Jin Mo-ri runs a DBZ Guantlet!

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JustSomeRandomKid

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#1  Edited By JustSomeRandomKid

Jin Mo-ri

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Round 1: Nappa

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Round 2: Vegeta (Saiyan Saga)

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Round 3: Goku (Saiyan Saga)

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Round 4: Captain Ginyu

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Round 5: Freeza (100% Power)

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Round 6: SSJ Goku (Namek Saga)

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Round 7: Super Vegeta (Cell Saga)

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Round 8: MSSJ Goku (Cell Saga)

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Round 9: SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Saga)

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Round 10: SSJ2 Majin Vegeta (Buu Saga)

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Round 11: SSJ3 Goku (Buu Saga)

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Round 12: Super Buu

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Round 13: Mystic Gohan

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Round 14: Super Vegito

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Round 15: SSGSS Goku

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Rules:

  • Jin Mo-ri is morals off.
  • Jin has standard equipment except for his Gourd.
  • Jin has no time limit/power drain on his God Form.
  • Jin is rested after each fight.
  • Fight takes place on an indestructible Earth.
  • Win by death or K.O.
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Sy8000

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Stops at Vegito.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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Stops at Vegito.

Wow. I remember when people were arguing that he couldnt beat SSJ Goku (Namek Saga)

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Sy8000

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@highaccuser said:

Stops at Vegito.

Wow. I remember when people were arguing that he couldnt beat SSJ Goku (Namek Saga)

I strongly disagree.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@justsomerandomkid said:
@highaccuser said:

Stops at Vegito.

Wow. I remember when people were arguing that he couldnt beat SSJ Goku (Namek Saga)

I strongly disagree.

I strongly agree with your disagreement.

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Drk045

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Gets blitzed at SSGSS

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NighThunder

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Jgames

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Stop at 9 possibly, don't see him getting past 10 except by bfr, doubt he get pass 11, and 15 god stomp.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@nighthunder: Respect Thread:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/jin-mo-ri-respect-thread-1527014/

Unless you're looking for something more specific.

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ssj_god

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i'll play the devil here

pitting dbz characters against non manga characters is banned here..

so this thread should be against the rule.. :)

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@ssj_god: Manwha is merely Korean Manga. A subcategory of Manga if anything.

If you truly believed it needed to be locked you would have tagged a mod.

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ssj_god

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#13  Edited By ssj_god

@justsomerandomkid:

Yeah .. And comics are US manga .. -_-

Japanese comics are called manga .. The comics which ain't japanese, isn't technically a manga ....

Anyway .. I was joking man .. Isn't that obvious? :D

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Bluejay4

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Buu absorbs this anime Punk.

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ssj_god

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@ssj_god: "Yeah .. And comics are US manga .. -_-"

Not really...their drawn and written differently.

"Japanese comics are called manga .. The comics which ain't japanese, isn't technically a manga ...."

That's technically true. People still see manga as "Asain comics" not just Japanese tho. (Hence the confusion between manhwa and manga)

"Anyway .. I was joking man .. Isn't that obvious? :D"

It is. I still responded seriously tho for the people who would actually tag the mods for that.

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ssj_god

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"Not really...their drawn and written differently."

Yeah .. And so are manhwas .. They're to be read from left to right like US comics .. Unlike japanese mangas.

"It is. I still responded seriously tho for the people who would actually tag the mods for that."

Ok .. :D

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IRHP87

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@nighthunder: Respect Thread:

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/jin-mo-ri-respect-thread-1527014/

Unless you're looking for something more specific.

Based on that thread, I don't see him passing Nappa, frankly. Dodging lightning and poles destroying moons...this is Dragon Ball tier stuff. I feel like Nappa can kill this guy by flipping him off.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87: Lol he can't pass Nappa? How? Please explain.

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drew6670

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#20  Edited By drew6670

7-9 maybe.

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NighThunder

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Soooo his best durability feat is surviving two planets of dubious size being smashed around him.

