Jean Grey (X-men 97) runs the MCU Wanda Gauntlet

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justneedhelp

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#1  Edited By justneedhelp  Online

The Gauntlet

1. AOU Wanda

2. CW Wanda

3. IW Wanda

4. EG Wanda

5. WV Wanda

6. The Scarlet Witch

7. Clears

The Rules

1. In Character

2. Begin 50ft apart

3. Random encounter

4. No time to prep

5. Fight to the Death or Knockout

6. The battle is located on Knowehere

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Straight-Fire

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She's not making it past AOU Wanda.

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nassergrant19

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#3  Edited By nassergrant19
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geekryan

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#4  Edited By geekryan

Stops at CW Wanda, since today's episode of X-Men 97 gave Jean her best TK feat.

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w3b

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Makes it to wandavision at least. She’s already shown the ability to counter telepathy better than Wanda ever has by countering her clone mind warping the x-men. Her tk & speed is at the same level as peak Wanda at least so I can see Jean clearing

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BigBaby

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Soratoumiga

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DarkRealm

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Doesn't even make it past winter soldier Wanda

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PyroFN

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Stops at Civil War Wanda. Anyone who says otherwise is either severely low-balling or simply has not watched the show.

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Koays

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stops at 2

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PimpKingMegasus

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#11  Edited By PimpKingMegasus

Which one of these Wanda has psychic defense to stop a psi bolt? She has feats of engaging in mental combat (which freezes her physically) but no actual way to shield from a knock out psi blast. Her psychic fights happen because her mind isn't shielded.

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TheDevil98

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#12 TheDevil98  Online

Wanda literally has no TP defence/combat feats till MoM. So Jean stops there.

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😭😭😭

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PimpKingMegasus

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@thedevil98: she didn't have defenses in that either. Xavier casually entered her mind and America escaped because she couldn't do anything in the real world while telepathically engaged.

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geekryan

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#15  Edited By geekryan

womp womp

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Straight-Fire

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#16  Edited By Straight-Fire

Heh.

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rajjarsalt

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#17  Edited By rajjarsalt
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@thedevil98: she didn't have defenses in that either. Xavier casually entered her mind and America escaped because she couldn't do anything in the real world while telepathically engaged.

Xavier entered the variant's mind, and Wanda killed him easily. Nor was it telepathic engagement either, it was the multiverse magic of dreamwalking.

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PimpKingMegasus

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#19  Edited By PimpKingMegasus

@rajjarsalt: was defenseless from telepathic engagement and that variant was buried, Wanda was the dominant. So she failed to protect herself from intrusion. No tp defense.

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Justaxviel

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@rajjarsalt: was defenseless from telepathic engagement and that variant was buried, Wanda was the dominant. So she failed to protect herself from intrusion. No tp defense.

Yet in the end, professor failed to stop her. TP isn't the supreme card for reality warping, unless 97 jean had a feats against a high level reality warper

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PimpKingMegasus

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#21  Edited By PimpKingMegasus

@justaxviel: he didn't try to stop her directly in the mindscape, he tried to free the variant. He did however stop her reality warping and awareness of reality by telepathically engaging her mind. Jean here has actual astral combat feats and my point is Wanda being so easily engaged telepathically means the knock out psi bolt Jean used on Cyclops gets her everytime.

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rajjarsalt

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#22  Edited By rajjarsalt
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@rajjarsalt: was defenseless from telepathic engagement and that variant was buried, Wanda was the dominant. So she failed to protect herself from intrusion. No tp defense.

Buried by who? Buried from where?

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rajjarsalt

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#23  Edited By rajjarsalt
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@justaxviel: he didn't try to stop her directly in the mindscape, he tried to free the variant. He did however stop her reality warping and awareness of reality by telepathically engaging her mind. Jean here has actual astral combat feats and my point is Wanda being so easily engaged telepathically means the knock out psi bolt Jean used on Cyclops gets her everytime.

Engaging someone telepathically does not mean one can defeat them telepathically, Wanda Maximoff is a good example. No wanking the Summer's sausage either, that Xavier that fought Wanda was a FOX/TAS variant.

