John the first 2 rounds, and then Harley the last round.
John was capable of fighting and killing over 20 trained assassins, get hit by a car and still fight despite the fact he was injured.
John also knows a mix of martial arts and grappling techniques that we see him use regularly, while Harely doesn't have h2h feats that suggest she is close to the same tier.
John has also killed people stronger than him, he is really good at using his surroundings as weapons, and is able to disappear from trained assassins without them noticing. And this is all done by a beat up John who fought for 72 hours straight, and is no longer in his prime. Add the fact that in this fight he is in his prime, he beats her mid diff.
Harley with her standard Equipment is a different story, her weapons are more than capable of taking people above John.
IMO the other 2 rounds John should win, considering he has shown actual combat techniques and experience taking out multiple people with just h2h and with is gun. I would say he is less accurate than Dead shot for sure, but definitely more accurate than Harley, since he's been able to head shot people while wrestling people at the same time, and he's done so with knives as well.
Not to mention all the people John faces are apart of an elite society of assassins who governments don't even interfere with because of how dangerous they are.
IMO the other 2 rounds John should win, considering he has shown actual combat techniques and experience taking out multiple people with just h2h and with is gun. I would say he is less accurate than Dead shot for sure, but definitely more accurate than Harley, since he's been able to head shot people while wrestling people at the same time, and he's done so with knives as well.
Not to mention all the people John faces are apart of an elite society of assassins who governments don't even interfere with because of how dangerous they are.
Are you saying Harley hasn't took people out just H2H.. shes oneshot fully geared military people, shes beat down eyes of the adversary (who could take Rick Flag (twice) without harming him per enchatesses orders, Harley had to save him twice), and she has definitely beat more fodder in less time in pure H2H... she has also fought assassins in BOP.
Wick is not more accurate than her, not in distance shots, not in fodder busting per minute, and definitely not while wrestling people... shes pulled out clean headshots whilst doing flips and while wrestling super soliders.
Look how many super beings she drops whilst wrestling one.
Shes the better marksman, the better h2h fighter, shes stronger, faster and more skilled.
(as far as dura, shes took hits from eyes of the adversary, a 7 story fall, hits from incubus and enchantress, hits from cars and motorcycles, and a lot more.
John the first 2 rounds, and then Harley the last round.
John was capable of fighting and killing over 20 trained assassins, get hit by a car and still fight despite the fact he was injured.
John also knows a mix of martial arts and grappling techniques that we see him use regularly, while Harely doesn't have h2h feats that suggest she is close to the same tier.
John has also killed people stronger than him, he is really good at using his surroundings as weapons, and is able to disappear from trained assassins without them noticing. And this is all done by a beat up John who fought for 72 hours straight, and is no longer in his prime. Add the fact that in this fight he is in his prime, he beats her mid diff.
Harley with her standard Equipment is a different story, her weapons are more than capable of taking people above John.
Man if your impressed by John getting hit by a car, id love to here your thought on this.
A direct comparision.
Here is the feat that you mentioned for John hit by a car.
She took a car and dented a van. much better showing than johns and she got up first... this isnt me showing anti feats.. you tried to use the car thing as a feat for John and Harley did it better... This isnt near Harleys best dura feat, shes took hits from incubus, enchantress, super soliders, 7 story falls, explosions and a lot more.
The big problem is Wick doesn't fight supers, she does.
Theres Harley, multiple stories... The issue is Wick is more grounded in reality than what harley does, shes fought Gods, Monsters and Kaiju on top of Assassins and Military, she regularly breaks bones with single hits, and her marksmen ship and gun fu is above wick ...as you said being able to headshot people while wrestling others is impressive (Harley headshots sueprsoliders whilst flipping around and wrestling other super soliders.)
SS fights were even worse choreography than Nolan Batman fights. Wick’s actual moves destroy the keystone cops type stuff Harley was pulling off. Wick wins the first two rounds. Round 3 may go to Quinn as she has more gear.
@death4bunnies: You didn't show any feats to suggest she should win round 2 BTW
Also you forget that John got hit by the car after killing over 20 trained assassins and was injured, as his suit blocks the bullets but he still feels the pain. He then went on to tussle with Cassian and they also fell down a flight of stairs.
