@irhp87: "DBZ runs on math. It isn't a fan calculation to say that Goku's Power Level in Kaioken x2 is 10,000 if his Power Level is 5,000. This is called math"
DBZ most definitely does NOT run on math. It runs on who screams the longest. I was being sarcastic with saying fan calcs.
"Power Levels are a type of feat, you just can't visually see what they're capable of."
Then it's not a feat. A feat is a person actually doing something extraordinary.
"We don't need to see a thing, simply having a higher Power Level than someone is a feat (an achievement, which is a thing done successfully). Nowhere in these definitions do we see that they require one to witness them for them to count, so simply having a higher Power Level than someone else is, by definition, a feat."
I can't believe someone actually believes this.
"If you want to ignore the actual definitions then ComicVine says a feat is "evidence of ability," which a Power Level is in Dragon Ball."
Just because you say it's feat doesn't mean it is.
"You are stuck on seeing feats, you're ignoring the part of the rules about being objective, doing critical analysis"
I would love to be objective but you haven't posted a single feat on Nappa busting a moon 15x over. I'm getting on about feats so heavily because in the beginning you said: "All I can go on is feats and calculations, then explain my positions, as I did earlier"
And yet Nappa barely have any feats to go off of.
"place my faith in how Toriyama decides his manga works, and how the universe itself dictates as much. If you disagree with how Toriyama run his manga, go tell him to change it."
PL is all nice in well in his verse but against others that "PL logic" needs to be turned down a notch Or else it doesn't make sense.
"The series is built around Power Levels and that's indisputable"
I've already agreed to this. Outside of its verse is when things get iffy.
"If you don't like it too bad, but that's how it is. If someone has a Power Level of 10 and another has a Power Level of 5, and PL 5 can lift 100 pounds, then we know PL 10 can pick up at least 200 pounds. This is logic. This is math. This is Power Levels. This is Dragon Ball. I don't know what else to tell you."
I don't think you understand what I'm really debating here. I'm not debating that logic, I'm debating the type of logic where a person with a PL of 1 busted a planet therefore a person with a power level 10 can bust a planet 10x over. That's dumb. I won't deny that the person with a PL of 10 is a planet buster but that's dumb to believe he can bust a planet 10x over based merely off of that.
"Different universes weren't meant to be mixed. If we do, then Power Levels exist, you can't dismiss them if we're comparing characters since that's how Nappa's power works. If you just want to put Nappa in Jin's world then that isn't very fair but maybe Jin would beat him, then. It sure seems that if you put Jin in Nappa's world he would be a small fry, though. The best thing to do is just say that they would each win in their own universe, I suppose."
You're either low balling or don't truly understand why Jin is above Saiyan Saga characters (at the least). I'm trying to advoid debating between Nappa and Jin (because I made this thread). Take up your belief with the others in this thread.
"Anyway, I'm curious, what do you mean by that supposed contradiction?"
USS trunks power level was above Cell and yet Cell was still above USS Trunks. That contradicts the DBZ logic. By DBZ logic USS>Cell but it was Cell>USS Trunks
"d a city. King Piccolo destroyed a city. Goku beat King Piccolo. Goku beat Nappa. So is King Piccolo on Nappa's level? No, of course not. Nappa has a stronger Power Level and Goku beat them both when hewas at different Power Levels. Do you see? It comes back to PLs. We can't get away from them, so we just need to accept that is how DBZ logic works."
I guess I need to clarify. Not disagreeing with PL's at least not completely. Disagreeing with the multipliers that you made. And the logic that went with why you believe Nappa would beat Jin.
"We can't restrict characters to visual feats in DBZ or villains get weaker in some cases, or don't advance beyond who came before them."
I wished everyone thought the same but that's not the case.
"So you don't like arguing with people like yourself, then."
Ha. I admit that was funny.
"Us not seeing him means less than nothing, actually. Yamcha surpassed Kami's Power Level, and Kami said there was nothing left he could teach Yamcha, and that he would need to go and continue training on his own. Kami was above Roshi who blew up a moon. You're telling me that Yamcha, who is above Kami, who is above Roshi who destroyed a moon...cannot destroy a moon? Kami's Power Level is merely 220...Yamcha is at 1,480, over 6x his Power Level. But he can't blow up the moon?"
Never said that. Again don't think you know what I'm arguing.
"...Because we didn't see him do it? Haha, that is just literally ridiculous. Yamcha has no reason to do that, but we knowhe can. We know it. You know it. I know it. That guy knows it."
That means quite a bit. Go, and try to do a CaV with one of these DBZ characters with barely any feats. I might believe this, you might believe this. But we'll never know because it hasn't been done.
"Look, I think we're both being a little rude, and I apologize if I came off wrong, but if you really still think Yamcha can't destroy a moon then I think we're never going to agree on even bigger points, and we should just agree to disagree."
Never said this. I just dont believe Nappa can beat Jin based off of multipliers combined with ABC logic. That's equivalent to saying Superman loses to Green Arrow. Which is ridiculous. We can agree to disagree.
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