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#51 Edited by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3 said:
@kilius said:
@thevivas said:

@kilius: Is Yoda the only Jedi in this fight?

What point of mine are you addressing?

Arkham keeps insisting Telepathy will break Thor(since obviously he has even Yoda beat in all other categories). I'm pointing out that Yoda who is the most powerful of the bunch never used TP in combat even when it wouldn't conflict with his morals; like avoiding unnecessary violence in the Jedi Temple when battling the Clone Troopers.

I mean Mace can replicate the telepathy feat as well.

Mace's only TP feat is falling to dominate Cad Bane with the help of Anakin and Kenobi.

Loading Video...

Yeah that's TCW but then again what other TP feats in Legends(Which TCW is technically apart of) does Mace have?

I'd argue with morals off he'd do it.

Jedi do this sort of thing Morals on. It would be in Yoda's character to do so if he could; not turn them into fighting slaves no, but pacify them. That Yoda didn't do so at the Temple tells me he can't, certainly not to someone as strong willed as Thor or Cap. Don't bring up Wanda because she's a haxed reality warper, what Jedi do with TP isn't even remotely comparable to her reality warping powers.

Don't see why Mace doesn't just Force Crush all of their hearts in R2 like he did against Grievous.

He only did that to a Grievous who wasn't fighting him; in Labyrinth of Evil Mace had to face him head to head when the distance was closed. Clearly he can't do this in active combat going by showings. Also seriously doubt he can do it to Thor who is more powerful than him.

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#52 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: Yeah that's TCW but then again what other TP feats in Legends(Which TCW is technically apart of) does Mace have?

Once again TCW isn't an accurate measurement of Legends abilities at all.

And Mace has the scaling from Lord Vivicar presented earlier for TP feats.

Jedi do this sort of thing Morals on. It would be in Yoda's character to do so if he could; not turn them into fighting slaves no, but pacify them. That Yoda didn't do so at the Temple tells me he can't, certainly not to someone as strong willed as Thor or Cap. Don't bring up Wanda because she's a haxed reality warper, what Jedi do with TP isn't even remotely comparable to her reality warping powers.

@thevivas outlined this already so I'm not going to bother responding.

He only did that to a Grievous who wasn't fighting him; in Labyrinth of Evil Mace had to face him head to head when the distance was closed. Clearly he can't do this in active combat going by showings. Also seriously doubt he can do it to Thor who is more powerful than him.

You know Mace has the other Jedi to protect him while he focuses on crushing all of their hearts.

And why does Thor being more powerful matter exactly if he is? He has no feats to suggest he can protect himself against such an attack.

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#53 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: Yeah that's TCW but then again what other TP feats in Legends(Which TCW is technically apart of) does Mace have?

Once again TCW isn't an accurate measurement of Legends abilities at all.

And Mace has the scaling from Lord Vivicar presented earlier for TP feats.

Jedi do this sort of thing Morals on. It would be in Yoda's character to do so if he could; not turn them into fighting slaves no, but pacify them. That Yoda didn't do so at the Temple tells me he can't, certainly not to someone as strong willed as Thor or Cap. Don't bring up Wanda because she's a haxed reality warper, what Jedi do with TP isn't even remotely comparable to her reality warping powers.

@thevivas outlined this already so I'm not going to bother responding.

He only did that to a Grievous who wasn't fighting him; in Labyrinth of Evil Mace had to face him head to head when the distance was closed. Clearly he can't do this in active combat going by showings. Also seriously doubt he can do it to Thor who is more powerful than him.

You know Mace has the other Jedi to protect him while he focuses on crushing all of their hearts.

And why does Thor being more powerful matter exactly if he is? He has no feats to suggest he can protect himself against such an attack.

I guess what it comes down to is "Jedi win do to TP because of "scaling". But based on performances from the actual source material, they lose.

As for Mace's Force Crush, yes Thor being more powerful matters. Thor is imbedded with Odin Force, it's a powerful aura that Mace has to be able to overcome, unlike a non-Force sensitive Grievous. Not to mention Thor is physically a hell of a lot more durable than Grievous's armor, so even if he couldn't passively resist it, I'd betcha he could manually counter the attempt or just tank it all together.

