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#151 Edited by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: why not the gun killed goku so why can't they guys who are reel gods that can survive anywhere lift plants and more maybe even i can beat goku last time i checked a human name krillin was able to stand up to goku blue form later he got stomp on by a little girl called kale who just got her powers and already she made a god like goku lock like a child and the list goes on and on i can't wait to the next one

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#152 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar: I have no idea what you are ranting about. I simply said there is clear context behind that laser instance which you keep bringing up.

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#153 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: what context that he wasn't having his gurd up and his body is weak if he doesn't focus on ki or it was just pis

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#154 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama: But is a lack of feats too. You know when it first occurred everyone though Goku was universal now. But we are 4 arcs later and Goku has shown no feats of that level or anywhere near it in any of his fights. not even a single statement which they used have in DBZ.

I really know nothing about Darsh but I still see people saying he would beat Beerus, Goku and the rest. Plus from my experience most Superman fans and debaters not the fanboys, do agree that Current Goku would be Superman. But I'm not getting into that.

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#155 Edited by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar: That he depowered. He went back to base form and lowered his ki which was explicitly stated. Goku without his ki has human level durability. However in this fight Goku is in SSB form and bloodlusted. He would only lower his ki after he has beaten his opponents.

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#156 Posted by Chair-Sama (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama:Well we can't exactly ban Superman on a site about comics.

1. when did i say ban superman? the thread i was talking about in particular actually was between Silver surfer and another character lol.

And while I do agree that it is as bad if not worse with comics I think you missed my point.

no i totally got your point. I'm replying with my own point. i know its confusing when people dont fully agree with you.

I never said the fans themselves where the issue.

but thats what I'm saying. its not the characters or the series, its the fan. Look at my other post on here to see my examples of Double standards with Comic fans and anime fans(its on both sides)

Atleast we have feats when it comes to most comic book character and we have a consistent level of power established for most of them.

and that is the problem. because even THAT is not true. there are so many many inconsistencies in comics, issues where Hulk can destroy planets and the next with a different writer we have characters like spidey giving him trouble?

one minute Flash has attosecond reactions, the next he's being tagged by a street leveler.

With DBS Goku's consistent showings are not even planet level yet he is meant to be universal.

thats part of the problem. when it comes to DB people dont want to allow his feats to show what they do.

IE: ill repeat this.

Drax Vs thanos fight.

Drax and thanos fight and them trading blows end up blowing up a planet right? comic fans seem to have no problem using this feat in fights with either character as evidence of them being around planet busting strength right?

literally the exact same situation, goku and beerus sharing blows, and its blowing up planets and threatening the universe, BUT because its DB we cant let goku share the feat, and its ALL beerus(despite it being stated multiple times that the punches were about equal strength)

if you dont see the double standard in this example, then thats the problem.

and before you say, "but beerus is much stronger and therefore its more his feat"

we all know thanos is MUCH stronger and more powerful then Drax. but comic fans are still willing to use the feat with drax.

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#157 Edited by Chair-Sama (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos said:

@chair-sama: But is a lack of feats too. You know when it first occurred everyone though Goku was universal now. But we are 4 arcs later and Goku has shown no feats of that level or anywhere near it in any of his fights. not even a single statement which they used have in DBZ.

its ironic that you mentioned context to somebody else on here.

Show em the context and WHY goku would pull out universal busting feats recently? not many people he has fought has been on a universal level, or needed to be, and goku likes to have fun. it wouldn't make sense for him to bust out the strongest he can be, for somebody, like, frost?

I really know nothing about Darsh but I still see people saying he would beat Beerus, Goku and the rest.

Plus from my experience most Superman fans and debaters not the fanboys, do agree that Current Goku would be Superman. But I'm not getting into that.

I'm just saying, its those fanboys and such that are the problem. thats my point. its not DBS as a series, or superman comics as a series or DC or anything its the Fanboys on Both sides.

Hell, there are still OPM fanboys claiming boros is a star buster with ease.

DBS actually has plenty of good feats at its bare bones, but the fanboys blow it well out of proportion.

"goku is a universe buster" when in reality, id say easy planet buster sure, his punches with beerus threatened the universe(statements) , but they ARE confirmed to have blown planets apart/vaporized them.

"goku and beerus are Billions of times faster then light" when in reality, they are much FTL and probably MFTL with travel speed(feats of crossing galaxies in under 3 minutes and crossing whole universes and such)

and beerus/champa flying around a entire solar system while they fought, sure, makes him FTL, but you gotta ignore those BFTL fanboys.

hell beerus has more actual planet busting feats at this point then most comic characters do to be honest. how many times comic characters get over hyped as universal/multiversal threats because of statement but in the end they MAYBE end up blowing up a planet or two?

atleast beerus/champa at this point have taken down 3-5+ planets themselves, and many moons, with ease. again, thats more then some comic characters who claim to be planet busters (*cough* SA supers/THOR)

people just need to look past the fanboys.