He doesn't have any solid planetary striking feats

Annd for speed all I'm seeing is calcs calcs and more calcs

Theres a maaaaaaaaaaaassiiiiiiiiive gap between Goku in saiyan saga and ginyu but I'd say he's around there. Def not beating frieza.

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josephgomes619

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Stops at 15. Jin Mori is thousands of times FTL, nobody below god tiers can beat him

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IRHP87

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@justsomerandomkid: I did. Why can he beat Nappa? I am open to hearing an argument, but he seems like Dragon Ball level material, maybe at most early Z.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87 said:

@justsomerandomkid: I did. Why can he beat Nappa? I am open to hearing an argument, but he seems like Dragon Ball level material, maybe at most early Z.

From how you worded both of your posts. Im gonna ask a different question. How strong do you believe Nappa is?

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IRHP87

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@irhp87 said:

@justsomerandomkid: I did. Why can he beat Nappa? I am open to hearing an argument, but he seems like Dragon Ball level material, maybe at most early Z.

From how you worded both of your posts. Im gonna ask a different question. How strong do you believe Nappa is?

I don't know what you mean. Very strong, I guess?

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87 said:
@justsomerandomkid said:
@irhp87 said:

@justsomerandomkid: I did. Why can he beat Nappa? I am open to hearing an argument, but he seems like Dragon Ball level material, maybe at most early Z.

From how you worded both of your posts. Im gonna ask a different question. How strong do you believe Nappa is?

I don't know what you mean. Very strong, I guess?

Like his Speed, Strength, Damage Output, etc.

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IRHP87

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@irhp87 said:
@justsomerandomkid said:
@irhp87 said:

@justsomerandomkid: I did. Why can he beat Nappa? I am open to hearing an argument, but he seems like Dragon Ball level material, maybe at most early Z.

From how you worded both of your posts. Im gonna ask a different question. How strong do you believe Nappa is?

I don't know what you mean. Very strong, I guess?

Like his Speed, Strength, Damage Output, etc.

I'm not good at quantifying these things (I assume you mean when people say things like "massively supersonic++" or whatever). All I can go on is feats and calculations, then explain my positions, as I did earlier.

For example, Goku was faster than lightning in Dragon Ball (which is dwarfed many times over by DBZ) yet one of Jin's "feats" is dodging lightning, as if it is supposed to be impressive. Same for his pole destroying the moon, Roshi did that in early Dragon Ball. So if he has Dragon Ball level feats, why should I think he can stand against DBZ level opponents? That's my logic anyway.

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PreCrisisBardock

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9 craps on him

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Jiraiya_sageofoil

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Jin lose to nappa? The insult is real.

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IRHP87

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Jin lose to nappa? The insult is real.

I am very open to trying to understand why I am wrong. All I can do is go off the respect thread someone posted and compare it to DBZ.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87:For example, Goku was faster than lightning in Dragon Ball (which is dwarfed many times over by DBZ) yet one of Jin's "feats" is dodging lightning, as if it is supposed to be impressive.

Dont find anything wrong with what you said. A feat is a feat. Although i dont remember which feat youre referencing.

Same for his pole destroying the moon, Roshi did that in early Dragon Ball

I dont see the problem with anything said here.

I'm not good at quantifying these things (I assume you mean when people say things like "massively supersonic++" or whatever). All I can go on is feats and calculations, then explain my positions, as I did earlier

By feats Jin stomps everyone in Saiyan Saga. Easy. What Feats does Nappa have to say he even scratches Jin? Nappa (By feats) is a City buster at best with Mountain level durability (Im really giving here) at best. People in DBZ have great destruction feats (usually) but their durability and speed feats be extremely lacking. It appears that you've forgotten that

So if he has Dragon Ball level feats, why should I think he can stand against DBZ level opponents? That's my logic anyway.

Thats some crazy logic

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IRHP87

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#33  Edited By IRHP87

@justsomerandomkid: "By feats Jin stomps everyone in Saiyan Saga. Easy. What Feats does Nappa have to say he even scratches Jin? Nappa (By feats) is a City buster at best with Mountain level durability (Im really giving here) at best. People in DBZ have great destruction feats (usually) but their durability and speed feats be extremely lacking. It appears that you've forgotten that"

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/goku/4005-19765/forums/goku-is-faster-than-light-1464475/

Goku is faster than lightning by King Piccolo Saga, so 260.

