiki, plus it was just the ribcage. Momoshiki is on that level.

Madara didnt tank it, he was limping and could barely stand after it. Plus that isnt even canon

The games were never actually canon, as they contradict the manga and have alot of stuff that never happened.

And i like how you resort to the non canon games to try to prove your point as you know the manga contradicts and never shows what you're saying and supports my point. Like i said if we consider the games DMS kakashi who is much weaker than naruto and sasuke would be universal since he beat rabbit form kaguya who casually destroys her universe sized dimensions. While madara isnt even planet level.

Avatar image for mygod000
#470 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

He was screaming in the manga and NUNS4, he is then shown beat up by the attack.

And madara cant scale to kaguya at all, he just cant. Kaguya is WAY above him.

Yes, getting close to him.

Then after absorbing the god tree sasuke says this is the man hagoromo was talking about, which means post god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to hagoromo.

The rinne-sharingan came from the god tree, and madara never made dimensions.

Yes, he was TRYING to get close to her.

GG.

There was no panel of him screaming in the manga. why are you making things up? If he was scream there would be an actual comment about it like when Zetsu stabs him and he screams from all that chakra being shoved in him. He didn't scream from any of Naruto and Sasuke's attack.

Shown Beaten Up=/= actually beaten.

He does Scale to her Since she needed him to revive, what don't you understand about that?

He was close to his powers while using the Juubi. He surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and 4 x stronger from getting his other Rinnegan.

He did, The I.T States that you create a Dimension when you cast it. I said Limbo Dimension is Madara since his shadows Exist from there since you tried to say Obito Dimension was his because that where his eyes take him.

No Caption Provided

Stop ignoring facts of Jutsu. It states it right there that he creates an Empty Dimension under their Control.

No Caption Provided

Hagoromo>1 eye Madara Juubi pre-God Tree.

No Caption Provided

When Naruto Thinks About to Hagoromo words.

Hagoromo stated Madara got close to him using the Juubi's Powers.

Rinne sharingan +2 Rinnegan juubi Madara>>God Tree Absorbed 1 Eyed Juubi Madara=Hagoromo.

He surpassed Him. So, stop ignoring facts. only the Pre- God Tree absorb Madara was below Hagoromo, Post God tree Madara is above Him and is around Kaguya level because of these statements.

No Caption Provided

Stated that Zetsu was using I.T power for Kaguya the Whole-time.

I.T=51-52% of Kaguya's Power

3 eyed Madara=48-49% of Kaguya's power.

Together they create Kaguya. that was the point of the story was that Madara was no longer being Indra he started getting power-hungry and then he became Kaguya.

It's doesn't matter what you don't believe, I've given you facts to back up the truth and right now you are willed ignorance fallacy.

^ the fact back up that he is at least 48% of Kaguya, at bare minimum...and the fact that he surpassed Hagoromo who stated that Madara got to his level using the Juubi, that the fact that only using the Juubi got him on Hagoromo's level Madara getting the God tree, and Getting his eyes back puts him above Hagoromo.

Like I said Madara didn't even use His Susanoo against Sasuke and Naruto, and His limbo clones didn't even use Jutsu against them even those they have the same abilities as Madara.

which is why Madara is light years above Naruto and Sasuke.

Huh? Kashin Kojin states a holding back KCM naruto isnt on jigen's level, they never saw RBSM naruto in action.

What does tomoes have to do with anything?

The tablets show otsutsuki rankings, not power. Sasuke was sweating when he saw kaguya's resemblance in momoshiki, so technically he was sweating about momoshiki lol.

that doesn't even make sense and is a Questionable Cause Fallacy.

Sasuke didn't care about Momoshiki, he is weak as proven he needed pills to fight. that not the sign of someone being about Another person when you constantly need to eat pills. he is weak, and Kaguya is powerful even without using I.T Chakra to create ETSB.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki, Nothing Momoshiki did put him on Kaguya or Madara's level. he got beat and killed by a Rusty weaker Naruto, not only that he was killed by Base Naruto as well. then he was running from Kages.

Yea, Jigen when in his true state is above Kaguya, Sasuke was so scared that he didn't even try to fight Him, yet he rushed into the battle with Kinishiki and Momoshiki when he first encountered them.

Pretty much proves that Sasuke See Jigen Above Kaguya and Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Don't forget that Jigen casually Smacked Naruto who Base formed Killed Momoshiki.

Momoshiki asks sasuke for info on kaguya. Kinshiki states they found kaguya's world, they were searching for her.

Actually the otsutsuki clan was keeping tabs on earth's chakra levels, and they saw kaguya's power, yet kaguya still felt she needed to make an army for momoshiki and momoshiki was still confident in beating kaguya. Plus no feats suggest hes not planet level, infact he has feats to say he is planet level.

That was in the anime, in the Manga Momoshiki never said anything about Kaguya.

Momoshiki in the Anime didn't care at all about Kaguya he only cared about chakra, Kaguya made the army for Jigen who is her partner, not Momoshiki, she only has a connection with Jigen who was above Her.

>Gets Killed by Base Naruto=Not planet level.

>Ran From Kages=Not planet level.

>Naruto isn't planet level.

I just thought of 3 right their that suggest he isn't planet level.

No ten tails JJ(besides kaguya and jigen) is on hagoromo's level. And making a moon has nothing to do with planet level. Plus we saw momoshiki's dimension since it's where he took naruto, and in momoshiki's dimensions we see stars and god tree.

It actually is his. The I.T dimension isnt a dimension, unless you're trying to say every genjutsu is creating a dimension. the limbo isnt his dimension either he just sends projections of himself there.

I already disproved this argument of yours, it already stated that using I.T creates an empty Dimension.

We are not talking about other Genjutsu, because I.T is the ultimate Genjutsu not only that it's stated to be the strongest Genjutsu in exist.

Not only that it has Planetary+ Rang since you need to first Cast your eye on the Moon, which then reflects the World. you can only do this when you have the Ten-Tails. Obito needed 15mins of Gathering Chakra from the Shinobi alliance just to cast that Jutsu, while Madara instantly cast it when he gained his other eye.

I.T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all other Genjutsu.

So it doesn't matter what you say about other Genjutsu I.T scales above it because of it the strongest of All the Genjutsu attacks.

Yep. He did, infact he devoured it to the point it was a stump. And the god tree he ate had actually absorbed all the chakra out from the planet, which the planet was "dead"

Lol what? It wasnt kaguya's dimensions, it was momoshiki's, you would need proof to say momoshiki is lying when he considers it his. Naruto can tank attacks from kaguya, who creates and destroys her dimensions, sasuke can too. And momoshiki destroying his susanno with a lava jutsu is a feat for momoshiki, plus it was just the ribcage. Momoshiki is on that level.

Madara didnt tank it, he was limping and could barely stand after it. Plus that isnt even canon

The games were never actually canon, as they contradict the manga and have alot of stuff that never happened.

And i like how you resort to the non canon games to try to prove your point as you know the manga contradicts and never shows what you're saying and supports my point. Like i said if we consider the games DMS kakashi who is much weaker than naruto and sasuke would be universal since he beat rabbit form kaguya who casually destroys her universe sized dimensions. While madara isnt even planet level.

well, too bad he didn't get a Rinne Sharingan or Juubi Chakra from it, so it is irrelevant because it was weaker then what Kaguya and Madara had by a shit ton.

I never said it was Kaguya, I said we never see Momoshiki create a Dimension, but we see Kaguya and Madara do this. She Created her Dimensions with ETSB and I.T, That is something Momoshiki doesn't have. So unless there are other ways of Creating Dimension that we don't know of yet Momoshiki hasn't met the requirements that are needed to create a Dimension.

I said Momoshiki most likely Found a Dimension and then claimed it as his, we have Confirmation that ETSB or I.T is needed to create a new dimension from Zetsu himself.

He did tank it because he didn't die from the attack and then laughed about it, not only that he still was confident in winning the fight.

I mean the Manga has a lot of stuff that didn't happen and Contradict what the Author said previously so what is your point? Madara in the Manga didn't use His Susanoo which would have wrecked Naruto and Sasuke. Madara Limbo in the Manga didn't even use their abilities which would have one-shotted Naruto yes it would have Limbo+Light Fang=Dead Naruto since he can't see it nor dodge it.

The Madara in the Manga was Nerfed because he didn't even use all of his Rinnegan abilities or Susanoo. Madara in the game wasn't so much Nerfed by was stop by plot, as We see Naruto needed to fuse with Sasuke+absorb chakra from his 9 clones just to overpower one of Madara's attack.

pretty much proves the point that he was above Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto approved of this since he was there overseen the project.

Why are you being a hypocrite? if we are being honest the Novels are None canon because they are not even written by Kishimoto. Boruto isn't even his work, it's his ideas but He doesn't write them. NUNS4 was approved by Kishimoto, who okay the dialogue. At this point, it doesn't matter what you think because you are borderline doing the same thing then complaining about it when you can't debunk something. Not only that I've seen you use the anime to debate Boruto when you told me the anime is non-canon because you couldn't debunk what I said about the events.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Momoshiki wasn't searching for Kaguya they knew exactly where she was at because they have their own Territory that looks after. when they came to the Chunin Exam They never once asked about Kaguya. in the Anime Momoshiki arc, Momoshiki wasn't looking for Kaguya only when Kinishiki came back and told him about the Tears in Kaguya's Territory and that Earth had a massive amount of chakra more than any planet they been on did they go searching for Kaguya.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>Hagoromo>>>>Momoshiki.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#471 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

@mattyboi:

He was screaming in the manga and NUNS4, he is then shown beat up by the attack.

And madara cant scale to kaguya at all, he just cant. Kaguya is WAY above him.

Yes, getting close to him.

Then after absorbing the god tree sasuke says this is the man hagoromo was talking about, which means post god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to hagoromo.

The rinne-sharingan came from the god tree, and madara never made dimensions.

Yes, he was TRYING to get close to her.

GG.

There was no panel of him screaming in the manga. why are you making things up? If he was scream there would be an actual comment about it like when Zetsu stabs him and he screams from all that chakra being shoved in him. He didn't scream from any of Naruto and Sasuke's attack.

Shown Beaten Up=/= actually beaten.

He does Scale to her Since she needed him to revive, what don't you understand about that?

He was close to his powers while using the Juubi. He surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and 4 x stronger from getting his other Rinnegan.

He did, The I.T States that you create a Dimension when you cast it. I said Limbo Dimension is Madara since his shadows Exist from there since you tried to say Obito Dimension was his because that where his eyes take him.

No Caption Provided

Stop ignoring facts of Jutsu. It states it right there that he creates an Empty Dimension under their Control.

No Caption Provided

Hagoromo>1 eye Madara Juubi pre-God Tree.

No Caption Provided

When Naruto Thinks About to Hagoromo words.

Hagoromo stated Madara got close to him using the Juubi's Powers.

Rinne sharingan +2 Rinnegan juubi Madara>>God Tree Absorbed 1 Eyed Juubi Madara=Hagoromo.

He surpassed Him. So, stop ignoring facts. only the Pre- God Tree absorb Madara was below Hagoromo, Post God tree Madara is above Him and is around Kaguya level because of these statements.

No Caption Provided

Stated that Zetsu was using I.T power for Kaguya the Whole-time.

I.T=51-52% of Kaguya's Power

3 eyed Madara=48-49% of Kaguya's power.

Together they create Kaguya. that was the point of the story was that Madara was no longer being Indra he started getting power-hungry and then he became Kaguya.

It's doesn't matter what you don't believe, I've given you facts to back up the truth and right now you are willed ignorance fallacy.

^ the fact back up that he is at least 48% of Kaguya, at bare minimum...and the fact that he surpassed Hagoromo who stated that Madara got to his level using the Juubi, that the fact that only using the Juubi got him on Hagoromo's level Madara getting the God tree, and Getting his eyes back puts him above Hagoromo.

Like I said Madara didn't even use His Susanoo against Sasuke and Naruto, and His limbo clones didn't even use Jutsu against them even those they have the same abilities as Madara.

which is why Madara is light years above Naruto and Sasuke.

Huh? Kashin Kojin states a holding back KCM naruto isnt on jigen's level, they never saw RBSM naruto in action.

What does tomoes have to do with anything?

The tablets show otsutsuki rankings, not power. Sasuke was sweating when he saw kaguya's resemblance in momoshiki, so technically he was sweating about momoshiki lol.

that doesn't even make sense and is a Questionable Cause Fallacy.

Sasuke didn't care about Momoshiki, he is weak as proven he needed pills to fight. that not the sign of someone being about Another person when you constantly need to eat pills. he is weak, and Kaguya is powerful even without using I.T Chakra to create ETSB.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki, Nothing Momoshiki did put him on Kaguya or Madara's level. he got beat and killed by a Rusty weaker Naruto, not only that he was killed by Base Naruto as well. then he was running from Kages.

Yea, Jigen when in his true state is above Kaguya, Sasuke was so scared that he didn't even try to fight Him, yet he rushed into the battle with Kinishiki and Momoshiki when he first encountered them.

Pretty much proves that Sasuke See Jigen Above Kaguya and Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Don't forget that Jigen casually Smacked Naruto who Base formed Killed Momoshiki.

Momoshiki asks sasuke for info on kaguya. Kinshiki states they found kaguya's world, they were searching for her.

Actually the otsutsuki clan was keeping tabs on earth's chakra levels, and they saw kaguya's power, yet kaguya still felt she needed to make an army for momoshiki and momoshiki was still confident in beating kaguya. Plus no feats suggest hes not planet level, infact he has feats to say he is planet level.

That was in the anime, in the Manga Momoshiki never said anything about Kaguya.

Momoshiki in the Anime didn't care at all about Kaguya he only cared about chakra, Kaguya made the army for Jigen who is her partner, not Momoshiki, she only has a connection with Jigen who was above Her.

>Gets Killed by Base Naruto=Not planet level.

>Ran From Kages=Not planet level.

>Naruto isn't planet level.

I just thought of 3 right their that suggest he isn't planet level.

No ten tails JJ(besides kaguya and jigen) is on hagoromo's level. And making a moon has nothing to do with planet level. Plus we saw momoshiki's dimension since it's where he took naruto, and in momoshiki's dimensions we see stars and god tree.

It actually is his. The I.T dimension isnt a dimension, unless you're trying to say every genjutsu is creating a dimension. the limbo isnt his dimension either he just sends projections of himself there.

I already disproved this argument of yours, it already stated that using I.T creates an empty Dimension.

We are not talking about other Genjutsu, because I.T is the ultimate Genjutsu not only that it's stated to be the strongest Genjutsu in exist.