John, while heavily injured, and having fought for 72 hours straight, survived a fall from a 6 story building, hitting rails and metal platforms on the way down.
Although he was injured after, this was after he was already exhausted and injured
After he was already injured, and hurt, and tired, and he was still able to get up.
Not to mention this was him when he just got back out of retirement, in the first movie his feats are far less compared to the other 2.
Theres Harley, multiple stories... The issue is Wick is more grounded in reality than what harley does, shes fought Gods, Monsters and Kaiju on top of Assassins and Military, she regularly breaks bones with single hits, and her marksmen ship and gun fu is above wick ...as you said being able to headshot people while wrestling others is impressive (Harley headshots sueprsoliders whilst flipping around and wrestling other super soliders.)
Harley has never fought any assassins, and the super soldiers she faced, where thoughtless monsters with no fighting ability, not to mention every other person was able to kill them as well.
Here John head shots 7 assassins before they can fire on him, quick draw and accuracy.
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John is more than capable of replicating the majority of her feats, besides the helicopter feat maybe, but majority of her best h2h feats are against fodder police and fodder gangsters in birds of prey. John always faces the worlds best killers and always comes out on top, and that's after he fought them, and a bunch of other people. Again the people he faces, are the BEST in the world, better killers than soldiers and any other person in their universe, which is why no government is willing to mess with them or get in their way.
When she has her bat or gear, yeah she beats him, but John has shown the ability to kill with just about anything, and is capable of using multiple techniques to take down stronger opponents
Harley is no stronger than an average man, as in Birds of Prey, multiple times, standard men where able to overpower or lift her, but with her skill she was always able to beat them easily. Her durability is good on the other hand, but nothing John can't handle, as he fights multiple people constantly with little to no breaks in between. Harley consistently had breaks between her fights.
@death4bunnies: You didn't show any feats to suggest she should win round 2 BTW
Bruh I do so... in fact I did in direct comparison to what you thought was good...You said that Wick headshoting people while wrestling them was impressive, then I showed you Harley headshoting super soliders while wrestling super soliders...
My response to you in regards to round 2 is in post number 22 on this very thread
Now this is just extreme lowball.. and imo proof of the gap here.
Your using excuses like other named members of the SS survived those hits.. ye those are feats for them, John wick doesnt live in a universe with gods, and monsters and kaiju.
And then the downplay of the Eye of Adversary is especially egregious.. They were specifically stated to be super soliders, and they have been tested against groups of navy seals, in H2H and with guns.
You said.
Harley has never fought any assassins, and the super soldiers she faced, where thoughtless monsters with no fighting ability, not to mention every other person was able to kill them as well.
Harley did fight assassins in BOP they even had a training camp thats where Huntress was trained.. and again this down play of the Eyes of the Adversary.. im about to make a respect thread because this is such downplay.
You saying the eyes are thoughtless monsters with no fighting ability is directly contradicted by statements and feats.
The EA's explicitly retain their military skills, and weapons abilities along with superhuman stats.
(^runs up using gun^). This was stated and shown on screen, these things are superhuman and military.(^ambush from high ground, waiting until Task Force X leaves cover^ ). Using military weapons and coordinated tactics..
Furthermore they took out whole groups of 'the best of the best' Navy seals.
Look at this next gif a single eye takes down 2 seals in H2H combat.
I think we can all probably agree at this point that a single EOA is >>> 2 Navy seals.
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You said.
Also you forget that John got hit by the car after killing over 20 trained assassins and was injured, as his suit blocks the bullets but he still feels the pain. He then went on to tussle with Cassian and they also fell down a flight of stairs.
Dude, you act like Harley did any of these feats fresh, she cleared 3 floors and the garage of a police station and had a huge fight with Ganagsters and assassins killing way more than 20 then got hit by that car in to that truck....In her recent movie she fought on the beach, was tortured, and still took out a good 50 armed military men, and then take multiple story falls, a explosion and still fight a Kaiju.. he was tired so he never got a single feat on that level; isnt gonna cut it imo.
Harley is no stronger than an average man
Again insane lowball when she physically beat up groups of them, broken bones with strikes, and and one and 2 shots armored men regularly.
'Average man' give me a break.
