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#101 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

@deathhero61:Your implying banning a series would stop people like NoHate.

Of course not, but it would stop flame wars between Manga Fans and DB fans, it effectively stopped the flame wars between DB fans and Comic Fans(because based off the ruling these interactions aren't allowed unless its in a private isolated CAV between two or more users and the results are decided based off voting and the quality of debate)

When was the last time you saw a Goku vs Superman debate on the battle forums that wasn't a CAV or a tourney match?

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#102 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

They aren't, they're on par with Base Goku and Vegeta, not SSJG Goku and Vegeta, come on man at least try.

Yes I know how powerful SSJG is, too bad Cabba was lolstomped by SSJB Vegeta.

Clearly not.

Did you not read my post? He's literally stated as one of the Top U6 Warriors and a member of Saladas defence force.

You clearly are the usual bred who believe that they know everything about Scaling and DBZ, your lack of knowledge is showing.

Did you forget Goku absorbed God ki in base during BoG arc? That's how he was fighting Beerus in episode 13 and 14. Go rewatch BoG arc again.

Do you know how much God Ki he absorbed? Do we know if SSJG full power stacked onto him?

Goku in Kaioken X20 SSJB can't even fight Beerus on equal footing, he was t fighting Beerus at all.

Im fine thanks.

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#103 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Have you discussed this with the rest of the moderators what have they said on the matter.

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#104 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Have you discussed this with the rest of the moderators what have they said on the matter.

What do you mean by rest of the rest of the Mods? I'm not a mod.

And no I haven't spoken to the mods about this yet it was just a thought that came to my mind. I may ask them about it though I don't think me alone talking to them about it is going to do much. It needs to be a collective.

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#105 Edited by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 Every time a Manga series crosses the border of high-tier. And someone wants to compare it to the most well known high-tier anime: Dragon Ball. It immediately delves into the equivalent of "A character from another manga beating Goku? My nostaglic hero who can blow up universes with his fingers? Pfffft, Goku stomps easily GG No Re."

Its legit as if nobody can win against Dragon Ball, the fanbase itself is a minor problem. But its a huge part of the problem that is DB as a whole, the other part of the problem being the horrible writing from time to time, the vague fights, leading to arguments such as Ki Control, striking potency, and the huge controversy revolving Speed and Destructive Capacity.

And the worse part is when trying to look at DBZ at a quantifiable level compared to comics.

"Oh Silver Surfer destroyed a planet? That's cute, Frieza destroyed a planet with ten times earth's gravity and density, meaning according to my calculations based off gravity and density that scientists still are learning more stuff about, he can bust thousands of planets casually without even trying." That calcs are insufferable, the assumptions of certain feats and scaling certain characters who just have no business on the battle forums due to lack of feats(Goten/Trunks without fusion, Zeno, Whis/Vados, several characters currently appearing in the Tournament of Power, etc.)

Regarding the fanbase as a whole and this whole disrespect crap? You should have seen the forums back when this site was waaaay older. The fanbase was toxic. Throwing out insults and taunts, immature fans that think they know everything but barely know jack crap while using faulty science to quantify DB feats. People who attempt to claim Goku as a kid is FTL or MFTL.... I mean seriously. This type of stuff doesn't come about as frequently in other fictional communities like Naruto, Bleach, OPM, or Marvel/DC, Image, etc. as it does in Dragon Ball.

People like myself, @emperorthanos@queen_marceline@amendment50 and the like have different viewpoints on the series, but we don't hype up the series to the point of extinction like previous fans did. When debating DB against different forms of fiction we also keep in mind the huge differences between how one represents and researches Superman or Thor, and how one represents and researches Goku or Frieza.

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#106 Edited by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I see, well have you perhaps thought of some way to calculate DB characters limits, similar to the Gravity Formula ScrewAttack used something like that.

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#107 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I see, well have you perhaps thought of some way to calculate DB characters limits, similar to the Gravity Formula ScrewAttack used something like that.

No, why would I do that. Calcs are the worst and always vary using actual feats are better

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#108 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio
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#109 Posted by HitTheAssasin (8454 posts) - - Show Bio

This, this thread is the summary of all the reasons DBZ being banned is good. Theirs so many flamewars when they're only up against Manga characters, now just imagine Goku vs Superman.

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#110 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Well I've said my peace, though It's better than using power levels or scaling as that is inconsistent.

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#111 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Well I've said my peace, though It's better than using power levels or scaling as that is inconsistent.

alright. Also I hope you do realize that the 5 people on this thread who have advocated for a DB ban so far are all DB fans first and foremost

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#112 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I guess it just upsets me seeing so many people lowballing/downplaying DB for all the reasons listed above. I have respect for you guys and honestly out of all the DB fans I've discussed this to you guys seem to be the most logical.