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#54 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe Luke moved a pseudo-black hole, but at the other end there are those who struggle to lift the top of a basket. Does Thor have feats that resist Mind Hax on lukes level tho (see video above)? I don't think so. And Luke, at the most obscene Lowball can mindhax 100 Quadrillion sentient beings across the Galaxy. This isn't even counting non-sentients or the rest of the universe. Basically, most Luke matches go like this - (See below)

Does the opponent resist Luke's mind hax?

Yes, Luke dies.

No, Luke wins.

He didn't "mindhax" them. He only sent out a telepathic call.

Luke continued to look out over the dark water. He had spent the last week deep in meditation, sending a Force-call to the entire Jedi Order… In every arm of the galaxy, Masters had suspended negotiations, Jedi Knights had dropped investigations, apprentices had withdrawn from combat. There were a few Jedi stranded on off-lane worlds without transport and a couple unable to suspend their activities without fatal consequences, but for the most part, his summons had been honored.

Dark Nest III: Swarm War

Although Luke did overpower Unuthul in a telepathic battle and the latter draws his power from an entire Killik Colony consisting of trillions. So Luke basically scales from that.

He mind controlled the population of Byss to cover-up the construction of a Star Destroyer.

Telepathically dominating Byss and mind-wiping trillions while burrying the Lusankya are two completely different feats. The latter was done on Coruscant. And they were done by Sidious, not Luke.

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#55 Edited by Aristeaus (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:

Why do people keep using thor like this... Lightning aint gonna do much against those Jedi... you... you know... can absorb and deflect lightning with bare hands. Even the lower end ones use their lightsabers to block that stuff.

Iron Man is MVP here, not Thor.

Stormbreaker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sith Lightning.

Literally no evidence of that. Lightning is lightning.

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#56 Edited by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus said:
@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:

Why do people keep using thor like this... Lightning aint gonna do much against those Jedi... you... you know... can absorb and deflect lightning with bare hands. Even the lower end ones use their lightsabers to block that stuff.

Iron Man is MVP here, not Thor.

Stormbreaker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sith Lightning.

Literally no evidence of that. Lightning is lightning.

Yes there is, Thor's lighting feats are vastly superior to any Force user.

Put it this way, Obi Wan deflected Dooku's lighting easily with his lightsaber, but Mace and Yoda had serious difficulty with Sidious's. Clearly there are different levels of power in lightning. So to argue Sith Lightning = Stormbreaker you have to do a feat comparison and Stormbreaker's feats are on a much greater magnitude than Sidious's.

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#57 Posted by Aristeaus (940 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:
@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:

Why do people keep using thor like this... Lightning aint gonna do much against those Jedi... you... you know... can absorb and deflect lightning with bare hands. Even the lower end ones use their lightsabers to block that stuff.

Iron Man is MVP here, not Thor.

Stormbreaker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sith Lightning.

Literally no evidence of that. Lightning is lightning.

Yes there is, Thor's lighting feats are vastly superior to any Force user.

Put it this way, Obi Wan deflected Dooku's lighting easily with his lightsaber, but Mace and Yoda had serious difficulty with Sidious's. Clearly there are different levels of power in lightning. So to argue Sith Lightning = Stormbreaker you have to do a feat comparison and Stormbreaker's feats are on a much greater magnitude than Sidious's.

Thors lightning feats are against fodder. It has no relevant feats here.

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#58 Edited by TheVivas (19266 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: “Don't bring up Wanda because she's a haxed reality warper, what Jedi do with TP isn't even remotely comparable to her reality warping powers.”

What kind of an argument is this? Wanda has TP just like the Jedi do, you can’t all of a sudden say “Wanda is different because she’s a reality warper” when you have no actual argument for why Thor *wouldn’t* get TP’d.

“I guess what it comes down to is "Jedi win do to TP because of "scaling". But based on performances from the actual source material, they lose.”

How in the world did you come to this conclusion? Because you have no actual counter argument for why Thor isn’t TP’d?

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#59 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:
@kilius said:
@Aristeaus said:

Why do people keep using thor like this... Lightning aint gonna do much against those Jedi... you... you know... can absorb and deflect lightning with bare hands. Even the lower end ones use their lightsabers to block that stuff.

