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#1 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I've been in a Original Human Torch kick as of late, and I've been loving the team action in Daredevil, but I was wondering, could Daredevil's basically street level ensemble take out Jim in an all out fight?

Human Torch (Jim Hammond)
Human Torch (Jim Hammond)














vs.


Daredevil
Daredevil
Iron Fist
Iron Fist
Black Tarantula
Black Tarantula












(And Master Izo, to lazy to grab my own picture for him)










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#2 Posted by The_Scourge (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

HT wins

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#3 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

Yay! someone responds!

See, when I originally put him up against Firelord, I quickly found out that he was over his head. Now I'm wondering if I made it to easy for him?

I mean, Iron Fist has got some major power ups recently, and Black Tarantula has a pretty good healing factor. Not to mention the fighting skills of all four of them.

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#4 Posted by geraldthesloth (32690 posts) - - Show Bio

Human torch wins quite easily

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#5 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil,Iron Fist,& Black Tarantula..HIDEOUS OVERKILL.

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#6 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

you really think so? You think they have enough power or skill to take on this Powerhouse?

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#7 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"you really think so? You think they have enough power or skill to take on this Powerhouse?"
Jim Hammond? Human Torch? He's a powerhouse? She-Hulk beat him without even hitting him...and Daredevil beat Johnny Storm by himself.With 3 people Jim Hammond (who isn't much different than Johnny) has no chance.
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#8 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

caption
caption
caption
caption
Not A Powerhouse? What would you call this feat?















Or This one?

caption
caption
















And if that's not enough, this one?

caption
caption

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#9 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio

You are aware...those are from a non-canon comic,right?

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#10 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

All of them? They're from two seperate comics.

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#11 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"All of them? They're from two seperate comics."
The ones from Avengers\Invaders are non-canon.None of them prove he's a powerhouse.
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#12 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

*sad face*

I'm wasting all my love on a non-canon series? that's sucks. lol

But still in the other scan, he instantly kills at least six people, and he's even fought Thor back in the day...

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#13 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"*sad face*

I'm wasting all my love on a non-canon series? that's sucks. lol

But still in the other scan, he instantly kills at least six people, and he's even fought Thor back in the day..."
1.Namor fought and beat Thor back in the day..doesn't mean it's logical
2.Killing six people instantly is not even a feat.
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#14 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

Doesn't mean it's logical, true, but it did happen.

I think it's illogical to think that this would be easy for the team to take out the Human Torch. I wouldn't make the fight if I didn't think they had a chance, but I really don't think it would be easy in the slightest.

Tell me one way they could even hurt him early on please

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#15 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

Dude, I just read an Alex Ross interview in which he said Avengers/Invaders is in continuity.

So, yeah, I'd like to say HT is a powerhouse again.

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#16 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"Dude, I just read an Alex Ross interview in which he said Avengers/Invaders is in continuity.

So, yeah, I'd like to say HT is a powerhouse again."
Show me it...Alex Ross is the artist not the writer so I don't know why anyone would even ask him....
What Human Torch is doing to Sentry is PIS even if it is canon.
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#17 Edited by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

Alex Ross is the writer, not the artist. He does the covers, not the interiors.

You want to see the interview? Ok, I actually have three, all of them say it's canon

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125258
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151725
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=11195



Do you want more scans? I can find other things that he's done, even though I don't feel I need to, seeing as I think you'll somehow disagree with whatever I have. "It's not cannon! He's not evn the writer! It's Illogical!"



EDIT: Did not mean to underline all this... but it's not letting me fix it now, so, you may have to copy and past those links, sorry man!

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#18 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"Alex Ross is the writer, not the artist. He does the covers, not the interiors.

You want to see the interview? Ok, I actually have three, all of them say it's canon

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125258
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151725
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=11195



Do you want more scans? I can find other things that he's done, even though I don't feel I need to, seeing as I think you'll somehow disagree with whatever I have. "It's not cannon! He's not evn the writer! It's Illogical!"
"
1.I just looked it up...Alex Ross is the co-writer and he does the covers.Jim Kreugar is the actual writer.
2.If you think Sentry can be hurt by fire...you don't know what Sentry is capable of.You can show me more scans but there is no Human Torch..Hammond or Storm who is a powerhouse.I could be wrong but I doubt it.