As for the whole banned DB thing "imo" I'm against it but again at the end of the day the moderators are the ones who decide what's allowed and what's not.

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#113 Posted by Sy8000 (35709 posts) - - Show Bio

Though technically speaking this match is against the rules. Since GOH isn't a manga.

The mods have allowed it.

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#114 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

This, this thread is the summary of all the reasons DBZ being banned is good. Theirs so many flamewars when they're only up against Manga characters, now just imagine Goku vs Superman.

Remember the months before Toriko was ending? That shit was hell.

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#115 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I guess it just upsets me seeing so many people lowballing/downplaying DB for all the reasons listed above. I have respect for you guys and honestly out of all the DB fans I've discussed this to you guys seem to be the most logical.

As for the whole banned DB thing "imo" I'm against it but again at the end of the day the moderators are the ones who decide what's allowed and what's not.

It does bother me too. But it is simply a byproduct of how bad DBS is when it comes to giving it's characters feats. There have been no decent feats post Champa tournament while the last good feats we had was BOG. Characters seem to have gotten weaker than their DBZ couterpaths by current showings.

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#116 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:
@hittheassasin said:

This, this thread is the summary of all the reasons DBZ being banned is good. Theirs so many flamewars when they're only up against Manga characters, now just imagine Goku vs Superman.

Remember the months before Toriko was ending? That shit was hell.

So we just going to talk about this or do you guys actually think we should go to the mods and discuss this seriously

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#117 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

Do you know how much God Ki he absorbed? Do we know if SSJG full power stacked onto him?

Goku in Kaioken X20 SSJB can't even fight Beerus on equal footing, he was t fighting Beerus at all.

Im fine thanks.

Uh yes we do? Goku absorbed all the god ki, and he said he didn't feel any weaker after the God aura vanished.

We all know Beerus was holding back, what's that supposed to prove?

And please, do watch the episodes again. You clearly don't remember half the things you're talking about

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#118 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: @deathhero61: I agree with the notion that DB matches should be banned or at least restricted further. I'm tired of these threads ending up like this.

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#119 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio
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#120 Posted by Chaos239 (5081 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

Do you know how much God Ki he absorbed? Do we know if SSJG full power stacked onto him?

Goku in Kaioken X20 SSJB can't even fight Beerus on equal footing, he was t fighting Beerus at all.

Im fine thanks.

Uh yes we do? Goku absorbed all the god ki, and he said he didn't feel any weaker after the God aura vanished.

We all know Beerus was holding back, what's that supposed to prove?

And please, do watch the episodes again. You clearly don't remember half the things you're talking about

Yes I know that, we just don't know if it stacked on him properly, as much as I personally dislike the God Ki situation It's a fact Cabba can match base Vegeta.

My point is that God Ki didn't even let him fight 1% Beerus.

If you think so fair enough.

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#121 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: well the next step is actually going to the Battle Forums mods about it. And seeing if it can actually be implemented if enough people advocate for it.

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#122 Posted by HigherPower (12399 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: I think a majority of people will favor the change. But a very slim majority, as the DB fanbase is still incredibly large.

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#123 Posted by DeathHero61 (18870 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61 said:
@hittheassasin said:

This, this thread is the summary of all the reasons DBZ being banned is good. Theirs so many flamewars when they're only up against Manga characters, now just imagine Goku vs Superman.

Remember the months before Toriko was ending? That shit was hell.

So we just going to talk about this or do you guys actually think we should go to the mods and discuss this seriously

The thing about it is, that Banning DBZ as a whole is an honest to god option, but I think it should be a temporary ban at best, and I don't think it should be right this instant.(maybe after the TOP ends lets see how the threads development then) DB was manageable when it was only against Manga, but now that has gotten out of control every now and then. So I am not sure myself. I only defended the idea because there's legit reasons why it should be banned, and if everyone else was on board, I'd be on board as well.

To sum up I think we SHOULD talk to the mods but lets not get hasty about the idea overall "DBZ should be banned" then BAM! done. I think we should take time discussing it.

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#124 Posted by Trndo (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

Tha main thing is people that low-ball DB only cherry pick what they want and not events that's actually happenend. They prentend things didn't happen even though they did and abuse the term outlier to discredit the series.

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#125 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: It will take a long time to finish. Each chapter is 70 pages and there are more than 300 chapters. Although I dropped the webtoon after the Ragnarok Arc. Some major stuff happened in the story and I don't feel like reading it anymore until it becomes better (if it ever does)

That's pretty long, actually. Now I'm having second thoughts about whether I should invest time reading it or not. Lol

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#126 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I made a pm. But yeah I do agree temp ban. However considering DBZ is already banned for the most part it isn't a sudden cahnge.

