Jiren vs Beerus

@thedarkpaladin: Wasn't Quitella the guy who beat Beerus in arm wrestling? Also Beerus seems to be stronger than Vermoud according to manga. Although as of now it could go either way imo

I don't know about strongest but yeah, Jiren being stronger than Belmod doesn't mean he's stronger than Beerus.

@josephgomes619: he fought all of the gods and didnt seem to have problems handling them so i think its highly likely hes the strongest but to be fair one of the other gods could have been holding back for some reason

@rickyrck: As I thought. I still give it to Beerus until we see further statements.

Jiren

Beerus is not the strongest, he is the most skilled and have ultra instincts hence he is the fastest but physicaly for example he is weaker than Quitela.

@gaoron: Well he's still one of the stronger Gods. And definitely stronger than Vermoud.

@josephgomes619: He probably is but maybe Belmond is gonna show something amazing in next chapter

The manga confirmed that Quitella did beat Beerus in an arm wrestling match, though in the anime, Whis said the GoD of the universe that contains a mortal even a GoD can't defeat is also stronger than Beerus. That statement can be interpreted as "the mortal is only stronger than the GoD of that particular universe", though in this context, I believe Whis was referring to them all, since he mentioned that Jiren's power is on the level of GoD in general, or perhaps even higher.

@thedarkpaladin: In Jiren's official bio he's stated to be on the level of Gods though, not stronger. Beerus is stronger than Vermoud so is Jiren. However we have no way to compare them directly.

http://www.toei-anim.co.jp/tv/dragon_s/chara/chapter4/no11.html

Also when Whis said 'perhaps even surpassed it' he was looking at Vermoud

@josephgomes619: In the anime, Whis also says he's on the level of GoD, and perhaps even greater. He then confirmed that the rumor of a mortal being stronger than a GoD was true:

In episode 93, Whis claimed the GoD of that universe was also stronger than Beerus, so if Jiren truly is the mortal he was referring to, Belmod may be above Beerus in the anime, at least in terms of power:

@thedarkpaladin: Hmm, I would like to see where it goes since the anime and manga have contradictory info. Jiren's full power will most likely be revealed towards the end of the arc.

Also I think Whis might be lying there to motivate Goku and Vegeta, it seemed like a gag scene. DBS has always found a way to make Beerus stronger lol

Either way, if Goku beats Jiren in this arc then Beerus character will be in trouble even if Beerus is stronger than Goku, since the power gap is minuscule now. Toriyama needs to upgrade Beerus character or retire him. Goku being stronger than Beerus will make Beerus unnecessary

@thedarkpaladin: Either there are two mortals stronger than GoDs or manga is going with diffrent approach than anime

By what we know, Jiren > Beerus. You have Whis stating that he's exceeded GoD level and the GoDs shitting themselves at Jiren's power. You have Goku w/Ultra Instinct (which none of the GoDs have mastered yet) being matched by Jiren w/o using his full power. So yeah Jiren can be stronger than Beerus by feats. Jiren > Vermoud and there is correlation evidence saying that Vermoud => Beerus

@josephgomes619: It may also be that Belmod and Quitella both beat Beerus at an arm wrestling match in the past, or perhaps Jiren just isn't the mortal who's above GoD tier. I did find Quitella's calm demeanor throughout that battle to be kind of suspicious.

Hm, I suppose it's possible, but his statement in the first video made it seem like he was serious. I'm sure we'll find out for sure in the next few weeks or so.

@thedarkpaladin: Hmm first video does seem serious since there's no Goku or Vegeta around so Whis has no reason to lie. But whether Belmod is stronger than Beerus is what I doubt. Also we still don't know full extent of Beerus power mind you. However if Toei doesn't show Beerus powers in the next arc, RIP to his character.

@josephgomes619: Beerus did deny Whis' assertion almost immediately after he made it, albeit in a defensive manner, so there is reason to doubt the validity of it. Even if Belmod is physically superior to Beerus, he may not be as skilled in combat, which would explain the recent events in the latest chapter.

@thedarkpaladin: I am very curious to see what happens to Beerus after this arc, what's your prediction? He will definitely not be able to boss around Goku anymore even if he's stronger (the power difference will be very small, if it even exists). It will be sad to see him become irrelevant

@josephgomes619: I believe Goku most likely will end up achieving that state later in the tournament, and will potentially master it to where he can access that kind of power whenever at will. Since the difference between Goku and Beerus would be negligible at that point, the latter will likely try to create a new gap between them by training one on one with Whis--we know he has been slacking off since the start of DBS, while Goku and Vegeta have been training non-stop.

It would feel very different if Beerus dropped the superiority act while in front of Goku after this arc. Lol

@thedarkpaladin: Would you prefer if he turned into a clown or retired? I would rather have Beerus train and become stronger, but I get the feel that won't happen for some reason. One thing for certain, Beerus won't be a top dog anymore after the tournament. I wish he remained stronger for a bit more since he didn't even get to see his full power

lmao no. your logic is so flawed.

do you remember what WHis told goku and Vegeta when they first went to beerus home, on how yes they had achieved access to the power of the gods but he then compared their power to the entire tree as a Gods true power?

i personally think this is the point.

my Bet is that Belmond was planning to have jiren take over as his universes GoD and literally maybe actually retire?

the same could be done with Beerus. i mean think about it, eternal retirement with all the food he could eat while goku or vegeta take over the duties of the GoD.

