Justice Society (DCEU) vs. Original Avengers (MCU 2012)

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Lexj7

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Morals Off, Random Encounter, Location - Citadel of Ricks, Teams Start 200 Meters Apart, No BFR, All are at their best, Win by KO or Death.

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americanspeeddemon

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Hulk and Thor could struggle a duo win. All together Avengers win in a fun fight.

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yejj

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JSA

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SpongeGar

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#4  Edited By SpongeGar

so JSA vs Thor and Hulk therefore JSA wins here

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GoddessofTruth2

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JSA

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jaakor

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Hulk and Thor clear them all, the rest just watch

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Archangel01

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JSA

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deltahuman

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#8  Edited By deltahuman

Hawkman, Fate and Atom vs Hulk and Thor. JSA Stomps

Atom is a casual 100000+ tonner and has nuke level durability from the mine feat. He just needs one punch to one shot either Hulk or Thor.

Hawkman is similar to Phase 1 Thor minus the lighting plus the superior lightning timer level speed and much better blunt force durability. He also has an one shot weapon in his axe. Seriously his blunt force durability is so good, he went toe to toe with Adam who is a causal 100000+ tonner as well and didn't have a single scratch on his face. Neither Hulk nor Thor can even hope to tickle him. He is also strong enough to stagger Adam with his mace and send him flying to create a crater on the ground. He can also absorb lightning. He would cleave Thor/Hulk in half after a good fight.

Fate has enough AP to make even Adam scream in pain and has nuke level durability from the mine feat. His clones can restrain Adam and Sabbac briefly as well. The clones are enough to one shot Tony. He can also easily restrain and KO Hulk who was KOed from falling from the Helicarrier.

Cyclone solos the street levelers and can then serve as a good distraction.

This is honestly a stomp. Perhaps even Fate could solo with a bunch of clones

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frozen

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#10 frozen  Moderator

JSA stomp.

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Subline

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@frozen said:

JSA stomp.

This. Fate with his clone spam alone is crazy. Hulk would be useless against Cyclone and Hawkman counters Thor pretty hard

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americanspeeddemon

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@deltahuman: I don't agree with Hawkman being a lightning timer. In the slomo scene the lightning is shown to move on par if not slower than bullets.

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deltahuman

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@americanspeeddemon:

Does it really matter if you agree or not. Even if Hawkman couldn't react to lightning, he'd still be significantly faster than Thor in combat just because he kept up with Adam in their first encounter. Plus the other advantages I mentioned. Phase 1 Thor isn't really that impressive. Even Loki can fight and stagger him momentarily and so can phase 1 Ironman. Hulk actually gave him a nosebleed with a single punch. Compare that to the blunt force damage Hawkman took against Adam and he didn't even have a single scratch on his body

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americanspeeddemon

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@deltahuman: Adam wasn't using his speed in thier first fight we see later he can easily blitz Hawkman if he wants. Hawkman was knocked out after being punched through a single maybe two buildings. He never tanked any punches on par with Hulk's best striking feats. Black Adam doesn't even have any striking feats on par with the Leviathan punch correct me if I'm wrong.

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deltahuman

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@americanspeeddemon:

Adam used speed in every fight. It's just that there are different tiers of speed. Adam can go from supersonic to hypersonic to thousands of machs according to his will. When Adam started toying with Hawkman, it was him fighting at a higher level of speed, that's it. Phase 1 Thor is street level in terms of combat speed and Hawkman can fight much beyond that level, that's all that matters. Hawkman ate a barrage of punches from Adam without a scratch. Cyclone even quipped that Hawkman doesn't give up. It's very easy to figure out that Hawkman's blunt force durability is much beyond Phase 1 Thor. Don't forget Hawkman also physically wrestled with Sabbac for a few minutes. Leviathan punch is overhyped. The leviathans don't weigh much and a falling leviathan was incapable of busting a building, nor flattening a taxi. Don't forget Adam is a 100000+ tonner. Phase 1 Hulk and Thor aren't even proper hundred tonners. Phase 1 hulk struggled with lifting a humvee

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joshua755

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Cap nat Hawkeye don’t need to be where with that said the JSA was very impressed with so I think fate can handle Ironman his hax Tony can’t deal with that easily gets trapped at least in this armor hulk Thor will be the mvp of this team I will say Tony can handle the girl forgot her name on the jsa atom Hawkman fate will be a lot but Thor hulk will be hard to put down

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ThEBeStOfTheBeST

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Phase 1 Avengers gets clapped.