Iron Man is MVP here, not Thor.

Stormbreaker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sith Lightning.

Literally no evidence of that. Lightning is lightning.

Yes there is, Thor's lighting feats are vastly superior to any Force user.

Put it this way, Obi Wan deflected Dooku's lighting easily with his lightsaber, but Mace and Yoda had serious difficulty with Sidious's. Clearly there are different levels of power in lightning. So to argue Sith Lightning = Stormbreaker you have to do a feat comparison and Stormbreaker's feats are on a much greater magnitude than Sidious's.

Thors lightning feats are against fodder. It has no relevant feats here.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Top that.

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#60 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas:

What kind of an argument is this? Wanda has TP just like the Jedi do, you can’t all of a sudden say “Wanda is different because she’s a reality warper” when you have no actual argument for why Thor *wouldn’t* get TP’d.

What TP feats does Yoda have? Exactly none. His close second Mace Windu failed to TP someone with a strong will, like Captian America who Wanda TPed. Wanda can TP strong willed individuals via feats. Jedi are limited to the weak minded as demonstrated by Mace's failing.

How in the world did you come to this conclusion? Because you have no actual counter argument for why Thor isn’t TP’d?

What I'm saying is that the only arguments in favor of the Jedi is scaling from TOR, which is ridiculously exaggerated compared to other PT works. When you try to make a case based off performances from the actual source material in which the Jedi listed appear, they simply don't compare.

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#61 Edited by TheVivas (19266 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: “What TP feats does Yoda have? Exactly none. His close second Mace Windu failed to TP someone with a strong will, like Captian America who Wanda TPed.”

The simple fact that you’re using one TP feat from TCW to try and lowball Mace and even Yoda already suggests that you don’t actually know what you’re talking about and that this conversation is a waste of my time.

“Wanda can TP strong willed individuals via feats.”

Wanda TP’d people who don’t have any TP resistance feats. Yoda or Mace can do the exact same, or any other Jedi in the pictures in the OP, since they’ll be going against characters who have no feats of resisting said attacks.

“Jedi are limited to the weak minded as demonstrated by Mace's failing.”

So Mace’s one feat, from a medium that isn’t a part of Legends (which this battle is using) and showcases Jedi and Force users at a lower level than they are portrayed in Legends, suddenly proves that any character in fiction with a strong will can resist a Jedi’s TP? Not buying that terrible excuse at all.

“What I'm saying is that the only arguments in favor of the Jedi is scaling from TOR, which is ridiculously exaggerated compared to other PT works.”

What scaling? Yoda needs only scaling from other PT characters and their TP to suggest he can TP Thor. And who cares if it’s exaggerated? You’re willing to use TCW, which in turn lowballs the Jedi and their abilities, so why can’t others use TOR?

“When you try to make a case based off performances from the actual source material in which the Jedi listed appear, they simply don't compare.”

Thor doesn’t have any TP resistance feats at all, but you’re willing to give him and even Cap the benefit of the doubt. If you tried to make a case from the actual source material in which the Avengers listed appear, they simply can’t counter *any* TP attack from the Jedi.

So which is it? Thor gets TP’d because he doesn’t have any feats to defend agaisnt it, or he gets TP’d because he doesn’t have any feats to defend agaisnt it?

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#62 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas:

So Mace’s one feat, from a medium that isn’t a part of Legends (which this battle is using) and showcases Jedi and Force users at a lower level than they are portrayed in Legends, suddenly proves that any character in fiction with a strong will can resist a Jedi’s TP? Not buying that terrible excuse at all.

First TCW is a part of Legends, like it or not(and I don't). There are plenty of Legends only works that reference's it, even non-Clone Wars era works such as Fate of the Jedi.

And it's not just TCW, it's pretty well established that Jedi can only dominate the weak-minded.

"The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded."

"You weak-minded fool! He's using an old Jedi mind trick!"

"Are you going to use one of your Jedi mind tricks on me?" "They only work on the weak minded"

I can show some Legends only examples as well; here's one for TPM Maul:

"He extinguished his lightsaber, hung it on his belt, and bent to pick up the holocron. Before his fingers touched it, however, he sensed that he was not alone.

