John Constantine vs. Lucifer Morningstar

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IheartZombies92--defunct

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Constantine is coming for Lucy, and needs to somehow bring him down through any means possible. Lucy does not know that anyone is coming for him.

Round 1: 10 years prep for Connie

Round 2: 1 year prep for Connie

Round 3: 1 month prep for Connie

Round 4: 1 week prep for Connie

He can bring in anyone he wants, anything goes.

----------------------------

For the rest of my battles, click here!

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MonsterStomp

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Only way I see John winning is by convincing The Presence to erase him. I doubt that would happen. I'll stick to that theory until someone else can bring up a logical and convincing argument for John.

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the_red_viper

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#3 the_red_viper  Moderator

John's House of Mysteries gives him infinite prep. The question is, is it even possible for him to find a way to kill Lucifer?

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Frocharocha

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Only way I see John winning is by convincing The Presence to erase him. I doubt that would happen. I'll stick to that theory until someone else can bring up a logical and convincing argument for John.

John already fouled The Presence before. He beat his Omnipresence, and that only proves that The Presence is a being of great power, but it's far from being All Powerful and All Knowing. The only way John is beating Morningstar is by convincing him too get lost and boot hdecide to take a drink on the nearest bar.

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the_red_viper

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#6 the_red_viper  Moderator

@frocharocha: He never fooled The Presence. He somewhat threatened him.

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dondave

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Lucifer

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NoBody134

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@frocharocha: He never fooled The Presence. He somewhat threatened him.

Something that should not be possible in the first place btw

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Jmarshmallow

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@frocharocha: I hate repeating myself on this subject...

HE NEVER "FOULED" the Presence. If the Presence wanted to, he could literally blink him away at an instant.

As for the OP, John only has two shots really: He asks the Presence for help again, or he tricks Lucifer like he does every other demon.

How is he going to do that you ask? Don't ask me, I'm not JohnCon.

Jmarshmallow

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GhostRider2

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#10  Edited By GhostRider2

Morningstar tricks him...

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IheartZombies92--defunct

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@blazinghell: The reason I took away Lucifer's prescience is that it kinda made things a stomp in his favour. If he knows John is gunning for him, he snaps his fingers and John goes bye-bye.

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Rijehu

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Constantine never threatened, nor intimidated, nor tricked the Presence. He offered him a deal from what I understand. And Lucifer wins either way.

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ZeroPlus

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John Constantine...........Loses.

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TheGrayGhost

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Yeah John concocts some elaborately hatched plan to steal Lucifer's powers

And just because it is walking plot device John, let us assume he succeeds

As always, being the arrogant prick that he is, he stops to gloat " Any last wishes......former Prince of Darkness?"

Lucifer speaks for a minute

At the end of this John gouges out his own eyes and commits suicide by shoving his gouged out eyeballs down his throat and choking to death

Lucifer gets up, cleans his suit, and walks away with Sympathy for the Devil playing in the background

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DarkRaiden

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@blazinghell: haha no. John's never faced anyone on Lucifer's level and never done the thing Lucifer's done. Lucifer stomps and is not only more intelligent, but nigh omnipotent.

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JwwProd

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Lucifer.

Though John should not be underestimated.

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RetconCrisis

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To set things straight, he never fooled the Presence. He made a deal with The Presence, and since the Presence has been consistently shown to be a "nice" guy, he gave John the deal.

With that said, since Lucifer has intelligence and trickery almost equal to John, Morningstar should win.

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DarkRaiden

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@blazinghell: Lucifer is above an archangel. He's God's literal Son who has the mind and will of God. He's beaten gods while powerless, he survived a creation destroying explosion without a scratch. He made his own multiverse. FoF is so weak he can't even let John die because he can't fight the Second and Third place in hell. Lucifer had undisputed power and rule in Hell and no one challenged him. Lucifer beat Michael (who has enough Demiurgic power to destroy creation). And he's a master of ALL magic. Again, John has no chance.

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beatboks1

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@frocharocha: John has never beaten the presence, he played his character to his benefit there's a difference. He simply told the presence ( who BTW back then wasn't referred to as that) what he planned in selling his soul to hell and how to avoid what he had planned. He knew that the presence wouldn't let him be the ruler of hell because he would be more dangerous to the free will of man than any hell spawn. All he did was lay his cards on the table and let the presence choose the result. If he wasn't so loving of his creations he wouldn't have done jack for john

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DarkRaiden

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@blazinghell: You're not getting it. Angels, FotF are Universe level, dimension level, Lucifer is ALL of CREATION. All of it. That's HIS OWN MULTIVERSE plus all of God's infinite multiverses/universes. There's a vast difference between their levels. If Lucifer collected souls, and John did that gambit on him, it wouldn't work as Lucifer vastly outclasses everyone not named The Presence and Michael.

