Rules:
- TV versions.
- Battle takes place in the Castle Black training ground.
- Standard fighting gear. Win by death.
- Tormund cannot use his member as a weapon.
- Jorah is battling for Daenerys, Tormund for Sheila the bear.
TV versions. Battle takes place in the Castle Black training ground. Standard fighting gear. Tormund cannot use his member as a weapon. Win by death. Jorah is battling for Daenerys, Tormund for Sheila the bear.
Does that mean what I think it means?
@rogueshadow: I think Jorah would take this, Tormund was having a pretty even fight with Alliser Thorne who from show feats isn't that impressive and was only killing fodder Night's Watch men. Jorah on the other hand killed a vicious Dothraki blood rider (shown in the gif above) and worked with Daario and Grey Worm to take out numerous Yunkai guards (though again these might be considered fodder). Tough fight, though Lord Friendzone of Bear Island has quite a lot of incentive with Dany. I say he takes it by a small majority. Good fight
@thanofleeze: Probably :P
Tormund has more consistent fighting feats, and his persistent ferocity is something to be feared. Mormont struggled with Qotho, who didn't have a weapon suitable for a fight and was armorless if I remember correctly, having only won because Qotho's sickle got caught in his armor. I don't see why he would last long against Tormund, who slaughtered quite a few men of the watch without much difficulty and almost, killed Ser Alliser, a man who displayed better skill than Mormont. Plus, Tormund fights at a much faster and "in your face" kind of pace, as opposed to how Jorah's battle played out.
@pope052: Ser Allister was owned by a bulky cannibal.
@pope052: Ser Allister was owned by a bulky cannibal.
Tormund isn't a cannibal, Alliser was only struggling and "lost" to him.
From the TV show I can't really tell which characters are supposed to be good fighters, but it looks like Oberyn, Brienne, Sandor, Bronn, Drogo and Gregor are the only ones who have really been made out to be well above average, between everyone else, it seems like a toss up.
@pope052: Oh, I thought the Fenn was the one who sliced Allister up. Bad memory I guess.
Jorah would kill him, because he at least wears armor and is trained. Tormund only wears animal skins.
Armor didn't seem to help the Mountain from getting owned by Oberyn, and Mormont has displayed no skill to speak of. I really don't see any advantage Mormont has against Tormund, based on feats. Tormund has shown to be faster, more durable, more skilled, and more ferocious which would help, and just in general a better fighter than Jorah has ever. He's stronger too, and he hits harder up close.
With standard gear Jorah wins hands down.
Spoiler below:
Wildlings don't do well against knights in plate.
I'll back Tormund. Too powerful, ferocious and isn't sloppy either.
@pope052: In Game of Thrones knights getting tagged does not necessarily mean that they couldn't have dodged.
Barristan Selmy in particular talks about how the best knights know what strikes will do damage and which ones will just get caught on their armor. They calculate the opening that the ineffectual blow will make and strike. Jorah has a high level of experience in two wars and then had more experience fighting unorthodox Essos fighters in his time as a mercenary for the Golden Company. He also has a large scale tournament win, so it would be a normal assumption to say that Jorah let Qotho hit him because he knew it wouldn't injure him significantly and would give him the chance to deal the killing blow.
Full plate and a bastard sword > wolfpelts and short hatchets
Jorah's experience fighting unorthodox fast fighters > Tormund's experience fighting knights in full plate (Rangers don't wear plate on ranging missions because it gets too cold beyond the wall.)
I remember Qotho and Jorah talking about Essos vs Westoros weapons and armor earlier in the season. Qotho said it's good to be light and quick whereas Jorah said the armor will keep you alive. I guess we saw who was right.
I remember Qotho and Jorah talking about Essos vs Westoros weapons and armor earlier in the season. Qotho said it's good to be light and quick whereas Jorah said the armor will keep you alive. I guess we saw who was right.
It's about how knowledgeable you are on fighting your opponent's pros and cons really, look at Oberyn, his fighting style looked like a combination of Essosi and further East in the Yi Ti , but because he has knowledge on how to fight men in plate, he actually has an advantage because of his additional speed. Also, Jorah spoke to Rakharo about it, Qotho was the blood rider he killed, I loved that fight, one of my favourites.
@rogueshadow: I think Oberyn definitely had the prep advantage going into that fight though. Not to mention getting a second weapon.
Ah, I must have confused them. Yeah it was a cool scene.
@i_like_swords: Fight in the books was different, none of that dancing around, if he'd been on the battlefield he would have been done for, but at the same time, he had many opportunities to just stab him through the back of his head. I think Gregor would crush him and many others in the battlefield, even those far more skilled than him, the tightness of combat and the sheer power of him makes him a far useful warrior on the battlefield than in single combat. Tormund vs Alliser was awesome too, I love the fights that really distinguish between the fighting styles of various cultures.
@rogueshadow: I guess you can just go into a lot more detail with a book than with live action. I've seen 20 second live action fights which have pages upon pages of detail in the novelisation. It's kind of funny in a way.
It was a good way to show what the two of them could do, because we hadn't really seen either of them do much fighting. Was a very nice scene.
No, you can't really compare a character's assumed skill based on experience and especially when in regards to how Jorah and Qotho's fight played out. Qotho appeared to have the edge in that fight for the most part (even though it was only about thirty seconds long), Jorah was sluggish and Qotho managed to cut his lip, not to mention when he knocked Mormont to the ground. Jorah gained no edge in that battle until Qotho got his sickle stuck in his armor, and it didn't look intentional. Qotho is a man of little skill based on that one occurrence, yet he was the better fighter based on what we witnessed go down, instead of what's assumed.
Even though Qotho is fast and somewhat skilled, based on feats Tormund is faster, more skilled, and definitely more ferocious. He's stronger, and at least he uses some form of armor, plus he was giving Alliser hell, who's faster and more skilled than Mormont. The better showings go to Tormund by a feats comparison as opposed to Qotho in pretty much ever aspect, so how exactly would Mormont go about it based on what we've seen? Experience isn't a great argument unless you can show it, and well.
Current Jorah definitely loses...
Season 5 Jorah wins 7/10 solidly in my opinion. His sword would go right through Tormund's furs (it pierced bronze(?) plate), and has displayed far superior technical skill. He beat Qotho, who was Drogo's best bloodrider, and somewhat similar to Tormund. He beat a dozen or so Yunkai guards with Daario and Grey Worm. He beat a Norvosi Bearded Priest and the Champion of Meereen. The only fight he really lost was against the Braavosi water dancer.
Giving it to Tormund.
Armor isn't everything and people defending Jorah confuse me. I heavily believe with the lesser armor, Tormund has the speed over Jorah and the knowledge of how to strike armor properly.
6/10 for me because while Jorah isn't a joke, the argument about what sword pierces what and the knowledge Jorah has doesn't matter much when Tormund has just as much knowledge when it comes to facing plated knights.
Tormund, though I'd say that it'd be close, due to Jorah's armour. Remove his armour, and Tormund is winning comfortably.
the gif in the OP is hilarious
I stand by my previous claim.
And yet here you stand ?:) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-URrBZ_oIO0
Jorah's an OP character; easily more entertaining than Tormund, in my opinion.
Tormund never had his own narrative arc but it remains a good character.
Did you see episode 5?
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