“Don’t move!” came a voice from the door even as he realized this. “You so much as breathe deep and I’ll fry you where you stand!”

Maul glanced at the doorway. A tall human female in shell spider silk armor stood there, aiming a pair of blasters at him.

Maul realized that this was the same being he had sensed following him earlier. His lips switched in annoyance. He tried a quick mental probe, but the bounty hunter – for surely that was what she was – was too sharp, her attention too focused, to fall for mind tricks.

Maul considered his options. He would never reach his lightsaber fast enough, even as quick as he was. He might be able to dodge a single blast, maybe even two, but hemmed in as he was in this small cubicle against a woman who could likely put a dozen bolts into the air from two semiautomatic blasters in half a second, he would have to have a distraction." Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

And another for Darth Plagueis(I'm paraphrasing btw but the gist is there and I don't want to free hand type it):

"You dishonor you're heritage and your weapon Jedi" "You could have used the Force to compel us to do as you wish, I've not only seen it but experienced it"

"If you have so little willthen you are of no use to me". ~ Page 51

Cap and Thor are not weak-minded. There is no logical reason to believe Mace or Yoda could TP them and no feats to support it.

What scaling? Yoda needs only scaling from other PT characters and their TP to suggest he can TP Thor.

Do you have an example from the PT era? Bear in mind we are talking about Jedi not dark siders. Just because it's morals off doesn't mean they get to learn new random specialized abilities they never show cased before like memory walk.

And who cares if it’s exaggerated? You’re willing to use TCW, which in turn lowballs the Jedi and their abilities, so why can’t others use TOR?

Well now I provided non-TCW examples from sources that don't lowball Jedi/Sith(Shadow Hunter is a large source for Maul's speed hype) and they both point to mind tricks; which is the only TP ability these Jedi have, only work on the weak minded.

People can use the TOR scaling; I just personally prefer to go by what the source material already establishes of their strengths and limits. I mean Maul can't influence a featless non-Force sensitive bounty hunter(In a source where Maul gets much of his hype) but Mace who's only a little bit more powerful than Maul can do the converse to a god of thunder who has withstood the power of a star?

Thor doesn’t have any TP resistance feats at all, but you’re willing to give him and even Cap the benefit of the doubt. If you tried to make a case from the actual source material in which the Avengers listed appear, they simply can’t counter *any* TP attack from the Jedi.

He doesn't need any, no more than Padme who Anakin admitted he couldn't mind trick. He and Cap have strong minds and wills. Mace and Yoda nor any of the other Council members have any more powerful TP abilities besides the mind trick which won't work on the strong willed. Wanda isn't limited to the weak minded(never established) so her TPing Thor is irrelevant to Thors ability to resist the Jedi.

So which is it? Thor gets TP’d because he doesn’t have any feats to defend agaisnt it, or he gets TP’d because he doesn’t have any feats to defend agaisnt it?

Yoda and Mace can't TP him because they don't have any feats to influence a strong willed individual such as Thor.

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#63 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2421 posts) - - Show Bio

TheVivas ragdolling.

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#64 Posted by TheVivas (19266 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: I’ll try and get a reply up tomorrow after work if I remember. Late here and I don’t feel like going into another room for computer access.

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#65 Edited by KeenCraft (744 posts) - - Show Bio

Hahahahaha

Thor solos

@Aristeaus said:

Why do people keep using thor like this... Lightning aint gonna do much against those Jedi... you... you know... can absorb and deflect lightning with bare hands. Even the lower end ones use their lightsabers to block that stuff.

No Caption Provided

Lightning is lightning.

No Caption Provided

"Reborn Acolyte" (JKIII series) = Malgus = Sidious = Thor = my electrical outlet

@kilius said:

Stormbreaker >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sith Lightning.

👍

@arkhamasylum3 said:

And Mace has the scaling from Lord Vivicar presented earlier for TP feats.

No he doesn't

Just for fun however, prove the Jedi Vivicar TP'd have better shrewd will conditioning than: Cad Bane or a single Dagoyan, let alone Black Widow. Lmao apparently those Jedi scale below Bane

Koenig: "This baby measures galvanic skin response, oxygen consumption, micro-expressions, biofeedback brain waves, pupil dilation, voice biometrics - 96 variables in all. Fury designed this himself. He wanted a lie detector Romanoff couldn't beat."