Before I continue on about Power Levels I should note that Power Levels do not scale linearly, so someone with a Power Level of 10 won't justbe twice as strong as someone with a Power Level of 5, but just to simplify things for argument's sake we'll pretend they do. Now, Goku's Power Level at the time of those speed feats was 180 or under (can't remember but it was no higher than 180, though probably under, especially the RR Saga feat, but we're going with his King Piccolo Saga PL of 260 to be safe).

Nappa's Power Level is over15x higher than Goku's 260 (we'll just further simplify things by saying that he is only 15x), so we know he is at least 15x above lightning (which JIn "can dodge"), so he should be blitzing the hell out of Jin.

Also, Master Roshi was moon busting at 180 (some attempt to use the argument that his buff form has a much higher Power Level but since he couldn't beat King Piccolo we know he is below 260, so 255 tops and that's a huge "for argument's sake" right there). So Nappa is also over 15xabove a moon buster (over 22x if we go by Roshi's 180, ftr).

So we have Nappa at bare minimum 15x moon and 15x lightning, lowballing HARD.I think it's safe to say that Jin's not able to meet Nappa's destructive power nor speed, unless I missed a reason why Jin is above Nappa.

I have a feeling you're the type to pretend that direct character feats on panel are the only things that matter, though, so I don't think you're going to even accept the lowball I threw, and I doubt we're going to be on the same page.

"Thats some crazy logic"

It's really not. It's common sense.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87:

So we have Nappa at bare minimum 15x moon and 15x lightning, lowballing HARD.I think it's safe to say that Jin's not able to meet Nappa's destructive power nor speed, unless I missed a reason why Jin is above Nappa.

This tells me enough about you, right here. This is why people on CV dont like DBZ fans. They throw around random multipliers and numbers as if that should explain everything.

I have a feeling you're the type to pretend that direct character feats on panel are the only things that matter, though, so I don't think you're going to even accept the lowball I threw, and I doubt we're going to be on the same page.

Im not the "type" of anything. This is how the majority of CV thinks. Feats. Not faulty ABC logic with a bunch of mutipliers to add on to it.

It's really not. It's common sense

I truly wish it was, but its not.

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IRHP87

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@justsomerandomkid: "This tells me enough about you, right here. This is why people on CV dont like DBZ fans. They throw around random multipliers and numbers as if that should explain everything."

Except they aren't random, and it explains a lot, but not everything.

"Im not the "type" of anything. This is how the majority of CV thinks. Feats. Not faulty ABC logic with a bunch of mutipliers to add on to it."

You told me that I'm a "type" in different words. We've both measured each other up is what it comes down to, and I don't care how the majority of CV thinks, I'm not a sheep (nice of you to speak for everyone, though). The only thing faulty around here is your thinking, you throw common sense out the window. DBZ is the easiest series to apply this kind of logic to since it literally works around it.

"I truly wish it was, but its not."

I have a hunch most people who deny this type of logic are secretly uber lowballing DBZ. They don't want Z FIghters to be stronger than their favorites so they try to limit them to how they decide their strength is decided rather than Toriyama or people with functioning brains. We know Yamcha can moonbust and just because we don't see him do it doesn't mean a damn thing.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87: *Sighs* Wanted to avoid this but alright.

"Except they aren't random, and it explains a lot, but not everything"

You're right they're not. They're just fan calcs. Understandable.

"You told me that I'm a "type" in different words. We've both measured each other up is what it comes down to, and I don't care how the majority of CV thinks, I'm not a sheep (nice of you to speak for everyone, though)"

I don't speak for everyone. This is literally how CV is ran. By feats:

Use Feats

Feats are, essentially, evidence of ability to back up an argument.

When looking at feats, be objective. Do critical analysis and unravel the context behind the feats; don’t take them at face value.

"The only thing faulty around here is your thinking, you throw common sense out the window."