She does a pull up and lifts this struggling dude off the ground... it would take a pretty top notch weight lifter to do a pull up with 200 lbs.. let alone 200 lbs of stuggling man....lol at average man strength.
Harley wins all rounds, better feats in every category.
Again insane lowball when she physically beat up groups of them, broken bones with strikes, and and one and 2 shots armored men regularly.
'Average man' give me a break.
She does a pull up and lifts this struggling dude off the ground... it would take a pretty top notch weight lifter to do a pull up with 200 lbs.. let alone 200 lbs of stuggling man....lol at average man strength.
Harley wins all rounds, better feats in every category.
Honestly that was a pretty crazy and cool strength feat. She lifted both her own body weight and his off the ground while being hanged by her wrists(for a pretty long time) and after being tortured, and then she cracked his neck while lifting them both. Makes literally no sense how someone could think she's weaker than a normal man.
Bruh I do so... in fact I did in direct comparison to what you thought was good...You said that Wick headshoting people while wrestling them was impressive, then I showed you Harley headshoting super soliders while wrestling super soliders...
My response to you in regards to round 2 is in post number 22 on this very thread
Like I said, you haven't given any reason as to why she is better at shooting? John killed multiple assassins while wrestling in BJJ with another person trying to to the same to him and still shot and hit his targets. Those "super soldiers" where also just straight up trying to choke her while she shot it in the head, so much for combat effectiveness. Not to mention these same super humans had they're heads bashed in by a wooden bat. Yes you can do the same to a regular human, after a couple hits.
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You said..
Now this is just extreme lowball.. and imo proof of the gap here.
Your using excuses like other named members of the SS survived those hits.. ye those are feats for them, John wick doesnt live in a universe with gods, and monsters and kaiju.
And then the downplay of the Eye of Adversary is especially egregious.. They were specifically stated to be super soliders, and they have been tested against groups of navy seals, in H2H and with guns.
Not excuses, it's just a fact that they are fodder minions, only reason they where able to beat the Navy seals is because they over ran them while they where defending the bomb so it could go off. In any situation, numbers can easily overcome skill. Especially since they were not resistent to bullets at all, there is no reason to believe that they dodged their gun fire and still managed to outskill them. What happened is they over ran them, similar to how zombies over run an army in movies.
You said.
Harley did fight assassins in BOP they even had a training camp thats where Huntress was trained.. and again this down play of the Eyes of the Adversary.. im about to make a respect thread because this is such downplay.
They are nothing more than henchman, Ayer said so himself, which is why the Navy seals where able to kill a lot of them before they got over run.
You saying the eyes are thoughtless monsters with no fighting ability is directly contradicted by statements and feats.
The EA's explicitly retain their military skills, and weapons abilities along with superhuman stats.
(^runs up using gun^). This was stated and shown on screen, these things are superhuman and military.(^ambush from high ground, waiting until Task Force X leaves cover^ ). Using military weapons and coordinated tactics..
In the movie they are only ever shown shooting or getting killed, they never show martial prowess. Not to mention they aren't all soldiers, a lot of them where made from average humans, including police and children, not everyone of them were made from soldiers. Only reason they had tactics is because they where being directly controlled by enchantress.
Furthermore they took out whole groups of 'the best of the best' Navy seals.
Yes, hundreds of them took on a group of 10 or so Navy SEALS, so obviously they must be better?
Look at this next gif a single eye takes down 2 seals in H2H combat.
They showed some real h2h there /s
This was no more than an ambush, it's not like they went at each other while prepared to fight hand to hand
I think we can all probably agree at this point that a single EOA is >>> 2 Navy seals.
Show me 1 taking on one soldier in an actual h2h situation and then I will agree, overrunning them while they are protecting a bomb isn't much of a feat, especially since they where killing a lot of them.
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You said.
Dude, you act like Harley did any of these feats fresh, she cleared 3 floors and the garage of a police station and had a huge fight with Ganagsters and assassins killing way more than 20 then got hit by that car in to that truck....In her recent movie she fought on the beach, was tortured, and still took out a good 50 armed military men, and then take multiple story falls, a explosion and still fight a Kaiju.. he was tired so he never got a single feat on that level; isnt gonna cut it imo.