Ward: Did She?

Koenig: Pft, Like Fury would tell!

Hell, just her being a top tier agent, even in the real world, gives her a stronger will than anyone those Jedi have successfully mindtricked

And even Jessica Jones resisted Kilgrave's TP in proximity to him lmao

"Windu: You will let me inside."

"Dagoyan: You should know better, Master Jedi. That will not work on a Dagoyan."

- The disappeared

https://youtu.be/NqRR71zIBZk

https://youtu.be/73-GmF_ZnJo

https://youtu.be/seqoOnr2ebU

Thor when the Jedi attempt a mind invasion.

https://youtu.be/eUX4XoUtgII

Loading Video...

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#66 Posted by Greysentinel365 (6037 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi slaughter. Yoda, Mace, Anakin and Obi-Wan could solo.

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#67 Posted by ExplodingPlanet (42 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor solos this with ease nothing they could do to him

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#68 Posted by KeenCraft (744 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor solos this with ease nothing they could do to him

I only do Star Wars but this thread is kek. It's why cross universe can be hilarious

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#69 Posted by Richard96 (5652 posts) - - Show Bio

What versions of the Jedi? Movie? They get rekt. Legends? They stomp.

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#70 Posted by Rebake (3897 posts) - - Show Bio

Seems one-sided no matter which versions, just different directions...

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#71 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1271 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor solos this with ease nothing they could do to him

Except, yah know TP.

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#72 Posted by JackKira89 (538 posts) - - Show Bio

if it is the 2003 versions too.....jesus the jedi in there are beast.

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#73 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@explodingplanet said:

Thor solos this with ease nothing they could do to him

Except, yah know TP.

The only TP these Jedi have are mind tricks and even a Windu caliber Jedi as demonstrated by Cad Bane when he Anakin and Obi Wan subjected him to one at the same time, couldn't subdue him with the Force.

Go to post #62 even in Legends only works a TPM Maul and Plagueis level Force users can't mind trick strong willed beings.

This TP nonsense is pure fanfiction.

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#74 Posted by Killerwasp (17299 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll make this clear

Movie versions - star wars loses

Canon - Could go either way, but some of the comics got the jedi displaying some pretty impressive feats so prolly side with them after a tough fight

Legends - SW stomps

Get over it nerds

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#75 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16273 posts) - - Show Bio

Canon Jedi die.

EU Jedi murk.

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#76 Posted by JacenSolo77 (1271 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: Using a couple low showings doesn't prove anything, even low level SW characters have TP that can destroy these guys yet scale massively below Yoda or Windu.

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#77 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft:

No he doesn't

Except he does.

TPM Mace>Revan per accolades so yeah he gets Lord Vivicar scaling.

Just for fun however, prove the Jedi Vivicar TP'd have better shrewd will conditioning than: Cad Bane or a single Dagoyan, let alone Black Widow. Lmao apparently those Jedi scale below Bane

Lmao. I'm using Legends so no TCW and no lowballing. If you want to use that Dooku can lose to 15 pirates lol.

Hell, just her being a top tier agent, even in the real world, gives her a stronger will than anyone those Jedi have successfully mindtricked

Excpet Jedi unlike Widow have TP resistance. She has no TP resistance feats at all lol.

And even Jessica Jones resisted Kilgrave's TP in proximity to him lmao

I've watched the show man. Don't think you can ommit context and get away with it. She resisted him because she had special immunity against his TP not because she actuaolly has TP resistance.

You've proven absolutely nothing. Jedi destroy them instantly.

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#78 Edited by noah_ouellette (3512 posts) - - Show Bio

Anakin, Mace, yoda or Kenobi solo with legends feats. Anakin has comic feats putting him at Mach speeds in combat. The rest directly scale from him.

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#79 Posted by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas said:

@kilius: I’ll try and get a reply up tomorrow after work if I remember. Late here and I don’t feel like going into another room for computer access.

Please do. I don't have the energy to make case against it.

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#80 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@keencraft:

No he doesn't

Except he does.

TPM Mace>Revan per accolades so yeah he gets Lord Vivicar scaling.