Not only that it has Planetary+ Rang since you need to first Cast your eye on the Moon, which then reflects the World. you can only do this when you have the Ten-Tails. Obito needed 15mins of Gathering Chakra from the Shinobi alliance just to cast that Jutsu, while Madara instantly cast it when he gained his other eye.

I.T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all other Genjutsu.

So it doesn't matter what you say about other Genjutsu I.T scales above it because of it the strongest of All the Genjutsu attacks.

Yep. He did, infact he devoured it to the point it was a stump. And the god tree he ate had actually absorbed all the chakra out from the planet, which the planet was "dead"

Lol what? It wasnt kaguya's dimensions, it was momoshiki's, you would need proof to say momoshiki is lying when he considers it his. Naruto can tank attacks from kaguya, who creates and destroys her dimensions, sasuke can too. And momoshiki destroying his susanno with a lava jutsu is a feat for momoshiki, plus it was just the ribcage. Momoshiki is on that level.

Madara didnt tank it, he was limping and could barely stand after it. Plus that isnt even canon

The games were never actually canon, as they contradict the manga and have alot of stuff that never happened.

And i like how you resort to the non canon games to try to prove your point as you know the manga contradicts and never shows what you're saying and supports my point. Like i said if we consider the games DMS kakashi who is much weaker than naruto and sasuke would be universal since he beat rabbit form kaguya who casually destroys her universe sized dimensions. While madara isnt even planet level.

well, too bad he didn't get a Rinne Sharingan or Juubi Chakra from it, so it is irrelevant because it was weaker then what Kaguya and Madara had by a shit ton.

I never said it was Kaguya, I said we never see Momoshiki create a Dimension, but we see Kaguya and Madara do this. She Created her Dimensions with ETSB and I.T, That is something Momoshiki doesn't have. So unless there are other ways of Creating Dimension that we don't know of yet Momoshiki hasn't met the requirements that are needed to create a Dimension.

I said Momoshiki most likely Found a Dimension and then claimed it as his, we have Confirmation that ETSB or I.T is needed to create a new dimension from Zetsu himself.

He did tank it because he didn't die from the attack and then laughed about it, not only that he still was confident in winning the fight.

I mean the Manga has a lot of stuff that didn't happen and Contradict what the Author said previously so what is your point? Madara in the Manga didn't use His Susanoo which would have wrecked Naruto and Sasuke. Madara Limbo in the Manga didn't even use their abilities which would have one-shotted Naruto yes it would have Limbo+Light Fang=Dead Naruto since he can't see it nor dodge it.

The Madara in the Manga was Nerfed because he didn't even use all of his Rinnegan abilities or Susanoo. Madara in the game wasn't so much Nerfed by was stop by plot, as We see Naruto needed to fuse with Sasuke+absorb chakra from his 9 clones just to overpower one of Madara's attack.

pretty much proves the point that he was above Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto approved of this since he was there overseen the project.

Why are you being a hypocrite? if we are being honest the Novels are None canon because they are not even written by Kishimoto. Boruto isn't even his work, it's his ideas but He doesn't write them. NUNS4 was approved by Kishimoto, who okay the dialogue. At this point, it doesn't matter what you think because you are borderline doing the same thing then complaining about it when you can't debunk something. Not only that I've seen you use the anime to debate Boruto when you told me the anime is non-canon because you couldn't debunk what I said about the events.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Momoshiki wasn't searching for Kaguya they knew exactly where she was at because they have their own Territory that looks after. when they came to the Chunin Exam They never once asked about Kaguya. in the Anime Momoshiki arc, Momoshiki wasn't looking for Kaguya only when Kinishiki came back and told him about the Tears in Kaguya's Territory and that Earth had a massive amount of chakra more than any planet they been on did they go searching for Kaguya.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>Hagoromo>>>>Momoshiki.

There was no panel of him screaming in the manga. why are you making things up? If he was scream there would be an actual comment about it like when Zetsu stabs him and he screams from all that chakra being shoved in him. He didn't scream from any of Naruto and Sasuke's attack.

Shown Beaten Up=/= actually beaten.

He does Scale to her Since she needed him to revive, what don't you understand about that?

He was close to his powers while using the Juubi. He surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and 4 x stronger from getting his other Rinnegan.

He did, The I.T States that you create a Dimension when you cast it. I said Limbo Dimension is Madara since his shadows Exist from there since you tried to say Obito Dimension was his because that where his eyes take him.

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Stop ignoring facts of Jutsu. It states it right there that he creates an Empty Dimension under their Control.

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Hagoromo>1 eye Madara Juubi pre-God Tree.

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When Naruto Thinks About to Hagoromo words.

Hagoromo stated Madara got close to him using the Juubi's Powers.

Rinne sharingan +2 Rinnegan juubi Madara>>God Tree Absorbed 1 Eyed Juubi Madara=Hagoromo.

He surpassed Him. So, stop ignoring facts. only the Pre- God Tree absorb Madara was below Hagoromo, Post God tree Madara is above Him and is around Kaguya level because of these statements.

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Stated that Zetsu was using I.T power for Kaguya the Whole-time.

I.T=51-52% of Kaguya's Power

3 eyed Madara=48-49% of Kaguya's power.

Together they create Kaguya. that was the point of the story was that Madara was no longer being Indra he started getting power-hungry and then he became Kaguya.

It's doesn't matter what you don't believe, I've given you facts to back up the truth and right now you are willed ignorance fallacy.

^ the fact back up that he is at least 48% of Kaguya, at bare minimum...and the fact that he surpassed Hagoromo who stated that Madara got to his level using the Juubi, that the fact that only using the Juubi got him on Hagoromo's level Madara getting the God tree, and Getting his eyes back puts him above Hagoromo.

Like I said Madara didn't even use His Susanoo against Sasuke and Naruto, and His limbo clones didn't even use Jutsu against them even those they have the same abilities as Madara.

which is why Madara is light years above Naruto and Sasuke.

In the manga, and games(that you consider canon), we see madara screaming as he got hit by the attack, even in the anime he screams.

Madara was needed because he had the ten tails and rinne sharingan, what do you not understand about that. Not only that but kaguya is confirmed far above madara, so he doesnt scale to her at all.

He was getting close to him, even sasuke when he saw post god tree absorbed madara still states that he was the one hagoromo was talking about which means post god tree madara is still getting there. Not only that but this is the ghost hagoromo, not even Ten tails JJ hagoromo.

That would make no sense since "the dimension" where the victims were sent didnt even tp their bodies, they just stayed on earth.

How is madara around kaguya's level? Sasuke outright says kaguya is far above madara. Which means shes on another level.

If the I.T is above madara then hes weaker than i thought. By this logic he'd be weaker than 50% Kcm2 naruto.

Wait wait wait, you said the games are canon, yet when i bring up something thats in the games(even in the dialouge), you say its not canon? Make up your mind, its either the games are canon or not.

You have yet to prove madara is above naruto and sasuke, who can rip off limbs and force kaguya(who is far above madara) into rabbit form.

that doesn't even make sense and is a Questionable Cause Fallacy.

Sasuke didn't care about Momoshiki, he is weak as proven he needed pills to fight. that not the sign of someone being about Another person when you constantly need to eat pills. he is weak, and Kaguya is powerful even without using I.T Chakra to create ETSB.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki, Nothing Momoshiki did put him on Kaguya or Madara's level. he got beat and killed by a Rusty weaker Naruto, not only that he was killed by Base Naruto as well. then he was running from Kages.

Yea, Jigen when in his true state is above Kaguya, Sasuke was so scared that he didn't even try to fight Him, yet he rushed into the battle with Kinishiki and Momoshiki when he first encountered them.

Pretty much proves that Sasuke See Jigen Above Kaguya and Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Don't forget that Jigen casually Smacked Naruto who Base formed Killed Momoshiki.

?

Sasuke was sweating from momoshiki. How is momoshiki taking pills before he fights/to stay in a fight show he's weak? He only used the pills mid fight when he was fighting against naruto and sasuke, who are the strongest in the verse at this point

Momoshiki was weakened when he got killed. He was running from naruto, sasuke and the kages, and tanks attacks from naruto and even overpowers him with the lava golem, same naruto who rips off kaguya's limbs and forces her into rabbit form.

He only fought kinshiki cuz hes fodder to momoshiki, and he had help to fight momoshiki. Plus against jigen he was just looking for info.

Jigen never smacked naruto, he attacks base naruto then naruto goes KCM and kicks him right back and forces jigen to take him seriously. All while holding back to not destroy the village. Plus we have to wait for the next chapter to come to a concrete conclusion on jigen.

That was in the anime, in the Manga Momoshiki never said anything about Kaguya.

Momoshiki in the Anime didn't care at all about Kaguya he only cared about chakra, Kaguya made the army for Jigen who is her partner, not Momoshiki, she only has a connection with Jigen who was above Her.

>Gets Killed by Base Naruto=Not planet level.

>Ran From Kages=Not planet level.

>Naruto isn't planet level.

I just thought of 3 right their that suggest he isn't planet level.

In the manga, kinshiki informs momoshiki they found kaguya's world, implying they were looking for it, he even asks sasuke for info on her.

She was preparing for the one the otsutsuki sent for her, who was momoshiki and kinshiki.

He was weakened when he died.

He ran from the 2 strongest people in the verse and the kages.

Naruto is planet level since you think juubito is, and naruto is WAY above him. He's also way above madara and above kaguya by scaling to momoshiki, by feats he'd be on the same level as kaguya, and could potentially even beat her. This is by feats alone, if we take the momoshiki statement seriously he'd be above her.

I already disproved this argument of yours, it already stated that using I.T creates an empty Dimension.

We are not talking about other Genjutsu, because I.T is the ultimate Genjutsu not only that it's stated to be the strongest Genjutsu in exist.

Not only that it has Planetary+ Rang since you need to first Cast your eye on the Moon, which then reflects the World. you can only do this when you have the Ten-Tails. Obito needed 15mins of Gathering Chakra from the Shinobi alliance just to cast that Jutsu, while Madara instantly cast it when he gained his other eye.

I.T>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>all other Genjutsu.

So it doesn't matter what you say about other Genjutsu I.T scales above it because of it the strongest of All the Genjutsu attacks.

The I.T is actually worst than shisui's genjutsu(not even gonna try to spell it), it's able to genjutsu edo itachi, while the edo kages are unaffected by the I.T.

Actually you only need the rinne-sharingan to do it.

well, too bad he didn't get a Rinne Sharingan or Juubi Chakra from it, so it is irrelevant because it was weaker then what Kaguya and Madara had by a shit ton.

I never said it was Kaguya, I said we never see Momoshiki create a Dimension, but we see Kaguya and Madara do this. She Created her Dimensions with ETSB and I.T, That is something Momoshiki doesn't have. So unless there are other ways of Creating Dimension that we don't know of yet Momoshiki hasn't met the requirements that are needed to create a Dimension.

I said Momoshiki most likely Found a Dimension and then claimed it as his, we have Confirmation that ETSB or I.T is needed to create a new dimension from Zetsu himself.

He did tank it because he didn't die from the attack and then laughed about it, not only that he still was confident in winning the fight.

I mean the Manga has a lot of stuff that didn't happen and Contradict what the Author said previously so what is your point? Madara in the Manga didn't use His Susanoo which would have wrecked Naruto and Sasuke. Madara Limbo in the Manga didn't even use their abilities which would have one-shotted Naruto yes it would have Limbo+Light Fang=Dead Naruto since he can't see it nor dodge it.

The Madara in the Manga was Nerfed because he didn't even use all of his Rinnegan abilities or Susanoo. Madara in the game wasn't so much Nerfed by was stop by plot, as We see Naruto needed to fuse with Sasuke+absorb chakra from his 9 clones just to overpower one of Madara's attack.

pretty much proves the point that he was above Naruto and Sasuke. Kishimoto approved of this since he was there overseen the project.

Why are you being a hypocrite? if we are being honest the Novels are None canon because they are not even written by Kishimoto. Boruto isn't even his work, it's his ideas but He doesn't write them. NUNS4 was approved by Kishimoto, who okay the dialogue. At this point, it doesn't matter what you think because you are borderline doing the same thing then complaining about it when you can't debunk something. Not only that I've seen you use the anime to debate Boruto when you told me the anime is non-canon because you couldn't debunk what I said about the events.

Kaguya is above Momoshiki. Momoshiki wasn't searching for Kaguya they knew exactly where she was at because they have their own Territory that looks after. when they came to the Chunin Exam They never once asked about Kaguya. in the Anime Momoshiki arc, Momoshiki wasn't looking for Kaguya only when Kinishiki came back and told him about the Tears in Kaguya's Territory and that Earth had a massive amount of chakra more than any planet they been on did they go searching for Kaguya.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>Hagoromo>>>>Momoshiki.

Actually no, momoshiki's god tree had absorbed the whole planet of it's chakra. While madara and kaguya's just had all tailed beasts chakra(which is why it got the rinne sharingan). Unless you can prove the 10 tails is planet level without headcanon or you making up statements.

ESTB doesnt make dimensions, it was gonna destroy it. And madara didnt make a dimension, even if he did it would only be the illusion. Plus kaguya never casted the I.T when she made her dimension, therefore there are other ways, and momoshiki made his dimension like however he did.

Madara never tanked anything, he was limping after getting hit from it and had to run away. Also he never really tanked the attacks, the attacks kinda just hit the CT back at madara which is what he got hit by. Naruto was confident of winning aswell so whats your point? Plus werent you that same guy saying madara couldnt die, so him surviving isnt an argument, from you at least.

Naruto had already dodged the light fang and could sense the limbo clones. And sasuke's susanno had overpowered madara's in the game that you consider canon. Plus madara lost his sharingan(due to being revived) and only had the rinnegan as his eyes, so he wasnt making a susanno.

In the game, we see naruto and sasuke do a combined attack that nearly one shotted madara to the point where he couldnt even walk properly.

Cool, since the games are canon(by your logic), DMS kakashi(who is weaker than naruto and sasuke) overpowered the rabbit form kaguya that destroyed her universe sized dimensions. Therefore NUNS4 naruto and sasuke are universal+ while madara is planet level AT BEST.

I've debunked your NUNS4 points and countered with my own, that you've failed to debunk. Then you become a hypocrite and state that madara never used his susanno, even tho you say the games are canon. You're also being a hypocrite when you say the novels arent canon but the games are when the novels were supervised by kishimoto, and you say the novels werent written by him, but the games werent either, yet apparently they are canon but the novels arent? Plus the games are contradicted by what happens in the manga while the novels arent contradicted by anything.

Momoshiki was told kaguya had been killed which is why he didnt ask for further information when they got to the chunin exams.

Momoshiki>kaguya>>hagoromo>>>>>>madara.

