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#151 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurdensaid: "WW is not strong enough to fight Jean's TK and TP. I'm pretty sure that WW can't even break Jean's telekinetic shields".

Excuse Me?

Ummmmm---

Wonder Woman is strong enough to have effortlessly resisted the virtually nothing escapes it entropy of Black Holes (in one instance, Diana resisted the pull of a Black Hole, and pulled Martian Manhunter out of that same Black Hole simultaneously); she also proved strong enough to rip the God Chronos' Scepter apart with her bare hands (which is incredible, as it was durable enough to contain the energies of the Godwave). A woman who has strength feats like that is strong enough to tear through Jean's TK.

As for Ms. Grey's TP, Diana has The Eye Of Athena which has allowed her to effortlessly resist Planetary TP Maxwell Lord, effortlessly resist Planetary plus TP Dr. Psycho, and resist unquantifiable TPs Martian Manhunter and The God Ares. Jean is objectively not better than any of them; at the very least she is not soooooo much better than them that she could instantly take Diana out before the Amazon super speed KO'd or terminated the mutant.

It's a moot proposition anyway; Wonder Woman can move faster than thought, and would strike Jean before her TP or TK could "take"; in the canon "JLA/Avengers mini series, Diana tore through the uber powerful Quasar's energy force field like it was nothing (I don't see Jean's shield being sooooo much more powerful than Quasar's shield that it could do better against the Amazon).

There's really no doubt about it. Wonder Woman wins.

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#152 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: uh...what?...Jean's telekinetic shield has taken damage from a blast by Onslaught and the shield even protects her from a nuclear explosion...second of all, Jean's TK and TP are on a whole new level, her TP could surpass Charles Xavier's but Xavier puts mental blocks on her so that Jean could have proper control over her powers. With her telekinesis, she manifests "telekinetic sensitivity" (called "the Manifestation of the Phoenix") to objects in her immediate environment that lets her feel the texture and molecular patterns of objects, feel when other objects come into contact with them, and probe them at a molecular or subatomic level.

You cannot compare Maxwell Lord's TP with Jean's TP. Jean's TP is 100% stronger.

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#153 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva: maybe not because her telekinetic shield is strong enough to withstand an energy blast from Onslaught.

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#154 Posted by bowlt_swagg_320 (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean

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#155 Posted by vooon (410 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana gets roasted and mind raped into thinking she's a chicken.

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#156 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio
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#157 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@vooon said:

Diana gets roasted and mind raped into thinking she's a chicken.

This.

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#158 Posted by MightyKalEl (2206 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean w/o Phoenix, Diana wins.

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#159 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Wonder Woman's body is durable enough to do things like withstand a nuclear explosion directly after being ambushed and pummeled by two sun amped Kryptonians Zod and Faura; withstand being nearly placed in the sun by Superman, his hotter than the sun heat vision point blank to her face, and his super speed blood lusted planet smashing blows simultaneously (yet go on to end their battle by severely lacerating his throat with her impossibly sharp tiara); survive two Imperiex Probe explosions, one shortly after the other, battered but conscious and all limbs still intact (and since The Probes carry a portion of The Big Bang-the force that created reality itself and the multiverse-lowballing as much as possible, even if The Big Bang had only created a single universe a "portion" of such an explosion would have to be galaxy level, considering how infinite even a single universe can be (for instance, according to science, as big as The Milky Way Galaxy is, it is just one of several galaxies of our universe); and except for saying "AAAH" tanked the blasts of the Void Hound when this has no capacity to "hold back" its power construct tried to terminate her http://imgur.com/a/ZvaG2 ((just a test run of it's blasts destroyed 10 Star Systems in one gohttp://i.imgur.com/2gREOpX.jpg)-again, so far, astronomers have found more than 500 solar systems and are discovering new ones every year. Given how many they have found in our own neighborhood of the Milky Way galaxy, scientists estimate that there may be tens of billions of solar systems in our galaxy, perhaps even as many as 100 billion-so Diana tanking "just "10 is not hype or an "outlier" considering her other feats.

Therefore, a body that is that durable combined with the strength I detailed in post 151 is not going to have an issue smashing through her TK shields (Diana's impact is more than a mere "nuclear explosion"). If she uses the cut through anything, magical Atoms Splitting Sword along with that strength, she will cut through the shield as well. And sorry, but her TK is not sooo much beter than Quasar's shields, or more force than a Black Hole with an infinite horizon---Jean won't be saved that way.