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CryoLancer47

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#18  Edited By CryoLancer47

Justice Society of America CLAPS.

All the humans don't matter, and add nothing.

Tony is fodder to Fate, Hawkman, and Atom Smasher. He can only beat Cyclone.

Thor gets molested by Fate. And countered by Hawkman. One Ankh-Crystal or Fate's energy blasts that made even Sabbac fall to one knee, take him out quickly.

Hulk can be taken down by Kent or Hawk. Or the two at the same time, since Thor will be out of commission thanks to Fate.

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Limitless82

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Jsa in a decent fight

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americanspeeddemon

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I'm still not seeing the JSA taking out Thor and Hulk with any reliability.

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a8612152

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Thor and Hulk can solo.

Iron Man is probably above Hawkman even at this point.

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Great_Darkness

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JSA stomps as others have pointed out.

The only factors on the Avengers are Thor, Hulk and Iron Man. The rest of the supersoldiers and street tiers could be dealt with by Cyclone.

Atom and Fate can take on Thor and Hulk. Fate's versatility will be hard for Thor and Hulk, two bricks to deal with, and Atom Smasher isn't half bad stat wise.

Hawkman beats Tony convincingly.

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SamJackson

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I'm still not seeing the JSA taking out Thor and Hulk with any reliability.

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Tighten_returns

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#24  Edited By Tighten_returns

Hulk's best feat is the leviathan punch/push which he struggles with, Atom smasher lifts something heavier over his head and with no effort and his one striking feat is better than anything banner did prior.

Tony's best feat is blowing up that leviathan, his bullets won't scratch anyone here and he would probably get one shot by hawkman with a couple solid punches

Thor's jotunheim feat is just inferior to Adam's mine overload and Hawkman's armour along with Atom Smasher nosells it.

And then the fact that each of the the JSA are massively faster that all of them combined

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IRONandFIRE

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Iron Man is not a factor at this phase in Avengers.

Only ones who matter are Hulk and Thor. Considering Hulk reverted into banner after falling 30,000ish feet in the air I don’t see him being as big of a problem as some suggest here. He’s literally mindless and easily baited from battle.

So the Thor version that Hulk made bleed from a hit… yeah JSA fairly easily.

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yejj

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#27  Edited By yejj

Cyclone fodderizes widow and hawkeye

AS grabs IM like how giant man did to WM but he fodderizes him this time

Hawkman holds back thor

Fate beats hulk

All 4 bully thor afterwards

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OMEK

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JSA win the avengers don't

have impressive feats at this point

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WordWarrior

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Avengers stomp. Thor can solo. Hulk can solo. Iron Man can solo. Not sure what movie everyone else saw, but the JSA was straight up fodder.

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SamJackson

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@yejj said:

AS grabs IM like how giant man did to WM but he fodderizes him this time

AS gets one shot by Tony’s laser

Hawkman holds back thor

Phase 1 Thor was already shaking mountains with his strikes and his lightning leveled a range in Jotunheim. Hawkman isn’t really holding anything back.

Fate beats hulk

I’m so curious why y’all rate Fate so high, I can’t see him being anything more than a distraction for Hulk. I can only remember one offensive spell from him and you can barely call it that.

All 4 bully thor afterwards

AS gets one shot by Tony. Cyclone accidentally gets one shot by Thor or gets one shot by Tony. Hawkman loses to Thor everytime which ends with Thor, Tony and Hulk bullying Fate.

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dark_globe

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fake wannabe deadpool (what were they even thinking while writing this "character" ?!) ,
ex bond and the rest lose badly .
thor and hulk are enough to put them down .

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Watcer

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JSA. Hawkman carries.

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jaakor

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Thor and Hulk are enough to casually stomp.

Thor alone would solo then with one aoe lightning blast

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LogicBomb

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Fate solos.

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yejj

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#35  Edited By yejj
@samjackson said:
@yejj said:

AS grabs IM like how giant man did to WM but he fodderizes him this time

AS gets one shot by Tony’s laser

Hawkman holds back thor

Phase 1 Thor was already shaking mountains with his strikes and his lightning leveled a range in Jotunheim. Hawkman isn’t really holding anything back.

Fate beats hulk

I’m so curious why y’all rate Fate so high, I can’t see him being anything more than a distraction for Hulk. I can only remember one offensive spell from him and you can barely call it that.