In any case if entering someone's mind is so impressive, astrally neck snapping that person would rate much higher. In any case the Scarlet Witch isn't being dropped by a mere psi-bolt lol

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PimpKingMegasus

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#24  Edited By PimpKingMegasus

@rajjarsalt: no it wasn't the TAS variant and if it was it was PIS. TAS Xavier himself was buried under psychic rubble by Dark Phoenix and shifted himself into a giant to break free. TAS Xavier would have freed the variant and ended the dreamwalk, based on that one feat alone. MoM Xavier is in Earth-838. TAS is in Earth-92131. TAS Xavier is not British.

The second paragraph is irrelevant. If you can't block your mind being entered you can't block a psi bolt.

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del_torro

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#25 del_torro  Online

Probably stops at 2

Jeans recent TK feat (plus tk scaling to maddy and maybe magneto) should overpower CW Wandas TK.

IW and EG had her throwing war engines, breaking the mind stone while pushing back Thanos, breaking his Uru blade etc

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PimpKingMegasus

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@del_torro: with 0 tp defense. This Jean is just as likely if not more likely to use tp, especially since this season started. Jean has feats from the early 90s Wanda can't protect herself from.

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BigBaby

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#27  Edited By BigBaby
@thedevil98 said:

Wanda literally has no TP defence/combat feats till MoM. So Jean stops there.

This is the most generic fallacy someone can commit. Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. Wanda had no prior TP defense feats in Wandavision, but she still busted out the astral realm through sheer power against Agatha in a mental fight. Do you see the logic here? AOU Wanda can do the same thing too, since there's no actual skill involved in overwhelming Jean with raw power. And AOU Wanda's got plenty of raw power over Jean.

Even if(hypothetically) there's no evidence for "Wanda to shield against Jean", the same applies vice versa: what's stopping AOU Wanda from mind-controlling Jean, as she did to the Sokovian residents? Jean doesn't even possess any defenses against mind-control, or illusions near Wanda's scale, which she used frequently, so how does she defend against it? Her best feat is manipulating the astral realm against Madelyne, but that's not consistent for her, nor does it counter the attacks here.

And if we're comparing telekinesis, Jean's best feat still pales in comparison to AOU Wanda. She carried a medium-sized block from a building and held apart some water, whereas Wanda stopped an accelerated train in motion during AOU, and ripped out Ultron's Core, damaging his Vibranium suit in the process (that had also just tanked a combined attack from Thor, Iron Man, and Vision)

AOU Wanda's also faster on the draw and can disintegrate her quite easily:

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PimpKingMegasus

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#28  Edited By PimpKingMegasus

Psi bolt takes tp defenseless Wanda down all rounds.

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geekryan

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womp womp

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TheWatcherKing

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I need to get around to watching the show but can someone list Jean’s feats so far

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TheOneWhoDoesSo

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IW Wanda onwards should win.

She does has telepathy feats so I’m tired of people saying otherwise.

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@thewatcherking: She overwhelmed Madelyn Pryor's telepathy on multiple occasions sometimes casually. Madelyn could affect the whole rest of the X-Men with ease.

Jean also caught the top of a skyscraper that was falling and threw it across multiple city blocks. And could clash with a super sentinel that oneshotted the rest of the team.

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#33  Edited By PyroFN
@thewatcherking said:

I need to get around to watching the show but can someone list Jean’s feats so far

In basic terms, adding og series feats to a competent current series Jean,

OG Telepathy

-(Season 4, Episode 16) Teamed with Xavier in a psychic battle with Shadow King, repeatedly doing maneuvers like combining powers with Xavier to overpower Shadow King

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and using psychic chains to restrain Shadow King from doing any actual harm to Xavier

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(Sorry for the potato quality of some scans. Please bear with me. If you would like to confirm yourself, I will also cite what season and episodes they are from)

-(Season 2, Episode 9) While on Cerebro, Jean enters into Rogue's mind and traps Ms. Marvel in a cage that helps Rogue completely trap Carol

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-(Season 1, Episode 8) While on Cerebro, Jean mind-wipes Juggernaut without his helmet

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-(Season 3, Episode 3) Jean conjures an illusion for Peter Corbeau to believe the X-Men are his astronaut team (Season