I might-repeat, might-not be able to compare Lord to Jean--but I can compare her to: The Queen Of Fables, an uber powerful reality warper; Dr. Psycho, a TP so powerful he can even affect alternate timelines and universes (yet his power had no effect on her); Skyfather Ares in his own realm-where he is functionally omnipotent-and yet she withstood his sustained, repeated, vicious assaults; and Martian Manhunter, who's TP feats include that he has entered the mind of the Spectre, who is above Xavier; J'onn also-subconsciously-psionically prevented his entire Martian race from entering the Afterlife (preventing one uber telepath from what they want to do, much less an entire race of them-subconsciously, at that-is more impressive than Xavier) So J'onn is easily on par-if not superior-with Jean in this area.

And that's nice and all regarding Jean and Gladiator-not bad at all; but (A) Diana is above him and (B) considering the Amazon's speed feats which include:

Wonder Woman blocked Darkseid's Omega Beams-that were fast enough to nearly get Flash and DID strike Superman

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The beams taxed Flash and Superman to their limits to avoid them (eventually, managing to hit Supes). Yet it is being claimed that a woman that has the combat speed to block these beams-at POINT BLANK RANGE-can't get to Grey (scans have been previously shown Diana moving faster than thought. in fact-or beat the mutant to the punch.

She is fast enough to fight Zod and Faora, two COMBAT SKILLED KRYPTONIANS simultaneously

https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/superman-and-wonder-woman-vs-zod-and-faora-1.jpg and https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125203/3869681-6588386027-Super.jpg but according to some people she "can't" get to Jean before she can react.

Diana has blocked or tanked point blank, all encompassing lightning attacks from Nekron and Zeus (a woman that can withstand or block those attacks can ABSOLUTELY withstand Jean's attacks) and a point blank bombardment by Ares; has shown the combat skill and speed to lasso Superman and Captain Marvel when they were BLOODLUSTED, Barry Allen Flash on two separate occasions, Zoom (despite the fact she was SIGHTLESS at the time, and had received THREE VICIOUS IMPS from him) and Amazo even before the android could complete it's thought/sentence/threat (which is truly remarkable since Amazo has a super computer brain, and the artificial adversary had the combined speed of Superman and Wonder Woman at the time)---

and has shown the speed to block trauma AT LEAST equal that mode of attack, like here when she Deflects multiple parts of the Shattered God. These parts crossed all corners of the known universe in a short period of time from Oa to Earth and back again. This adversary was capable of obliterating and/or creating universes when this being fully assembled. No matter how much one were to lowball how fast the parts moved, there's also trillions upon trillions of particles (TRILLIONS with a T) and she held fast against the assault.

And Jean is supposed to "not" be overwhelmed by the speed, skill, and power of Wonder Woman?

With all the above evidence-faster than thought speed, overwhelming power, magical weapons, consistent top tier TP resistance, Diana has "no" chance to beat the X-man? None whatsoever?

Nah. just---no, man.

That premise defies basic, demonstrable evidence and logic, and requires blatantly, willfully ignoring facts to come up with this.

There really is no doubt about: Wonder Woman wins.

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#160 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: do you even know what I'm trying to say? Even a teenage Jean is able to defeat Gladiator, so WW wouldn't be a problem for an adult Jean.

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#161 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Did you understand what I said? Diana is above Gladiator, and has resisted TP from characters on par with Jean; she will be no problem at all for Wonder Woman to defeat.

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#162 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Jean's TK is powerful enough to not let Superman get closer !!

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able to send Thor flying when she was lashing out in anger:

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#164 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: A non canon incident? Seriously???

Willfully ignoring things is to get a result you want not going to help you. Due to strength enough resist Black Holes with infinite horizons-more than enough to resist Grey's TK; TP resistance against several top tier TPs on par with Jean; and faster than thought speed that will allow the Amazon to take out the mutant before she realized it happened:

Wonder Woman wins.

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#165 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio
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#166 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Thor standing upright is not more powerful to resist than the pull of a Black Hole.

Willfully ignoring things is to get a result you want is still not going to help you (it's clear that's what you're doing now). Due to, among many strength feats, strength enough resist Black Holes with infinite horizons-more than enough to resist Grey's TK; TP resistance against several top tier TPs on par with Jean; and faster than thought speed that will allow the Amazon to take out the mutant before she realized it happened:

Wonder Woman wins.