People saying Jiren roflstomps are sipping that fanboy coolaid. Whis's statements were vague, he came off as curious rather than making factual satements. Jiren is GoD level that is confirmed but it doesn't mean he is stronger than all the gods.

@chair-sama: I don't think either Goku or Vegeta will become God of Destruction. Goku hates all duties and Vegeta is focused on his family. Funny enough, I can see Frieza taking the role if he stays alive after the tournament

Beerus might retire and maybe he will take a nap?

@josephgomes619: Who would take over for Beerus if he retired? I really don't think Goku would accept a destroyer job, and Vegeta seemed opposed to it as well during the BoG/RoF arcs, if I recall. It would also be difficult for them to 180° Beerus' personality and have him stop ordering Goku around. I do agree that he likely won't be top dog after this arc anymore, at least not by a considerable margin, though I doubt it will be grounds for changing his character. The relationship between Beerus and Goku seems more comedic at times anyway.

@thedarkpaladin: Believe it or not, I think Frieza might be up for it lol. I mean Vegeta was a piece of shit and he became a good guy. So did the Androids. Lets see how it goes.

Jiren

@josephgomes619: Heh, I actually didn't consider Freeza as a potential candidate. It would be pretty hilarious if that ended up happening, though.

Beerus, when Jiren can 1v all GoD's do let me know.

The implications of Ultra Instict are that Belmod cannot use it ( Otherwise he would not be as upset when he saw it vs Jiren ), and the Beerus can use it ( Was upset at goku attaining it, even though it helped his universe survive ).

That puts Jiren above a regular GoD, but not a higher tier GoD or one with access to Ultra Instinct.

Also, stop saying that Beerus is the strongest God of Destruction. He is no where near the High Mortal Level universes.

jiren stomps as of now

@thedarkpaladin: I am not usually optimistic but I hope they make Frieza's return worthwhile. Him dying after tournament will be complete waste of time. Also Frieza is the most likely person in the roster to actually willing bust planets and kill people now. Former bad guys don't seem interested in violence. Vegeta admitted to Cabba that U7 saiyans aren't savage anymore, Buu is now Satan's pet and 17 is now a pacifist like Aang (lol). Frieza on the other hand would gladly take over Beerus role anyday. Whis wouldn't mind either, he would keep Frieza in check.

As for Beerus, he could take a long nap and retire gracefully. I would hate to see him turn into background drawing like Tien.

@josephgomes619: He actually would he a good choice, provided he can keep his sadistic nature in check some. Beerus also doesn't appear to think too fondly of Freeza either, even going so far as to question his motives and threaten to destroy him. Nevertheless, he's really the only one I could see replacing Beerus at this time.

@thedarkpaladin: Whis would keep Frieza in check, Frieza is quite respectful of authority and he wouldn't want Zeno to be pissed at him. As for Beerus, he could consider Frieza after seeing nobody else is interested. Beerus is quite a reasonable person.

@josephgomes619: I don't think Freeza would openly oppose the more authoritative figures in the divine hierarchy, but he is inherently mischievous and would most likely try to usurp Zeno in an underhanded way. After all, he essentially considers the tournament nothing but an opportunity to manipulate the Gods and has already sworn that Zeno won't remain at the top forever.

Jiren

@thedarkpaladin: I hope Frieza doesn't do anything stupid and get erased on spot like Frost.

@josephgomes619: Freeza is actually pretty intelligent, so I imagine he'll keep his true motives a secret for the time being. At least I hope he will.

Jiren wins.

I agree Beerus takes this. And Beerus did fought many God of Destruction and that is an impressive feat.

A couple of surprised expressions doesn't really mean anything wether it be Jiren/Beerus/etc. Even Zeno has had surprised expressions about ppl and you're seriously gonna tell me Zeno would be defeated by anyone we've seen at these tournaments??

Expressions mean nothing. There is no way to determine a winner based on that crap. The only true fight we've seen Beerus have was against SSG Goku which Whis even admitted wasn't a battle for Beerus. So too early to tell, let's see Hiren all out and Beerus all out. Then we can make that decision. As of now though, Beerus

Beerus ftw

Beerus until Jiren gets more quantifiable and/or scalable feats.

Beerus for sure takes the Battle, BUT atleast for now, Jiren is the closest we've seen anybody get to being on GoD level.

Also side note, i kind of hope that Freiza kills goku, vegeta rages out and kills both frieze and Jiran. its unlikely, but it would be great haha.

Frieza's been helping Goku more than Vegeta though, lol.

@thedarkpaladin said:

Based on this, I think we can safely say Jiren is above GoD tier:

Gallery

This

Jiren is > destroyer level. Beerus isn't his power

@deathhero61: same

Jiren >Beerus for now.

Beerus Grabs Jiren's arm and Hakai's him or hell Hakai's him period.