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#127 Posted by Chronicplane (9359 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos: Mind inviting me to that PM, I would like to join in the discussion if that is ok.

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#128 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@chaos239 said:

@deathhero61:Your implying banning a series would stop people like NoHate.

Not necessarily, but it will cut down on toxic threads/mismatches and the ones who create countless alts simply to continue making them won't be taken seriously. Just look at Nohate's threads for example. When is the last time you've seen people argue seriously in them?

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#129 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathhero61: I made a pm. But yeah I do agree temp ban. However considering DBZ is already banned for the most part it isn't a sudden cahnge.

Invite me to that PM, if you don't mind.

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#130 Edited by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarkpaladin: On the bright side webtoon pages are easy to read, there are not more than 3 panels each page and many pages have a single panel only, so it's much quicker than reading manga. Even then it's still very long though, the only manga I read more than 200 chapters from start to finish are Nisekoi, Prison School and Kimi No Iru Machi (ecchi/harem/romance since I don't get tired of tiddies lol).

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#131 Posted by Trndo (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

The hate for Dragonball is so bad people want to ban it wow. The funny things is people understand how it works but still discredit because of all the salt.

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#132 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trndo: Dragon Ball fans are tearing each other apart it most forums. The fanbase is extremely troublesome. Have you heard of VSB wiki? Dragon Ball vs comics/saint seiya is banned there. Guess why?

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#133 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trndo said:

The hate for Dragonball is so bad people want to ban it wow. The funny things is people understand how it works but still discredit because of all the salt.

It has nothing to do with hatred for Dragon Ball. The people that are discussing this subject are actually well-known Dragon Ball fans.

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#134 Posted by PurpleDeaDragon (2186 posts) - - Show Bio

Invite me to the PM, I wanna check it out.

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#135 Posted by Godren (3792 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this is gold.Completely biased and DBZ getting singled out as usual.I can name about 2 other manga/anime that has massive flame wars all the time in every thread.But so don't see a group of individuals rallying up to get them banned.I guess it wouldn't matter if it got banned anyways it's usually only the same trash (insert group of 5-10 characters) vs saiyan saga goku repeatedly with an added twist.

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#136 Posted by Thedarkpaladin (22886 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: I see. Guess I'll check it out anyway and see if I enjoy it enough to read the entire thing.

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#137 Posted by Trndo (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

@josephgomes619: It's non fans that are troublesome. They say everything is an outlier they can low ball. The fans are ones actually showing feats and useing scaling

Also vswiki is more civilized because characters don't get lowballed there because there system works. Lowballed threads get delt with so they don't have this problem. Every character is used to the best of there ability and not cherry picked.

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#138 Edited by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trndo said:

The hate for Dragonball is so bad people want to ban it wow. The funny things is people understand how it works but still discredit because of all the salt.

I have no hate for DBZ. I'm pretty well known across vine as a DBZ fan/supporter and my DBZ debating which got me into the HOF. Likewise as i said earlier most of of the people here who are advocating the ban are DBZ fans.(I even said I though GOku won this fight)

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#139 Posted by josephgomes619 (3799 posts) - - Show Bio

@Trndo: VSB wiki has Cabba at Universal. If you agree with that, I have nothing to say to you

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#140 Posted by guleddos (659 posts) - - Show Bio

Should it really be the year when the endless cycle of dbz wanking and downplaying ends :o.

Invite me to the PM, I wanna check it out.

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#141 Edited by DemonGod_PABLO (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

The reason why dragon ball threads turn to crap is because people intentionally cherry pick feats and low ball DB against characters who have worst showings from other series. Every feat DB characters have gets called outlier but those same exact people don't use the same arguments in other threads. Example: the same people who thought/think kaguya is a planet buster due to statements would be the same individuals who say cell isn't a solar system buster because we can't trust statements.

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#142 Posted by Chair-Sama (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar said:

oh man this will be bad but i'll go with team due to being actually impressive feat wise in all of their showing and don't get almost killed by a laser gun hold by a guy i can beat also it seems this days blue form is just another transformation with no reel greet to it as the likes of android 17 freiza lssj kyle can match it or surpass it. also goku power scale lately seems like a country level or maybe even less its ridiculous and extremely annoying i'm not gonna play along with everyone here and say goku stomp due to the beerus fight when he almost destroy the universe or some shit like that cuz the goku we have now it seems batman can beat so team stompppp by the guys who are actually reel gods!!

goku uses hakai. team is instantly erased.