All 4 bully thor afterwards

AS gets one shot by Tony. Cyclone accidentally gets one shot by Thor or gets one shot by Tony. Hawkman loses to Thor everytime which ends with Thor, Tony and Hulk bullying Fate.

Tanking a punch from an enraged black adam >>>> tonys laser

So why didn’t he use mountain level aoe again in avengers, plus hawkman can absorb thors lightning with his NTH until the rest come in to help

Hulk is never putting fate down, fate will constantly spam clones, punch him with his clones, slam ankhs onto him, and spam energy projectiles at him

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Amcu

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Morals off Thor should still be too much. No one here has the feats to tank his lightning at all and without morals he's not gonna need to hold back.

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LogicBomb

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@amcu said:

Morals off Thor should still be too much. No one here has the feats to tank his lightning at all and without morals he's not gonna need to hold back.

What's so great about Thor's lightning? His best one ever as per Thor himself is balcony level.

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Amcu

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@logicbomb: Jotunheim happened in Thor 1. Also that ragnarok bolt was directed as Hela. Not that that would even be an antifeat given what it is.

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LogicBomb

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#39  Edited By LogicBomb
@amcu said:

@logicbomb: Jotunheim happened in Thor 1. Also that ragnarok bolt was directed as Hela. Not that that would even be an antifeat given what it is.

What was so great about the JoTunHeIm feat? All it did was crack some ice and a chain reaction ensued. His fodder buddies were unharmed and able to outrun it. structures very close and all around Thor remained intact. 3 of the JSA would just hover and laugh at this? If it weren't for the nuke in The Avengers the team would have lost. If his lightning is as powerful as you say it is, why couldn't Thor Mjolnir his ass up through the portal and destroy the ship with it instead of relying on the Nuke to save them? Because it's not anywhere close to nuke level. His lightning is at best leviathan level which HM, Dr Fate and AS can easily tank.

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arctika

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#40  Edited By arctika

JSA ftw

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Amcu

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#41  Edited By Amcu

@logicbomb:

What was so great about the JoTunHeIm feat? All it did was crack some ice and a chain reaction ensued. His fodder buddies were unharmed and able to outrun it. structures very close and all around Thor remained intact. 3 of the JSA would just hover and laugh at this?

The Jotunheim feat sent out a shockwave that tore up Jotunheim ice for many thousands of feet all the way to Sif and the Warriors three(shown and confirmed by the script) and shattered towers ect.

If it weren't for the nuke in The Avengers the team would have lost. If his lightning is as powerful as you say it is, why couldn't Thor Mjolnir his ass up through the portal and destroy the ship with it instead of relying on the Nuke to save them? Because it's not anywhere close to nuke level. His lightning is at best leviathan level which HM, Dr Fate and AS can easily tank.

Seems like you're using a massive amount of speculation to try and lowball Thor's lightning. There's absolutely no indication that Thor could or couldn't have destroyed the Chitauri ship. We don't even know if Thor was aware of it. All we know was that his lightning absolutely fried everything coming out of the portal when he tried to use it. Why Thor stopped bottlenecking the portal and went on to help in the streets is unknown. Perhaps too many Chirarui had already passed and he didn't want to let them kill innocent people. No one knows but plot points like this do not in any way change Thor's feats.

AFAIK none of the JSA have feats remotely close enough to tank Thor's lightning. Infact none of them have feats to tank a Leviathan level blast either considering Leviathans could easily swim through skyscrappers and no sell Iron Man's lasers that insta melt chobham armor.

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LogicBomb

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@amcu said:

@logicbomb:

Seems like you're using a massive amount of speculation to try and lowball Thor's lightning. There's absolutely no indication that Thor could or couldn't have destroyed the Chitauri ship. We don't even know if Thor was aware of it. All we know was that his lightning absolutely fried everything coming out of the portal when he tried to use it. Why Thor stopped bottlenecking the portal and went on to help in the streets is unknown. Perhaps too many Chirarui had already passed and he didn't want to let them kill innocent people. No one knows but plot points like this do not in any way change Thor's feats.

You counter my 'Speculation' with your own speculation Lol nice. Fact is Thor didnt because he couldnt, period. They failed to deal with a subnuke level threat and relied on human weaponry to get the job done. The best his lightning could manage was push a couple of Leviathans back into the portal and maybe destroy 1. IM knew what was up there when he guided the nuke, logic dictates that Thor knew as well. I'm fine with highballing Thors lighting to being able to kill a leviathan. A level of attack that poses no threat to HM AS and Fate considering they tanked Black Adam's rage blast.

