John Constantine Vs Dr. Doom

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Needlebay

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#1  Edited By Needlebay

Doom is the best prepster in Marvel. Or at least in the top 2. Consantine is #1 in DC. Behind Lucifer, though. Anyway, I think this is a cool matchup. EQUAL prep. Each get a week. Who wins?

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nefarious

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#2  Edited By nefarious

Doom rivals Thanos in preparation. 
 
He wins.

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jojjimbo

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#3  Edited By jojjimbo

I say Doom.

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Needlebay

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#4  Edited By Needlebay

Constanine has screwed over the Devil and Swamp Thing. He's no pushover.

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Mattersuit

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#5  Edited By Mattersuit

Constantine really comes into his own making rapid plans at the last minute like most conmen. That said, though, his planning is pretty sound. Like the time he managed to trick the First of the Fallen into curing his lung cancer.

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Billy Batson

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#6  Edited By Billy Batson

Constantine.
BB

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beatboks1

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#7  Edited By beatboks1

Constantine. he's beaten the first of the fallen about 5 times, beaten Gabriel (who went well against Lucifer) and manipulated the Presence himself with minimal Prep. The bottom line he's already prepped for most things before he knows he needs to be (he keeps his favors and back up plans ready for what ever may arrise)

@Nefarious said:

Doom rivals Thanos in preparation. He wins.

In the Constantine V Thanos with a years prep battle thread Thanos went down hard (2 votes to many IIRC)

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Saren

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#8  Edited By Saren

@Billy Batson said:

Constantine.
BB

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The_Soverighn

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#9  Edited By The_Soverighn

Constantine if He Really Tries

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Strider1992

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#10  Edited By Strider1992

Gotta say Constantine.

As the prep is equal and an unspecified amount of time it could be only a short amount of prep (this is Constantine's expert field. Making spur of the moment plans without much time is his element) or it could be a longer amount of time which would make it slightly harder for John but he still has access to an insane amount of occult objects. In a large amount of time he could do any number of things to win (trick daemons etc.. into killing Doom for him).

Basically the shorter the amount of time the easier it will be for Constantine to win. The longer it gets drawn out the harder it'll be but I think he could come up with a LOT of ideas during that kind of time as well. Its just less likely he'll win.

EDIT: Just noticed it OP said a weeks prep. Honestly this could go either way. I'm going to say Constantine still but Doom is in with a very good shot.

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Jayfournines

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#11  Edited By Jayfournines

Amazing matchup really, I give it to Doom though. Constantine is an amazing prepper and sorcerer, but Doom's intellect is vast superior and will unleash many more things than just spells.

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deactivated-607949e25bdb6

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Constantine for feats, but an overall look at what they have going for them I would say Doom.

Magic + Science + Resources + Time = Unstoppable (or very difficult for Constantine).

I say that they decide not to fight and take over both their respective universes.

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nickzambuto

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#13  Edited By nickzambuto

Constantine is an admirable strategist and sorcerer, but with 1 week of prep, I don't think he can compete with whatever death machine Doom invents.

You say Constantine tricked Lucifer? I say Doom stole the power of Galactus.

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Rusty_Irons

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#14  Edited By Rusty_Irons

Dr Doom.

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The_Soverighn

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#15  Edited By The_Soverighn

@nickzambuto: Galactus > Lucifer ?

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nickzambuto

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#16  Edited By nickzambuto

@The_Soverighn said:

@nickzambuto: Galactus > Lucifer ?

Stealing the power of > tricking

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TDK_1997

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#17  Edited By TDK_1997

Constantine.

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Onemoreposter

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#18  Edited By Onemoreposter

Isn't John's "power" something like he happens to be the luckiest bastard in the universe? I can see Doom's best laid plans falling apart around Constantine.

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SpectresWrath01

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#19  Edited By SpectresWrath01

@beatboks1 said:

Constantine. he's beaten the first of the fallen about 5 times, beaten Gabriel (who went well against Lucifer) and manipulated the Presence himself with minimal Prep. The bottom line he's already prepped for most things before he knows he needs to be (he keeps his favors and back up plans ready for what ever may arrise)

@Nefarious said:

Doom rivals Thanos in preparation. He wins.

In the Constantine V Thanos with a years prep battle thread Thanos went down hard (2 votes to many IIRC)

When did Constantine beat the first of the fallen? When did he beat Gabriel? And do you know when which comics? I find this interesting if you can fill me in that would be great! Thanks alot!

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morpheus_

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#20  Edited By morpheus_  Moderator
What is everyone babbling about Constantine tricking Lucifer? They haven't even met.
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god_spawn

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#21  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

Kianu played in that awesome Constantine movie, he wins by default.