Against Police officers, most of which were ambushed and even ran away from her, and criminals. Non of these enemy's are h2h threats for anyone, hell an average man can beat a police officer. John kills trained assassins who(in his universe) are the best killers in the world, so much so the governments around the world won't mess with them. Remember the police officer who asked if John was working again?
Not to mention, in the last 2 movies, he was specifically fighting people from the high table, who are the best of the best, and it has been stated multiple times no one has survived against the high table, except him of course.
Again, she wasn't fighting like him non stop, literally he would only have a downtime of less than 20 minutes, and he did it all by himself with no backup and no help except for 2 scenes in the 3rd movie. And that was an hour after he killed over 40 assassins that were chasing him through New York, including killing multiple of them while on a motorcycle and a horse.
Again insane lowball when she physically beat up groups of them, broken bones with strikes, and and one and 2 shots armored men regularly.
With her equipment yes, not with her fist, and John literally did the same.
'Average man' give me a break.
She does a pull up and lifts this struggling dude off the ground... it would take a pretty top notch weight lifter to do a pull up with 200 lbs.. let alone 200 lbs of stuggling man....lol at average man strength.
Harley wins all rounds, better feats in every category.
Very impressive, in the same movie she was tackled by a gangster, unless these gangsters now have feats that suggest they are super human as well.
But I will give it to you she is stronger than him by a good margin, but like I said, on multiple occasions he has killed people stronger than him based on skill and using his surroundings, and has killed multiple people fighting him at the same time.
This is John in his prime, in the movies we only every see him while tired and worn out, not to mention he had been out of the game for years before being dragged back in. John in his prime would be even farther above that, especially since we have multiple characters state that what John had done now would be easy for him in his prime.
We also have the fact that John's best shooting feat had him head shotting 7 people before they could fire on him, and not to mention, he was able to disappear in front of skilled assassins who did the same to other assassins, something that should be impossible, but he did it multiple times while fighting Zero.
He has multiple martial art techniques that we see him use on multiple people, who are more skilled than the majority of the people that Harley dealt with, they are above elite soldiers, elite assassins, and definitely above cops and gangsters.
Don't get me wrong, round 1 is really close and could easily go in her favor, I have just seen more utility and practicality in John's fighting styled compared to Harley's, as he relies on his fist more than she does. Still you have not shown anything that would suggest that Harley has as good marksmanship, not just head shooting people while wrestling, but also on a quick draw which is really insane.
John headshotted 7 people before they could pull out their guns and shoot him, he would clear easily, especially since majority of people he faces are elite assassins, known to be the best killers in the world
@infinitemass:the 7 people he head shotted were just nameless fodder tho. & since that was your go-to, Im guessing you think that’s wicks best feat of marksmanship?
Its definitely impressive, i just personally feel like harleys feat of 1 shotting people coming from multiple random directions could possibly be better. Especially since she was spinning around & even looked to have angled her body to dodge a shooter at 1 point without having any idea where each man was coming from until they entered each other’s field of view.
She was even making shots without looking. Without even mentioning this ridiculous shot on the spin
Ye we are definitely gonna have to agree to disagree.
I showed you one eye of adversary beating up 2 navy seals h2h and you said that they eye had the number advantage.. I feel like your kinda being dishonest here..pretty clear this one eye of adversary beats up 2 navy seals.
Harley was tanking hits from them, and Enchantess and Incubus, and tons of other stuff.
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You may want to rewatch BOP... Huntress was trained on the same island that Black Masks people are trained at, assassins, furthermore the same guys who murdered Huntresses family, and trained her, also black mask guys.
This attempt at lowball is again quite ridiculous.
Harley has factual beat Gods, Monsters, Super Soliders, Kaiju, Cops, Military, and Assassins.
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Again I think we are gonna just have to agree to disagree., I think by virtue of fighting with superpowered people and sheer numbers of fodder busting post torture, Harley take this.
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After being tortured.
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Grabs struggling solider with her legs, lifts him off the ground with a pull up, then snaps his neck.
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Gets the drop on three soliders, then kills 20ish solider that knew someone was coming.(need to count)
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Some H2H
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Kills another 15ish soldiers (need to count)
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Kills 11ish more soldiers with a javelin.(need to count)
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So she killed about 50 armed soldiers in a single fight sequence after being tortured.
