JLA and X-Men VS. Death (Final Destination).

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#1 Posted by dho (6 posts) - - Show Bio

I know Death isn't exactly a comic book villain, but I thought this would be interesting.

Anyway, this would be the scenario: After an intense battle, both the X-Men and JLA narrowly survive with their lives. However, having felt "cheated" , a very bitter and vengeful DEATH comes after each and every one of the JLA members and X-Men. This is Death from the movie, "Final Destination", which is shapeless and never really reveals itself.

Questions: Rank from easiest kill for Death to the most difficult (or impossible): Which member of JLA and/or X-Men would Death have the easiest time killing? Which hero or heroines would actually survive the unseen Grim Reaper (and even have a chance of... defeating it?).

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#2 Posted by deactivated-5d39a38bf2071 (1018 posts) - - Show Bio

Death

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#3 Posted by g2_ (12779 posts) - - Show Bio

Death.

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#4 Posted by PyroFN (7194 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you have a specific team in mind or are you thinking every X-Man who has been on the team?

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#5 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Death.

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#6 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is literally immune to whatever death throws at him then you have the Spectre since he's part of the Justice Society, seriously what is death going to do to superman throw a bus at him try to hit him with a roller coaster seriously death only kills squishy humans not someone who has godlike durability, there are also characters like Thor who is immune from being hit by anything death throws at him and Hulk would just get angry and keep Bruce alive.

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#7 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman is literally immune to whatever death throws at him then you have the Spectre since he's part of the Justice Society, seriously what is death going to do to superman throw a bus at him try to hit him with a roller coaster seriously death only kills squishy humans not someone who has godlike durability, there are also characters like Thor who is immune from being hit by anything death throws at him and Hulk would just get angry and keep Bruce alive.

Doesn't really matter how you die. If you can die, and do, Death wins by default. To beat Death, you need to actually work against it by either attaining immortality, resurrection abilities, or nullifying the concept of Death itself (assuming it is a concept and not a being).

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#8 Edited by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

That is a HUGE GINORMOUS NLF if it's best feat is killing MUNDANE HUMANS that is it's best feat so death can kill LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR? what has death done that say it can compete with superman oh no Clark watch out a bus is going to hit you oh noooooo a train and a mower blade superman is literally immune to whatever death does. This is why i hate horror movie fans they give them feats that they never shown to have.

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#9 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

That is a HUGE GINORMOUS NLF if it's best feat is killing MUNDANE HUMANS that is it's best feat so death can kill LUCIFER MORNINGSTAR? what has death done that say it can compete with superman oh no Clark watch out a bus is going to hit you oh noooooo a train and a mower blade superman is literally immune to whatever death does. This is why i hate horror movie fans they give them feats that they never shown to have.

Not really. If you die by old age or disease, Death has technically won. It doesn't need to make your death unnatural or violent (and in fact, a good number of deaths in the film are remarkably mundane). Death is literally a force of nature, not a being, though it does seem to have a sadistic sense of humor at times. Death is literally, well, death. The only thing that movies have done is given Death some characterization, in as much as you can characterize a force of nature.

What is an NLF is suggesting that Lucifer Morningstar cannot die at all under any circumstances, which is patently false. If he can die, and does, Death wins.

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#10 Edited by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

yare yare daze death has no feats of killing anything other than mundane humans, death has never i repeat NEVER killed anyone in the movies via old age or disease they all died via gruesome death via items around them i repeat myself show me feats of them killing people with durability like Superman then i'll concede oh wait you can't because it's best feats is killing HUMANS. Also HAHAHAHA Lucifer is so powerful he can literally destroy MULTIVERSES with a thought and he literally told death herself that she had no hold on him.

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#11 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

yare yare daze death has no feats of killing anything other than mundane humans, death has never i repeat NEVER killed anyone in the movies via old age or disease they all died via gruesome death via items around them i repeat myself show me feats of them killing people with durability like Superman then i'll concede oh wait you can't because it's best feats is killing HUMANS.

Any form of death is a victory for Death. Death is once again, not a character with tangible "feats". It is simply the expiration of life. I reiterate that Death doesn't actually need to kill anyone unnaturally and is content with simply waiting you out. It'll just kill the next schmuck on its list to balance its books in the meanwhile. To say that Death has never killed anyone by old age or disease is patently false, since none of the characters in the movie are immortal or otherwise incapable of dying. If someone in the universe of the movies has died by old age and disease (which is definitive), then Death has done its job.