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The Lobster

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#22  Edited By The Lobster

Doom's arrogance is his ultimate weakness. Constantine is arrogant too but he at least knows he's arrogant. 
 
Constantine wins this one. He's tricked the devil himself. Doom's got nothing on the con man skills of Constantine.

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HowTerribleIsThat

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@SpectresWrath01 said:

@beatboks1 said:

Constantine. he's beaten the first of the fallen about 5 times, beaten Gabriel (who went well against Lucifer) and manipulated the Presence himself with minimal Prep. The bottom line he's already prepped for most things before he knows he needs to be (he keeps his favors and back up plans ready for what ever may arrise)

@Nefarious said:

Doom rivals Thanos in preparation. He wins.

In the Constantine V Thanos with a years prep battle thread Thanos went down hard (2 votes to many IIRC)

When did Constantine beat the first of the fallen? When did he beat Gabriel? And do you know when which comics? I find this interesting if you can fill me in that would be great! Thanks alot!

I'm only on issue 94 so I can't tell you about every time that he has beaten the First and Gabriel, but this is what's happened so far.

One of John's friends had a well of holy water that he used to make the best beer imaginable, this same friend was dying of liver failure and had a deal with the first that would result in the first taking his soul with the caveat that the First would have to take his soul on the day that he dies. He dies five minutes before midnight and John gets the First to drink some of the beer which is of course holy water, this stops the First from taking the guy's soul before midnight. That was the first defeat. The First then stakes a claim to John's soul (I don't understand how) and since John is dying of lung cancer at this point, he doesn't expect to wait long. So John goes and makes deals with the Second and the Third for his soul so that each of the three thinks that they have a claim to John's soul and none of them know that the other two have a claim. Then John slashes his wrists and all three show up and start arguing over his soul. They realise that if John dies then they will be compelled to go to war with each other, this would weaken Hell and allow Heaven to enslave everyone, so they decide to treat his cancer. Thus John defeats the first for a second time. Then a succubus called Ellie escaped from Hell and went to John for protection. He inscribed a ward onto her soul which would hide her from the the First and so he defeated the First for a third time.

Now John realises that the First will still be after him so he hatches a plan to defeat the First again, however I'm not sure how much of his next victory was in the plan and how much was pure luck. He gets Ellie to seduce Gabriel and take Gabriel's heart. As a result Gabriel falls from grace and becomes a mortal. Meanwhile the First finds out that while the Second and Third are Devils, he is not a devil as he was never an angel and this gives him what he needs to defeat the other two fallen and thus he finally has the sole claim to John's soul. Now at this point Ellie was disguised as that girl who John accidentally sent to hell in Nottingham and on John's orders was whispering into the First's ear so I think that John figured out the First wasn't a devil and so the First only found out because John wanted him to. I don't think this was explicitly stated. Regardless, Ellie then took the essenses of the other two fallen into her possession and a while later stabbed the First with the essenses in the back when the First was talking to John. As a result the First becomes a mortal man. And that was the fourth victory for John.

So at this point, John has defeated the First four times and Gabriel once.

Edit: To be clear, even though Lucifer was the first angel to fall and the second being to fall, he isn't the Second or the Third, I'm not sure why. Presumably if I had ever read a comic involving Lucifer I would know.

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beatboks1

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#24  Edited By beatboks1

@Morpheus_ said:

What is everyone babbling about Constantine tricking Lucifer? They haven't even met.

I think someone referred to the "Devil", probably meaning FOF ( reasonable substitution I suppose) and someone else just assumed that meant Lucifer.

@SpectresWrath01 said:

@beatboks1 said:

Constantine. he's beaten the first of the fallen about 5 times, beaten Gabriel (who went well against Lucifer) and manipulated the Presence himself with minimal Prep. The bottom line he's already prepped for most things before he knows he needs to be (he keeps his favors and back up plans ready for what ever may arrise)

@Nefarious said:

Doom rivals Thanos in preparation. He wins.

In the Constantine V Thanos with a years prep battle thread Thanos went down hard (2 votes to many IIRC)

When did Constantine beat the first of the fallen? When did he beat Gabriel? And do you know when which comics? I find this interesting if you can fill me in that would be great! Thanks alot!