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#472 Posted by Token1300 (892 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoever won on death battle lol

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#473 Posted by HSTgoddess (423 posts) - - Show Bio

10 pages OMG

Online
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#474 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi: Nothing you said Negates the fact that Momoshiki doesn't have Rinne- Sharingan. Which is what Kaguya and Madara used to create a dimension or ETSB which also creates a Dimension. so, the only conclusion is he can't make a Dimension.

Madara is above the Sage of Six paths which is facts. the Sage Stated Madara with just the Juubi was close to his powers. Logically he surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and both Rinnegan.

Naruto while Weakened, Out of shape, Weaker than his prime, and at half power smacked Momoshiki.

Not only that Base Naruto was able to fight and block attacks from Momoshiki.

Momoshiki best Feat was knocking out an out of shape weaker naruto with a country level attack. he did this while eating pills that make you instantly stronger.

Momoshiki with pills=Country level>>Momoshiki no pills.

I proved that Momoshiki isn't planet level because none of his feats is planet level.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>Momoshiki.

Until you show me a planet level feat that he has done on screen all you are doing is going back in circles. start by showing me a planet level feat from Momoshiki, before you say he is planet level or even close to Kaguya or Madara level.

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#475 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said=

@mattyboi: Nothing you said Negates the fact that Momoshiki doesn't have Rinne- Sharingan. Which is what Kaguya and Madara used to create a dimension or ETSB which also creates a Dimension. so, the only conclusion is he can't make a Dimension.

Kaguya cant make dimensions with ETSB, just destroys them, and madara can only "make a dimension" with the I.T, except kaguya didnt use it to make her dimensions. Therefore you dont need either to make a dimension, and nothing you say can change the fact that momoshiki made dimensions.

Madara is above the Sage of Six paths which is facts. the Sage Stated Madara with just the Juubi was close to his powers. Logically he surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and both Rinnegan.

Then, when he gets the god tree sasuke still says hes getting close to hagoromo, and you'd need to use headcanon to say one rinnegan alone is making him stronger than hagoromo.

Naruto while Weakened, Out of shape, Weaker than his prime, and at half power smacked Momoshiki.

He's not actually weaker, just lost his battle instincts/skill, didnt get weaker at all tho. And if you mean with sasuke then yes, naruto, with sasuke smacked momoshiki. Momoshiki overpowered both of them when he split them up, for example he was beating the full avatar of kurama with the lava golem and he nearly killed sasuke.

Not only that Base Naruto was able to fight and block attacks from Momoshiki.

Actually no, base naruto got smacked away and forced into RBSM.

Momoshiki best Feat was knocking out an out of shape weaker naruto with a country level attack. he did this while eating pills that make you instantly stronger.

I thought you said naruto is above juubito, who you say is planet level... also momoshiki's attack would be planet-solar system level, if it was only planet level it wasnt doing much damage to the nine tails who can tank attacks from the multi continental ten tails, this is before the so6p buff thats far above a ten tails and god tree amp.

I proved that Momoshiki isn't planet level because none of his feats is planet level.

One shotting naruto=planet level+

Making a dimension=planet level(by your logic not mine.)

Giving naruto and sasuke a good fight=planet level+ when they have fought beings beyond that scale. Hell naruto could have nigh solar system AP since he can rip off limbs from kaguya who could basically bathe in her ETSB(thats solar system level) And he can destroy her body and force her into rabbit form if he uses jutsu.

Until you show me a planet level feat that he has done on screen all you are doing is going back in circles. start by showing me a planet level feat from Momoshiki, before you say he is planet level or even close to Kaguya or Madara level.

Listed above. He can fight with and one shot people who are above madara and juubito who you claim is planet level. And he is stated and imply'd above kaguya. Plus you cant ask for a direct planet level feat when the only one in the naruto verse that did it was kaguya, then again you can make an argument that her feat doesnt count since it was only stated to be that level. You gotta include statements and scaling.

Edit: And before you bring up the "oh well madara tanked both of their attacks", he was getting wrecked by it and was screaming in pain and bloodied. He only survived because he switched a limbo. Plus naruto was stronger in his fight with kaguya(or at least used stronger jutsu on her)

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#476 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said=

@mattyboi: Nothing you said Negates the fact that Momoshiki doesn't have Rinne- Sharingan. Which is what Kaguya and Madara used to create a dimension or ETSB which also creates a Dimension. so, the only conclusion is he can't make a Dimension.

Kaguya cant make dimensions with ETSB, just destroys them, and madara can only "make a dimension" with the I.T, except kaguya didnt use it to make her dimensions. Therefore you dont need either to make a dimension, and nothing you say can change the fact that momoshiki made dimensions.

Madara is above the Sage of Six paths which is facts. the Sage Stated Madara with just the Juubi was close to his powers. Logically he surpassed him after he gained the God Tree and both Rinnegan.

Then, when he gets the god tree sasuke still says hes getting close to hagoromo, and you'd need to use headcanon to say one rinnegan alone is making him stronger than hagoromo.

Naruto while Weakened, Out of shape, Weaker than his prime, and at half power smacked Momoshiki.

He's not actually weaker, just lost his battle instincts/skill, didnt get weaker at all tho. And if you mean with sasuke then yes, naruto, with sasuke smacked momoshiki. Momoshiki overpowered both of them when he split them up, for example he was beating the full avatar of kurama with the lava golem and he nearly killed sasuke.

Not only that Base Naruto was able to fight and block attacks from Momoshiki.

Actually no, base naruto got smacked away and forced into RBSM.

Momoshiki best Feat was knocking out an out of shape weaker naruto with a country level attack. he did this while eating pills that make you instantly stronger.

I thought you said naruto is above juubito, who you say is planet level... also momoshiki's attack would be planet-solar system level, if it was only planet level it wasnt doing much damage to the nine tails who can tank attacks from the multi continental ten tails, this is before the so6p buff thats far above a ten tails and god tree amp.

I proved that Momoshiki isn't planet level because none of his feats is planet level.

One shotting naruto=planet level+

Making a dimension=planet level(by your logic not mine.)

Giving naruto and sasuke a good fight=planet level+ when they have fought beings beyond that scale. Hell naruto could have nigh solar system AP since he can rip off limbs from kaguya who could basically bathe in her ETSB(thats solar system level) And he can destroy her body and force her into rabbit form if he uses jutsu.

Until you show me a planet level feat that he has done on screen all you are doing is going back in circles. start by showing me a planet level feat from Momoshiki, before you say he is planet level or even close to Kaguya or Madara level.

Listed above. He can fight with and one shot people who are above madara and juubito who you claim is planet level. And he is stated and imply'd above kaguya. Plus you cant ask for a direct planet level feat when the only one in the naruto verse that did it was kaguya, then again you can make an argument that her feat doesnt count since it was only stated to be that level. You gotta include statements and scaling.

Edit: And before you bring up the "oh well madara tanked both of their attacks", he was getting wrecked by it and was screaming in pain and bloodied. He only survived because he switched a limbo. Plus naruto was stronger in his fight with kaguya(or at least used stronger jutsu on her)

Kaguya cant make dimensions with ETSB, just destroys them, and madara can only "make a dimension" with the I.T, except kaguya didnt use it to make her dimensions. Therefore you dont need either to make a dimension, and nothing you say can change the fact that momoshiki made dimensions.

Zetus said when she Uses ETSB a new dimension is created.

Nothing you said proves Momoshiki can destroy a Dimension or use such power into combat Jutsu. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, Momoshiki never made a dimension.

Then, when he gets the god tree sasuke still says hes getting close to hagoromo, and you'd need to use headcanon to say one rinnegan alone is making him stronger than hagoromo.

Sasuke never said that because he was never around when Madara absorbed the God tree, Madara with Juubi is on nearly as powerful as Hagoromo is.

I am pretty sure Hagoromo knows what he is talking about.

Hagoromo own words>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your headcanon.

Nice try. Juubi Madara<Hagoromo<God tree Madara<<Double Rinnegan Madara<Rinne Sharingan Madara<Kaguya

He's not actually weaker, just lost his battle instincts/skill, didnt get weaker at all tho. And if you mean with sasuke then yes, naruto, with sasuke smacked momoshiki. Momoshiki overpowered both of them when he split them up, for example he was beating the full avatar of kurama with the lava golem and he nearly killed sasuke.

That is headcanon. The proof is in the pudding, Naruto couldn't even Dodge Shin's Attack while he was in BSM. that pretty much proves he is massively weaker.

Momoshiki overpowered Weak Versions of Naruto and Sasuke. they were not even 100% in that fight and they still stomped him.

Actually no, base naruto got smacked away and forced into RBSM.

before that he blocked couple attacks, then when he powered up he smacked Momoshiki casually.

after that, he killed Momoshiki while in base form.

One shotting naruto=planet level+

Making a dimension=planet level(by your logic not mine.)

Giving naruto and sasuke a good fight=planet level+ when they have fought beings beyond that scale. Hell naruto could have nigh solar system AP since he can rip off limbs from kaguya who could basically bathe in her ETSB(thats solar system level) And he can destroy her body and force her into rabbit form if he uses jutsu.

Nope, because Shin could fight him who isn't even planet level.

Never happened, no proof he made it and you can't prove that he did.

Nope because Naruto and Sasuke are not planet level. not only that they were less than half their powers and in weakens states. 100% naruto can one-shot Momoshiki.

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Momoshiki could barely defend himself against Fodder.

Just so you know Killer Bee is more powerful than the Kages since they said the only chakra larger than His was naruto.

Killer Bee>>>Kages.

Momoshiki needs to fuse to do what Madara can casually do.

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Sage Mode Minato>>>Darui in Boruto

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With Just Two Moves He takes out 3 Kages with Just Taijutsu without even trying.

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Momoshiki can't even do this against Weak KAges yet you want people to believe he planet level? ROFL.

Naw fam, Momoshiki isn't planet level Get that crap out.

Listed above. He can fight with and one shot people who are above madara and juubito who you claim is planet level. And he is stated and imply'd above kaguya. Plus you cant ask for a direct planet level feat when the only one in the naruto verse that did it was kaguya, then again you can make an argument that her feat doesnt count since it was only stated to be that level. You gotta include statements and scaling.

Edit: And before you bring up the "oh well madara tanked both of their attacks", he was getting wrecked by it and was screaming in pain and bloodied. He only survived because he switched a limbo. Plus naruto was stronger in his fight with kaguya(or at least used stronger jutsu on her)

I listed why he isn't Planet level. which you are ignoring, you keep talking about him creating a dimension yet he couldn't use that power to knock the Kages, who are weaker than Minato, and Killer Bee.

While Madara casually Stomps 3 Kages with 2 TaiJutsu Moves.

It Pretty much proves Madara>>>>Momoshiki.

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#477 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

Zetus said when she Uses ETSB a new dimension is created.

Nothing you said proves Momoshiki can destroy a Dimension or use such power into combat Jutsu. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, Momoshiki never made a dimension.

Zetsu says the ESTB is gonna destroy the dimension, then kaguya was gonna recreate it.

Him being above kaguya is enough proof.

He did, unless you can prove the dimension wasnt his.

Sasuke never said that because he was never around when Madara absorbed the God tree, Madara with Juubi is on nearly as powerful as Hagoromo is.

I am pretty sure Hagoromo knows what he is talking about.

Hagoromo own words>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your headcanon.

Nice try. Juubi Madara<Hagoromo<God tree Madara<<Double Rinnegan Madara<Rinne Sharingan Madara<Kaguya

He states "this is the man hagoromo was talking about", which means post god tree absorbed madara was still getting close.

Plus this is just ghost form hagoromo, not even ten tails JJ.

I use the manga but apparently its headcanon, then when you use actual headcanon you treat it as fact.

lol sasuke basically says god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to a ghost hagoromo without the ten tails lol.

That is headcanon. The proof is in the pudding, Naruto couldn't even Dodge Shin's Attack while he was in BSM. that pretty much proves he is massively weaker.

Momoshiki overpowered Weak Versions of Naruto and Sasuke. they were not even 100% in that fight and they still stomped him.

It's actually not headcanon, naruto has shown nothing that suggests hes weaker, just out of battle shape. Naruto was surprise attacked by sasuke's sword, something you choose to ignore. You cant dodge something you dont even know is gonna attack you, unless naruto had ultra instinct, which he doesnt.

Naruto was at 50% of the nine tails, which is basically what he was in the war arc, yet momoshiki overpowers the full kurama avatar, as for sasuke i agree he was weakened.

before that he blocked couple attacks, then when he powered up he smacked Momoshiki casually.

after that, he killed Momoshiki while in base form.

Actually no, naruto was running away till he went RBSM, then gets 2 hits in that momoshiki casually tanks, then proceeds to overpower the full kurama avatar.

Sure, naruto killed a beaten badly and weakened momoshiki.

Nope, because Shin could fight him who isn't even planet level.

Never happened, no proof he made it and you can't prove that he did.

Nope because Naruto and Sasuke are not planet level. not only that they were less than half their powers and in weakens states. 100% naruto can one-shot Momoshiki.

Naruto didnt actually "fight" shin, he was just trying to protect the kids, same thing for sasuke.

He claims it his, and it isnt a dimension made by anyone else.

Naruto and sasuke are planet level, you literally said juubito was planet level and that naruto surpassed him. Plus naruto is ripping off kaguya's limbs and forcing her into rabbit form when she can bathe in solar system level attacks.

Momoshiki could barely defend himself against Fodder.

Just so you know Killer Bee is more powerful than the Kages since they said the only chakra larger than His was naruto.

Killer Bee>>>Kages.

Momoshiki needs to fuse to do what Madara can casually do.

He casually counters the kages wdym.

Yup, and momoshiki fodderized bee.

Madara never fought the current kages.

With Just Two Moves He takes out 3 Kages with Just Taijutsu without even trying.

What a weakened minato, kakashi and gaara? Not only that but minato was in base, and madara needed a few attacks to not even ko them, while momoshiki casually one shots stronger versions of these guys for fun.

Momoshiki can't even do this against Weak KAges yet you want people to believe he planet level? ROFL.

Naw fam, Momoshiki isn't planet level Get that crap out.

He did do this(with less difficulty) to the kages, infact he did it in one move, that ko'd them.

By this logic madara and kaguya arent planet level, since momoshiki is above them by feats and statements.

I listed why he isn't Planet level. which you are ignoring, you keep talking about him creating a dimension yet he couldn't use that power to knock the Kages, who are weaker than Minato, and Killer Bee.

While Madara casually Stomps 3 Kages with 2 TaiJutsu Moves.

It Pretty much proves Madara>>>>Momoshiki.

He actually fodderized bee, and base minato wouldnt be a problem for him either.

While momoshiki casually one shots 5 kages with 1 attack, and they're actually knocked out, while madara cant even do that.