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-(Season 3, Episode 3) Jean one-shots Cyclops with a psychic bolt (as point out by PimpKingMegasus multiple times in this thread)

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-(Season 3, Episode 11-13) Jean repeatedly takes control of the Phoenix Force in the Dark Phoenix Saga ( I will put only two scans as examples, but there are far more examples in the Dark Phoenix Saga of Jean having some semblance of agency over the Phoenix Force)

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-(Season 3, Episode 13) After Charles Xavier calls to Jean Grey for help, Jean helps Charles Xavier defeat and trap Dark Phoenix in her mind,

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merging with his astral form to fully trap Phoenix. Xavier even deliberately states after the fight that he would have had no chance to have beaten Dark Phoenix without her and that the power of her mind was truly awesome in that moment.

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'97 Telepathy

-Jean telepathically undoes a powerful illusion, despite having only minimal control of her powers at the time. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 3)

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-Jean connects to Cyclops and the X-Men getting psychically attacked from a distance, though she had no control of her powers to help quite yet. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 3)

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-With help from Wolverine, Jean manages to focus on his thoughts and memories to allow her to regain control of her own powers. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 3)

-Jean engages in a psychic battle with someone as powerful as her from a distance. I won't say who for certain, but let's just say its very good scaling. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 3)

-Jean connects to someone in Genosha from the X-Mansion. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 5)

-Jean psionically locates a telepath in Genosha, despite the fact that no one had found them for a week. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 7)

-Jean telepathically alerts multiple people on Genosha of a survivor. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 7)

OG Telekinesis

-(Season 1, Episode 5) Jean shreds two steel saw blades thrown at her telekinetically. These circular saw blades are typically made of a sort of steel if they are anything similar to construction saw blades.

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-(Season 1, Episode 8) Removes multiple rubble off the ruins of the mansion

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-(Season 2, Episode 8) Slows the decent of the Blackbird long enough for Rogue to come in and lift it back up

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-(Season 2, Episode 11)Jean creates an tk dome to protect herself and Cyclops from Mojo's electrical bolts from multiple tv sets

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-(Season 2, Episode 11) Jean shields against blaster gunfire by a holographic version of the Punisher

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-(Season 2, Episode 11) While trapped in a virtual reality, Jean telekinetically messes the machinery to fry the circuits and free the X-Men.

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-(Season 2, Episode 13) Jean tosses the remains of Mister Sinister's body up high above his citadel and scatters them out into the waters to keep Sinister from immediately reforming, causing it to take time before Mister Sinister reforms in the series

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-(Season 1, Episode 12) Her best feat in the og series without the Phoenix Force, catching the top of a tower before it falls on top of multiple civilians for an extended period of time. This includes a little girl too scared to move,

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For reference of what the full tower tip looks like that Jean is catching, the breaking point is presumably the area where the energy blast hits it in the scan below,

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And it should also be noted that Rogue could not lift it up fully either, being reduced to kneeling and struggling to hold it up after Jean let's it go. Eventually, the tower collapses over its own weight and Rogue is fine (the little girl saved by Wolverine), but this goes to show just how heavy this structure is, considering the fact that Rogue is by far the strongest physically of any of the X-Men's brawlers.

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-(Season 5, Episode 14) Jean blocks Magneto's electromagnetic attack for an brief period (in the original show, his powers ended up amping her to where she could not control her powers. It is uncertain if this same tactic would work now)

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-(Season 3, Episode 3, 4) Also ironically one of her best feats, while piloting the space shuttle, Jean maintains a telekinetic field to protect her from the Phoenix Force trying to possess her.

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Funny enough, the Phoenix Force was piggy-backing on Lilandra's space craft entrail, which the space shuttle Jean was on had entered.

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'97 Telekinesis

-While levitating, Jean separates the waters of a lake casually, creating multiple orbs containing psychic projections of her memories, all while lifting Wolverine on a solid platform made of water. This was all done with no hint of strain for an extended period of time as Jean is going through an internal mental crisis.