Again insane lowball when she physically beat up groups of them, broken bones with strikes, and and one and 2 shots armored men regularly.
'Average man' give me a break.
She does a pull up and lifts this struggling dude off the ground... it would take a pretty top notch weight lifter to do a pull up with 200 lbs.. let alone 200 lbs of stuggling man....lol at average man strength.
Harley wins all rounds, better feats in every category.
Honestly that was a pretty crazy and cool strength feat. She lifted both her own body weight and his off the ground while being hanged by her wrists(for a pretty long time) and after being tortured, and then she cracked his neck while lifting them both. Makes literally no sense how someone could think she's weaker than a normal man.
Dito. What made it even more impressive was how casual she did it -
Judging by her calm/cold facial expression (no heavy panting, no teeth-grinding, no ugly-face straining), her firm assertive body control (no arm-shaking, no leg-trumbling, no signs of physical strain against the weight), and the fact that even after the man was out, she was still comfortable enough to hold onto him for a few more seconds just to be sure, then retrieved the key in a chirpy cutesy manner, meaning that she most likely can do it for longer and lift heavier. In other word - this feat is a piece of cake to her, even after receiving brutal torture and "dead arms" after been hang like that for god-knows-how-long. Seriously, forget about being chained up by your own body weight, just go and try holding both your arms up like that for 20-30mins straight and tell me how sore/numb they gets afterward lol much less try to lift heavyweight with them.
Dito. What made it even more impressive was how casual she did it -
Judging by her calm/cold facial expression (no heavy panting, no ugly-face straining), her firm assertive body control (no arm-shaking, no signs of strain against the weight), and the fact that even after the man was out, she was still comfortable enough to hold onto him for a few more seconds just to be sure, meaning that she most likely can do it for longer and lift heavier. In other word - this feat is a piece of cake to her, even after receiving brutal torture and "dead arms" after been hang like that for god-knows-how-long. Seriously, forget about being chained up by your own body weight, just go and try holding both your arms up like that for 20-30mins straight and tell me how sore/numb they gets afterward lol much less try to lift heavyweight with them.
Honestly, perfect explanation (If that's the way to call it - or maybe attention to details, idk).
Honestly, I have no idea for round 2 but Harley wins round 1 pretty easily and stomps round 3.
Ye we are definitely gonna have to agree to disagree.
I showed you one eye of adversary beating up 2 navy seals h2h and you said that they eye had the number advantage.. I feel like your kinda being dishonest here..pretty clear this one eye of adversary beats up 2 navy seals.
Harley was tanking hits from them, and Enchantress and Incubus, and tons of other stuff.
Again, they were being over run, literally tackling someone not even focused on you isn't much of a h2h feat.
The entire fight had them dropping multiple enemies, and they where eventually overrun, zombies do the same in multiple movies, it's not a h2h feat if said monsters are still getting killed until they eventually overrun the enemy, strength in numbers.
John in the third movie took on an army of soldiers cladded in complete bullet proof gear that allowed them to tank bullets, John no only shot weak points with accuracy, but was able to hurt them through their armor. If anything I think people are low balling John just because his universe in more grounded in reality, but that doesn't make his feats any less insane.
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This was after he fought and killed all the other assassins chasing him.
Gets the drop on three soliders, then kills 20ish solider that knew someone was coming.(need to count)
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John literally replicated the same thing, but only with a gun with 7 bullets, and he killed just about every single on of them with head shots and center body mass shots.
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Her with the Javelin, I already said she murks, h2h is still up in the air for me, but she is stronger(not by much as he was able to hurt people with suits that tanked small round fire arms) and more agile.
Bruh they were looking right at the eyes, and 1 eoa beat 2 seals...in h2h... you cant say there was a numbers advantage for the eoa when 1 eoa takes down 2 seals...they also beat down rick flag twice... pretty major plot point of the movie is that they were enhanced.
Ive showed you statements and feats putting these guys above the best military in the world(there were real navy seals on set, and they show you here how they filmed the AOE to be inhumanly strong and fast.., in direct h2h with a single eye being outnumbered he still takes down 2 seals.. if you cant accept that I dont have much more to say.... its just you trying to lowball the EOA who used weapons, tactics and have the feats to back up there better than military statements.