Its actually the other way around. This proves momoshiki>>>>>>>madara, not only that but momoshiki stomps the full kurama avatar, thats the strongest form of naruto, while not even in it, he can rip off kaguya's limbs and force her into rabbit form, same kaguya thats far greater than madara, yeah, momoshiki one shots madara tbh.

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#478 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

Zetus said when she Uses ETSB a new dimension is created.

Nothing you said proves Momoshiki can destroy a Dimension or use such power into combat Jutsu. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No, Momoshiki never made a dimension.

Zetsu says the ESTB is gonna destroy the dimension, then kaguya was gonna recreate it.

Him being above kaguya is enough proof.

He did, unless you can prove the dimension wasnt his.

Sasuke never said that because he was never around when Madara absorbed the God tree, Madara with Juubi is on nearly as powerful as Hagoromo is.

I am pretty sure Hagoromo knows what he is talking about.

Hagoromo own words>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>your headcanon.

Nice try. Juubi Madara<Hagoromo<God tree Madara<<Double Rinnegan Madara<Rinne Sharingan Madara<Kaguya

He states "this is the man hagoromo was talking about", which means post god tree absorbed madara was still getting close.

Plus this is just ghost form hagoromo, not even ten tails JJ.

I use the manga but apparently its headcanon, then when you use actual headcanon you treat it as fact.

lol sasuke basically says god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to a ghost hagoromo without the ten tails lol.

That is headcanon. The proof is in the pudding, Naruto couldn't even Dodge Shin's Attack while he was in BSM. that pretty much proves he is massively weaker.

Momoshiki overpowered Weak Versions of Naruto and Sasuke. they were not even 100% in that fight and they still stomped him.

It's actually not headcanon, naruto has shown nothing that suggests hes weaker, just out of battle shape. Naruto was surprise attacked by sasuke's sword, something you choose to ignore. You cant dodge something you dont even know is gonna attack you, unless naruto had ultra instinct, which he doesnt.

Naruto was at 50% of the nine tails, which is basically what he was in the war arc, yet momoshiki overpowers the full kurama avatar, as for sasuke i agree he was weakened.

before that he blocked couple attacks, then when he powered up he smacked Momoshiki casually.

after that, he killed Momoshiki while in base form.

Actually no, naruto was running away till he went RBSM, then gets 2 hits in that momoshiki casually tanks, then proceeds to overpower the full kurama avatar.

Sure, naruto killed a beaten badly and weakened momoshiki.

Nope, because Shin could fight him who isn't even planet level.

Never happened, no proof he made it and you can't prove that he did.

Nope because Naruto and Sasuke are not planet level. not only that they were less than half their powers and in weakens states. 100% naruto can one-shot Momoshiki.

Naruto didnt actually "fight" shin, he was just trying to protect the kids, same thing for sasuke.

He claims it his, and it isnt a dimension made by anyone else.

Naruto and sasuke are planet level, you literally said juubito was planet level and that naruto surpassed him. Plus naruto is ripping off kaguya's limbs and forcing her into rabbit form when she can bathe in solar system level attacks.

Momoshiki could barely defend himself against Fodder.

Just so you know Killer Bee is more powerful than the Kages since they said the only chakra larger than His was naruto.

Killer Bee>>>Kages.

Momoshiki needs to fuse to do what Madara can casually do.

He casually counters the kages wdym.

Yup, and momoshiki fodderized bee.

Madara never fought the current kages.

With Just Two Moves He takes out 3 Kages with Just Taijutsu without even trying.

What a weakened minato, kakashi and gaara? Not only that but minato was in base, and madara needed a few attacks to not even ko them, while momoshiki casually one shots stronger versions of these guys for fun.

Momoshiki can't even do this against Weak KAges yet you want people to believe he planet level? ROFL.

Naw fam, Momoshiki isn't planet level Get that crap out.

He did do this(with less difficulty) to the kages, infact he did it in one move, that ko'd them.

By this logic madara and kaguya arent planet level, since momoshiki is above them by feats and statements.

I listed why he isn't Planet level. which you are ignoring, you keep talking about him creating a dimension yet he couldn't use that power to knock the Kages, who are weaker than Minato, and Killer Bee.

While Madara casually Stomps 3 Kages with 2 TaiJutsu Moves.

It Pretty much proves Madara>>>>Momoshiki.

He actually fodderized bee, and base minato wouldnt be a problem for him either.

While momoshiki casually one shots 5 kages with 1 attack, and they're actually knocked out, while madara cant even do that.

Its actually the other way around. This proves momoshiki>>>>>>>madara, not only that but momoshiki stomps the full kurama avatar, thats the strongest form of naruto, while not even in it, he can rip off kaguya's limbs and force her into rabbit form, same kaguya thats far greater than madara, yeah, momoshiki one shots madara tbh.

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#479 Edited by Token1300 (892 posts) - - Show Bio

People still think Momoshiki is fodder cus of that fight with kages.

Kinshiki scales to Sasuke, who needed Rinnegan to fight him. Kinshiki was caught off guard and punched away By Kurotsuchi. Kinshiki after that is onced again caught off guard and damaged by Sasuke’s Chidori. Kinshiki is weakened enough post Chidori to be restrained by Kurotsuchi and Chojuro.

This just goes to show that the kages have gotten stronger and need to be upgraded,

not that Momoshiki in base or Kinshiki is weak.

Even against the 10 Tails the 4 Kages managed to restrain it, despite the 10 tails being far more superior in terms of chakra levels. In Naruto the strongest doesn’t always win, sometimes the underdog can overpower with hax or pure better technique and combination. If you’re used to Tooth and Nail mangas like DBZ that focus solely on the stronger guy always wins, then you wouldn’t understand the verse of Naruto and how Hax and technique can play a vital role.

Momoshiki was flying away from Gaara and Darui instead of just one shooting them for some reason. But he did block a serious sword swing from Darui using only one hand

https://www.mangapanda.com/boruto-naruto-next-generations/7/35

The writer probably just wanted to show that the new kages aren’t complete trash

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#480 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

who needed Rinnegan to fight him.

To be fair, sasuke was low on chakra and was only using the base sharingan in that fight, nor did he use any ninjutsu.

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#481 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

Zetsu says the ESTB is gonna destroy the dimension, then kaguya was gonna recreate it.

Him being above kaguya is enough proof.

He did, unless you can prove the dimension wasnt his.

He isn't above her. As I said Being a greater threat does not mean more powerful.

Since you like to use Out of World examples, Let me through one at you. Voldemort is considered a Greater Threat then Grindelwald. However, that doesn't prove he is more powerful than Grindelwald.

Statements From the Author and Pottermore that Says Voldemort is Stronger than Grindelwald proves it not him being a greater threat. you have not proved that Momoshiki is more powerful than Kaguya. The only thing you have shown me was that he was a greater threat, which is irrelevant because there was two of them this time, not just one. Greater Threat because they are fighting two of them, but that doesn't prove they are more powerful As I proved when Kages can fight them just fine, and not get one-shotted.

He states "this is the man hagoromo was talking about", which means post god tree absorbed madara was still getting close.

Plus this is just ghost form hagoromo, not even ten tails JJ.

I use the manga but apparently its headcanon, then when you use actual headcanon you treat it as fact.

lol sasuke basically says god tree absorbed madara is still getting close to a ghost hagoromo without the ten tails lol.

I just read the Manga over again, from chapter 672 The night of Moth... to 676 The infinite Dream. Nowhere did Sasuke make that Comment on Madara.

So, you are lying and making things up. No, you didn't use the Manga otherwise Cite the chapter this line was said in.

FYI Ghost Hagoromo is more powerful than Base Rinnegan Hagoromo and Hamura.

It took Hagoromo+ Hamura to Seal Kaguya in the past. Hagoromo by himself was able to give Naruto and Sasuke the Seals for Kaguya.

which proves he is more powerful than both Rinnegan Hagoromo+Byakugan Hamura combined power.

Not only that, Kaguya in the fourth ninja war is more powerful than Ancient Kaguya that Hagoromo fought.

in The 4th Ninja War, Kaguya was only missing half of the 9 tails to be complete. I.T chakra was stated to be more powerful than incomplete Juubi.

4th ninja War Kaguya>Kaguya in the past that fought Hagoromo&Hamura.

It's actually not headcanon, naruto has shown nothing that suggests hes weaker, just out of battle shape. Naruto was surprise attacked by sasuke's sword, something you choose to ignore. You cant dodge something you dont even know is gonna attack you, unless naruto had ultra instinct, which he doesnt.

Naruto was at 50% of the nine tails, which is basically what he was in the war arc, yet momoshiki overpowers the full kurama avatar, as for sasuke i agree he was weakened.

It's is Headcanon, because Shin was able to fight him and not get one shot by him.

which proves he was much weaker. you again failed to acknowledge Naruto's prior Condition before even arriving at that planet. Naruto had just got out of a battle with Momoshiki, which We can both agree Naruto didn't get healed at all after he was knocked out by a Country-level attack.

Not only was he only using half of the 9 tails he was still battle damaged from Momoshiki earlier attack.

He was operating at half power and half of the 9 tails power. when he was fighting in the 4th ninja War, he was at full power, with Half of the 9 tails power.

there is a complete difference.

Actually no, naruto was running away till he went RBSM, then gets 2 hits in that momoshiki casually tanks, then proceeds to overpower the full kurama avatar.

Sure, naruto killed a beaten badly and weakened momoshiki.

LMFAO, That kick Naruto gave Momoshiki sent him flying what are you talking about? he never tanked Naruto's attack.

Naruto didnt actually "fight" shin, he was just trying to protect the kids, same thing for sasuke.

He claims it his, and it isnt a dimension made by anyone else.

Naruto and sasuke are planet level, you literally said juubito was planet level and that naruto surpassed him. Plus naruto is ripping off kaguya's limbs and forcing her into rabbit form when she can bathe in solar system level attacks.

I said Full power Juubi is Planet level, But okay. I said Obito with the Sword of Nunoboko is planet level because he said he will destroy the planet with it.

Do you have proof that no one else made that dimension? Kaguya claimed Earth as her when people were already living on the planet long before she came. I don't see your point.

Nope, they are not planet level, that just means that Kaguya isn't that far above Madara since Naruto and Sasuke are able to fight her, and Madara.

Sure they did more against Kaguya, but still, my point remains that Kaguya and Madara powers are close the only Kaguya you can say it way above Madara is Rabbit God Kaguya. not only that it's Pretty ambiguous and arbitrary since no statement or number was given on how much more powerful she was from doing that.

Like I said 4th Ninja War Kaguya was only 2x stronger than Madara, Rabbit God Kaguya was 3x stronger than Madara. I said this because all we know is that The I.T chakra is way stronger than the Ten tails chakra.

We have Confirmation that Kaguya is the Ten tails. This was stated by Hagoromo.

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in the 4th Ninja, War Kaguya was only missing the other half of the 9 tails to be complete, and Naruto stated the I.T Chakra is greater than Juubi chakra. Already the chakra Kaguya got was stronger than the chakra she had in the past.

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Rabbit God Kaguya>4th Ninja War base Kaguya>Kaguya in the past> 3 eyed Madara>>Hagoromo.

He casually counters the kages wdym.

Yup, and momoshiki fodderized bee.

Madara never fought the current kages.

Momoshiki did that when He was Fused. You said base Momoshiki is Planet level, yet he couldn't Casually defeat the Kages in his base form, which proves he isn't planet level.

Minato is more powerful than those Kages are, so I mean so what if Madara never fought them. the fact is Minato is more powerful than they are, and Killer Bee is stated to have the second strongest chakra on the planet next to Naruto.

Killer Bee>>> the Kages.

Momoshiki had help fighting the Killer Bee, not only that The Kages knew about Momoshiki abilities, while Killer bee didn't otherwise he would have stomped him.

What a weakened minato, kakashi and gaara? Not only that but minato was in base, and madara needed a few attacks to not even ko them, while momoshiki casually one shots stronger versions of these guys for fun.

Minato was in Sage mode you see the Sage mode eyes of his. Even then Base Minato defeated Ay and Killer Bee without even using Sage mode. Madara only used 2 attacks and knocked 3 Kages out.

LMFAO now you can't count but you are trying to debate naruto?

He did do this(with less difficulty) to the kages, infact he did it in one move, that ko'd them.

By this logic madara and kaguya arent planet level, since momoshiki is above them by feats and statements.

LMFAO...Momoshiki couldn't even destroy Gaara's sand attack.

The only person Madara touched was Minato, then he kicked Minato's arm at Kakashi which took him out. he did all of this which knocked out Gaara, Minato, and Kakashi.

Momoshiki has no statements that he above them, he only has a statement that he is a greater threat which doesn't translate to power at all.

He actually fodderized bee, and base minato wouldnt be a problem for him either.

While momoshiki casually one shots 5 kages with 1 attack, and they're actually knocked out, while madara cant even do that.

Its actually the other way around. This proves momoshiki>>>>>>>madara, not only that but momoshiki stomps the full kurama avatar, thats the strongest form of naruto, while not even in it, he can rip off kaguya's limbs and force her into rabbit form, same kaguya thats far greater than madara, yeah, momoshiki one shots madara tbh.

no, Momoshiki+Kinishiki's help defeated Killer bee. That was sage mode Minato, who is above every one of the Kages Momoshiki fought except Naruto. Momoshiki couldn't even stop Darui who is weaker than Killer Bee and Minato.

once they split Momoshiki from Kinishiki, Momoshiki ran. Like I said Killer bee had no knowledge of Momoshiki being able to absorb his attacks and do all that, if he did then he wouldn't have done all that and would have just hand to hand him which he would have stomped Momoshiki.

that was 50% Naruto using 50% of the 9 tails power since it got absorbed by Momoshiki.

LMFAO, wrong again.

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Stated That Kaguya was using massive amounts of chakra and needed to recover her chakra.

The GG on that, like I, said Kaguya was fatigued and needed to recover her chakra, Naruto was only able to do that on Fatigued Kaguya.

100% Kaguya owned Naruto.

Not only that Naruto and Sasuke needed to Work together to take down Madara.

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all they needed to do to defeat Madara was touch him with the seals. which doesn't mean they were stronger, it actually means they were weaker.

Not only that Madara less than 50% of his chakra since 1 eyed Madara=1 Limbo clone.

2 eyed Madara=4 Limbo clones.

Madara was at 1/5th of his full power while fighting Both Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara got 4-5x stronger which means he surpassed Hagoromo.

Madara casually destroys Momoshiki.

I.T Or Limbo is enough to one Shot Momoshiki.

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#482 Posted by ManimalMan (1048 posts) - - Show Bio

Madara never surpassed hagoromo

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#483 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

to Address your Sasuke Argument you keep using.

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Sasuke needed to Store more chakra to fight Madara, which means he isn't on Madara level since Madara can fight both of them non-stop with no sign of Fatigue.