My 3 arguments non -cannon is valid.Feats are exaggerated in non-canon comics.
He's not even the writer wasn't really an argument.
It's Illogical makes sense.Hurting someone who emits enough energy to blow up a planet being hurt by fire is retarded and as far as Hammond fighting Thor...Ghost Rider,Namor,and the Vision back in the day had success with beating Thor.You cannot use feats that the characters aren't actually capable of.Nobody I just named actually has any chance against Thor.
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#19 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Nitric said:
"Alex Ross is the writer, not the artist. He does the covers, not the interiors.

You want to see the interview? Ok, I actually have three, all of them say it's canon

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125258
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151725
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=11195



Do you want more scans? I can find other things that he's done, even though I don't feel I need to, seeing as I think you'll somehow disagree with whatever I have. "It's not cannon! He's not evn the writer! It's Illogical!"
"
1.I just looked it up...Alex Ross is the co-writer and he does the covers.Jim Kreugar is the actual writer.
2.If you think Sentry can be hurt by fire...you don't know what Sentry is capable of.You can show me more scans but there is no Human Torch..Hammond or Storm who is a powerhouse.I could be wrong but I doubt it.

My 3 arguments non -cannon is valid.Feats are exaggerated in non-canon comics.
He's not even the writer wasn't really an argument.
It's Illogical makes sense.Hurting someone who emits enough energy to blow up a planet being hurt by fire is retarded and as far as Hammond fighting Thor...Ghost Rider,Namor,and the Vision back in the day had success with beating Thor.You cannot use feats that the characters aren't actually capable of.Nobody I just named actually has any chance against Thor.
"


1. I have the comics sitting right next to me, I just read three articles. Alex Ross and Kreugar are co-writers, but Ross is the main one behind it.

2. Being set on fire from the inside out is different than just "being hurt by fire"


Your non-canon argument is not valid Vance. I just proved that to you. Everything I showed was in canon.

And I will show some more scans if you'd like, get ready for my next post. lol
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#20 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Nitric said:
"Alex Ross is the writer, not the artist. He does the covers, not the interiors.

You want to see the interview? Ok, I actually have three, all of them say it's canon

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=125258
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=151725
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=11195



Do you want more scans? I can find other things that he's done, even though I don't feel I need to, seeing as I think you'll somehow disagree with whatever I have. "It's not cannon! He's not evn the writer! It's Illogical!"
"
1.I just looked it up...Alex Ross is the co-writer and he does the covers.Jim Kreugar is the actual writer.
2.If you think Sentry can be hurt by fire...you don't know what Sentry is capable of.You can show me more scans but there is no Human Torch..Hammond or Storm who is a powerhouse.I could be wrong but I doubt it.

My 3 arguments non -cannon is valid.Feats are exaggerated in non-canon comics.
He's not even the writer wasn't really an argument.
It's Illogical makes sense.Hurting someone who emits enough energy to blow up a planet being hurt by fire is retarded and as far as Hammond fighting Thor...Ghost Rider,Namor,and the Vision back in the day had success with beating Thor.You cannot use feats that the characters aren't actually capable of.Nobody I just named actually has any chance against Thor.
"


1. I have the comics sitting right next to me, I just read three articles. Alex Ross and Kreugar are co-writers, but Ross is the main one behind it.

2. Being set on fire from the inside out is different than just "being hurt by fire"


Your non-canon argument is not valid Vance. I just proved that to you. Everything I showed was in canon.

And I will show some more scans if you'd like, get ready for my next post. lol"
1.I have the comics right on my computer.Alex and Kreugar co-wrote the plot...Kreugar wrote the script.
2.You CANNOT hurt Sentry with Fire....he emits energy hotter than what Human Torch does.

non-cannon is a valid argument if the comic had been non-cannon.I dropped that argument.
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#21 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

oohhhhh, sorry, I didn't understand that part completely, yes, it is a great argument when it's true.


some more scans.

Torch getting lit up with artillery fire and shrugging it off.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders_32-03.jpg

Engaging and incinerating multiple enemies on another occasion
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Untitled-Scanned-10.jpg

Getting lit up again, while not in flames, and recovering almost instantly (these are consecutive pages)
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders082005page19.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders082005page21.jpg

Using his powers when he very well shouldn't be able to in an atempt to boil someone's blood from the inside out:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/AvengersInvanders-019.jpg

And Plus -
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Torch_Saga_03_06.jpg
He killed Hitler.