That fact that you place your faith in some ABC logic is faulty enough. I'm truly tired of arguing this same subject. Debated this ABC logic multiple times and have seen multiple people do the same.

"DBZ is the easiest series to apply this kind of logic to since it literally works around it."

Agreed. But only within its verse does it work perfectly. (Or near perfectly USS Trunks vs Cell contradicts the power level logic)

"I have a hunch most people who deny this type of logic are secretly uber lowballing DBZ"

I just believe it's bull when a person says Nappa is 15x Lightning and 15x moon buster (or that he can beat Jin lol)

"They don't want Z FIghters to be stronger than their favorites so they try to limit them to how they decide their strength is decided rather than Toriyama or people with functioning brains."

But but how can Z fighters be stronger than themselves (DBZ are my favs)? I'm truly just disagreeing against this whole Nappa logic.

"We know Yamcha can moonbust and just because we don't see him do it doesn't mean a damn thing."

Us not seeing him actually means quite a lot. You can keep following your multiplier logic nonsense. I distaste arguing with people who are obviously going to stay rooted in their "logic".

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Superalexiy

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Stops at SSJ2 Gohan(manages to hold back a solar system buster while weakened.)

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IRHP87

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#38  Edited By IRHP87

@justsomerandomkid: "You're right they're not. They're just fan calcs. Understandable."

DBZ runs on math. It isn't a fan calculation to say that Goku's Power Level in Kaioken x2 is 10,000 if his Power Level is 5,000. This is called math. The series is built around Power Levels and that's indisputable. If you don't like it too bad, but that's how it is. If someone has a Power Level of 10 and another has a Power Level of 5, and PL 5 can lift 100 pounds, then we know PL 10 can pick up at least 200 pounds. This is logic. This is math. This is Power Levels. This is Dragon Ball. I don't know what else to tell you.

"Use Feats

Feats are, essentially, evidence of ability to back up an argument.

When looking at feats, be objective. Do critical analysis and unravel the context behind the feats; don’t take them at face value."

Power Levels are a type of feat, you just can't visually see what they're capable of. PL10 is above PL5, that's just how it is, because if PL5 can lift 100 lbs then we know what PL10 can do 200 minimum. It eliminates the necessity of seeing a feat but is still one. You want someone to go against the way the Dragon Balll universe and author state it works and that isn't logical. Since you're trying to be technical, I can do that better:

"feat fēt /noun

  1. an achievement that requires great courage, skill, or strength."

"a·chieve·mentəˈCHēvmənt/noun

  1. 1.a thing done successfully, typically by effort, courage, or skill."

We don't need to see a thing, simply having a higher Power Level than someone is a feat (an achievement, which is a thing done successfully). Nowhere in these definitions do we see that they require one to witness them for them to count, so simply having a higher Power Level than someone else is, by definition, a feat. If you want to ignore the actual definitions then ComicVine says a feat is "evidence of ability," which a Power Level is in Dragon Ball.

You are stuck on seeing feats, you're ignoring the part of the rules about being objective, doing critical analysis. "Remember: try to be objective." By flat-out handwaving Power Levels you're being anything butobjective.

"That fact that you place your faith in some ABC logic is faulty enough. I'm truly tired of arguing this same subject. Debated this ABC logic multiple times and have seen multiple people do the same."

I place my faith in how Toriyama decides his manga works, and how the universe itself dictates as much. If you disagree with how Toriyama run his manga, go tell him to change it.

"Agreed. But only within its verse does it work perfectly. (Or near perfectly USS Trunks vs Cell contradicts the power level logic)"

Different universes weren't meant to be mixed. If we do, then Power Levels exist, you can't dismiss them if we're comparing characters since that's how Nappa's power works. If you just want to put Nappa in Jin's world then that isn't very fair but maybe Jin would beat him, then. It sure seems that if you put Jin in Nappa's world he would be a small fry, though. The best thing to do is just say that they would each win in their own universe, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm curious, what do you mean by that supposed contradiction?

"But but how can Z fighters be stronger than themselves (DBZ are my favs)? I'm truly just disagreeing against this whole Nappa logic."