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How do you think almost 7 kills with 7 bullets is the same as 20+ kills?
Simple match shows Harleys feat is better, and the people she show were also armed and armored, 20+ clean headshots >> almost 7.
This is pretty basic, you know 20 being more than 7... I mean she was headshoting some of those dudes without even looking there way.
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Its not lowballing because his universe is based in reality, its just that because his universe is based in reality he doesnt carry such crazy good feats, its not a hit on the movies or his character; its just based not he feats he has in comparison to the feats she has.
You say others are downplaying wick then you say he no difs her, but cant show feats on her level?? Can you not see the humor?
Bruh they were looking right at the eyes, and 1 eoa beat 2 seals...in h2h... you cant say there was a numbers advantage for the eoa when 1 eoa takes down 2 seals...they also beat down rick flag twice... pretty major plot point of the movie is that they were enhanced.
Again, while SHOOTING OTHERS, it wasn't 1 or 2 EOA's vs the seals, it was hundreds of them, they where clearly over run, I don't know how to make it clearer. If they could take them on easily, it wouldn't take a literal army of them to take them out, they would only need 2 or 3 at most, and we have seen that they die from regular bullets.
Ive showed you statements and feats putting these guys above the best military in the world(there were real navy seals on set, andthey show you here how they filmed the AOE to be inhumanly strong and fast.., in direct h2h with a single eye being outnumbered he still takes down 2 seals.. if you cant accept that I dont have much more to say.... its just you trying to lowball the EOA who used weapons, tactics and have the feats to back up there better than military statements.
Again while they were shooting and killing multiple other, there was no 2 on one, it was literally them being over run by a large group of them. Are EOA's stronger than Navy Seals? Yes, but not by so much, because it still took a ton of them to over run a group of Navy Seals, and they showed zero technique in H2H, literally just tackled a Navy Seal while shooting and hitting the other. I already showed you Wick hurting people who were wearing armor that could straight up tank small round bullets being fired at them.
How do you think almost 7 kills with 7 bullets is the same as 20+ kills?
He did it before they could shoot him is what makes it impressive, he got 7 head shots with only 7 bullets on a quick draw. How you don't realize how that is better than any gun feats for Harley is beyond me.
Simple match shows Harleys feat is better, and the people she show were also armed and armored, 20+ clean headshots >> almost 7.
He got 7 clean head shots, watch the video, and he did it on a quick draw before they could shoot him, Harley was NEVER in a situation where she had to shoot someone on the draw, and a majority of them weren't head shots.
This is pretty basic, you know 20 being more than 7... I mean she was headshoting some of those dudes without even looking there way.
Clearly you can't tell the difference in the feats, he head shot 7 PEOPLE IN A QUICK DRAW BEFORE THEY COULD PULL OUT THERE GUNS AND SHOOT HIM >>> Killing 20 people with guns where most of them weren't head shots.
Its not lowballing because his universe is based in reality, its just that because his universe is based in reality he doesnt carry such crazy good feats, its not a hit on the movies or his character; its just based not he feats he has in comparison to the feats she has.
You completely misinterpreted my argument, but what ever, he only stomps in shooting because he has better accuracy feats, ex. quick drawing and shooting 7 people in the head before they could pull out their guns and shoot him.
She only has some showings of shooting people and most of them not being head shots, John was getting head shots from distance with other peoples guns while he was wrestling them, like come on. He also has more head shots in his movies than she has, and has a higher kill list with guns as well.
You say others are downplaying wick then you say he no difs her, but cant show feats on her level?? Can you not see the humor?
I can't because you literally just misconstrued my argument and have no idea what I am saying as if I am speaking gibberish.
THE ONLY ROUND HE STOMPS IS WITH GUNS BECAUSE HE HAS A HIGHER HEAD SHOT RATE, A MUCH BIGGER KILL RATE WITH GUNS, AND IS ABLE TO OUT DRAW MULTIPLE OPPONENTS AND STILL LAND HEAD SHOTS.
And BTW, in that scene he killed over 20 people while chasing down Santonio.
It’s been like a decade and people still haven’t explained how to quantify skill. Is it better choreography? How much fodder one defeats? Knowing more martial arts? Beating named characters?
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