OK

1. After finding out he was dying in the ark dangerous habits (#41 IIRC) he went to friends to see if any had a magic cure for his caner. One of those friends was a guy who had a home in Ireland near a spring blessed by St Patrick. That friend had a passion for alcohol and had sold his soul to the FOF in exchange for the best liquor collection possible. He thought he'd been smart an included a clause in his contract that FOF had to claim his soul by midnight. The friend had used a spell to turn the holly spring into the best beer possible. He and John were drinking from the spring when he died. FOF came to collect his soul and Joh said why not have a drink with me you've got an hour before you have to collect. FOF having great respect for John did just that. When he got up to collect the soul at 11.58 John blew out the cnadles leaving FOF collapsed on the ground in agony unable to move with a gut full of holy water. he saved his friends soul.

2. FOF after 1 had a real hatred for John and wanted nothing more than to have his soul to torture. As John had already committed suicide (a failed attempt) he was bound for Hell and FOF had the right to his soul by "right of insult. Knowing he was dying he called the other two lords of Hell and sold his soul to them both and then slit his rists. All three came to claim his soul at which he told them that by their own laws they had to fight for his soul which would be a war only the presence would win. They would have to hela him or their kingdom would be gone. FOF healed him but only bay freaking and renitting every bone and organ in his body causing as much pain as possible. Issues 44/5 I think.

3. After that FOF had an even greater hatred for John and wanted him even more. John using something he had over a succubus used her to hide himself mystically from all the big players. he set up Gabriel for a fall by making using the succubus to tempt Gabriel. Once Gabriel had fallen he offered him his protection in exchange for his heart. Using that and a mystical Blade he once again defeated the FOF. IIRC he killed him meaning that FOF was made mortal (exact details of that one I'm a little foggy on ATM).

4. In the Rake at the gates ark (Late 70's 80's IIRC) he again defeated FOF as a mortal in Greece. This time his killing him made him make into his powerful self. Since he had already by this point beaten him more than 3 times FOF no longer had a claim on his soul.

5. Finally another insult (though more a besting of a lower demon) he grafted the darker parts of his soul to the soul of another and used him to set up a demon who though he was exchanging all the souls he had ever taken for that of John the most hated of the FOF. It was this demons hope that in giving FOF the soul of John he would be so well rewarded that the power he would gain would be much greater than that lost. John of course sticks it to FOF again and rubs salt in the wound. The act of doing this actually leaves him with a clean soul now able to enter heaven (if he chooses the right paths form her on)

@Morpheus_: Did I miss anything??

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XiiX

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#25  Edited By XiiX

Probably Constantine.

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I_am_Warlock

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#26  Edited By I_am_Warlock

Dr. Doom

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Lone_Wolf_and_Cub

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Obviously Doom.

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Deadgod

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#28  Edited By Deadgod

Constantine

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DocFatalis

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#29  Edited By DocFatalis

It's a difficult one, but I'll go with Constantine because he seems somehow more constant in the scam business. Sometimes even Doom rushes foolishly head on. It's really rare in the case of Con John, even in the heat of the moment.

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NeonGameWave

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#30  Edited By NeonGameWave

This is a hard one but I`m going with Constantine.

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Target_X

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#31  Edited By Target_X

Doom is a genius, but Constantine manipulates people in his sleep. I say Constantine wins.

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Needlebay

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#32  Edited By Needlebay

DCnU Constantine MIGHT be following in the same vein as Vertigo's. For one, he's keeping tabs on EVERY hero and villain on DC's earth or at least all the main ones. He has notes about all of them, which is in the House of Mystery.

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PhantomSpells

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constantine all he has to do is make docter doom belive he is in hell and doc is down

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robertloucksjr

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#34  Edited By robertloucksjr

Doom. Even if you think Constantine has the prep advantage, and I don't think he does, the power/resource differential is vast.

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ImBoredLetsDebate

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Doom's arrogance is his ultimate weakness. Constantine is arrogant too but he at least knows he's arrogant.

Constantine wins this one. He's tricked the devil himself. Doom's got nothing on the con man skills of Constantine.

And Doom has tricked The Beyonder. The Beyonder > the devil

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Needlebay

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Constantine got the upperhand on the Presence. Presence>Beyonder.

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rolldestroyer

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Constantine got the upperhand on the Presence. Presence>Beyonder.

when? what issue?

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XxGin

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Constantine convinced the presence to not not send him to hell nuff said. By the way for the people who said Doom wins

You haven't read Hellblazer, haven't you?

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IheartZombies92--defunct

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Gotta say Constantine.

As the prep is equal and an unspecified amount of time it could be only a short amount of prep (this is Constantine's expert field. Making spur of the moment plans without much time is his element) or it could be a longer amount of time which would make it slightly harder for John but he still has access to an insane amount of occult objects. In a large amount of time he could do any number of things to win (trick daemons etc.. into killing Doom for him).