I'm not saying Daredevil's team *couldn't* win. I just think it's kinda unlikely. Unless Danny (My favorite Marvel character, so I'm not being biased towards torch) can learn to like, use some DBZ moves with his chi, lol

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#22 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"oohhhhh, sorry, I didn't understand that part completely, yes, it is a great argument when it's true.


some more scans.

Torch getting lit up with artillery fire and shrugging it off.
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders_32-03.jpg

Engaging and incinerating multiple enemies on another occasion
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Untitled-Scanned-10.jpg

Getting lit up again, while not in flames, and recovering almost instantly (these are consecutive pages)
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders082005page19.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Invaders082005page21.jpg

Using his powers when he very well shouldn't be able to in an atempt to boil someone's blood from the inside out:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/AvengersInvanders-019.jpg

And Plus -
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa197/namorsubby/original%20human%20torch/Torch_Saga_03_06.jpg
He killed Hitler.



I'm not saying Daredevil's team *couldn't* win. I just think it's kinda unlikely. Unless Danny (My favorite Marvel character, so I'm not being biased towards torch) can learn to like, use some DBZ moves with his chi, lol

"
1.He didn't shrug off artillery fire...it didn't even hit him.Read what he says..."it can't get through my flames".He burned it.
2.Burning people when you have the ability to manipulate fire..isn't a feat.
3.Taking Machine Gun fire? He doesn't have to be on fire to take that..he's not even human..he's an android.
4.Again..not a feat
5.Killing Hitler isn't a feat..I could have done that.

Point one-She-Hulk beat Jim Hammond & Toro with a truck full of sand.
It's not unlikely DD's team will win.They have all beaten more powerful people than Jim Hammond
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#23 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
1.He didn't shrug off artillery fire...it didn't even hit him.Read what he says..."it can't get through my flames".He burned it.
2.Burning people when you have the ability to manipulate fire..isn't a feat.
3.Taking Machine Gun fire? He doesn't have to be on fire to take that..he's not even human..he's an android.
4.Again..not a feat
5.Killing Hitler isn't a feat..I could have done that.

Point one-She-Hulk beat Jim Hammond & Toro with a truck full of sand.
It's not unlikely DD's team will win.They have all beaten more powerful people than Jim Hammond

1. Well, that's basically what I meant. If he can just burn artillery shells without thinking about it - How are any of these four going to hurt him?
2. But instant kills? I think that's a feat.
3. Exactly, he isn't human, bullets ripping through him and he heals instantly, what is a punch for Matt Murdock gonna do?
4. I'm gonna come back to this is a second
5. I know this one really doesn't mean anything, it was more or less just for fun

and on your point - She-hulk beating him with a truck full of sand is more illogical then him taking out Sentry. He can use his flames when frozen, in the scan for number 4, and I can even show a scan were he kept his flames going at the bottom of the OCEAN.
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#24 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:

1. Well, that's basically what I meant. If he can just burn artillery shells without thinking about it - How are any of these four going to hurt him?
2. But instant kills? I think that's a feat.
3. Exactly, he isn't human, bullets ripping through him and he heals instantly, what is a punch for Matt Murdock gonna do?
4. I'm gonna come back to this is a second
5. I know this one really doesn't mean anything, it was more or less just for fun

and on your point - She-hulk beating him with a truck full of sand is more illogical then him taking out Sentry. He can use his flames when frozen, in the scan for number 4, and I can even show a scan were he kept his flames going at the bottom of the OCEAN."
1.Burning metal doesn't mean anything...he's on fire.They can use the environment to put his fire out than Black Tarantula and Iron Fist can go to town on him.Iron Fist wrecked a train with one punch and Black Tarantula is class 25.He could easily rip Hammond apart.
2.Instantly killing humans with fire is not a feat.It just proves he's extremely hot.
3.Who said Matt Murdock was going to punch him?
4..........
5........