1 eyed Madara with Juubi was nearly as powerful as the Sage of six paths. you can't deny that because it's stated by the Sage himself.

He then Absorbs the God Tree and gets massively stronger. So if he is around the Sages level with The Juubi, then he is equal to Hagoromo with the God Tree.

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The Rinnegan like the Sharingan increases the strength as well as the Dojutsu of the Eye.

You cannot disagree with the facts. Madara's Dojutsu's Capacity was increased by 5. This would scale across the board.

Clearly this isn't a 1+1 = 2 scenario.

Facts:

  • Madara could only create 1 Limbo with 1 Rinnegan.
  • Madara could create 5 Limbos with 2 Rinnegan.

1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power<Hagoromo.

God Tree 1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power=Hagoromo>1 eyed Juubi Madara.

God Tree 2 Rinnegan Juubi Madara=full power Madara 4-5x stronger than Before.

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#484 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000:

He isn't above her. As I said Being a greater threat does not mean more powerful.

Since you like to use Out of World examples, Let me through one at you. Voldemort is considered a Greater Threat then Grindelwald. However, that doesn't prove he is more powerful than Grindelwald.

Statements From the Author and Pottermore that Says Voldemort is Stronger than Grindelwald proves it not him being a greater threat. you have not proved that Momoshiki is more powerful than Kaguya. The only thing you have shown me was that he was a greater threat, which is irrelevant because there was two of them this time, not just one. Greater Threat because they are fighting two of them, but that doesn't prove they are more powerful As I proved when Kages can fight them just fine, and not get one-shotted.

Actually yes, momoshiki is more powerful then her, since kaguya has superior hax, yet momoshiki is still said to be a greater threat. Plus kaguya felt as she needed to make an army for him. Plus the kages got one shotted by momoshiki.

I just read the Manga over again, from chapter 672 The night of Moth... to 676 The infinite Dream. Nowhere did Sasuke make that Comment on Madara.

So, you are lying and making things up. No, you didn't use the Manga otherwise Cite the chapter this line was said in.

FYI Ghost Hagoromo is more powerful than Base Rinnegan Hagoromo and Hamura.

It took Hagoromo+ Hamura to Seal Kaguya in the past. Hagoromo by himself was able to give Naruto and Sasuke the Seals for Kaguya.

which proves he is more powerful than both Rinnegan Hagoromo+Byakugan Hamura combined power.

Not only that, Kaguya in the fourth ninja war is more powerful than Ancient Kaguya that Hagoromo fought.

in The 4th Ninja War, Kaguya was only missing half of the 9 tails to be complete. I.T chakra was stated to be more powerful than incomplete Juubi.

4th ninja War Kaguya>Kaguya in the past that fought Hagoromo&Hamura.

In one of your posts, you showed me a scan of sasuke saying "this is the guy the so6p was talking about.

Actually no, that makes no sense. Hagoromo having him and his brothers seals doesnt make him stronger than him and his brother, that makes 0 sense. It just means he got the seal his brother had to seal kaguya. Plus that was just rinnegan hagoromo and not Ten tails JJ hagoromo.

Wait I.T chakra is stated above the incomplete juubi? can i see these statements.

It's is Headcanon, because Shin was able to fight him and not get one shot by him.

which proves he was much weaker. you again failed to acknowledge Naruto's prior Condition before even arriving at that planet. Naruto had just got out of a battle with Momoshiki, which We can both agree Naruto didn't get healed at all after he was knocked out by a Country-level attack.

Not only was he only using half of the 9 tails he was still battle damaged from Momoshiki earlier attack.

He was operating at half power and half of the 9 tails power. when he was fighting in the 4th ninja War, he was at full power, with Half of the 9 tails power.

there is a complete difference.

Naruto never attacked shin with the intent to kill, infact he never attacked shin himself at all. He was holding back against them, sasuke even calls him too soft for it, plus just trying to protect the kids.

You're still calling that attack country level huh. Even KCM2 Pre so6p buff naruto is tanking multi continental attacks, country level ones would be a joke to him. You can call it country level, but know you're only lying to yourself.

Basically his state against juubidara and kaguya. Drained of half the nine tails cool, he's been like that up till the end of naruto shippuden. And he has super human regeneration, he wouldnt be beat up/battle damaged for that long.

Yup, so was he in the fight with momoshiki.

Yup there is, naruto has had 12+ years of training since the war arc.

LMFAO, That kick Naruto gave Momoshiki sent him flying what are you talking about? he never tanked Naruto's attack.

You can tank an attack after being sent flying by it... DCEU kryptonians, dbz characters, and 7 deadly sins characters do it casually. And before you say im going "out of verse/off topic", well even kid sasuke can tank hits when being sent flying back. You must not know what tanking is.

I said Full power Juubi is Planet level, But okay. I said Obito with the Sword of Nunoboko is planet level because he said he will destroy the planet with it.

Do you have proof that no one else made that dimension? Kaguya claimed Earth as her when people were already living on the planet long before she came. I don't see your point.

Nope, they are not planet level, that just means that Kaguya isn't that far above Madara since Naruto and Sasuke are able to fight her, and Madara.

Sure they did more against Kaguya, but still, my point remains that Kaguya and Madara powers are close the only Kaguya you can say it way above Madara is Rabbit God Kaguya. not only that it's Pretty ambiguous and arbitrary since no statement or number was given on how much more powerful she was from doing that.

Like I said 4th Ninja War Kaguya was only 2x stronger than Madara, Rabbit God Kaguya was 3x stronger than Madara. I said this because all we know is that The I.T chakra is way stronger than the Ten tails chakra.

We have Confirmation that Kaguya is the Ten tails. This was stated by Hagoromo.

Exactly, and naruto in sage mode is one shotting guys above this level(like one eyed madara, and whether you choose to accept it or not, he was one shotted by the attack, and need to absorb the god tree to keep fighting)

I have proof, no one else could've made it, and momoshiki claims it as his own, unless you can prove he didnt make it. Kaguya claiming earth as her people is way different since she never actually called it her planet.

What? Sasuke literally states kaguya is far above madara as soon as he sees her, this is before rabbit form. She has feats to back it up too, she one shots 1000 limbo level shadow clones, limbo clones being basically madara but in the limbo dimension, so she basically one shotted 1000 madaras.

2x is an insane lowball, even 10x would be a lowball, but im gonna use it for your sake. I could make an argument for her being 1000x stronger than madara, even more if we include the ETSB.

Momoshiki did that when He was Fused. You said base Momoshiki is Planet level, yet he couldn't Casually defeat the Kages in his base form, which proves he isn't planet level.

Minato is more powerful than those Kages are, so I mean so what if Madara never fought them. the fact is Minato is more powerful than they are, and Killer Bee is stated to have the second strongest chakra on the planet next to Naruto.

Killer Bee>>> the Kages.

Momoshiki had help fighting the Killer Bee, not only that The Kages knew about Momoshiki abilities, while Killer bee didn't otherwise he would have stomped him.

He is, and he could've beat the kages, he just chose to run and not fight them because he had naruto and sasuke chasing him aswell.

So you're saying killer bee is stronger than sasuke?

Momoshiki didnt use that help to fight him tho. And killer bee would've got one shotted and absorbed regardless of whether he knew it or not. Momoshiki even sees his chakra as fodder and says "is this all" implying he saw it as fodder. So killer bee had no chance.

Minato was in Sage mode you see the Sage mode eyes of his. Even then Base Minato defeated Ay and Killer Bee without even using Sage mode. Madara only used 2 attacks and knocked 3 Kages out.

LMFAO now you can't count but you are trying to debate naruto?

Minato beat the raikage, not bee, infact bee stopped minato from beating them. I think he would beat them in a 1v1. Plus he never knocked them out, they were still standing after those attacks, and momoshiki one shots kages with one blow, while it takes madara 2 to just keep them away from him.

LMFAO...Momoshiki couldn't even destroy Gaara's sand attack.

The only person Madara touched was Minato, then he kicked Minato's arm at Kakashi which took him out. he did all of this which knocked out Gaara, Minato, and Kakashi.

Momoshiki has no statements that he above them, he only has a statement that he is a greater threat which doesn't translate to power at all.

He pierced the sand, and one shots it with his hair.

They were actually still standing and were able to fight after that.

Being a greater threat does translate to power when they have greater hax than him. Plus kaguya was afraid of momoshiki and needed to make an army for him.

no, Momoshiki+Kinishiki's help defeated Killer bee. That was sage mode Minato, who is above every one of the Kages Momoshiki fought except Naruto. Momoshiki couldn't even stop Darui who is weaker than Killer Bee and Minato.

once they split Momoshiki from Kinishiki, Momoshiki ran. Like I said Killer bee had no knowledge of Momoshiki being able to absorb his attacks and do all that, if he did then he wouldn't have done all that and would have just hand to hand him which he would have stomped Momoshiki.

that was 50% Naruto using 50% of the 9 tails power since it got absorbed by Momoshiki.

LMFAO, wrong again.

Momoshiki literally casually slashes away darui's attack... what do you mean he couldnt stop him? You just making things up again? Plus that sage mode minato just got his arm taken off and all his jinjuriki chakra taken away, plus he was weakened by the reanimation jutsu.

If they went h2h bee would've just got one shotted and absorbed.

50% of the nine tails chakra, which is what he had int he war arc.

Stated That Kaguya was using massive amounts of chakra and needed to recover her chakra.

The GG on that, like I, said Kaguya was fatigued and needed to recover her chakra, Naruto was only able to do that on Fatigued Kaguya.

100% Kaguya owned Naruto.

Kaguya was stated to use chakra from transforming dimensions, except she was teleporting not transforming.

What would she be fatigued from?

Naruto is actually able to fight kaguya at the start of the match, and do decent damage to her with the punch that sent her flying, and apparently when you get sent flying you got wrecked by the punch(based off your logic not mine).

Not only that Naruto and Sasuke needed to Work together to take down Madara.

Yet sasuke alone blitzes him in half.

all they needed to do to defeat Madara was touch him with the seals. which doesn't mean they were stronger, it actually means they were weaker.

Not only that Madara less than 50% of his chakra since 1 eyed Madara=1 Limbo clone.

2 eyed Madara=4 Limbo clones.

Madara was at 1/5th of his full power while fighting Both Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara got 4-5x stronger which means he surpassed Hagoromo.

Madara casually destroys Momoshiki.

I.T Or Limbo is enough to one Shot Momoshiki.

That makes 0 sense.

Uhh naruto's shadow clones stalemated 4 limbo clons so whats your point.

Momoshiki one shots madara.

Rinnegan users are immune to I.T, and any genjutsu, and momoshiki has the rinnegan. The limbo clones are fodder to momoshiki when he tanks hits from naruto who one shots his shadow clones that are equal to the limbo clones and are fodder to naruto himself, and momoshiki overpowers full kurama avatar naruto thats way above the RBSM clones that stalemated limbo

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#485 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

1 eyed Madara with Juubi was nearly as powerful as the Sage of six paths. you can't deny that because it's stated by the Sage himself.

He then Absorbs the God Tree and gets massively stronger. So if he is around the Sages level with The Juubi, then he is equal to Hagoromo with the God Tree.

Sasuke states that god tree absorbed madara is the guy hagoromo was talking about.

The Rinnegan like the Sharingan increases the strength as well as the Dojutsu of the Eye.

You cannot disagree with the facts. Madara's Dojutsu's Capacity was increased by 5. This would scale across the board.

Clearly this isn't a 1+1 = 2 scenario.

Facts:

  • Madara could only create 1 Limbo with 1 Rinnegan.
  • Madara could create 5 Limbos with 2 Rinnegan.

1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power<Hagoromo.

God Tree 1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power=Hagoromo>1 eyed Juubi Madara.

God Tree 2 Rinnegan Juubi Madara=full power Madara 4-5x stronger than Before.

Madara's limit was actually 4 limbo clones, where'd you get that 5 limbos from?

Actually god tree absorbed madara is stated to be getting close to hagoromo, never stated equal to him.

Putting madara above hagoromo would take headcanon, then again this would be ghost hagoromo and not even ten tails JJ hagoromo.

Sasuke needed to Store more chakra to fight Madara, which means he isn't on Madara level since Madara can fight both of them non-stop with no sign of Fatigue.

Naruto and sasuke werent fatigued when fighting madara either so what's your point?

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#486 Posted by jobbers (406 posts) - - Show Bio

Yama still casually 1 shots with bankai.

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#487 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:

1 eyed Madara with Juubi was nearly as powerful as the Sage of six paths. you can't deny that because it's stated by the Sage himself.

He then Absorbs the God Tree and gets massively stronger. So if he is around the Sages level with The Juubi, then he is equal to Hagoromo with the God Tree.

Sasuke states that god tree absorbed madara is the guy hagoromo was talking about.

The Rinnegan like the Sharingan increases the strength as well as the Dojutsu of the Eye.

You cannot disagree with the facts. Madara's Dojutsu's Capacity was increased by 5. This would scale across the board.

Clearly this isn't a 1+1 = 2 scenario.

Facts:

  • Madara could only create 1 Limbo with 1 Rinnegan.
  • Madara could create 5 Limbos with 2 Rinnegan.

1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power<Hagoromo.

God Tree 1 eyed Juubi Madara=1/5th of his full power=Hagoromo>1 eyed Juubi Madara.

God Tree 2 Rinnegan Juubi Madara=full power Madara 4-5x stronger than Before.

Madara's limit was actually 4 limbo clones, where'd you get that 5 limbos from?

Actually god tree absorbed madara is stated to be getting close to hagoromo, never stated equal to him.

Putting madara above hagoromo would take headcanon, then again this would be ghost hagoromo and not even ten tails JJ hagoromo.

Sasuke needed to Store more chakra to fight Madara, which means he isn't on Madara level since Madara can fight both of them non-stop with no sign of Fatigue.

Naruto and sasuke werent fatigued when fighting madara either so what's your point?

I asked you to Cite the Chapter where Sasuke made these statements. you haven't don't that.

concession accepted on that since you can't prove that.

I posted it to you #463 Naruto and his clones Sealed the 5th one. once, Madara got his other eye ha gained 4 more Limbo clones which equal 5 in all counting the one that was sealed.

you weren't paying attention like usual. Madara has 5 limbo clones in all. it doesn't matter what doesn't make sense to you, what matter is what is factually stated.

Madara got 4x stronger after getting his both his eyes.

No, Hagoromo was talking about 1 eyed Madara before he got the God tree.

No Caption Provided

Hagoromo's statements put 1 eyed Madara with the Juubi near his level.

So, God tree Madara=equals Hagoromo.

2 eyed Madara surpasses him because he got 4x more powerful after getting both eyes.