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-Jean telekinetically maneuvers rubble and lifts a mutant survivor. (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 7)

-Jean catches the top half of a damn skyscraper and the rubble around it while lowering Cyclops to the ground. After both her and Cyclops are on solid ground, Jean hurls the top half of the building and its rubble over multiple buildings into a nearby bay!!! (X-Men '97 Season 1, Episode 7)

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-After a Prime Sentinel one-shot Rogue, Beast, Morph (as Quicksilver), AND Wolverine, Jean Grey encases herself in a tactile telekinetic field and matches the Prime Sentinel's speed-blitz three times before getting flanked and sent into a car hard enough to crush it. (X-Men '97 Episode 1, Season 7)

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Jean is later seen back up very shortly with no major injuries, insinuating she was only ko'd for a brief time.

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There is also another character in the series Jean scales off of directly, but I don't know if you plan on watching, so I won't spoil anymore than I have. Lol!

Also, WATCH THE SHOW! IT'S SO GOOOOD!!!!

For context on Rogue's scaling as to why the last tk feat is impressive in X-Men '97, here are some og feats for Rogue,

Someone far more durable than anyone on that team. Did you just forget how durable Rogue is in the show:

-Tanks a prolonged energy beam from Apocalypse. The same Apocalypse whose energy beam clashed with Magneto's magnetic powers to the point where it feedbacks on both of them.

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- Rogue has literally survived being overpowered by Dark Phoenix (pre-D'Bari)

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-She literally got into a long-drawn out fight with Gladiator, taking and dealing multiple direct hits to each other. This same one who effortlessly threw Juggernaut after no-selling a direct punch to him

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-Rogue has tanked full-powered Storm's lightning burst point-blank before

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-Rogue has tanked being entrapped by Proteus and straight broke out of his grasp

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There is a damn good reason why Cyclops literally says, "This guy just took out Rogue with one shot. Do not hold back."

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del_torro

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#34 del_torro  Online

Lol, whew, Jean struggling with the top of a building in original series and throwing half a building casually in the newe series just shows how much she was nerfed in the 90s

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GamerDude77

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She stops at civil war Wanda. Let's see for the last few episodes if she gets more feats to go toe to toe with Infinity War and Endgame.

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rajjarsalt

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#36  Edited By rajjarsalt
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@rajjarsalt: no it wasn't the TAS variant and if it was it was PIS. TAS Xavier himself was buried under psychic rubble by Dark Phoenix and shifted himself into a giant to break free. TAS Xavier would have freed the variant and ended the dreamwalk, based on that one feat alone. MoM Xavier is in Earth-838. TAS is in Earth-92131. TAS Xavier is not British.

The second paragraph is irrelevant. If you can't block your mind being entered you can't block a psi bolt.

"No it can't be! It's stupid, it's plot!"

What a classic coping mechanism. WoG say Earth-838 variant is of TAS Xavier and FOX Xavier. Variant scaling holds in MCU.

You're talking about relevance?

>kills him instantly
>"OH BUT HE ENTERED HER MIND THO!"

X entering while she was "intensively concentrating...exhausting herself mentally and physically" to maintain the Darkhold's multiverse magic, a near-impossible feat in its own right, something that maybe only two sorcerers in all of existence can do, is by no means a proof that she can be one-shot by TP.

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PyroFN

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#37  Edited By PyroFN
@rajjarsalt said:
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@rajjarsalt: no it wasn't the TAS variant and if it was it was PIS. TAS Xavier himself was buried under psychic rubble by Dark Phoenix and shifted himself into a giant to break free. TAS Xavier would have freed the variant and ended the dreamwalk, based on that one feat alone. MoM Xavier is in Earth-838. TAS is in Earth-92131. TAS Xavier is not British.

The second paragraph is irrelevant. If you can't block your mind being entered you can't block a psi bolt.

"No it can't be! It's stupid, it's plot!"

What a classic coping mechanism. WoG say Earth-838 variant is of TAS Xavier and FOX Xavier. Variant scaling holds in MCU.

You're talking about relevance?

>kills him instantly

>"OH BUT HE ENTERED HER MIND THO!"

X entering while she was "intensively concentrating...exhausting herself mentally and physically" to maintain the Darkhold's multiverse magic, a near-impossible feat in its own right, something that maybe only two sorcerers in all of existence can do, is by no means a proof that she can be one-shot by TP.