Lucifer is omniscient, a master of all magic, and can manipulate any and everything in CREATION. Gabriel is a bug to Lucifer. This is not even close. John's barely beaten Universe level people at best. Lucifer is Omniversal.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@blazinghell: You're not getting it. Angels, FotF are Universe level, dimension level, Lucifer is ALL of CREATION. All of it. That's HIS OWN MULTIVERSE plus all of God's infinite multiverses/universes. There's a vast difference between their levels. If Lucifer collected souls, and John did that gambit on him, it wouldn't work as Lucifer vastly outclasses everyone not named The Presence and Michael.

Lucifer is omniscient, a master of all magic, and can manipulate any and everything in CREATION. Gabriel is a bug to Lucifer. This is not even close. John's barely beaten Universe level people at best. Lucifer is Omniversal.

Ah. I see you took great care of reading everything that I said.

I am starting to see it your way now.

Please teach me more.

Tell me how the event where Morpheus bested him in hell and got out alive to tell the tale never ever happened.

I clearly dreamed it. Silly old me.

Please teach me more.

1. That was before he was an established (solo comic) character. He even looked different.

2. Morpheus is scared of him.

3. Morpheus>>>.Constantine. Not sure how that helps his case.

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Knightly1

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Lucifer is not omniscient, but he's probably as close a character can get in terms of the way the universe works and knowledge on people. He doesn't know everything.

Also, the the scene with lucifer and Morpheus being referred to was well before the start of the series and well before his actual creation.

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darkseid1006

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#28  Edited By darkseid1006

@blazinghell: Lucifer is above an archangel. He's God's literwho has the mind and will of God.. He made his own multiverse.. Lucifer had undisputed power and rule in Hell and no one challenged him. Lucifer beat Michael (who has enough Demiurgic power to destroy creation)...

"God's literal Son" FotF came before Lucifer so he is actually gods son

"He's beaten gods while powerless, he survived a creation destroying explosion without a scratch" yeah everyone knows that John is not going to take Lucifer down with brute force so this is a pointless point

"FoF is so weak he can't even let John die because he can't fight the Second and Third place in hell" ok...wrong maybe you should reread the issue (if you even have) but actually the reason was because after the war between all three lords of hell hells power would literally be cut by two thirds and then hell wouldn't have the strength to stop heaven from taking control of hell which is understandable as he is not strong enough to hold of all of heavens forces with only a third of his.

"And he's a master of ALL magic" again i will mention John will not use his magic full on at Lucifer and will rely on his cunning and trickery

"Again, John has no chance" hummm... yup he does for instance trick the presence or Lucifer or just make a plan and before you say he couldn't yes he could i don't know what but I'm not John Constantine am i?

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@blazinghell: Lucifer is above an archangel. He's God's literwho has the mind and will of God.. He made his own multiverse.. Lucifer had undisputed power and rule in Hell and no one challenged him. Lucifer beat Michael (who has enough Demiurgic power to destroy creation)...

"God's literal Son" FotF came before Lucifer so he is actually gods son

"He's beaten gods while powerless, he survived a creation destroying explosion without a scratch" yeah everyone knows that John is not going to take Lucifer down with brute force so this is a pointless point

"FoF is so weak he can't even let John die because he can't fight the Second and Third place in hell" ok...wrong maybe you should reread the issue (if you even have) but actually the reason was because after the war between all three lords of hell hells power would literally be cut by two thirds and then hell wouldn't have the strength to stop heaven from taking control of hell which is understandable as he is not strong enough to hold of all of heavens forces with only a third of his.

"And he's a master of ALL magic" again i will mention John will not use his magic full on at Lucifer and will rely on his cunning and trickery

"Again, John has no chance" hummm... yup he does for instance trick the presence or Lucifer or just make a plan and before you say he couldn't yes he could i don't know what but I'm not John Constantine am i?

Lujcifer came before creation so no, he came before FotF. Fotf is so weak apparently heaven can take over hell if what? he and the 2nd and 3rd in command fight amongst themselves? Lucifer had no such threats or problems from Heaven and he'd easily wipe them out besides maybe Michael and God.

There's nothing Constantine can do to Lucifer who knows not only more magic than him, but is smarter, more powerful and just overall better. If they switched positions and John had the power Lucifer had, Lucifer would STILL win in a stomp. It's that bad.

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darkseid1006

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@darkraiden said:

@darkseid1006 said:

@darkraiden said:

@blazinghell: Lucifer is above an archangel. He's God's literwho has the mind and will of God.. He made his own multiverse.. Lucifer had undisputed power and rule in Hell and no one challenged him. Lucifer beat Michael (who has enough Demiurgic power to destroy creation)...

"God's literal Son" FotF came before Lucifer so he is actually gods son

"He's beaten gods while powerless, he survived a creation destroying explosion without a scratch" yeah everyone knows that John is not going to take Lucifer down with brute force so this is a pointless point

"FoF is so weak he can't even let John die because he can't fight the Second and Third place in hell" ok...wrong maybe you should reread the issue (if you even have) but actually the reason was because after the war between all three lords of hell hells power would literally be cut by two thirds and then hell wouldn't have the strength to stop heaven from taking control of hell which is understandable as he is not strong enough to hold of all of heavens forces with only a third of his.