Since Superman has actually died before, Death has already won. The only real ambiguity is the parameters of what constitutes a "victory" for Death in the context of this "battle". Does Death lose of it fails to kill a character within a certain time limit? Does Death win if it can kill a character with resurrection abilities even once (with any further resurrections afterwards being irrelevant)? Or does it need to actually find a way to nullify that character's ability (or kill him enough times) so he cannot resurrect?

Unless you can prove that these characters are completely incapable of dying in any way or finding a way to make themselves incapable of dying, then Death still automatically wins.

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#12 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

What don't Lucifer being above death don't you understand LUCIFER IS ABOVE DEATH Lucifer won't allow anyone to kill him unless HE WANTS TO. death has no feats other than killing MUDANE weak no durability feat humans.

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#13 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio
@deadannoy said:

What don't Lucifer being above death don't you understand LUCIFER IS ABOVE DEATH Lucifer won't allow anyone to kill him unless HE WANTS TO. death has no feats other than killing MUDANE weak no durability feat humans.

I perfectly understand that Lucifer is not above Death and capable of dying (which in and of itself means you can't be above Death), and therefore Death wins by default. Because no parameters were posted for the battle which enable Death to lose, short of being pitted against a character that cannot die at all or can erase the idea of Death, that's the working assumption. Death is not a character with "feats", it's simply the fact that life can end and expire. I don't see what part of that you don't understand.

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#14 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus Christ almighty you are severely overestimating Final Destination death it has literally no feats on par with Lucifer does death destroy multiverses no does it kill beings like Lucifer no just because it's death doesn't mean anything if it's best feat is killing slow mundane humans Beyonder has killed death and he's leagues above featless nlf FD death.

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#15 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Jesus Christ almighty you are severely overestimating Final Destination death it has literally no feats on par with Lucifer does death destroy multiverses no does it kill beings like Lucifer no just because it's death doesn't mean anything if it's best feat is killing slow mundane humans Beyonder has killed death and he's leagues above featless nlf FD death.

Actually, you are severely underestimating the concept of Death. Being able to die inherently means you are not above Death, and Lucifer being able to die means that Death wins by default. Death is simply the expiration of life. That's it. In the absence of parameters to specify a loss for Death in this "battle", we simply assume that it goes on indefinitely and only ends when either a character dies (in which case Death wins) or makes it completely impossible for them to die (in which case that character wins).

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#16 Edited by LPercepts (699 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaperdewpider: Your arguments are completely sound. Death is death, so the mere capability of dying means that it wins, barring anything in an OP post to define a loss for it (or any actual parameters). This is, however, the pitfall of putting a force of nature in a battle scenario. You need to really define how it can "lose" here, otherwise it wins if short of the opponent being some high level conceptual or reality manipulator.

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#17 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman can we close this thread this is leading to a flamewar.

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#18 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy: Disagreeing on definitions because the rules and parameters of a battle are vague or even who or what exactly one of the combatants are, does not constitute a "flame war".

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#19 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@lpercepts: Thank you! Finally, a response that makes sense and gets at what I am saying.

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#20 Posted by LPercepts (699 posts) - - Show Bio

@lpercepts: Thank you! Finally, a response that makes sense and gets at what I am saying.

Well, this thread doesn't seem to have been very well thought out to begin with, since it doesn't properly define what constitutes "Death" the entity (if we can even call it that). Does "Death" encompass the mere act of dying or being able to? Or do we treat it as a "character" with "feats"? And if the latter, do we restrict it to FD? Or any notion of someone dying in all involved franchises in the battle? Clarification was much needed, as well as, as you say, a way for Death to "lose" in a battle scenario. Because, as you have mentioned, FD runs on the notion that you will die eventually anyway. The thing that the movies run on is the fact that these character just don't want to die at that particular point in time, either because they are young and have their lives going for them, aren't "ready" to leave this life yet, or some other factor. Of course, Death doesn't care about any of this, you die when it says you do.

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#21 Posted by LPercepts (699 posts) - - Show Bio

I just realized I haven't given my opinion on the battle itself. Death wins handily, if my previous comments weren't already any indication of such.

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#22 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Is death multiversal no does death kill beings as powerful as Lucifer BLOODY Morningstar no death has no feat just because it's death doesn't mean anything when in comicbook death has died Beyonder has killed death, not even Molecule Man could kill a flower when death doesn't exist, they're are characters so above death it's not even funny.