For gods sake, stop spreading misinformation. From a writer who worked on MoM in a Variety interview,

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/doctor-strange-2-spoilers-scarlet-witch-cameos-1235263318/

**********

I will even do you the favor of quoting the article,

Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

A little bit of both. I don’t know if I’m technically supposed to get into specifics about these actors or characters, but I worked with that performer to even talk about making it different, so it was a different version of him. He uses a line from “Days of Future Past” that he says to Stephen. But also, we drew from the classic cartoon version of that character. He’s a variant who has qualities of a bunch of different versions of those guys from across the multiverse.

For anyone who doesn’t know what the definition of a “variant“ is,

“Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

noun

  1. a form or version of something that differs in some respect from other forms of the same thing or from a standard.

"clinically distinct variants of malaria"”

There you go. Being a variant means a version of something, aka not the same thing. So, unless we want to start applying every feat across the multiverse of a character, I suggest you quit spreading this misinformation.

Xavier in MoM was never animated series Xavier and he never will be. End of story.

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rajjarsalt

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#38  Edited By rajjarsalt
@pyrofn said:
@rajjarsalt said:
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@rajjarsalt: no it wasn't the TAS variant and if it was it was PIS. TAS Xavier himself was buried under psychic rubble by Dark Phoenix and shifted himself into a giant to break free. TAS Xavier would have freed the variant and ended the dreamwalk, based on that one feat alone. MoM Xavier is in Earth-838. TAS is in Earth-92131. TAS Xavier is not British.

The second paragraph is irrelevant. If you can't block your mind being entered you can't block a psi bolt.

"No it can't be! It's stupid, it's plot!"

What a classic coping mechanism. WoG say Earth-838 variant is of TAS Xavier and FOX Xavier. Variant scaling holds in MCU.

You're talking about relevance?

>kills him instantly

>"OH BUT HE ENTERED HER MIND THO!"

X entering while she was "intensively concentrating...exhausting herself mentally and physically" to maintain the Darkhold's multiverse magic, a near-impossible feat in its own right, something that maybe only two sorcerers in all of existence can do, is by no means a proof that she can be one-shot by TP.

For gods sake, stop spreading misinformation. From a writer who worked on MoM in a Variety interview,

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/doctor-strange-2-spoilers-scarlet-witch-cameos-1235263318/

I will even do you the favor of quoting the article,

Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

A little bit of both. I don’t know if I’m technically supposed to get into specifics about these actors or characters, but I worked with that performer to even talk about making it different, so it was a different version of him. He uses a line from “Days of Future Past” that he says to Stephen. But also, we drew from the classic cartoon version of that character. He’s a variant who has qualities of a bunch of different versions of those guys from across the multiverse.

For anyone who doesn’t know what the definition of variant is,

“Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

noun

  1. a form or version of something that differs in some respect from other forms of the same thing or from a standard.

"clinically distinct variants of malaria"”

There you go. Bring a variant means a version of something, aka not the same thing. So, unless we want to start applying every feat across the multiverse of a character, I suggest you quit spreading this misinformation.

Xavier in MoM was never animated series Xavier and he never will be. End of story.

All that only to fumble by posting a dictionary definition of a variant. You don't know what you're talking about - you did not use MCU material to define variants, not even the basic stuff that is considered common knowledge. Nice one.

Interesting how you missed

”Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

A little bit of both

I said he was of both TAS and FOX, didn't I? No need to get so mad about it lol.

The irony is that your caveat is precisely what variant scaling is. Being "variant" suffices for cross-applying feats across a connected multiverse. Perhaps you can write the dictionary definition of out-of-context? ;)

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PyroFN

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@pyrofn said:
@rajjarsalt said:
@pimpkingmegasus said:

@rajjarsalt: no it wasn't the TAS variant and if it was it was PIS. TAS Xavier himself was buried under psychic rubble by Dark Phoenix and shifted himself into a giant to break free. TAS Xavier would have freed the variant and ended the dreamwalk, based on that one feat alone. MoM Xavier is in Earth-838. TAS is in Earth-92131. TAS Xavier is not British.