"And he's a master of ALL magic" again i will mention John will not use his magic full on at Lucifer and will rely on his cunning and trickery

"Again, John has no chance" hummm... yup he does for instance trick the presence or Lucifer or just make a plan and before you say he couldn't yes he could i don't know what but I'm not John Constantine am i?

Lujcifer came before creation so no, he came before FotF. Fotf is so weak apparently heaven can take over hell if what? he and the 2nd and 3rd in command fight amongst themselves? Lucifer had no such threats or problems from Heaven and he'd easily wipe them out besides maybe Michael and God.

There's nothing Constantine can do to Lucifer who knows not only more magic than him, but is smarter, more powerful and just overall better. If they switched positions and John had the power Lucifer had, Lucifer would STILL win in a stomp. It's that bad.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHA.

Please. Teach us more. It is clear that you have read HB extensively.

I hunger for your knowledge.

hahahahahahahahhahahahah
oh god... Lucifer smarter than John Constantine... :X hahahahahaha if John had Lucifers power Lucifer wins in a stomp...NO
also the name FOTF first of the fallen he was before Lucifer in the comic continuity he was already there when Lucifer was banished and took over hell he was the FIRST OF THE FALLEN.

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DarkRaiden

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@blazinghell said:

@darkraiden said:

@darkseid1006 said:

@darkraiden said:

@blazinghell: Lucifer is above an archangel. He's God's literwho has the mind and will of God.. He made his own multiverse.. Lucifer had undisputed power and rule in Hell and no one challenged him. Lucifer beat Michael (who has enough Demiurgic power to destroy creation)...

"God's literal Son" FotF came before Lucifer so he is actually gods son

"He's beaten gods while powerless, he survived a creation destroying explosion without a scratch" yeah everyone knows that John is not going to take Lucifer down with brute force so this is a pointless point

"FoF is so weak he can't even let John die because he can't fight the Second and Third place in hell" ok...wrong maybe you should reread the issue (if you even have) but actually the reason was because after the war between all three lords of hell hells power would literally be cut by two thirds and then hell wouldn't have the strength to stop heaven from taking control of hell which is understandable as he is not strong enough to hold of all of heavens forces with only a third of his.

"And he's a master of ALL magic" again i will mention John will not use his magic full on at Lucifer and will rely on his cunning and trickery

"Again, John has no chance" hummm... yup he does for instance trick the presence or Lucifer or just make a plan and before you say he couldn't yes he could i don't know what but I'm not John Constantine am i?

Lujcifer came before creation so no, he came before FotF. Fotf is so weak apparently heaven can take over hell if what? he and the 2nd and 3rd in command fight amongst themselves? Lucifer had no such threats or problems from Heaven and he'd easily wipe them out besides maybe Michael and God.

There's nothing Constantine can do to Lucifer who knows not only more magic than him, but is smarter, more powerful and just overall better. If they switched positions and John had the power Lucifer had, Lucifer would STILL win in a stomp. It's that bad.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAAHA.

Please. Teach us more. It is clear that you have read HB extensively.

I hunger for your knowledge.

hahahahahahahahhahahahah

oh god... Lucifer smarter than John Constantine... :X hahahahahaha if John had Lucifers power Lucifer wins in a stomp...NO

also the name FOTF first of the fallen he was before Lucifer in the comic continuity he was already there when Lucifer was banished and took over hell he was the FIRST OF THE FALLEN.

But that was retconned. Not sure what you don't get about that.

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xjasda

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One thing I haven't scene mentioned is that although Lucifer is one of the most powerful beings in the vertigo universe,he stingily follows and abides by a set of rules that he just doesn't break(could,but doesn't).Constatine on the other hand is an opportunist who has no such honor and wouldn't hesitate to this trait of Lucifers' against him.So yeah,John has a shot,small as it may be, of besting the ex-king of Hell.

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dawnone

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#34  Edited By dawnone

Well seeing as how lucifer became nigh omniscient at the end of the series he wins jhon with prep did beat gabriel though who's omnipresence so jhon puts up a fight

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anurag_50

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They go out to have some discussion on the Presence's hypocrisy.

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Nite_Nite

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Reading the current JC series hasn't placed John anywhere near Lucifer, that is if John is pretty much the same as he was in his classic HB series.

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Reaperofevil

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the thing is lucifer is basically a john constantine with powers and john is a depowered lucifer

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bdelloidgrain2

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John could have 10000 years of prep. Lucifer is just way too powerful.

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TonyStark6999

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@zeroplus said:

John Constantine...........Loses.

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yolo2546

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Erm, may I point out that he strong-armed the presence by threatening to rule hell. I mean if the presence wants Lucifer back in hell, it clearly sees Constantine as a winner

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ChaosHerc

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Lucifer wins

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xearesay

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#42  Edited By xearesay

If you give him a lot of prep time he could probably do something. Constantine isn't really a fighter. He's good at using some type of trick or ability that lets him get out of his opponents sphere of harm or negate them in some manner. He can't actually beat them in a direct confrontation though.

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deactivated-5f5be9e305ddd

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john can do it and mayb pull a trick other than that he straight up loses every round