Naruto and sasuke werent fatigued when fighting madara either so what's your point?

I never said Naruto was fatigued, I said Sasuke was because he was storing chakra. this facts because Naruto has more chakra than Sasuke has.

it still doesn't change that fact that Naruto and Sasuke both were needed to fight Madara.

Yes, Hagoromo is stronger than his base Rinnegan+Hamura power combined.

He has Both Light and Shadow Style, when before he only had Light style while his brother had Shadow Style.

After he became the Juubi his power was massively stronger than his brother.

Hamura at the end of his life only Equaled Rinnegan Hagoromo. He did that after he gained Tenseigan which is stated to equal the Rinnegan.

both Dojutsu is stated to have the power to destroy the world.

Madara Surpassed JJ Hagoromo, the Kaguya in the 4th Ninja war is stronger and more powerful than the Kaguya that Hagoromo and Hamura fought.

Not only that, Kaguya was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

I.T Chakra that was used to Make Kaguya is stated to be more powerful than the Juubi itself.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Kaguya in the Past>3 eyed Madara>>jj Hagoromo>>Base Rinnegan Hagoromo=Tenseigan Hamura.

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#488 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi:

Also, Wanted to say GG on the "Limbo=Naruto shadow clone" Argument as well.

Statements from Obito himself proves that the shadow clones are not all that powerful.

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Stated that Naruto's chakra with clones isn't enough to help. Yet Sakura's Hyakugou chakra is.

Sakura chakra>Naruto's Shadow clones chakra.

Which was exactly what I Kept telling you that Naruto splits his chakra with his clones when he makes them.

It's stated that Madara's Limbo clones are around his level. So, No Naruto's clone doesn't equal Madara's Limbo clones when Sakura has more chakra then they do.

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#489 Posted by HSTgoddess (423 posts) - - Show Bio

"hagormone"

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Online
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#490 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

Also, Wanted to say GG on the "Limbo=Naruto shadow clone" Argument as well.

Statements from Obito himself proves that the shadow clones are not all that powerful.

Then i guess madara's limbo clones arent that powerful either? Since they stalemated the limbo clones.

Stated that Naruto's chakra with clones isn't enough to help. Yet Sakura's Hyakugou chakra is.

Sakura chakra>Naruto's Shadow clones chakra.

Which was exactly what I Kept telling you that Naruto splits his chakra with his clones when he makes them.

It's stated that Madara's Limbo clones are around his level. So, No Naruto's clone doesn't equal Madara's Limbo clones when Sakura has more chakra then they do.

This doesnt debunk that the limbo clones got stalemated by naruto's shadow clones. Nothing you say can change that. If sakura is above madara's limbo then cool. Also obito didnt reply to sakura offering her chakra in that scan.

If you dont like that the shadow clones stalemated the limbos then go talk to kishimoto about it, but you cant disprove it.

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#491 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

I asked you to Cite the Chapter where Sasuke made these statements. you haven't don't that.

concession accepted on that since you can't prove that.

I posted it to you #463 Naruto and his clones Sealed the 5th one. once, Madara got his other eye ha gained 4 more Limbo clones which equal 5 in all counting the one that was sealed.

you weren't paying attention like usual. Madara has 5 limbo clones in all. it doesn't matter what doesn't make sense to you, what matter is what is factually stated.

Madara got 4x stronger after getting his both his eyes.

If not being able to prove something is conceding, then your whole argument is a concession. Anyways for the scan sasuke was talking about kaguya.

Naruto and his clones never sealed a limbo... madara's limit was 4 after the second rinnegan.

Madara actually had 4 limbo clones.

No, that scaling is wrong, madara's overall power didnt get 4x stronger, just his rinnegan ability.

Hagoromo's statements put 1 eyed Madara with the Juubi near his level.

So, God tree Madara=equals Hagoromo.

2 eyed Madara surpasses him because he got 4x more powerful after getting both eyes.

Getting near something isnt the same as being near something.

Headcanon, when pre god tree madara was only getting close to that level. Hagoromo would still be above it, Plus this is ghost hagoromo.

His rinnegan abilities/capabilities increased by 4x, not his overall strength.

I never said Naruto was fatigued, I said Sasuke was because he was storing chakra. this facts because Naruto has more chakra than Sasuke has.

it still doesn't change that fact that Naruto and Sasuke both were needed to fight Madara.

Yes, Hagoromo is stronger than his base Rinnegan+Hamura power combined.

He has Both Light and Shadow Style, when before he only had Light style while his brother had Shadow Style.

After he became the Juubi his power was massively stronger than his brother.

Hamura at the end of his life only Equaled Rinnegan Hagoromo. He did that after he gained Tenseigan which is stated to equal the Rinnegan.

both Dojutsu is stated to have the power to destroy the world.

Madara Surpassed JJ Hagoromo, the Kaguya in the 4th Ninja war is stronger and more powerful than the Kaguya that Hagoromo and Hamura fought.

Not only that, Kaguya was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

I.T Chakra that was used to Make Kaguya is stated to be more powerful than the Juubi itself.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Kaguya in the Past>3 eyed Madara>>jj Hagoromo>>Base Rinnegan Hagoromo=Tenseigan Hamura.

Sasuke wasnt fatigued...

Naruto and sasuke weren't both "needed", they were just there and he was their enemy. I've already proved how naruto is above him, and current sasuke scales to a stronger naruto than the one that's above madara.

How? That literally makes no sense.

Him having mastered both chakra natures doesnt prove hes stronger than him and his brother, again makes no sense.

I dont disagree, but ghost form hagoromo no longer has the juubi.

When was the I.T chakra stated above the juubi? I've been asking you for the scan for the last few posts now, yet you failed to show it, so this point will no longer be valid till you can show the scan.

The rinnegan being stated to be able to destroy the world means nothing, unless you're trying to say Pain is a planet buster.

You still havent proved how madara is above ten tails JJ hagoromo, a wanked madara would only be above the ghost form hagoromo.

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#492 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@jobbers said:

Yama still casually 1 shots with bankai.

How? His best feat with it is like planet level at best. While kaguya bathes in her ETSB that was gonna destroy a star-solar system level dimension. Even a lowballed version of the dimension would be planet level when lowballed.

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#493 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

I asked you to Cite the Chapter where Sasuke made these statements. you haven't don't that.

concession accepted on that since you can't prove that.

I posted it to you #463 Naruto and his clones Sealed the 5th one. once, Madara got his other eye ha gained 4 more Limbo clones which equal 5 in all counting the one that was sealed.

you weren't paying attention like usual. Madara has 5 limbo clones in all. it doesn't matter what doesn't make sense to you, what matter is what is factually stated.

Madara got 4x stronger after getting his both his eyes.

If not being able to prove something is conceding, then your whole argument is a concession. Anyways for the scan sasuke was talking about kaguya.

Naruto and his clones never sealed a limbo... madara's limit was 4 after the second rinnegan.

Madara actually had 4 limbo clones.

No, that scaling is wrong, madara's overall power didnt get 4x stronger, just his rinnegan ability.

Hagoromo's statements put 1 eyed Madara with the Juubi near his level.

So, God tree Madara=equals Hagoromo.

2 eyed Madara surpasses him because he got 4x more powerful after getting both eyes.

Getting near something isnt the same as being near something.

Headcanon, when pre god tree madara was only getting close to that level. Hagoromo would still be above it, Plus this is ghost hagoromo.

His rinnegan abilities/capabilities increased by 4x, not his overall strength.

I never said Naruto was fatigued, I said Sasuke was because he was storing chakra. this facts because Naruto has more chakra than Sasuke has.

it still doesn't change that fact that Naruto and Sasuke both were needed to fight Madara.

Yes, Hagoromo is stronger than his base Rinnegan+Hamura power combined.

He has Both Light and Shadow Style, when before he only had Light style while his brother had Shadow Style.

After he became the Juubi his power was massively stronger than his brother.

Hamura at the end of his life only Equaled Rinnegan Hagoromo. He did that after he gained Tenseigan which is stated to equal the Rinnegan.

both Dojutsu is stated to have the power to destroy the world.

Madara Surpassed JJ Hagoromo, the Kaguya in the 4th Ninja war is stronger and more powerful than the Kaguya that Hagoromo and Hamura fought.

Not only that, Kaguya was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

I.T Chakra that was used to Make Kaguya is stated to be more powerful than the Juubi itself.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Kaguya in the Past>3 eyed Madara>>jj Hagoromo>>Base Rinnegan Hagoromo=Tenseigan Hamura.

Sasuke wasnt fatigued...

Naruto and sasuke weren't both "needed", they were just there and he was their enemy. I've already proved how naruto is above him, and current sasuke scales to a stronger naruto than the one that's above madara.

How? That literally makes no sense.

Him having mastered both chakra natures doesnt prove hes stronger than him and his brother, again makes no sense.

I dont disagree, but ghost form hagoromo no longer has the juubi.

When was the I.T chakra stated above the juubi? I've been asking you for the scan for the last few posts now, yet you failed to show it, so this point will no longer be valid till you can show the scan.

The rinnegan being stated to be able to destroy the world means nothing, unless you're trying to say Pain is a planet buster.

You still havent proved how madara is above ten tails JJ hagoromo, a wanked madara would only be above the ghost form hagoromo.

I proved all of my claims. You haven't yet proved anything.

Naruto sealed that other Limbo clones with the TSB Rods.

No Caption Provided

Then Madara created 4 more. so in all, he had 5.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

one limbo Strike is enough to send Naruto and Sasuke flying back with a single punch.

That clearly shows they are above the Real Versions of Naruto and Sasuke if one punch sends them flying.

No Caption Provided

has, 5 limbo clones in all the 4 you see next to him and the one that Naruto and his clone sealed.

Also, After Look in another thread, someone Showed me from another site that Adult Naruto at full power using TBB is planet level. which Means You lost in here. You whole Argument was that Momoshiki was planet level...which isn't possible since we both agreed that Momoshiki is weaker than Full power Naruto.

While Madara is above Hagoromo who is planet level. Not only that, him spreading the Shinjuu Roots across the planet is planet level.

Getting near something isnt the same as being near something.

Headcanon, when pre god tree madara was only getting close to that level. Hagoromo would still be above it, Plus this is ghost hagoromo.

His rinnegan abilities/capabilities increased by 4x, not his overall strength.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Again if there was no comparison Kishimoto wouldn't have made Hago say that statement in the first place.

Juubi Madara is comparable to Hagoromo.

If we go by your fanfic logic, then Sharingan doesn't increase your power or strength when we know that is false logic.

Nope, Tobirama already stated that Sharingan increases Both physical Strength and Visual prowess. Rinnegan is the upgraded version of the Sharingan. it's been stated both eyes are needed to show the eyes full power and potential.

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taps into her Heart, Rapidly increasing his or her Strength..Alone with the power of their hate.

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stated by Madara only with both eyes can Sharingan's true power be unleashed.

No Caption Provided

Stated Eyes show their True power when both of them are Together.

Madara got 4x stronger after getting both of his eyes.

So, if Madara with Juubi is comparable to Hagoromo then God tree Absorbed Madara+Double Rinnegan surpasses him since he got 4x stronger and more powerful.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Obito even those he was no longer had Six path Chakra still was enough to put Kakashi powerful enough to attack Kaguya.

Hagoromo still has the Juubi Chakra, otherwise, he wouldn't have the Truth-Seeking balls. 4th ninja war Hagoromo is more powerful than Base Rinnegan Hagoromo+Hamura Combined. because he did a feat which required both him and his brother by his self.

Clearly proving that he is more powerful than he was back then.

Sasuke wasnt fatigued...

Naruto and sasuke weren't both "needed", they were just there and he was their enemy. I've already proved how naruto is above him, and current sasuke scales to a stronger naruto than the one that's above madara.

How? That literally makes no sense.

Him having mastered both chakra natures doesnt prove hes stronger than him and his brother, again makes no sense.

I dont disagree, but ghost form hagoromo no longer has the juubi.

When was the I.T chakra stated above the juubi? I've been asking you for the scan for the last few posts now, yet you failed to show it, so this point will no longer be valid till you can show the scan.

The rinnegan being stated to be able to destroy the world means nothing, unless you're trying to say Pain is a planet buster.

You still havent proved how madara is above ten tails JJ hagoromo, a wanked madara would only be above the ghost form hagoromo.

Yes, both of them was needed.

Naruto Stated that both of them was going to defeat Madara. Hagoromo was considered about 1 eyed Madara.

they couldn't beat Madara by themselves as shown, they needed to seal him to defeat him.

He stills Has Chakra from the Juubi, as he still has 9 Truth-seeking balls.

No Caption Provided

As you see from Hagoromo own memory of the fight of Kaguya, he only had truth Seeking Staff along with his bother.

No Caption Provided

He is far more powerful than he and his brother was back then.

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Stated the I.T Chakra is more than the Juubi.

Juubi Was only missing 50% of the 9 tails chakra. Modern Kaguya>Kaguya in the past that fought Hagoromo&hamura.

It doesn't matter what you say because Facts and canon>>>>>>your fanfic.

Even if you want to accept that 100% Naruto at full power is planet level, Momoshiki isn't because he is weaker than 50% Naruto and you said 100% Naruto is more powerful than Momoshiki, therefore, he can't be Planet level.

Madara scales above Hagoromo who is planet level.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Ancient Kaguya 1000 years ago>3 eyed Madara>>Hagoromo=Planet level=Full power Kamura TBB Adult Naruto>50%Adult Naruto>>Momoshiki.

People are saying that Naruto bit about him being able to destroy the earth is a mistranslation.

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#494 Edited by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:

I proved all of my claims. You haven't yet proved anything.

Naruto sealed that other Limbo clones with the TSB Rods.

You proved nothing. I could make a list of what you didnt prove.

Then Madara created 4 more. so in all, he had 5.

That limbo returned to his body, then he made 4.

one limbo Strike is enough to send Naruto and Sasuke flying back with a single punch.

That clearly shows they are above the Real Versions of Naruto and Sasuke if one punch sends them flying.

How does sending someone in the air you're flying prove you're above them. And going by this logic naruto sent kaguya flying back, therefore by your logic: Naruto>kaguya>>>>madara.

Also naruto's shadow clones that are fodder to him can stalemate the limbos. So your whole argument about the limbos falls apart from that fact alone, whether you accept it or not: the limbo clones=naruto's shadow clones, and i wont be repeating myself till you can prove otherwise without calling "inconsistency" or "bs" or whatever.

has, 5 limbo clones in all the 4 you see next to him and the one that Naruto and his clone sealed.

Also, After Look in another thread, someone Showed me from another site that Adult Naruto at full power using TBB is planet level. which Means You lost in here. You whole Argument was that Momoshiki was planet level...which isn't possible since we both agreed that Momoshiki is weaker than Full power Naruto.