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#143 Posted by Vulkanian (692 posts) - - Show Bio

@uglysoulgod: This guy gets it. Outlier for thee but not for me.

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#144 Posted by Chair-Sama (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe it's time to start thinking about a permanent ban on regular DB matches that aren't cavs not just against comics but manga as well. DBS is so much worse to debate than DBZ ever was.

Though technically speaking this match is against the rules. Since GOH isn't a manga.

lmao. and yet we allow some of the trash debates that happen with comics and stuff like OPM? really?

ha. when you can find a comic thread and watch 6 people argue over literally the EXACT same scan, for 12 days straight, posting walls and walls and walls of text(literally when the scan itself says maybe 5 words) throwing insults, and over all being disgusting people, and then to come here and say DBS debates are bad? smh this whole forums sections needs to be re-evaluated.

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#145 Posted by Trndo (1085 posts) - - Show Bio

@uglysoulgod: The reason why dragon ball threads turn to crap is because people intentionally cherry pick feats and low ball DB against characters who have worst showings from other series. Every feat DB characters have gets called outlier but those same exact people don't use the same arguments in other threads. Example: the same people who thought/think kaguya is a planet buster due to statements would be the same individuals who say cell isn't a solar system buster because we can't trust statements.

Exactly I couldn't have said it any better! Facts

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#146 Posted by omriamar (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama: unless team have a lazer gun

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#147 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@omriamar said:

@chair-sama: unless team have a lazer gun

Context. Learn what that means and maybe you won't spout nonsense.

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#148 Posted by DemonGod_PABLO (1730 posts) - - Show Bio

@emperorthanos said:

Maybe it's time to start thinking about a permanent ban on regular DB matches that aren't cavs not just against comics but manga as well. DBS is so much worse to debate than DBZ ever was.

Though technically speaking this match is against the rules. Since GOH isn't a manga.

lmao. and yet we allow some of the trash debates that happen with comics and stuff like OPM? really?

ha. when you can find a comic thread and watch 6 people argue over literally the EXACT same scan, for 12 days straight, posting walls and walls and walls of text(literally when the scan itself says maybe 5 words) throwing insults, and over all being disgusting people, and then to come here and say DBS debates are bad? smh this whole forums sections needs to be re-evaluated.

Realist shit I have read on vine. Have you seen a flash or Dr manhattan thread. DB flame wars don't come close

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#149 Posted by emperorthanos- (16598 posts) - - Show Bio

@chair-sama:Well we can't exactly ban Superman on a site about comics. And while I do agree that it is as bad if not worse with comics I think you missed my point. I never said the fans themselves where the issue. Atleast we have feats when it comes to most comic book character and we have a consistent level of power established for most of them. With DBS Goku's consistent showings are not even planet level yet he is meant to be universal.

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#150 Edited by Chair-Sama (2313 posts) - - Show Bio

@chronicplane said:

@emperorthanos: I guess it just upsets me seeing so many people lowballing/downplaying DB for all the reasons listed above. I have respect for you guys and honestly out of all the DB fans I've discussed this to you guys seem to be the most logical.

As for the whole banned DB thing "imo" I'm against it but again at the end of the day the moderators are the ones who decide what's allowed and what's not.

It does bother me too. But it is simply a byproduct of how bad DBS is when it comes to giving it's characters feats. There have been no decent feats post Champa tournament while the last good feats we had was BOG. Characters seem to have gotten weaker than their DBZ couterpaths by current showings.

has anybody ever considered that sometimes its not a lack of feats but that somepoeple simply dont want DB characters to win?

Now hear me out with this.

Classic example is Dark schneider.

I've seen 3 threads in the last weak, where multiple people(even comic fans) admit that Dark Schneider would absolutely god stomp most comic characters, including post crisis superman, pre/post crisis wonder woman, GL, Flash ETC.

and there are plenty of threads showing that characters like beerus/whis/ and even goku would beat darsh.

yet you mention Goku vs superman, and everybody will rage out saying there is no way goku could EVER win.

and its like, so when its Darsh, or somebody else, then were all good admitting when superman would get beat, AND those same people are willing to admit goku would possible beat darsh, but then turn around and say goku gets god stomped by Superman. and its like, ???

sometimes it just seems like people dont want to accept a feat because its goku.

here another example. Thanos Vs Drax

there is a fight where thanks and drax exchange blows and together they destroy a planet.

not a single comic fan has had a problem having drax and thanos share that feat, and that their blows destroyed a planet.

But goku vs beerus, doing the SAME EXACT THING, trading blows, and those blows then causing entire planets to blow up/vaporize and the universe begin to take damage, and NOBODY wants to let goku share the feat.

so its like, why the double standard?