AFAIK none of the JSA have feats remotely close enough to tank Thor's lightning. Infact none of them have feats to tank a Leviathan level blast either considering Leviathans could easily swim through skyscrappers and no sell Iron Man's lasers that insta melt chobham armor.

Seems like AFAYK = nothing...Did you even watch BA? If Antman can 1 shot a Leviathan, Atom Smasher a casual 100k tonner can swat a whole fleet of them like flies.

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Amcu

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#43  Edited By Amcu

@logicbomb:

You counter my 'Speculation' with your own speculation Lol nice.

Exactly. As easily as you can argue that Thor should've/would've done something if he were x level I can argue that he may not have for logical reasons using my own speculation. The point is that speculation is far from exact and does not take precedence over feats, so I'm not sure why you're hammering this point.

Fact is Thor didnt because he couldnt, period. They failed to deal with a subnuke level threat and relied on human weaponry to get the job done. The best his lightning could manage was push a couple of Leviathans back into the portal and maybe destroy 1.

We again find the same issue with speculation going both ways. For 1 how do you even know that the nuke used in that scene was an ordinary nuke? It was confirmed earlier in this film SHIELD was building nukes from the tesseract. Furthermore when Fury justified making new WMD's he directly sited the fact that Thor/The Destroyer showed them that they were "hopelessly/hilariously outgunned". As in current WMD's aren't at the level needed to combat them. Fury made it painfully obvious that the world powers didn't consider themselves to be anywhere near the power level of Thor/The destroyer without developing new WMD.

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This flies completely in the face of your entire narrative while having far more narrative evidence baking it. Still I rarely ever bring it up in debates as its ultimately still not concrete feats or clear indisputable statements. But if we're just talking about general portrayal Thor is and has always been portrayed above nuke level.

What I'm also curious about is why you think that Thor's lightning needs to be anywhere near nuke level to kill everyone here easily?

IM knew what was up there when he guided the nuke, logic dictates that Thor knew as well.

It's been a minute since I watched Avengers but I don't actually think this is accurate. Tony had to send the missile somewhere as the nuke was already fired at New York and would have killed all the civilians there. There's no safe place for him to put the nuke in a reasonable amount of time. He may have guessed that firing it at the Chitarui's home base would be a good idea but it doesn't mean that he new it would work.

I'm fine with highballing Thors lighting to being able to kill a leviathan.

IDK if your just speaking very hyperbolically to sound cool but its not highballing to rate Thor's lightning at the level of doing something it quite literally did onscreen given that it has no anti feats at all.

A level of attack that poses no threat to HM AS and Fate considering they tanked Black Adam's rage blast.

What about that was impressive again?

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jaakor

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"Balcony level lightning Thor"

Wow, these guys really bring new things everyday

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RajjarsAlt

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#45  Edited By RajjarsAlt  Online
@jaakor said:

"Balcony level lightning Thor"

Wow, these guys really bring new things everyday

Don't worry, Atom Smasher can be similarly disgraced!

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Sabbac's Hell AoE was no-sold by a weakened building twice (once as it explodes, once as it implodes) and still managed to put Atom Smasher in the dirt!

Thor's hammer Mjolnir, which means SMASHER, smashes Atom Smasher as easily as it smashes an atom!

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chris2kzombieki

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@rajjarsalt: Yeah I was wondering if I missed the full clip, if that Aoe didn’t even destroy a building that’s huge.

Also, if someone tries to say it was like an energy attack etc than that just debunks their entire point

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Pandalumina

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@jaakor said:

Thor and Hulk are enough to casually stomp.

Thor alone would solo then with one aoe lightning blast

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Tighten_returns

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Fate solos

Smasher solos

Hawkman... solos?

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Jurance

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#49 Jurance  Online

Everyone is at their strongest so:

Iron Man, Hulk, Thor Vs Atom Smasher, Fate and Hawkman.

Iron Man can't hurt Atom Smasher so Smasher swats him away eventually, Hawkman eventually get's tagged and ripped apart by Hulk, I doubt Hulk can hurt Atom so either way between them but gonna go with Atom due to speed advantage. Thor one-shots Atom then dies to Fate.

In fact, Fate solos the Avengers with clone spam, illusions and speed advantage.

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Triplek

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Thor solos