While Madara is above Hagoromo who is planet level. Not only that, him spreading the Shinjuu Roots across the planet is planet level.

His limit is 4 limbo clones.

It's far above it actually. Since naruto can rip off limbs and destroy kaguya's body who can bathe in her ETSB thats solar system level. So yes, naruto scales to kaguya's ETSB, thats far above anything

How is him spreading some random roots make him planet level? Just gives him planet level range i suppose. Also hagoromo isnt planet level. Moon level AT BEST.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Again if there was no comparison Kishimoto wouldn't have made Hago say that statement in the first place.

Juubi Madara is comparable to Hagoromo.

If we go by your fanfic logic, then Sharingan doesn't increase your power or strength when we know that is false logic.

Nope, Tobirama already stated that Sharingan increases Both physical Strength and Visual prowess. Rinnegan is the upgraded version of the Sharingan. it's been stated both eyes are needed to show the eyes full power and potential.

The comparison is that he was getting near hagoromo.

Not at all, just getting near him.

When did i say that?

Madara got 4x stronger after getting both of his eyes.

So, if Madara with Juubi is comparable to Hagoromo then God tree Absorbed Madara+Double Rinnegan surpasses him since he got 4x stronger and more powerful.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Obito even those he was no longer had Six path Chakra still was enough to put Kakashi powerful enough to attack Kaguya.

Hagoromo still has the Juubi Chakra, otherwise, he wouldn't have the Truth-Seeking balls. 4th ninja war Hagoromo is more powerful than Base Rinnegan Hagoromo+Hamura Combined. because he did a feat which required both him and his brother by his self.

Clearly proving that he is more powerful than he was back then.

His rinnegan abilities increased by 4x. Madara himself would be about 2x stronger.

Headcanon when hes far weaker than kaguya yet hagoromo is comparable to her

I know.

Why would he have juubi chakra? Hagoromo just has them.

Hagoromo literally did no feats in the war arc.

How?

Yes, both of them was needed.

Naruto Stated that both of them was going to defeat Madara. Hagoromo was considered about 1 eyed Madara.

they couldn't beat Madara by themselves as shown, they needed to seal him to defeat him.

He stills Has Chakra from the Juubi, as he still has 9 Truth-seeking balls.

He never did. And you mean that same madara that got one shotted by sage mode naruto?

They could've, naruto rips him in half GG. Naruto does the rasenshurikens he did on kaguya GG.

Theres literally no way he has juubi chakra since he split it all into the 9 tail beasts.

Stated the I.T Chakra is more than the Juubi.

Juubi Was only missing 50% of the 9 tails chakra. Modern Kaguya>Kaguya in the past that fought Hagoromo&hamura.

It doesn't matter what you say because Facts and canon>>>>>>your fanfic.

Even if you want to accept that 100% Naruto at full power is planet level, Momoshiki isn't because he is weaker than 50% Naruto and you said 100% Naruto is more powerful than Momoshiki, therefore, he can't be Planet level.

Madara scales above Hagoromo who is planet level.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Ancient Kaguya 1000 years ago>3 eyed Madara>>Hagoromo=Planet level=Full power Kamura TBB Adult Naruto>50%Adult Naruto>>Momoshiki.

People are saying that Naruto bit about him being able to destroy the earth is a mistranslation.

Naruto was referring to kaguya being revived not the I.T chakra.

Uhh cool.

You mean the headcanon you've used this whole debate? Or simply ignoring the facts brought up to you.

50% Naruto(which would be the one in the war) would be solar system level, since he rips off kaguya's limbs and destroyed nearly her whole body with the rasenshurikens, same kaguya who can bathe in a solar system level ETSB. Even if he was only planet level then madara(who is far weaker than him) wouldnt be planet level, nor would kaguya be with the ETSB, which we know isnt true. Tho i dont see any planet level feats for madara.

Hagoromo isnt planet level and madara doesnt scale to prime ten tails JJ hagoromo that is the closest to planet level.

Simply because naruto is lowballed on this site.

Avatar image for mygod000
#495 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:

I proved all of my claims. You haven't yet proved anything.

Naruto sealed that other Limbo clones with the TSB Rods.

You proved nothing. I could make a list of what you didnt prove.

Then Madara created 4 more. so in all, he had 5.

That limbo returned to his body, then he made 4.

one limbo Strike is enough to send Naruto and Sasuke flying back with a single punch.

That clearly shows they are above the Real Versions of Naruto and Sasuke if one punch sends them flying.

How does sending someone in the air you're flying prove you're above them. And going by this logic naruto sent kaguya flying back, therefore by your logic: Naruto>kaguya>>>>madara.

Also naruto's shadow clones that are fodder to him can stalemate the limbos. So your whole argument about the limbos falls apart from that fact alone, whether you accept it or not: the limbo clones=naruto's shadow clones, and i wont be repeating myself till you can prove otherwise without calling "inconsistency" or "bs" or whatever.

has, 5 limbo clones in all the 4 you see next to him and the one that Naruto and his clone sealed.

Also, After Look in another thread, someone Showed me from another site that Adult Naruto at full power using TBB is planet level. which Means You lost in here. You whole Argument was that Momoshiki was planet level...which isn't possible since we both agreed that Momoshiki is weaker than Full power Naruto.

While Madara is above Hagoromo who is planet level. Not only that, him spreading the Shinjuu Roots across the planet is planet level.

His limit is 4 limbo clones.

It's far above it actually. Since naruto can rip off limbs and destroy kaguya's body who can bathe in her ETSB thats solar system level. So yes, naruto scales to kaguya's ETSB, thats far above anything

How is him spreading some random roots make him planet level? Just gives him planet level range i suppose. Also hagoromo isnt planet level. Moon level AT BEST.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Again if there was no comparison Kishimoto wouldn't have made Hago say that statement in the first place.

Juubi Madara is comparable to Hagoromo.

If we go by your fanfic logic, then Sharingan doesn't increase your power or strength when we know that is false logic.

Nope, Tobirama already stated that Sharingan increases Both physical Strength and Visual prowess. Rinnegan is the upgraded version of the Sharingan. it's been stated both eyes are needed to show the eyes full power and potential.

The comparison is that he was getting near hagoromo.

Not at all, just getting near him.

When did i say that?

Madara got 4x stronger after getting both of his eyes.

So, if Madara with Juubi is comparable to Hagoromo then God tree Absorbed Madara+Double Rinnegan surpasses him since he got 4x stronger and more powerful.

Nope, it doesn't work like that. Obito even those he was no longer had Six path Chakra still was enough to put Kakashi powerful enough to attack Kaguya.

Hagoromo still has the Juubi Chakra, otherwise, he wouldn't have the Truth-Seeking balls. 4th ninja war Hagoromo is more powerful than Base Rinnegan Hagoromo+Hamura Combined. because he did a feat which required both him and his brother by his self.

Clearly proving that he is more powerful than he was back then.

His rinnegan abilities increased by 4x. Madara himself would be about 2x stronger.

Headcanon when hes far weaker than kaguya yet hagoromo is comparable to her

I know.

Why would he have juubi chakra? Hagoromo just has them.

Hagoromo literally did no feats in the war arc.

How?

Yes, both of them was needed.

Naruto Stated that both of them was going to defeat Madara. Hagoromo was considered about 1 eyed Madara.

they couldn't beat Madara by themselves as shown, they needed to seal him to defeat him.

He stills Has Chakra from the Juubi, as he still has 9 Truth-seeking balls.

He never did. And you mean that same madara that got one shotted by sage mode naruto?

They could've, naruto rips him in half GG. Naruto does the rasenshurikens he did on kaguya GG.

Theres literally no way he has juubi chakra since he split it all into the 9 tail beasts.

Stated the I.T Chakra is more than the Juubi.

Juubi Was only missing 50% of the 9 tails chakra. Modern Kaguya>Kaguya in the past that fought Hagoromo&hamura.

It doesn't matter what you say because Facts and canon>>>>>>your fanfic.

Even if you want to accept that 100% Naruto at full power is planet level, Momoshiki isn't because he is weaker than 50% Naruto and you said 100% Naruto is more powerful than Momoshiki, therefore, he can't be Planet level.

Madara scales above Hagoromo who is planet level.

4th Ninja War Kaguya>Ancient Kaguya 1000 years ago>3 eyed Madara>>Hagoromo=Planet level=Full power Kamura TBB Adult Naruto>50%Adult Naruto>>Momoshiki.

People are saying that Naruto bit about him being able to destroy the earth is a mistranslation.

Naruto was referring to kaguya being revived not the I.T chakra.

Uhh cool.

You mean the headcanon you've used this whole debate? Or simply ignoring the facts brought up to you.

50% Naruto(which would be the one in the war) would be solar system level, since he rips off kaguya's limbs and destroyed nearly her whole body with the rasenshurikens, same kaguya who can bathe in a solar system level ETSB. Even if he was only planet level then madara(who is far weaker than him) wouldnt be planet level, nor would kaguya be with the ETSB, which we know isnt true. Tho i dont see any planet level feats for madara.

Hagoromo isnt planet level and madara doesnt scale to prime ten tails JJ hagoromo that is the closest to planet level.

Simply because naruto is lowballed on this site.

Nope, the Limbo clone was sealed as I proved already.

Also, your concept of the Shadow clones makes No sense at all. If Naruto's Clones were defeated by I.T then They would just be Trapped in the Dream like Everyone else, and have their chakra drained for the rest of their lives. Like I said they were not Trapped in the Dream, otherwise, they would have been stated. They were defeated by Madara's Limbo.

it proves they are greater because 1 punch had enough force to send them flying backward.

If someone punched you and that one punch sent you back flying it means they are greatly stronger than you are.

Nope, it 5. as I said the 5th one was sealed by Naruto. Kaguya was casually destroying Naruto.

No Caption Provided

just one Good punch destroyed Sasuke's PS. Naruto couldn't even do that to Sasuke while in his Kamura Avatar Mode.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>naruto.

Nope Madara got 4x stronger.

I already proved that Hagoromo stated that Kaguya was stronger than him since he himself stated that she was more powerful than anyone.

Spreading the roots around the World Makes you planet level buddy. If just anyone can do it then why didn't they? Why didn't Hashirama spread his Deep forest Jutsu around the world? Because you can't he doesn't have the chakra to do so. you need planet+ level chakra to do this.

No Caption Provided

Kaguya in the past>JJ Hagoromo.

No Caption Provided

Naruto stated The I.T is greater than the Juubi, and Madara was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

Kaguya in the past was The Juubi.

From the last Hagoromo states this about the Ten tails.

"Creating “ninshuu” after that, Hagoromo, who had become the Rikudou Sennin, became the ancestor of Earth’s shinobi. Hagoromo regarded the Juubi sealed in his abdomen as dangerous. That immeasurable power might bring catastrophe to the world. Creating the nine bijuu, he divided the Juubi’s chakra into nine and bestowed it upon the bijuu, attempting to disperse its power."

JJ Hagoromo>>Juubi powers>RinneganHagoromo>>>Hamura.

LMFAO, you didn't watch the War arc then. Hagoromo casually brought back the Previous Kages without even waving hand signs. Again he gave Naruto and Sasuke the Power to fight Madara.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Gave them his powers.

just because you die doesn't mean you lose your powers. Obito died and he still had Six paths power and gave it to Kakashi even those he lost that power.

Nope, they were referring the I.T chakra, Sasuke in the Upper Corner talks about the chakra Madara gained from I.T and Naruto said the Chakra was beyond the Ten tails.

so...again, like I said Naruto isn't planet level even if he was which he isn't because it's a mistranslation...it means Momoshiki isn't because Naruto at full power is above Momoshiki.

Kaguya>>Madara>>Hagoromo>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara is more powerful than Hagoromo.

Momoshiki has no planet level feats.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#496 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope, the Limbo clone was sealed as I proved already.

Also, your concept of the Shadow clones makes No sense at all. If Naruto's Clones were defeated by I.T then They would just be Trapped in the Dream like Everyone else, and have their chakra drained for the rest of their lives. Like I said they were not Trapped in the Dream, otherwise, they would have been stated. They were defeated by Madara's Limbo.

it proves they are greater because 1 punch had enough force to send them flying backward.

If someone punched you and that one punch sent you back flying it means they are greatly stronger than you are.

Nope, it 5. as I said the 5th one was sealed by Naruto. Kaguya was casually destroying Naruto.

Then it returned to madara.

They would pop from being caught in the I.T, they stalemated the limbo clones.

Sending a guy in the air flying isnt a good feat, let alone does it suggest you're above them, by this logic, naruto would be above kaguya.

It doesnt. Zod can send superman flying with a single punch but in the end zod got wrecked. Plus naruto can send kaguya flying with a single punch, so i guess naruto is far above kaguya?

Then returned to madara, and he made 4. Naruto is destroying kaguya's body.

just one Good punch destroyed Sasuke's PS. Naruto couldn't even do that to Sasuke while in his Kamura Avatar Mode.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>naruto.

Nope Madara got 4x stronger.

I already proved that Hagoromo stated that Kaguya was stronger than him since he himself stated that she was more powerful than anyone.

Spreading the roots around the World Makes you planet level buddy. If just anyone can do it then why didn't they? Why didn't Hashirama spread his Deep forest Jutsu around the world? Because you can't he doesn't have the chakra to do so. you need planet+ level chakra to do this.

Naruto was holding back.

By the "sending people flying=you're automatically stronger than them" logic that you use

Naruto>>>>>>kaguya>>>>>madara

Well sure, kaguya is stronger than ghost form hagoromo.

Why WOULD hashirama spread his roots around the world? Being able to spread something around the world doesnt mean you can destroy a planet, makes no sense.

Naruto stated The I.T is greater than the Juubi, and Madara was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

Kaguya in the past was The Juubi.

From the last Hagoromo states this about the Ten tails.

"Creating “ninshuu” after that, Hagoromo, who had become the Rikudou Sennin, became the ancestor of Earth’s shinobi. Hagoromo regarded the Juubi sealed in his abdomen as dangerous. That immeasurable power might bring catastrophe to the world. Creating the nine bijuu, he divided the Juubi’s chakra into nine and bestowed it upon the bijuu, attempting to disperse its power."

JJ Hagoromo>>Juubi powers>RinneganHagoromo>>>Hamura.

LMFAO, you didn't watch the War arc then. Hagoromo casually brought back the Previous Kages without even waving hand signs. Again he gave Naruto and Sasuke the Power to fight Madara.

He was referring to kaguya being revived.

Yeah i know he gave naruto and sasuke power.

Gave them his powers.

just because you die doesn't mean you lose your powers. Obito died and he still had Six paths power and gave it to Kakashi even those he lost that power.

