Joffrey Baratheon (Hill) vs. Ramsay Bolton (Snow)

Battle of the bastards, who will win?

Both of these men are sick and rely on intimidation even though both are relative weaklings.

Round 1 - Book Versions

Round 2 - TV Versions

Round 3 - Combined Versions

In my opinion round 3 is the interesting fight as the other two seem pretty straight forward. But I would like to see what you guys think.

1. Joffrey is formally trained, Ramsay isn't. He thought he could beat Robb and Stannis (obviously he'd get stomped by both) and wouldn't hesitate to kill if he's armed, despite being outclassed physically. Joffrey could lose if he panicks and stumbles, but if he thinks he can win the entire time, he likely could.

2. Ramsay stomps. It's stupid writing but he dived headfirst into some of the supposedly "best killers in the Iron Islands" while half-naked, Joffrey got disarmed by Arya.

3. Ramsay for reasons in 2.

Also, wouldn't Joffrey be a Waters, he was born in King's Landing?

@fatherchaos: I agree on one and two. The third round is the question for me as in the books Joffrey was trained with a sword and good enough to at least challenge Robb (albeit in a losing effort), has Ramsay shown me enough on the show to be able to beat a trained swordsman? That's the real question.

He might possibly be a Waters, but I like to think of him as a Hill since he's the bastard of two from the Westerlands. I feel the same way about Gentry, I like Gentry Storm much more than Gentry Waters.

i havent read the books so i cant really say for rd 1 & 3 but joffrey gets beat in rd 2

@cregan_stark: In his fight against the Ironborn, Ramsay was fighting more than one opponent at once. Even "above average" swordsmen will lose hard if they fight multiple opponents, even if they'd stomp them individually. You could chalk it up to PIS as to how Ramsay could stomp them like he's Jaime Lannister, but Joffrey would have definitely died in that situation, book or show version.

@98115: in the books Joffrey is slightly below someone like Robb Stark in skill with a sword. They fight for a bit (in the practice yard) at the start of the series with Robb coming out on top. Ramsay in the books has absolutely no skill with a sword, Roose comments that Ramsay looks like a butcher trying to chop away at meat.

@fatherchaos: definitely PIS and honestly the whole thing makes no sense seeing how Asha and her men made it out and Ramsay made it out alive, how did no one lose the fight?

I might add that book Asha would curbstomp Ramsay

It's not really fair to say that Joffrey is weak, he's just not very distinguished. Being a well-trained fighter and having growing up training and eating right, as well as being fairly big and having the genetics of the Lannisters (Jaime) should place him above average.

@alphaq: he's a major weakling on the show and a coward to boot. I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying he's below Robb who isnt great by any means

@cregan_stark Oh yeah, in the show he's a pushover. I was just going by the books.

Yeah this