The second paragraph is irrelevant. If you can't block your mind being entered you can't block a psi bolt.

"No it can't be! It's stupid, it's plot!"

What a classic coping mechanism. WoG say Earth-838 variant is of TAS Xavier and FOX Xavier. Variant scaling holds in MCU.

You're talking about relevance?

>kills him instantly

>"OH BUT HE ENTERED HER MIND THO!"

X entering while she was "intensively concentrating...exhausting herself mentally and physically" to maintain the Darkhold's multiverse magic, a near-impossible feat in its own right, something that maybe only two sorcerers in all of existence can do, is by no means a proof that she can be one-shot by TP.

For gods sake, stop spreading misinformation. From a writer who worked on MoM in a Variety interview,

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/doctor-strange-2-spoilers-scarlet-witch-cameos-1235263318/

I will even do you the favor of quoting the article,

Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

A little bit of both. I don’t know if I’m technically supposed to get into specifics about these actors or characters, but I worked with that performer to even talk about making it different, so it was a different version of him. He uses a line from “Days of Future Past” that he says to Stephen. But also, we drew from the classic cartoon version of that character. He’s a variant who has qualities of a bunch of different versions of those guys from across the multiverse.

For anyone who doesn’t know what the definition of variant is,

“Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages ·

noun

  1. a form or version of something that differs in some respect from other forms of the same thing or from a standard.

"clinically distinct variants of malaria"”

There you go. Bring a variant means a version of something, aka not the same thing. So, unless we want to start applying every feat across the multiverse of a character, I suggest you quit spreading this misinformation.

Xavier in MoM was never animated series Xavier and he never will be. End of story.

All that only to fumble by posting a dictionary definition of a variant. You don't know what you're talking about - you did not use MCU material to define variants, not even the basic stuff that is considered common knowledge. Nice one.

Interesting how you missed

”Where did you draw from to build this version of Professor X? The Fox movies or the comics and the animated series from the 1990s?

A little bit of both

I said he was of both TAS and FOX, didn't I? No need to get so mad about it lol.

The irony is that your caveat is precisely what variant scaling is. Being "variant" suffices for cross-applying feats across a connected multiverse.

I didn’t miss it. Because it wasn’t the main point. And I am annoyed, but not angry. Prod at me and I will get angry. This is your only warning, please respect that.

As for your rebuttal,

A little bit of both

Try putting together a puzzle with a little bit pieces of two separate puzzles and see if the picture comes out the exact same as either.

No Caption Provided

Please stop with the mental hoops. You are wrong, plain and simple.

You want to argue for 838 Xavier, you do it off of the feats he has shown in the movie. No one is believing that TAS series Xavier is the same because he was confirmed not the same.

And until you can point to what aspects the writer intended for 838 Xavier to use from 97 Xavier, you will not use 97 Xavier. If you do, it will only serve to look unfavorably as you would be ignoring a writers actual statement. For your own sake of reputablility, adapt instead of doubling down on a point you know is wrong.

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rajjarsalt

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#40  Edited By rajjarsalt
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PyroFN

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#41  Edited By PyroFN
@rajjarsalt said:

@pyrofn Wait you're being serious? Ugh...

You know Lord Feige himself showed up on 616 Krakoa, right?

No Caption Provided

He won't stop at your 21st century foxy, nor your cartoons, neither!

https://www.thepopverse.com/2024-is-the-year-marvel-studios-marvel-comics-rebuilds-and-is-reborn-with-kevin-feige-fully-in-charge-for-the-first-time

Okay. Good for him.

What does this have to do with anything?

Also, what are you even on about “he won’t stop at your 21st foxy, nor your cartoon”?

Please actually use complete thoughts. You’re not making any sense.

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Mage101

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Wanda literally has no TP defence/combat feats till MoM. So Jean stops there.

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PurplehairedNi1

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@mage101 said:
@thedevil98 said:

Wanda literally has no TP defence/combat feats till MoM. So Jean stops there.

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Hickaris

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PimpKingMegasus

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No tp defense for Wanda.

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Galerion

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@pyrofn: watched it, definitely agree it’s good,

That said Wanda hasn’t dealt with a telepath on Jean’s level so