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#23 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Is death multiversal no does death kill beings as powerful as Lucifer BLOODY Morningstar no death has no feat just because it's death doesn't mean anything when in comicbook death has died Beyonder has killed death, not even Molecule Man could kill a flower when death doesn't exist, they're are characters so above death it's not even funny.

If you can die, you are inherently not above Death. So Death wins by default unless there are actual rules in a battle involving it or a character literally cannot die either due to their abilities or by some sort of design like being in a place where death is impossible or not allowed.

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#24 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Medaka is above death, Lucifer is above death, Living Tribunal is above death there are characters who can literally warp reality where death doesn't exist period because death has no feats of resisting being warped out of existence.

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#25 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

In as much as Death is a "character" with a "personality", it does appear to have some complexity addiction, since it goes out of its way to kill people by improbable means that still at least sound plausible rather than making someone just simply drop dead with no explanation (which I don't doubt it can do).

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#26 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

Medaka is above death, Lucifer is above death, Living Tribunal is above death there are characters who can literally warp reality where death doesn't exist period because death has no feats of resisting being warped out of existence.

Except all of those characters you listed can die, so they are not above Death inherently. And Medaka lost her powers after the series anyway, so she is far from being above Death. I'm not doubting that characters can warp reality to prevent themselves from dying, but if their existence is still ended in some way, they still "die" anyway, so death can't really be warped out of existence per se. At this point, though, you are listing characters that do not even come from JLA or the X-Men (as per the OP post), so they are irrelevant to this "battle".

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#27 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Yet you keep saying my characters would lose to this featless death it has no feat except killing MUDANE humans i already said superman survives period because nothing death does would even tickle superman death has no ways to kill superrman period what is it going to do hit him with a truck maybe a rollercoaster, oh maybe he would drop a safe oh think of the possibilities that would all fail.

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#28 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

Yet you keep saying my characters would lose to this featless death it has no feat except killing MUDANE humans i already said superman survives period because nothing death does would even tickle superman death has no ways to kill superrman period what is it going to do hit him with a truck maybe a rollercoaster, oh maybe he would drop a safe oh think of the possibilities that would all fail.

I am saying that Death wins this battle because none of the characters that qualify as opponents against it (JLA and X-Men) in this battle are immortals or otherwise absolutely cannot die. You're the one derailing the topic and beinging in characters that have nothing to do with the battle itself.

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#29 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok Cosmic Armor superman vs death go. who would win will death kill cas or will cas decimate this featless death, because i watched the entire series and death has done nothing impressive except hit people with trucks and other man made objects and kills regular squishy humans.

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#30 Posted by LPercepts (699 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaperdewpider: Honestly, if someone needs to being in outside context characters or concepts to even have a point or a leg to stand on to argue for something, it's best not to take them seriously. You can use some outside context things to substantiate your point, but it those things are wholly your point, then they're just moving the goalposts arbitrarily and making up stuff that has nothing to do with the battle itself.

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#31 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

Ok Cosmic Armor superman vs death go. who would win will death kill cas or will cas decimate this featless death, because i watched the entire series and death has done nothing impressive except hit people with trucks and other man made objects and kills regular squishy humans.

Has Superman ever worn Cosmic Armor in any sort of capacity as part of the JLA? Doesn't look like it. So this is an irrelevant point. Once again, it still looks like you are bring in outside context stuff just for the sake of arguing with any substantive point. Using the JLA implies that these characters act in their capacity as part of the JLA, and not independent actors. This is akin to using an outlier feat since Superman isn't anywhere near as strong inherently and on average.

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#32 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

I Said who do you think would win Cosmic armor superman or death to see if you think death can kill literally everything.

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#33 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy: Once again, since Superman has not worn Cosmic Armor in his dealings as part of the JLA, this point is irrelevant since it is not a part of the battle itself.

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#34 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

I know cosmic armor is not in the JLA i want to know what if he was part of the Justice League will he win will he beat death or will JLA still lose.

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#35 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

I know cosmic armor is not in the JLA i want to know what if he was part of the Justice League will he win will he beat death or will JLA still lose.

If Cosmic Armor Superman is not part of the JLA, there is no point in bringing it up since it is unlikely that the OP has any intention of using him in the battle itself. There is no point in using iterations of JLA characters that are not part of the JLA proper (or outside franchise characters for that matter) to argue.

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#36 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

I just want to know if he wins or lose that is it when i get the answer then we'll continue on topic.