Just for fun however, prove the Jedi Vivicar TP'd have better shrewd will conditioning than: Cad Bane or a single Dagoyan, let alone Black Widow. Lmao apparently those Jedi scale below Bane

Lmao. I'm using Legends so no TCW and no lowballing. If you want to use that Dooku can lose to 15 pirates lol.

Hell, just her being a top tier agent, even in the real world, gives her a stronger will than anyone those Jedi have successfully mindtricked

Excpet Jedi unlike Widow have TP resistance. She has no TP resistance feats at all lol.

And even Jessica Jones resisted Kilgrave's TP in proximity to him lmao

I've watched the show man. Don't think you can ommit context and get away with it. She resisted him because she had special immunity against his TP not because she actuaolly has TP resistance.

You've proven absolutely nothing. Jedi destroy them instantly.

How Vivicar corrupt the Jedi? Surely some method more sophisticated than a mind trick.

Point remains none of these Jedi have any esoteric TP abilities outside of Mind Tricks which even in non-TCW Legends works, as I pointed out with Maul and Plagueis won't work on strong willed individuals.

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#81 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: Using a couple low showings doesn't prove anything, even low level SW characters have TP that can destroy these guys yet scale massively below Yoda or Windu.

We're talking about Jedi not Dark Siders who have access to esoteric TP abilities like memory walk and sorcery.

Koon and Tiin have non-combinative TP outside of mind tricks which is the only thing these Jedi have, including Yoda and Windu. Just because it's morals off doesn't mean they suddenly have access to specialized TP abelites they've never learned.

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#82 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius:

How Vivicar corrupt the Jedi? Surely some method more sophisticated than a mind trick.

Point remains none of these Jedi have any esoteric TP abilities outside of Mind Tricks which even in non-TCW Legends works, as I pointed out with Maul and Plagueis won't work on strong willed individuals.

Read section IX of Ant's second post to see why Vivicar dominating hundereds of Jedi was TP here.

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#83 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius:

How Vivicar corrupt the Jedi? Surely some method more sophisticated than a mind trick.

Point remains none of these Jedi have any esoteric TP abilities outside of Mind Tricks which even in non-TCW Legends works, as I pointed out with Maul and Plagueis won't work on strong willed individuals.

Read section IX of Ant's second post here to see why Vivicar dominating hundereds of Jedi was TP here.

Even still Mace has never demonstrated TP outside of Mind Tricks. Just because it's morals off doesn't mean he has access to abilites he once never had. And I already showed in a non-TCW Legends works that even TPM Maul and Plagueis can't bend strong willed beings to their will with mind tricks; and Maul is a Sith taught by Sidious. If he could have gotten out of his situation with TP he would have but confirmed he couldn't:

"He extinguished his lightsaber, hung it on his belt, and bent to pick up the holocron. Before his fingers touched it, however, he sensed that he was not alone.

“Don’t move!” came a voice from the door even as he realized this. “You so much as breathe deep and I’ll fry you where you stand!”

Maul glanced at the doorway. A tall human female in shell spider silk armor stood there, aiming a pair of blasters at him.

Maul realized that this was the same being he had sensed following him earlier. His lips switched in annoyance. He tried a quick mental probe, but the bounty hunter – for surely that was what she was – was too sharp, her attention too focused, to fall for mind tricks.

Maul considered his options. He would never reach his lightsaber fast enough, even as quick as he was. He might be able to dodge a single blast, maybe even two, but hemmed in as he was in this small cubicle against a woman who could likely put a dozen bolts into the air from two semiautomatic blasters in half a second, he would have to have a distraction." Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Yeah still not seeing Morals off Windu who is only a little bit more powerful than Maul who is always Morals Off TPing Thor who had the willpower to deal with the power of a star.

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#84 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@kilius: Might respond later if I have the energy.

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#85 Edited by KeenCraft (744 posts) - - Show Bio
@arkhamasylum3 said:

@keencraft:

No he doesn't

Except he does.

TPM Mace>Revan per accolades so yeah he gets Lord Vivicar scaling.

Lol, except he doessn't. That accolade means lint.

Alongside Mace Windu, with whom he served on the Jedi Council, Yoda was the most respected and most powerful Master ever to have walked the corridors of the Jedi Temple.