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#167 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: Some of Jean's feats:

flies into space to save skids, then the two of them fly back to earth

Telekinetically hols back Cyclops' optic blast (xcutioners song)

controls a knocked out Cyclops by taking over his motor senses and the part of his brain that contrils optic blasts ( hidden years)

psiblasts juggernaut through his helmet

incapacitates juggernaut on numerous occasions by levitating him

mindrapes juggernaut (xmen unlimited #44)

levitates an airplane (ozt)

rips out nanosentinels from a prime sentinels (ozt)

puts cyclops to sleep, while dampening his pain centers and keeping the nanobombs in him apart (ozt)

keeps a telekinetic cocoon around cyclops, keeping his insides inside (ozt)

tanks a thunder clap with shields then bfrs hulk (firstclass)

telekinetically senses something wrong with baby christopher ( technoorganuc virus killing him cellularly)

when fighting legion, jean anchors herself with tk against storms powerful winds, the anchor kept her from being sucked into the legions vortex that swallowed the other xmen

coaches cable about the astral plane as they fight two phalanx members there

explodes a sub-urban house and surburb telekinetically in masterminds world

kicks ogun out of her body then defeats him in astral combat (pfft not even a challenge)

defeats and traps gamemaster in the astral plane

overloads sabertooths mind with psionic energy until he begs

after jeans body is killed by sentinels, her conciousness posesses emna frosts comatose body and transfers her tk with her

when xavier using cerebro couldnt reach a dieing moira, jean provides him with the telepathic strength to do so

jean psiblasts phoenix emma to the ground and rips the phoenix out of her into a corpreal forn

survives freezing herself in a glacier (endsong)

after recruiting neal shaara, cables virus tries to take over and jean uses her telekinesis to help hin supress it, manifesting a phoenix raptor

during retirement in alaska jean decides to stop holding back, she removes the tons of snow burying their house with a wave, creating a phoeniw shape in the snow

on the trip to alaska, jean uses her astral form to scans america for professor x, she later says she scanned the world

during revolution jean destroys a psishark of one of the legendary shockwave riders of the neo, the rider later wills himself to death, jean links herself and follows him, then defeats the neo there and brings him back with her lifeforce

sees through apocalypse reality warping in ages of apocalypse

in the 90s around ozt, jean subconciously slipped into alternate realities twice, maybe they planned to make her similar to her kids but dropped it.

when ozt attacks the xmens plane, jeans powes start acting up and she finds herself in heroes reborn universe where she kicks ironmans ass before pulling back to 616

in a fight against candra, jean suddenly finds herself alone in a deserted city, then moments later is back with her team

jean freezes an angry mib telepathically and jokes about leaving them like that (dreams end)

teaches all her new xmen about their powers with tp (dreams end)

projects illusions into magnetos head through his helmet (dreams end)

when the new xman paulo wont stop hitting on her, she accepts and transforms herself into an old woman with tp

taunts magneto, when he admonishes her for mindcontrolling frenzy

takes control of cables tk and used to change the appearance of she, gambit and cable and rewrote their personalities and soul

crowd control making everyone leave without panick so the xmen can rumble

making the xmen appear invicible

telekinetically punched mellencamp out of the country

defeats the leader of the neo on the astral plain

kicked wolverine out of the astral plane

overcomes a dbari alien using a mandroid armor with advanced tp defence by pulling him into the astral plane and planting illusions in his mind (she also does this to other oppobents with high tp defence)

the xmen enter a car which explodes a split second later, in that split jean had shielded everyone

shielded the xmen from an explosion that destroyed a garrison

shield nate grey from madelyne pryors energy blasts, madelyne was channeling nates energy

uses her tk to deflect a blow from jahf a guardian of the mkraan crystal (jahf oneshotted nate greys shield)

anchors herself , cyclops and nate grey from a vortex

mindrapes a horde of ngarai demons while boosting wolverine and neal shaaras powers and absorbing their fatigue and trapping a rutai demon in an illusion

amps beast strenght and speed, making him as strong as thing

telekinetically blasts a hole in the side of apocalypse celestial ship

rogue using jeans powers creates an illusion of all the xmen fighting

ripped apart apocalypse celetial armor from the inside (the twelve)

ripped apocalypse essence out of cyclops ino a corpreal astral form

knocks out the hulk with tp (xmen 1st series)

manipulating fantomexs blood cells to make them clot

sensing a bullet and catches it (new xmen)