No..She-Hulk beating Toro and Hammond with a truck full of sand is completely logical.It was 4 tons of sand she led them to the truck and than knocked the sand on to them..putting their fires out and making them to heavy to get up.
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#25 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

He survived at the bottom of the ocean, with all that pressure, and all that WATER, and remained on fire.

That puts your points to rest I believe.

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#26 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"He survived at the bottom of the ocean, with all that pressure, and all that WATER, and remained on fire.

That puts your points to rest I believe."
What comic did this happen in? 
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#27 Posted by The_Scourge (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?

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#28 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to.
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#29 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Nitric said:
"All of them? They're from two seperate comics."
The ones from Avengers\Invaders are non-canon.None of them prove he's a powerhouse."

No they're not. It's very much in 616 continuity.
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#30 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Nitric said:
"All of them? They're from two seperate comics."
The ones from Avengers\Invaders are non-canon.None of them prove he's a powerhouse."

No they're not. It's very much in 616 continuity."
I already realized my mistake.
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#31 Posted by Alexander Anderson (4306 posts) - - Show Bio

Nitric's scans cement this as a searing, flaming curbstomp. 

  



Through fire and flames, Daredevil and Co. won't be carrying on.
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#32 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"fesak said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Nitric said:
"All of them? They're from two seperate comics."
The ones from Avengers\Invaders are non-canon.None of them prove he's a powerhouse."

No they're not. It's very much in 616 continuity."
I already realized my mistake."

Mkay, didn't read the whole thread.
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#33 Posted by The_Scourge (5345 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond
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#34 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
Fresh Prince said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond"

Jim Hammond can also go Nova, though i'm not sure he can attain the same extreme temperatures as Johnny. He is immune to fire and heat, significantly strong, able to match Namor's strength, and he's been trained in h2h by Captain America, Also being an android he doesn't need to sleep or eat.

I would definitely give this match to Hammond. I don't see how the others can do anything against him.
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#35 Edited by The_Scourge (5345 posts) - - Show Bio

Well Hammond should win then if he just goes nova on them

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#36 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Fresh Prince said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond"
Daredevil beat Johnny twice.
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#37 Posted by mira (1545 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree.

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#38 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond"

Jim Hammond can also go Nova, though i'm not sure he can attain the same extreme temperatures as Johnny. He is immune to fire and heat, significantly strong, able to match Namor's strength, and he's been trained in h2h by Captain America, Also being an android he doesn't need to sleep or eat.

I would definitely give this match to Hammond. I don't see how the others can do anything against him."
Actually Fesak....Jim Hammond is nowhere near Namor's strength level...and he was trained by Cap but so was Wanda & Quicksilver and they aren't very good fighters.
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#39 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"fesak said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond"

Jim Hammond can also go Nova, though i'm not sure he can attain the same extreme temperatures as Johnny. He is immune to fire and heat, significantly strong, able to match Namor's strength, and he's been trained in h2h by Captain America, Also being an android he doesn't need to sleep or eat.

I would definitely give this match to Hammond. I don't see how the others can do anything against him."
Actually Fesak....Jim Hammond is nowhere near Namor's strength level...and he was trained by Cap but so was Wanda & Quicksilver and they aren't very good fighters."

He's fought Namor to a standstill on several occasions, but thinking about it it might have been due to Namor's water fatigue.
Still he's no pushover. And for the fighting skills i don't have the handbooks available, but he's listed at 5/7 at marvel.com
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#40 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Vance Astro said:
"fesak said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Vance Astro said:
"Fresh Prince said:
"Cant Hammond just go Supernova and kill them all?"
Not even if he wanted to."
But cant Johnny go supernova? So is Jim weaker than Johnny? Sorry I don't really know Jim Hammond"

Jim Hammond can also go Nova, though i'm not sure he can attain the same extreme temperatures as Johnny. He is immune to fire and heat, significantly strong, able to match Namor's strength, and he's been trained in h2h by Captain America, Also being an android he doesn't need to sleep or eat.

I would definitely give this match to Hammond. I don't see how the others can do anything against him."
Actually Fesak....Jim Hammond is nowhere near Namor's strength level...and he was trained by Cap but so was Wanda & Quicksilver and they aren't very good fighters."