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#158 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: it doesn't matter the same crap happens every other episode whether if it's a normal lazer gun or a human weakling like krillin or sayian kid girl the fact is blue goku locks like crap other than the beerus fight he have nothing nothing to prove he is even worthy to fight this guys, if you want to keep making excuses like "it's out of context" go ahead but it won't do forever one day you have to face the truth and that is this DBS roster is a big pile of unconsistenc bullshit

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#159 Posted by emperorthanos- (16601 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama: Well my last response if you want to discuss I can add you to the pm with the others where it is being discussed. this has gone horribly off topic which is all my fault.

1. when did i say ban superman? the thread i was talking about in particular actually was between Silver surfer and another character lol.

You didn't. It was an example that applies to any comic character.

no i totally got your point. I'm replying with my own point. i know its confusing when people dont fully agree with you.

I don't know if this is meant to be an insult, but the fans are bad on both sides yes but DB has another issue.

and that is the problem. because even THAT is not true. there are so many many inconsistencies in comics, issues where Hulk can destroy planets and the next with a different writer we have characters like spidey giving him trouble?

one minute Flash has attosecond reactions, the next he's being tagged by a street leveler.

There are outliers yes but there is still a consistent level of feats. Hulk has multiple continental showings while he has outliers on both ends however we usually go by the middle ground. Which applies to all characters.

thats part of the problem. when it comes to DB people dont want to allow his feats to show what they do.

The issue comes with the fact that Goku only has the one showing on that level.

BTW Classic Drax and Classic Thanos where actually fairly equal physically. While Beerus has beens stated to be stronger than a far stronger form of Goku.

But again like I said the main reason the feat isn't being counted isn't due to the fact that he shared it. When the feat first appeared people where all eager to call Goku universal. However the dismissing of the feat only began later specifically the Goku Black arc where we see him display far inferior striking.

Show em the context and WHY goku would pull out universal busting feats recently? not many people he has fought has been on a universal level, or needed to be, and goku likes to have fun. it wouldn't make sense for him to bust out the strongest he can be, for somebody, like, frost?

But what about Zamasu or Golden Frieza? Why didn't he pull out that power against them. Why would Goku have held back against Zamasu or Goku Black. Why did Vegito and Fusion Zamasu only destroy buildings physically when both are far stronger than Goku?

That is the issue I'm trying to point out.

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#160 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku has only 1 universal feat. Just 1. When you have only 1 feat and nothing else consistent with it, it's called an outlier

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#161 Posted by Chair-Sama (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama: Well my last response if you want to discuss I can add you to the pm with the others where it is being discussed. this has gone horribly off topic which is all my fault.

then this shall be my last response as well, as i also dont want to full derail this either.

You didn't. It was an example that applies to any comic character.

true

I don't know if this is meant to be an insult, but the fans are bad on both sides yes but DB has another issue.

umm yes, but not to you, that was accidentally copy and pasted from a different thread. My B.

and that is the problem. because even THAT is not true. there are so many many inconsistencies in comics, issues where Hulk can destroy planets and the next with a different writer we have characters like spidey giving him trouble?

one minute Flash has attosecond reactions, the next he's being tagged by a street leveler.

There are outliers yes but there is still a consistent level of feats. Hulk has multiple continental showings while he has outliers on both ends however we usually go by the middle ground. Which applies to all characters.

then this should be applied to goku as well. goku has hung with Planet busters since frieze saga.

he even traded blows in a fight with a guy who casually tapped his finger and blew half a planet away.

just because he has lower and higher showings, shouldnt mean we dont take the middle ground.

The issue comes with the fact that Goku only has the one showing on that level.

he really doesn't though.

he overpowered frieza, who busted a planet, he over powered kid buu, who was a planet buster on one of the most casual levels, he went blow for blow with Cell(planet buster but it was a smaller more dense planet)

he traded blows with Beerus, who has planet busting feats before, During, and After the fight at many different times.

thats 4 people he has fought, with three of them being beaten by him, who could all planet bust. so it actually seem pretty consistent that this is around where goku is hovering power wise.

granted the whole galaxy or universe busting? thats again, fanboys. it was even stated in the series that it was because the shockwaves got stronger the farther away they got.

but if you look at it, goku has consistently been in the planet busting league, and basicly edging his way up currently, (but that doesn't mean he's going to go all out 100% all the time)

he's shown he superior to casual planet busters like BUU, but not quite around the level of the gods who are prpabbly anywhere form Galaxy-universe level and nowhere near Zeno's level which is multiversal.

like you said, people jumped to call him universal, when even the series doesn't support that, their blows simply vaporized planets,but the shockwaves growing in size threatened the universe. Now take that as you may but I've always considered it to be the blows were planet level(shows consistency with goku's power) but them continuing makes them stronger and threatened the universe.

BTW Classic Drax and Classic Thanos where actually fairly equal physically. While Beerus has beens stated to be stronger than a far stronger form of Goku.

wether beerus has more power he was not using or not is irrelevant as at one point, it specifically stated that goku matched the power beerus was putting out.

so despite beerus' max power, the power he was using (which at the very least was strong enough to smash planets) goku was able to match it. ignoring the Shockwave universe BS.