controls the contents of the stomach and bowel of the umen

performs pschometry (xmen 1st series)

has visions of the future (new xmen)

blocked wonderwomans shield with her tk shield

at the height of her power professor x was scared of going into her mind for fear of turning to ash

tanks beigng psiblasted by onslaught into a planet on the astral plane

senses xman trying to sneak up on her

sneaks up on nate grey and madelyne pryor

frees herself from blackdeaths control then releases all the other xmen and tells blackdeath he wont be able to control them again

reclaims the memories blackdeath surpressed in darkstar

reclaims the memories onslaught surpressed in juggernaut

trains a young nathan to use his powers to supress the t.organic virus(adventures of phoenix and cyclos)

takes control of cables tk and uses it to change their clothes. and his metal arm to flesh

in adventures of ph and cy uses her tk to transform his hand to flesh

absorbs docto corbeaus knowledge and knocks scottt out with tp (xmen bfor she became a being of pure thought)

shields the xmen from an explosion that destroys mmuir island

shields a plane and cable and wolverine from an explosin that destroys muir island

holding wolverines body together after magneto rips all the metal out of him

from halfway across the world jean grey makes contact with storm, creates a version of manhattan on the psi plane, have drinks with storm at a bar, get clothes at a boutique, and braids storms hair telekinetically and discuss storms love life... all this happens in 5-10 seconds because of the speed of thoughts, and in reality storms clothes are telekinetically altered on a molecular level to the dress at the boutique, her hair is also telekinetically braided... from half way across the world. (jean was using cerebro for range, prolly cause nanosentinels were killing her) xtreme xmen #9

xfactor #1, a mountain is collapsing on xfactor and jean levitates it

xfactor feats

blocking several blasts from madelyne pryor during inferno

defeats psynapse after he tries to mindrape her

stalemates apocalypse in an astral battle then pulls in cyclops to blingside apocalypse

freezing the blood in rictors brain and stopping his heart

levitating the needle of the empire state building

blocking a gas explosion

xmen feats

levitates avalon (bigger than utopia) during the battle between the acolytes and xmen during illyanas funeral

sends a telepathic message to wolverine on earth, when she was captured by stryfe on the moon (xcutioners song)

owns sabertooth when he starts spooking people at the mansion

pwns him again after he escapes from the mansuon

pawns sabertoith once again when trying to recruit a young boy manufesting his powers

after being stabbed in the head, sabertooth became immune to telepathy, bur jean could sens by his anger giving off a red aura ( sabertooth:redzone)

shutsdown meme who has absorbed his victims

psiblasted onslaught and sent him crashing

survives onslaudght carving his name psionically into her forehead ( it killed a human when kid omega did this to him)

her mental shields were too strong for onslaughr to breakt through

encases juggernaut in a telekinetic cocoon and is confident it will hold

her shield has with stoid barrages from peoole like colossus and rogue without strain

shuts down bruce banner to release bannerless hulk

rips apart fitzroys indestructible omnium mesh armour to tiny pieces

telekinetically throws the xmens space craft from the upper atmosphere to astroid m

levitates planes on numerous occasions

uses her telekinetic powers to overcharge and destroy sinisters anti psionuc cage

http://www.animanga.com/comics/uxm1-352c.jpg

Against Phoenix Emma

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99608/1974320-phoenix_belongs_to_jean.jpg

Blasts Mellencamp miles away

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/newmsgt/scan0014.jpg

Confident she can hold juggernaut, and she has restrained him before

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138516/3926899-jean+vs+jugg.jpg

Random feats

http://www.animanga.com/comics/xmen-43.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39328/1127066-uncan353__1_.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans15/FF286_Jean3.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans12/UX66_vsHulk3.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans16/XFAC17_Jean.jpg

This site has some cool feats

http://jeangreyphoenixfans.yuku.com/topic/6451/Jeans-Gold-Team-Era-Power-Stunts

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#168 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: It's clear you didn't read my post, because none of what you listed deals with what I have demonstrated.

flies into space to save skids, then the two of them fly back to earth Diana could do the same even more easily