He's fought Namor to a standstill on several occasions, but thinking about it it might have been due to Namor's water fatigue.
Still he's no pushover. And for the fighting skills i don't have the handbooks available, but he's listed at 5/7 at marvel.com"
It's CIS...Hammond is no stronger than Daredevil.If he's listed as a 5 even assuming in the handbook...Black Tarantula is the only other 5 here.
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#41 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio

Well it doesn't matter much. One nova blast and it's over. Maybe two if  Black Tarantula still is standing.

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#42 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Well it doesn't matter much. One nova blast and it's over. Maybe two if  Black Tarantula still is standing."
I don't see that happening.
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#43 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"fesak said:
"Well it doesn't matter much. One nova blast and it's over. Maybe two if  Black Tarantula still is standing."
I don't see that happening."

So, he has taken down Ares and Ms Marvel, how come you think Daredevil or Iron Fist is more durable?
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#44 Edited by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Vance Astro said:
"fesak said:
"Well it doesn't matter much. One nova blast and it's over. Maybe two if  Black Tarantula still is standing."
I don't see that happening."

So, he has taken down Ares and Ms Marvel, how come you think Daredevil or Iron Fist is more durable?"
No..I don't think he can hurt Ares and Ms.Marvel.He was also shown to hurt Sentry who gets his energy from the sun..how much sense does that make? Ms.Marvel should be hurt by fire either..not even Nova level.I'm not saying Daredevil and Iron Fist can take a Nova blast..I am saying they aren't going to be close enough.
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#45 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio
Alexander Anderson said:
"Nitric's scans cement this as a searing, flaming curbstomp. 

  



Through fire and flames, Daredevil and Co. won't be carrying on."

Ha ha, I'm not trying to make it a curbstomp, just more of an even battle.

And I believe I read somewhere, I'll find it and post scans if possible, that this Human Torch can go super nova much easier than Johnny Storm. And, he does have a degree of super-strength - definitely more so than Daredevil. Dunno if it's better than Tarantula's, but it's existent.
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#46 Posted by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
Nitric said:
"Alexander Anderson said:
"Nitric's scans cement this as a searing, flaming curbstomp. 

  



Through fire and flames, Daredevil and Co. won't be carrying on."

Ha ha, I'm not trying to make it a curbstomp, just more of an even battle.

And I believe I read somewhere, I'll find it and post scans if possible, that this Human Torch can go super nova much easier than Johnny Storm. And, he does have a degree of super-strength - definitely more so than Daredevil. Dunno if it's better than Tarantula's, but it's existent.
"
Human Torch doesn't have super strength.
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#47 Posted by fesak (8661 posts) - - Show Bio

You're underestimating him greatly. He's defeated many powerful characters, aside from those in Avengers/Invaders he  managed to kill Iron Man in Avengers 132 (he was resurrected in GS Avengers 3). He's also defeated Johnny Storm, Namor, Thena of the Eternals and stalemated Thor.
In all he is very underestimated, probably because most people don't know him. Great to see him getting a little respect in Avengers/Invaders.

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#48 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"You're underestimating him greatly. He's defeated many powerful characters, aside from those in Avengers/Invaders he  managed to kill Iron Man in Avengers 132 (he was resurrected in GS Avengers 3). He's also defeated Johnny Storm, Namor, Thena of the Eternals and stalemated Thor.
In all he is very underestimated, probably because most people don't know him. Great to see him getting a little respect in Avengers/Invaders."

Agreed.

I have the scans of him killing Iron Man... I don't have any for the others though sadly...
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#49 Edited by vance_astro (90095 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"You're underestimating him greatly. He's defeated many powerful characters, aside from those in Avengers/Invaders he  managed to kill Iron Man in Avengers 132 (he was resurrected in GS Avengers 3). He's also defeated Johnny Storm, Namor, Thena of the Eternals and stalemated Thor.
In all he is very underestimated, probably because most people don't know him. Great to see him getting a little respect in Avengers/Invaders."
None of these fights are logical..I name a whole bunch of PIS wins for the other characters in this fight as well.Daredevil did well against Namor & Thor himself.
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#50 Posted by Nitric (871 posts) - - Show Bio

how is it PIS when he does it so consistently? That's the level he's at, right alongside Thena, Namor, (Not Thor, I'll give you that, that was bad writing)...

And, recently, Daredevil did take on the Wrecking Crew and the Enforcers at the same time. : )