But again like I said the main reason the feat isn't being counted isn't due to the fact that he shared it. When the feat first appeared people where all eager to call Goku universal.

which would be most of the fanboys, and again, gotta get past them. He's logically a planet buster when truly going all out at most with physical hits.

However the dismissing of the feat only began later specifically the Goku Black arc where we see him display far inferior striking.

true, but that can logically be just as much PIS as people like drax or thanos NOT destroying planets when they smacked peopled down after said fight happened.

But what about Zamasu or Golden Frieza? Why didn't he pull out that power against them.

because both times there were on planet earth.....why would he punch somebody so hard that it would cause the planet to be destroyed? remember, at this point he hadn't known that Whis could turn back time with golden frieza, and he himself stated when he sensed frieze's power that he didn't have to worry. between him and vegeta, golden frieza was not an issue (though obviously overlooking Frieze being a sneaky jerk and blowing the planet up)

where as beerus? they KNEW beerus could easily KO goku and destroy the planet(he had already effortlessly KO'd goku) , so goku had to force himself to go all out or the planet was done for anyway. whats the point of holding back to save the planet if you are going to lose the planet by not going all out?

Why would Goku have held back against Zamasu or Goku Black.

quite honestly? jobbing the shit out of the fight like it was well, their job. PIS at its max so Toriyama could give trunks a good moment in the end. and bring in his idea to have two Zeno's by combining the one from the other universe's timeline?

plus, with this fight, he had his ultimate trump card the whole time that he never used. Zeno.

Why did Vegito and Fusion Zamasu only destroy buildings physically when both are far stronger than Goku?

again, Jobberman strikes again. and because of atleast vegito not wanting to blow up the planet that was still technically trunk's home(which ended up happening anyway)

OH, yea, and because I'm pretty sure blowing up the planet would kill 1/2 of vegito's wife AND destroy the time machine they needed to escape anyway. so again PIS on toriyama's part as he would have put himself into a pretty deep hole to dig out of.

and lets face it, the whole black goku arc was just a Job fest.

Vegeta got the ultimate feat of literally blowing apart a pocket dimension, just by powering up.

then gets stomped by a building level bad guy.

That is the issue I'm trying to point out.

its still logical. the same logic applies to comics.

many comic characters, like hulk, at times can Bust the planet, but why doesn't he do that EVERY time?

the flash can speed steal people and literally turn them into statues, but why doesn't he casually spam that ability on any street level thug who fights him? or even the Highly overpowered opponents where it would make sense to do it?

in between PIS and usually collateral damage possibilities for most hero's a LOT of people hold back or dont use their abilities when they could or should.

i mean, isn't that why they are called jobbers? what you are describing, wouldn't it be jobbing?

MY point is, when it happens in comics, we just say, no he's jobbing, he CAN do it but he's just not(AKA Jobberseid/ Dr. Jobber/ Jobberman/ The living Jobber, ETC)

BUT when its goku? he's not jobbing, he just cant do it, that other feats was BS.

I've just seen it on both sides where people on the DBS side go Full "goku is universal" and the opposite side goes full "butt the lazerbeam" and then DBS gets labeled as all power scaling,

but when anybody tries to do it to the other side (flash being "stated" to be moving at attosecond speed, or any other the other statements that were made but never backed up on) then we are just supposed to shup up and accepted it, even when that same attosecond man getting tagged by somebody who could arguably be said to be slower then the speed of light or something ridiculous like that.

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#162 Posted by JustSomeRandomKid (5153 posts) - - Show Bio

Why in the world are people talking about banning DBZ? You don't like a thread or the people posting in it? Don't post in it. It's pretty simple.

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#163 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8531 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos said:

@deathhero61: I made a pm. But yeah I do agree temp ban. However considering DBZ is already banned for the most part it isn't a sudden cahnge.

Invite me to that PM, if you don't mind.

me too, if that's ok.

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#164 Posted by Yoxer (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku should take with a bit of trouble. I mean I don't see how anyone except maybe jin can slightly hurt goku since he's been taking star lvl attacks from kid buu & now he's leagues above that.

I mean weak force is defiantly a way to go if goku let's his guard go.

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#165 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

He still pastes them with a punch.

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#166 Posted by Super_Saiyan_Devil (1632 posts) - - Show Bio
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#167 Posted by Chronicplane (9413 posts) - - Show Bio

bump.

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#168 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7069 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#169 Edited by Avatar_of_Gaea (573 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku hakais them all in MUI at MFTL reaction IT speed

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#170 Posted by wertypoi2 (4 posts) - - Show Bio
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#171 Posted by DrPepperMan (6288 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku while shooting ki blasts:

"And another one gone, and another one gone, another one bites the dust."

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#172 Edited by CodeVein (1356 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku turns M.UI for some reason or another then flatlines them all

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#173 Posted by Avatar_of_Gaea (573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#174 Posted by Gaoron (9239 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku hits way harder but is slower and needs oxygen to survive. Team can just blitz and destroy the planet tbh.