-Star Wars Fact Files

Nothing vis-à-vis with Revan.

Since the destruction of the original temple during the Sacking of Coruscant, the Jedi Temple on Tython has become the spiritual home and sanctuary of the Jedi Order. Housing meditation rooms, lecture theaters and the Jedi Archives, the temple’s architecture was deliberately changed from the original on Coruscant, in line with the Jedi philosophy of non-attachment.

-Star Wars: The Old Republic - Codex; The Jedi Temple

Those aren't even the same "corridors of the Jedi Temple". Also, Karness Muur shows that Revan is ahead of TpM MacE WinDU.

Yoda only gets scaling. And scaling still doesn't prove dirt when Windu has repeated faulty telepathic capabilities as a preponderant showing in Legends material. Until you can provide a higher showing for him, even if the scaling applied, he would be more powerful but his TP remains trash.

Lmao. I'm using Legends so no TCW and no lowballing. If you want to use that Dooku can lose to 15 pirates lol.

Lol that's going to be my new go-to line. Okay, I'm using Legends too, so no SWTOR. Now Mace and even Yoda magically get no scaling. 👍

TCW is Legends all the way up until the very last episode unfortunately for you, as are the 6 movies in conjunction with their novelizations.

Excpet Jedi unlike Widow have TP resistance. She has no TP resistance feats at all lol.

TP resistance comes from mental conditioning and sheer willpower smart one 🙃. Yes, even in Star Wars. It's the reason all sources like TCSWE point to TP being mostly ineffectual on strong minds. It's also the reason Revan can TP a HUTT (great feat), and fail on a conditioned Sith Soldier lmao. It's also why Meetra Surik can TP a Toydarian and fail on Malak's elite Sith shocktroopers. Funny how even in the medium they scale from, Vitiate, who scales far ahead of Vivicar, can fail to TP non Force sensitives along with Revan and Meetra Surik, who can TP hutts and toydarians yet fail on random imperial soldiers.

Those Jedi Vivicar TP'd? Yeah, no They don't haveTP resistance feats at all. Widow? She has the conditioning, but even she couldn't resist someone that has reality warping high tier Mind Gem level TP.

Whereas Thor? He didn't even get fully TP'd. She opened his mind to a real vision of Ragnarok but it didn't put him down iirc, unlike Captain America and Black Widow who saw actual hallucinations and were mush, two lower tiers who you still haven't proven Mace Windu can even TP yet based on sCaLinG.

And even Jessica Jones resisted Kilgrave's TP in proximity to him lmao

I've watched the show man. Don't think you can ommit context and get away with it. She resisted him because she had special immunity against his TP not because she actuaolly has TP resistance.

You've proven absolutely nothing. Jedi destroy them instantly.

She developed immunity because of her physiology. Thor is far beyond her level lmao.

Are you going to show Mace Windu's telepathic manipulation feats that counterbalance Cad?

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#86 Posted by JOVIOLMA (5614 posts) - - Show Bio

Large Planet Level Thor solos.

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#87 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1087 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi.

Simply put, they are too fast. Speed is big issue in MCU. By far the fastest character, Quicksilver, was killed by bullets while in star wars most jedi younglings are bullet timers, while some of the high tiers like Sidious or Mace were quoted to move in and out of reality with their speed while fighting at 100%. Telekinesis and telepathy makes every jedi pretty much Wanda level hax user and lightsabers which bypass covnentional durability will guarantee one shots even against the likes of Hulk or Iron man.

This is sadly a missmatch.

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#88 Posted by Lucano (3409 posts) - - Show Bio

So are these the Legends versions of the Jedi? Or current canon? If they are the Legends versions this is a mismatch of epic proportions. Really, a shitstomp beyond imagination.

Current Canon is a good fight, but Avengers should be able to win a solid majority in every round, mostly thanks to Thor.