Nope, they were referring the I.T chakra, Sasuke in the Upper Corner talks about the chakra Madara gained from I.T and Naruto said the Chakra was beyond the Ten tails.

so...again, like I said Naruto isn't planet level even if he was which he isn't because it's a mistranslation...it means Momoshiki isn't because Naruto at full power is above Momoshiki.

Kaguya>>Madara>>Hagoromo>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara is more powerful than Hagoromo.

Momoshiki has no planet level feats.

He didnt keep the ten tails tho, he split it into the 9 bijuu.

Can you prove it's a mistranslation? Also naruto rips off kaguya's limbs who can bathe in her solar system level ETSB. So naruto scales to it. You ignore this too, since you have no way to debunk it.

I mean by outright feats no one in naruto is planet level, you gotta use scaling and statements buddy, not headcanon.

Avatar image for mygod000
#497 Posted by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:

Nope, the Limbo clone was sealed as I proved already.

Also, your concept of the Shadow clones makes No sense at all. If Naruto's Clones were defeated by I.T then They would just be Trapped in the Dream like Everyone else, and have their chakra drained for the rest of their lives. Like I said they were not Trapped in the Dream, otherwise, they would have been stated. They were defeated by Madara's Limbo.

it proves they are greater because 1 punch had enough force to send them flying backward.

If someone punched you and that one punch sent you back flying it means they are greatly stronger than you are.

Nope, it 5. as I said the 5th one was sealed by Naruto. Kaguya was casually destroying Naruto.

Then it returned to madara.

They would pop from being caught in the I.T, they stalemated the limbo clones.

Sending a guy in the air flying isnt a good feat, let alone does it suggest you're above them, by this logic, naruto would be above kaguya.

It doesnt. Zod can send superman flying with a single punch but in the end zod got wrecked. Plus naruto can send kaguya flying with a single punch, so i guess naruto is far above kaguya?

Then returned to madara, and he made 4. Naruto is destroying kaguya's body.

just one Good punch destroyed Sasuke's PS. Naruto couldn't even do that to Sasuke while in his Kamura Avatar Mode.

Kaguya>Madara>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>naruto.

Nope Madara got 4x stronger.

I already proved that Hagoromo stated that Kaguya was stronger than him since he himself stated that she was more powerful than anyone.

Spreading the roots around the World Makes you planet level buddy. If just anyone can do it then why didn't they? Why didn't Hashirama spread his Deep forest Jutsu around the world? Because you can't he doesn't have the chakra to do so. you need planet+ level chakra to do this.

Naruto was holding back.

By the "sending people flying=you're automatically stronger than them" logic that you use

Naruto>>>>>>kaguya>>>>>madara

Well sure, kaguya is stronger than ghost form hagoromo.

Why WOULD hashirama spread his roots around the world? Being able to spread something around the world doesnt mean you can destroy a planet, makes no sense.

Naruto stated The I.T is greater than the Juubi, and Madara was only missing 50% of the 9 tails.

Kaguya in the past was The Juubi.

From the last Hagoromo states this about the Ten tails.

"Creating “ninshuu” after that, Hagoromo, who had become the Rikudou Sennin, became the ancestor of Earth’s shinobi. Hagoromo regarded the Juubi sealed in his abdomen as dangerous. That immeasurable power might bring catastrophe to the world. Creating the nine bijuu, he divided the Juubi’s chakra into nine and bestowed it upon the bijuu, attempting to disperse its power."

JJ Hagoromo>>Juubi powers>RinneganHagoromo>>>Hamura.

LMFAO, you didn't watch the War arc then. Hagoromo casually brought back the Previous Kages without even waving hand signs. Again he gave Naruto and Sasuke the Power to fight Madara.

He was referring to kaguya being revived.

Yeah i know he gave naruto and sasuke power.

Gave them his powers.

just because you die doesn't mean you lose your powers. Obito died and he still had Six paths power and gave it to Kakashi even those he lost that power.

Nope, they were referring the I.T chakra, Sasuke in the Upper Corner talks about the chakra Madara gained from I.T and Naruto said the Chakra was beyond the Ten tails.

so...again, like I said Naruto isn't planet level even if he was which he isn't because it's a mistranslation...it means Momoshiki isn't because Naruto at full power is above Momoshiki.

Kaguya>>Madara>>Hagoromo>>>Naruto and Sasuke.

Madara is more powerful than Hagoromo.

Momoshiki has no planet level feats.

He didnt keep the ten tails tho, he split it into the 9 bijuu.

Can you prove it's a mistranslation? Also naruto rips off kaguya's limbs who can bathe in her solar system level ETSB. So naruto scales to it. You ignore this too, since you have no way to debunk it.

I mean by outright feats no one in naruto is planet level, you gotta use scaling and statements buddy, not headcanon.

Kaguya was caught off Guard. Naruto and Sasuke were on guard and still got knocked back.

you ignore the fact that Limbo can Tank TSB which erases you. Naruto isn't Zod, Nor is Madara. Naruto was getting knocked out by Kaguya I can send the scans of Kaguya soloing Naruto's clones with easy while naruto was theirs. Her power was weakened when Naruto Rip her arms off, Madara can do the same thing to Kaguya if she was spamming all those chakra attacks.

We Saw 1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

3 eyed Madara>2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&sasuke.

Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to fight Madara. Before that Madara without the Juubi Solo and killed Naruto and Sasuke the same Naruto and Sasuke that defeated Juubi Obito.

Nope, Kaguya wasn't even revived then. The first thing Naruto was thinking about was Hagoromo words about Madara surpassing him.

so, the full Ten tails rival Hagoromo powers.

it's a Mistranslation because of the Kajin.

in the scan, It says Daichi which translates to earth as in Ground.

No Caption Provided

Nope, Kaguya can destroy her dimension which is star level.

Madara has planet level+ powers easily because he is above Hagoromo. by Scaling he is above Hagoromo as well since he can tank Naruto and Sasuke's Attack at the same time powers Given to them by Hagoromo.

Adult Naruto isn't above Hagoromo, there For he isn't planet level.

I already prove Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya, a Greater threat doesn't=More power.

Kages can fight Momoshiki.

Shikamaru can stop Momoshiki.

Avatar image for mattyboi
#499 Posted by MattyBoi (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:

Kaguya was caught off Guard. Naruto and Sasuke were on guard and still got knocked back.

you ignore the fact that Limbo can Tank TSB which erases you. Naruto isn't Zod, Nor is Madara. Naruto was getting knocked out by Kaguya I can send the scans of Kaguya soloing Naruto's clones with easy while naruto was theirs. Her power was weakened when Naruto Rip her arms off, Madara can do the same thing to Kaguya if she was spamming all those chakra attacks.

No... naruto literally punched her, they were in the air when they got hit back.

Naruto can kick away a TSB aswell. Never said they were zod, just giving an example of when knocking someone back doesnt mean you're above them. Naruto was literally concious the whole fight, dont think you know what being knocked out means. Naruto's clones are fodder to him, he can literally one shot his clones. Plus those clones were limbo level ones. Kaguya wasnt weakened at all. And madara cant do the same thing

We Saw 1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

3 eyed Madara>2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&sasuke.

Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to fight Madara. Before that Madara without the Juubi Solo and killed Naruto and Sasuke the same Naruto and Sasuke that defeated Juubi Obito.

Nope, Kaguya wasn't even revived then. The first thing Naruto was thinking about was Hagoromo words about Madara surpassing him.

so, the full Ten tails rival Hagoromo powers.

it's a Mistranslation because of the Kajin.

in the scan, It says Daichi which translates to earth as in Ground.

The hell? 1 eyed madara got blitzed in half by sasuke..

2 eyed madara literally has the third eye from the god tree..

Your point? Also naruto and sasuke talk no jutsu'd obito to beat em.

How? Half of hagoromo's powers amp'd up naruto to the point where he could one shot juubidara while only using sage mode.

It literally says earth, as in the planet. Then again why would you think naruto is just ground level?

Nope, Kaguya can destroy her dimension which is star level.

Madara has planet level+ powers easily because he is above Hagoromo. by Scaling he is above Hagoromo as well since he can tank Naruto and Sasuke's Attack at the same time powers Given to them by Hagoromo.

Adult Naruto isn't above Hagoromo, there For he isn't planet level.

I already prove Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya, a Greater threat doesn't=More power.

Kages can fight Momoshiki.

Shikamaru can stop Momoshiki.

Yep, and she bathes in that attack, yet naruto can destroy her body.

Except hagoromo isnt planet level.

He is, he was able to destroy kaguya's body that could bathe in the ETSB with 0 damage. Plus hagoromo isnt planet level.

Yes it does, when kaguya has better hax than momoshiki.

Kages got one shotted you mean.

Shikamaru can surprise momoshiki you mean.

Avatar image for mygod000
#500 Edited by MyGod000 (1157 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattyboi said:
@mygod000 said:
@mattyboi said:

Kaguya was caught off Guard. Naruto and Sasuke were on guard and still got knocked back.

you ignore the fact that Limbo can Tank TSB which erases you. Naruto isn't Zod, Nor is Madara. Naruto was getting knocked out by Kaguya I can send the scans of Kaguya soloing Naruto's clones with easy while naruto was theirs. Her power was weakened when Naruto Rip her arms off, Madara can do the same thing to Kaguya if she was spamming all those chakra attacks.

No... naruto literally punched her, they were in the air when they got hit back.

Naruto can kick away a TSB aswell. Never said they were zod, just giving an example of when knocking someone back doesnt mean you're above them. Naruto was literally concious the whole fight, dont think you know what being knocked out means. Naruto's clones are fodder to him, he can literally one shot his clones. Plus those clones were limbo level ones. Kaguya wasnt weakened at all. And madara cant do the same thing

We Saw 1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&Sasuke.

3 eyed Madara>2 eyed Madara 4x Stronger>1 eyed Madara>Naruto&sasuke.

Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke the power to fight Madara. Before that Madara without the Juubi Solo and killed Naruto and Sasuke the same Naruto and Sasuke that defeated Juubi Obito.

Nope, Kaguya wasn't even revived then. The first thing Naruto was thinking about was Hagoromo words about Madara surpassing him.

so, the full Ten tails rival Hagoromo powers.

it's a Mistranslation because of the Kajin.

in the scan, It says Daichi which translates to earth as in Ground.

The hell? 1 eyed madara got blitzed in half by sasuke..

2 eyed madara literally has the third eye from the god tree..

Your point? Also naruto and sasuke talk no jutsu'd obito to beat em.

How? Half of hagoromo's powers amp'd up naruto to the point where he could one shot juubidara while only using sage mode.

It literally says earth, as in the planet. Then again why would you think naruto is just ground level?

Nope, Kaguya can destroy her dimension which is star level.

Madara has planet level+ powers easily because he is above Hagoromo. by Scaling he is above Hagoromo as well since he can tank Naruto and Sasuke's Attack at the same time powers Given to them by Hagoromo.

Adult Naruto isn't above Hagoromo, there For he isn't planet level.

I already prove Momoshiki isn't above Kaguya, a Greater threat doesn't=More power.

Kages can fight Momoshiki.

Shikamaru can stop Momoshiki.

Yep, and she bathes in that attack, yet naruto can destroy her body.

Except hagoromo isnt planet level.

He is, he was able to destroy kaguya's body that could bathe in the ETSB with 0 damage. Plus hagoromo isnt planet level.

Yes it does, when kaguya has better hax than momoshiki.

Kages got one shotted you mean.

Shikamaru can surprise momoshiki you mean.

Your examples are bad ones.

yes, Naruto got one punched by the Limbo clones. not only that Naruto's shadow Clones got wrecked by the Limbo clones.

If they were Genjutsu by I.T they would still be standing there like everyone else was when they got hit by the Genjutsu then their chakra would have been absorbed for Kaguya to use. since it stated that while in I.T She can use all of the victim's Abilities. in other words, she should have been able to make clones of herself as well, and known about Naruto's "sexy" Jutsu that stuns her.

yes, The shadow clones got beat.

Madara let Sasuke do that since Cutting him in half did nothing in the first place.

He didn't have the 3 eyed Active then. Kakashi has his Sharingan on at all times, but you are not saying Kakashi with Sharingan equals Kakashi with Headband over his eyes are?

When Kakashi lifts the Headband he is more powerful than he is with it covered.

so, they still beat him, and Madara killed them after that. 1 eyed Madara no Juubi>>BSM Naruto>>EMS Sasuke.

he casually dodged Sasuke while Blind.

Okay, that was weakened 1 eyed Madara who was recovering from his fight with Guy.

Then after absorbing the God Tree, he went from getting almost one-shotted to be able to tank Both Naruto and Sasuke Attacks.

Limbo being powerful enough to Barehand Grab Naruto's TSB.

the Kaji says Earth as in the ground. If it was meaning Earth as in Globe is would have said Chikyu:

No Caption Provided

Chikyu Equals Earth=Globe.

No Caption Provided

Daichi=Earth as in Ground. there are two different meanings buddy, there is no denying it, buddy, Naruto isn't planet level.

Hagoromo is planet level while dying he can create a moon.

Hagoromo at his weakest can create a moon.

Hagoromo at his strongest is planet level.

Naruto at his best was multi-continental level this was Naruto from the last. Toneri was using Hamura's Tenseigan(which had been Gaining energy for centuries) to slam the moon into the earth. Toneri then Tried to use his His Tenseigan to move the Moon. which again equals Multi-Continental level of chakra.

when Toneri get defeated he then Absorbs Naruto's chakra+1000s Byakugan Chakra+Chakra from the Artificial sun Hamura created...and was going to one-shot the earth with that chakra. it stated that Toneri nearly died from doing that because it was too much chakra.

It's also implied that Toneri at his strongest<<Hamura.

Toneri at his strongest as was going to use the chakra he took from Naruto+1000 Byakugan+Hamura's Fake Sun to destroy the earth in one attack.

JJHagoromo>>Rinnegan Hagoromo=Tenseigan Hamura>>Toneri final attack>Earth.

the fact that Hagoromo is above Hamura in power, make him planet buster.

By scaling Madara is above Hagoromo.

Kaguya is more powerful than Momoshiki. Momoshiki did that after he fused before that he was running from the Kages. only Jigen is more powerful than Kaguya, Momoshiki is below her by a massive amount. Naruto in base can kill Momoshiki, and fight him not only that Naruto at half power can beat Momoshiki.

Momoshiki needed Rinnegan to absorb the Jutsu to break free.

They needed power given directly from Hagoromo to defeat 1 eyed Juubi Madara.

Hagoromo's Sealing>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shikamaru's Jutsu>Momoshiki

Pain isn't planet level because he has no feats that or scaling that put him on there.

Madara has a feat that requires a planet level of chakra to do.

on top of that Scaling above Hagoromo and Hamura as well put him on those level.