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#37 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaperdewpider: Honestly, if someone needs to being in outside context characters or concepts to even have a point or a leg to stand on to argue for something, it's best not to take them seriously. You can use some outside context things to substantiate your point, but it those things are wholly your point, then they're just moving the goalposts arbitrarily and making up stuff that has nothing to do with the battle itself.

I agree. This is turning farcical, to tell you the truth.

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#38 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

I just want to know if he wins or lose that is it when i get the answer then we'll continue on topic.

Because Cosmic Armor Superman is not part of the JLA and the OP presumably has no intention of him being used in this battle, arguing for whether he can die or not is moot.

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#39 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman XEELEE DEMONBANE DOWNSTREAMER BEYONDOMNIPOTENT stomp because death has done nothing to put it above street-tier it's best feat is gasp killing slow regular humans this is why Horror fans should never pit their characters against people who GASP has actual on screen feats rather than oh it's death so that mean deaths wins because it's death that's not an argument that is at best a statement any proof that this death is actually death it could very well be a demon for all we know.

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#40 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

@deadannoy said:

Superman XEELEE DEMONBANE DOWNSTREAMER BEYONDOMNIPOTENT stomp because death has done nothing to put it above street-tier it's best feat is gasp killing slow regular humans this is why Horror fans should never pit their characters against people who GASP has actual on screen feats rather than oh it's death so that mean deaths wins because it's death that's not an argument that is at best a statement any proof that this death is actually death it could very well be a demon for all we know.

Naturally, though, because Superman can and has died, then Death wins by default. There is no evidence whatsoever that the JLA superman is completely immune to Death. Because there is no proof whatsoever that "death" is a physical being or a demon, we err on the notion that it is a force of nature, albeit one with a personality, and that any cessation of life is Death doing its work.

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#41 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Really death best feat is hitting people with truck throwing them out of a roller coaster burning people in a tanning bed blowing up planes all of which means nothing to the likes of superman who can survive a nuclear bomb and more what's stopping superman from just sundipping until he so powerful that death itself can't kill him.

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#42 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Death doesn't have "feats". It's simply the cessation of life. Unless Superman is outright immortal or cannot be killed at all, then Death will still get him, even if it has to go the long way around.

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#43 Posted by LPercepts (699 posts) - - Show Bio

@reaperdewpider: This is what happens when you put a nebulous concept or force of nature in a battle scenario without a clear set of rules for how it can lose in the scenario. You get stuck arguing definitions and parameters all day long.

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#44 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

There you go no feats people with no feats automatically loses because they have no feats why do you think people avoid using characters with no feats because you can't argue for the featless character period the best you can do is stalemate because death has never killed a being on par like Superman.

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#45 Posted by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

Death is not a person or a "character" in any conventional sense, so not having "feats" isn't a big deal here. It's a force of nature that is the definition of the absence of life in something that was once living. Any cessation of life is Death in action. Therefore, since Superman has died (several times in fact), Death wins by default.

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#46 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

IT IS a big deal if it's best feat is killing mundane humans if it's best feat is killing humans then that's the best it could do until death kills beings as powerful as superman and if death could kill anybody why did it skip the person who was saved from death, why didn't death kill the person anyways instead death skips him and goes to the next person who was supposed to die next.

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#47 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not a big deal, since concepts don't need feats. They are just definitions of something. Of course, that doesn't stop a franchise from giving a concept some form of characterization, but that doesn't make it a character in and of itself per se. FD gives Death the characterization of skipping people until later, which is fine, but not terribly relevant to the battle. If a concept is binding on a character and does what by definition it's supposed to do, then it wins by default unless the battle has rules to say otherwise, which is not applicable in this case.

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#48 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody in final destination dies on the spot they all get killed by objects weather the plane explodes or a mower hit them that it's what's stopping the Flash from keeping everyone safe because flash has already outran death before he's faster than the speed of light death can't kill what it can't touch, the Flash could dodge everything death throws at him and keep his teammate safe.

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#49 Edited by ReaperDewpider (328 posts) - - Show Bio

But the Flash can still die and is not immune to Death, ergo Death wins by default. Running at FtL speeds is not a defense against dying. Being bound by the capability to die means that Death "touches" you by default.

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#50 Posted by Deadannoy (54 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes it is when it's best feat is killing humans via throwing trucks at them nobody has died on the spot all the objects death throws at the Flash, the Flash dodges it and laughs at death and saying you should stick with killing slow humans or better yet BFR it into the Speedforce.