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#89 Posted by TheVivas (19266 posts) - - Show Bio

@arkhamasylum3: I kind of don’t want to reply anymore. Killius is showing me that he doesn’t want to accept TOR scaling because they “exaggerate” their character’s abilities (and because he wouldn’t have any counter to TP if he did accept it), wants to believe that Yoda, a Jedi who’s lived for 800 years and has been touted as the strongest embodiment of the light side up and to ROTS, doesn’t know how to use any TP of any sort outside of mind tricks and that it won’t work regardless because 1) Cad Bane resisted theee Jedi trying to use TP on him in a show that severely underplays Jedi and their abilities and isn’t a part of Legends anymore, 2) Jedi use Mind Tricks agaisnt weak-minded individuals due to morals more than anything but because the fans have been reminded of this throughout SW history that means anyone who isn’t an idiot is somehow immune to it, and 3) Thor being TP’d by Scarlet Witch =/= the Jedi can do so despite Thor having no TP resistance feats because what she does is “reality warping” and the Jedi using a cosmic power that lives in all living things and binds the galaxy together to influence the minds of others won’t work because Maul and Plagueis failed to do so, ignoring the fact that these aren’t one-on-one situations like in the example she brought up (which STILL don’t prove that Mace or Yoda couldn’t TP Thor).

So yeah, not really finding the energy to run in circles when I could be playing Red Dead instead.

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#90 Edited by IshaeniTolog (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on how much stock you put into the idea that many of the Legends Jedi fighting at relativistic speeds (see ROTS novelization, Obi-wan blocking a barrage of metal bullets in the comics, that time where Yoda dodged the simultaneous attacks of 3 council members, and MANY other examples) and use the force to teleport, sense the weakest point in any object and where to apply pressure to break it, and even drain the life out of entire planets (see Revan, Jacen, and GM Luke; see the Shatterpoint technique; see Nhilius, Vitiate, and Sidious) Because if that's the standard then this is a MASSIVE mismatch. 10/10 to the Jedi EASILY.

If we're going with the stance that they're just casual bullet-timers with really good pre-cog, then Thor, Iron Man, and Doctor Strange (maybe Spider man, but I'd take any Jedi Knight in a fight against MCU spidey) would probably be able to put up a decent fight after everyone else died in the first 10 seconds. But lightsabers can block Thors lightning attacks and Ironman's photon blasts should be reflectable.

The two wildcards would be Dr. Strange (but I thing the Jedi would eventually take him out) and The fact that Thor might not take damage from a lightsaber (see the star-tanking feat). Assuming the Jedi could figure out how to beat Strange and at least incap Thor then there's not really anything left to stop someone like Yoda or Windu. 7.5/10 to the Jedi.

(This isn't even considering to possibility that the Jedi would just be able to mentally dominate most of the Avengers.)

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#91 Edited by ArkhamAsylum3 (3445 posts) - - Show Bio

@thevivas: Yeah I really don't feel up to responding either TBH. I might just leave this thread at that and let them have the last word.

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#92 Posted by ElSebbe (319 posts) - - Show Bio

Jedi stomps.

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#93 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (6216 posts) - - Show Bio

The Avengers win eventually, but probably with significant casualties.

The Jedi can carve through most of the Avengers, but they're gonna really struggle against the heavy hitters who are mobile. After Infinity War, Iron Man and Thor are gonna be incredibly hard to deal with. They can just keep out of range and rain down repulsor blasts and lightning from above.

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#94 Posted by Kilius (1571 posts) - - Show Bio

Jango Fett was able to give Mace Windu an extended fight according to the AotC's novelization, replace Jango with IW Iron Man, who is infinitely faster, more durable, and versatile, you have a stomp on your hands. Cap and Black Panther can compete with the lower Council members; I'm assuming Vibranium can stop a lightsaber and they should be comparable in speed and reflexes to Jango Fett being that they are enhanced humans. WS is less able do to his lack of Vibranum defenses(his arm isn't comparable to a shield or suit) so he should go down relatively quick in close quarters.

The only way the Jedi bring down Hulk is by using some form of serene light side Force technique to somehow calm Hulk down and turn him back into Bruce, otherwise they have no means of physically putting him down. In character it's questionable if they would know to do that before he kills them.

Thor still solos. You can't compare a mortal vessel with limited access to their power to a bona fide god.

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#95 Posted by Myleftbuttcheeksolos (408 posts) - - Show Bio

Legends anyone of the Jedi solos.

Canon Movie versions listed here, still Jedi. Only Yoda survives though.