Basically the shorter the amount of time the easier it will be for Constantine to win. The longer it gets drawn out the harder it'll be but I think he could come up with a LOT of ideas during that kind of time as well. Its just less likely he'll win.

EDIT: Just noticed it OP said a weeks prep. Honestly this could go either way. I'm going to say Constantine still but Doom is in with a very good shot.

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Scoop316

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John Constantine. Dr. Doom, for all his feats, could still learn a thing or two from John.

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the_red_viper

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#41 the_red_viper  Moderator

Constantine.

The main advantage he has over Doom is that he's a cheap, dirty, evil a$$hole and Doom is waaaay too arrogant and proud to beat him. If you wanna beat JonCon you have to be 1. rediculously powerful, which Doom is, and 2. willing to play dirty, which Doom isn't.

tl;dr Doom is not dirty enough to beat John.

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Baron_von_Santa

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#42  Edited By Baron_von_Santa

more prep time for doom, then he might win

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MarlboroMan

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#43  Edited By MarlboroMan

tricking them to do something extremely small is not comperable with stealing all their might and power, Constantine tricked,manipulated some mass beings but i mean c'mon convincing Presence to not go to hell is just not really something important its Presence he doesn't give a damn who goes to hell or not especially not a mere mortal

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MarlboroMan

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By the way i haven't read that much from the Constantine so correct me if i am wrong about my knowledge about him

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Auction_Sniper

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#45  Edited By Auction_Sniper

DD may edge it out, barely.

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Bainghost

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Blade/Eric Brooks vs John Constantine would be more interesting

back to the topic,Dr.Doomwins

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anurag_50

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#47  Edited By anurag_50

John wins.

Unlike most comic book magicians, Constantine rarely uses magical spells, unless he has to, especially in combat. Constantine faces most of his challenges relying primarily on his cunning, quick-thinking during fights, vast knowledge of the occult, manipulation of opponents and allies, and an extensive list of contacts. These skills are often more useful than his magical ones. He is known to have deceived many of the most powerful beings in the universe, such as The First of the Fallen[23] and God. In the DC universe, John managed to recruit Batman and Superman through his own manipulation.[43] He is considered by many as being the world's greatest con man.[54] Constantine is also one of a few people knowing all the routes to Heaven, Hell, and the afterlife, which he uses to escape and teleport without the danger of being chased by enemies.[55] In the graphic novel Pandemonium, he once allowed himself to be killed, but later resurrects himself by exiting the afterlife.

As a sorcerer, Constantine is armed with the knowledge of many magical spells, rituals, and curses, such as evocation, necromancy,illusions, invisibility,[56] and can even use magic to time travel.[57] He also has a wide range of protection magic such as sigils andmagic circles that can protect him from both physical[58] and supernatural attacks. But John's most signature ability is synchronicitywave traveling, which is an instinctual supernatural ability for Constantine to make his own luck. This has led John to uncanny luck at games of chance, the ability to avoid and escape harm, meet the right kind of ally to help prevent or stop an apocalyptic event from happening, and reshape the battle he's fighting to his own accord.[25] Constantine is also highly resistant to many psychic attacks such as telepathy, possessions, and mind control. He can even use magic to block off omnipresence, seen where he once used sigils to hide himself from The First of the Fallen.[59] By the New 52, other magical powers such as mild teleportation,[60][61] counter spells, electrokineses,[62]telekinesis,[63] and immobilisation[63] have been added.

Aside from sorcery, Constantine has also exhibited considerable mastery in "stage magic skills"—hypnosis, sleight of hand, pick pocketing, and escapology. John also carries with him arsenal of powerful magical artifacts to aid him in battle, such as The House of Mystery which also serves as his transportation to different realms of the universe, and his trademark trench coat that also possesses powerful demonic powers.[64] Because of tricking the lords of hell into curing his lung cancer, he is perpetually in good health and physicality ever since. Constantine's blood is demonically tainted, initially by a blood transfusion from the demon Nergal, and later by sex with a succubus. His blood has been shown to have healing properties, and is noted to have an age-managing effect.[27] It also acted as a defense mechanism when attacked by the King of the Vampires,[65] as it is highly corrosive and poisonous. Constantine's skills in unarmed combat varies depending on the writer. Some portrays him as a poor physical fighter, while others as a capable hand-to-hand combatant. However, he has occasionally won fights, either by using magical weapons, by fighting dirty,[66] or by quick-thinking.[67]

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Iragexcudder

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#48  Edited By Iragexcudder

John wins no doubt

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#49  Edited By BoringPerson

Never bet against the Laughing Magician.

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Simon_the_digger

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John.