But why? Going by feats, Nappa destroyed a city. King Piccolo destroyed a city. Goku beat King Piccolo. Goku beat Nappa. So is King Piccolo on Nappa's level? No, of course not. Nappa has a stronger Power Level and Goku beat them both when hewas at different Power Levels. Do you see? It comes back to PLs. We can't get away from them, so we just need to accept that is how DBZ logic works. We can't restrict characters to visual feats in DBZ or villains get weaker in some cases, or don't advance beyond who came before them.

"Us not seeing him actually means quite a lot. You can keep following your multiplier logic nonsense. I distaste arguing with people who are obviously going to stay rooted in their "logic"."

So you don't like arguing with people like yourself, then.

Us not seeing him means less than nothing, actually. Yamcha surpassed Kami's Power Level, and Kami said there was nothing left he could teach Yamcha, and that he would need to go and continue training on his own. Kami was above Roshi who blew up a moon. You're telling me that Yamcha, who is above Kami, who is above Roshi who destroyed a moon...cannot destroy a moon? Kami's Power Level is merely 220...Yamcha is at 1,480, over 6x his Power Level. But he can't blow up the moon?

...Because we didn't see him do it? Haha, that is just literally ridiculous. Yamcha has no reason to do that, but we knowhe can. We know it. You know it. I know it. That guy knows it.

Look, I think we're both being a little rude, and I apologize if I came off wrong, but if you really still think Yamcha can't destroy a moon then I think we're never going to agree on even bigger points, and we should just agree to disagree.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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@irhp87: "DBZ runs on math. It isn't a fan calculation to say that Goku's Power Level in Kaioken x2 is 10,000 if his Power Level is 5,000. This is called math"

DBZ most definitely does NOT run on math. It runs on who screams the longest. I was being sarcastic with saying fan calcs.

"Power Levels are a type of feat, you just can't visually see what they're capable of."

Then it's not a feat. A feat is a person actually doing something extraordinary.

"We don't need to see a thing, simply having a higher Power Level than someone is a feat (an achievement, which is a thing done successfully). Nowhere in these definitions do we see that they require one to witness them for them to count, so simply having a higher Power Level than someone else is, by definition, a feat."

I can't believe someone actually believes this.

"If you want to ignore the actual definitions then ComicVine says a feat is "evidence of ability," which a Power Level is in Dragon Ball."

Just because you say it's feat doesn't mean it is.

"You are stuck on seeing feats, you're ignoring the part of the rules about being objective, doing critical analysis"

I would love to be objective but you haven't posted a single feat on Nappa busting a moon 15x over. I'm getting on about feats so heavily because in the beginning you said: "All I can go on is feats and calculations, then explain my positions, as I did earlier"

And yet Nappa barely have any feats to go off of.

"place my faith in how Toriyama decides his manga works, and how the universe itself dictates as much. If you disagree with how Toriyama run his manga, go tell him to change it."

PL is all nice in well in his verse but against others that "PL logic" needs to be turned down a notch Or else it doesn't make sense.

"The series is built around Power Levels and that's indisputable"

I've already agreed to this. Outside of its verse is when things get iffy.

"If you don't like it too bad, but that's how it is. If someone has a Power Level of 10 and another has a Power Level of 5, and PL 5 can lift 100 pounds, then we know PL 10 can pick up at least 200 pounds. This is logic. This is math. This is Power Levels. This is Dragon Ball. I don't know what else to tell you."

I don't think you understand what I'm really debating here. I'm not debating that logic, I'm debating the type of logic where a person with a PL of 1 busted a planet therefore a person with a power level 10 can bust a planet 10x over. That's dumb. I won't deny that the person with a PL of 10 is a planet buster but that's dumb to believe he can bust a planet 10x over based merely off of that.

"Different universes weren't meant to be mixed. If we do, then Power Levels exist, you can't dismiss them if we're comparing characters since that's how Nappa's power works. If you just want to put Nappa in Jin's world then that isn't very fair but maybe Jin would beat him, then. It sure seems that if you put Jin in Nappa's world he would be a small fry, though. The best thing to do is just say that they would each win in their own universe, I suppose."

You're either low balling or don't truly understand why Jin is above Saiyan Saga characters (at the least). I'm trying to advoid debating between Nappa and Jin (because I made this thread). Take up your belief with the others in this thread.

"Anyway, I'm curious, what do you mean by that supposed contradiction?"

USS trunks power level was above Cell and yet Cell was still above USS Trunks. That contradicts the DBZ logic. By DBZ logic USS>Cell but it was Cell>USS Trunks

"d a city. King Piccolo destroyed a city. Goku beat King Piccolo. Goku beat Nappa. So is King Piccolo on Nappa's level? No, of course not. Nappa has a stronger Power Level and Goku beat them both when hewas at different Power Levels. Do you see? It comes back to PLs. We can't get away from them, so we just need to accept that is how DBZ logic works."

I guess I need to clarify. Not disagreeing with PL's at least not completely. Disagreeing with the multipliers that you made. And the logic that went with why you believe Nappa would beat Jin.

"We can't restrict characters to visual feats in DBZ or villains get weaker in some cases, or don't advance beyond who came before them."

I wished everyone thought the same but that's not the case.

"So you don't like arguing with people like yourself, then."

Ha. I admit that was funny.

"Us not seeing him means less than nothing, actually. Yamcha surpassed Kami's Power Level, and Kami said there was nothing left he could teach Yamcha, and that he would need to go and continue training on his own. Kami was above Roshi who blew up a moon. You're telling me that Yamcha, who is above Kami, who is above Roshi who destroyed a moon...cannot destroy a moon? Kami's Power Level is merely 220...Yamcha is at 1,480, over 6x his Power Level. But he can't blow up the moon?"

Never said that. Again don't think you know what I'm arguing.

"...Because we didn't see him do it? Haha, that is just literally ridiculous. Yamcha has no reason to do that, but we knowhe can. We know it. You know it. I know it. That guy knows it."

That means quite a bit. Go, and try to do a CaV with one of these DBZ characters with barely any feats. I might believe this, you might believe this. But we'll never know because it hasn't been done.

"Look, I think we're both being a little rude, and I apologize if I came off wrong, but if you really still think Yamcha can't destroy a moon then I think we're never going to agree on even bigger points, and we should just agree to disagree."

Never said this. I just dont believe Nappa can beat Jin based off of multipliers combined with ABC logic. That's equivalent to saying Superman loses to Green Arrow. Which is ridiculous. We can agree to disagree.

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Jiraiya_sageofoil

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Jin survived a planet splitting attack and a planet bust while weakened and tired. He stomps nappa very very hard.

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JustSomeRandomKid

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Bump

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Just_Banter

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#42  Edited By Just_Banter

After that chapter you know that this needs to get bumped ASAP

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Sy8000

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With morals off he can apparently multiply his strength by 250,000. Is there any way of knowing when he learned to do that in relation to this thread?

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Gaoron

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#44  Edited By Gaoron
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Just_Banter

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With morals off he can apparently multiply his strength by 250,000. Is there any way of knowing when he learned to do that in relation to this thread?

He used 250k times in the most recent chapter, but he implied that he learned it when he was clearing the floors on the world in the Heavenly Realm.

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lowlaville

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Anyways, Jin is star level, so mid-high tier Cell Saga level right now.

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Sy8000

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@highaccuser said:

With morals off he can apparently multiply his strength by 250,000. Is there any way of knowing when he learned to do that in relation to this thread?

He used 250k times in the most recent chapter, but he implied that he learned it when he was clearing the floors on the world in the Heavenly Realm.

I know. When was he in the Heavenly Realm when this thread was made?

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SirFizzWhizz

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Jin clears.

DB characters are only lightspeed by feats at best. Jin has Picosecond speeds now. Way FTL.

DB characters are 100,000 ton strength area and harm by said attacks. Jin is like Supes, benching planets at this point.

He speed blitz and one shots everyone.

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teenman12

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Stops at 15 or clears

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GoodFella

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#50  Edited By GoodFella

From what I know of Jin: he clears Z for sure, though I don't know how he would do in Super.