Telekinetically hols back Cyclops' optic blast (xcutioners song) Darkeid's Omega Beams alone are more powerful, and Diana effortlessly blocked them

controls a knocked out Cyclops by taking over his motor senses and the part of his brain that contrils optic blasts ( hidden years) Diana is above Cyclops in speed and durability; she won't just stand like a statue while Jean tries that

psiblasts juggernaut through his helmet Diana has better TP resistance

incapacitates juggernaut on numerous occasions by levitating him Juggernaut is slow as a snail compared to Diana, and will strike Jean before she tried anything

mindrapes juggernaut (xmen unlimited #44); Juggernaut doesn't have the TP feats Diana has

levitates an airplane (ozt) Diana resisted Black Holes, heavier than any airplane that ever existed

rips out nanosentinels from a prime sentinels (ozt) Diana is more durable than a Sentinel (read post 159)

puts cyclops to sleep, while dampening his pain centers and keeping the nanobombs in him apart (ozt) Hello-Diana resisted the like of Ares who is faaar above Cyclops

keeps a telekinetic cocoon around cyclops, keeping his insides inside (ozt) So? Diana is tougher and stronger than Cyclops

tanks a thunder clap with shields then bfrs hulk (firstclass) The Void Hound's blasts are tougher than the thunder clap; Diana resists Black Holes, so she can certainly resist being BFR'd by Jean; she would most likely strike Jean before she could even try to BFR her

telekinetically senses something wrong with baby christopher ( technoorganuc virus killing him cellularly) So? Irrelevant

when fighting legion, jean anchors herself with tk against storms powerful winds, the anchor kept her from being sucked into the legions vortex that swallowed the other xmen Again-Diana has resisted Black Holes with infinite horizons

coaches cable about the astral plane as they fight two phalanx members there Diana can enter the astral plane as well

explodes a sub-urban house and surburb telekinetically in masterminds world Diana has survived a nuke after being ambushed by two sun amped Kryptonians, Zod and Faoura

kicks ogun out of her body then defeats him in astral combat (pfft not even a challenge) Diana is stronger than Ogun, and can enter the Astral Plane as well

defeats and traps gamemaster in the astral plane See above

overloads sabertooths mind with psionic energy until he begs Sigh-Diana's TP resistance is above Sabertooth-see post 159

after jeans body is killed by sentinels, her conciousness posesses emna frosts comatose body and transfers her tk with her So?

when xavier using cerebro couldnt reach a dieing moira, jean provides him with the telepathic strength to do so Diana has resisted J'onn, who entered the mind of The Spectre, who is above Xavier or Jean

jean psiblasts phoenix emma to the ground and rips the phoenix out of her into a corpreal forn Jean is not going to "Psi blast" Diana to the ground-she is stronger than Emma and has resisted Black Holes

survives freezing herself in a glacier (endsong) Diana withstood being flash froze by Superman's Frost Breath, then powered out of being frozen in a block of ice formed by that Frost Breath

after recruiting neal shaara, cables virus tries to take over and jean uses her telekinesis to help hin supress it, manifesting a phoenix raptor It's doubtful such a virus could enter Diana due to her durability

during retirement in alaska jean decides to stop holding back, she removes the tons of snow burying their house with a wave, creating a phoeniw shape in the snow A ton of snow is not more powerful than Black Holes

on the trip to alaska, jean uses her astral form to scans america for professor x, she later says she scanned the world So? That is irrelevant in battle

during revolution jean destroys a psishark of one of the legendary shockwave riders of the neo, the rider later wills himself to death, jean links herself and follows him, then defeats the neo there and brings him back with her lifeforce So?

sees through apocalypse reality warping in ages of apocalypse See post 159; Diana has resisted TPs and reality warpers as powerful

in the 90s around ozt, jean subconciously slipped into alternate realities twice, maybe they planned to make her similar to her kids but dropped it. That's not going to protect Jean from a super speed punch to her face

when ozt attacks the xmens plane, jeans powes start acting up and she finds herself in heroes reborn universe where she kicks ironmans ass before pulling back to 616 That won't help Jean, Diana is above Iron Man

in a fight against candra, jean suddenly finds herself alone in a deserted city, then moments later is back with her team So???

jean freezes an angry mib telepathically and jokes about leaving them like that (dreams end) Diana has resisted TPs on par with Jean, and is above the power of "an angry mob"

teaches all her new xmen about their powers with tp (dreams end) So?

projects illusions into magnetos head through his helmet (dreams end) Diana sees through illusions with no problem all the time

when the new xman paulo wont stop hitting on her, she accepts and transforms herself into an old woman with tp So?

taunts magneto, when he admonishes her for mindcontrolling frenzy So?

takes control of cables tk and used to change the appearance of she, gambit and cable and rewrote their personalities and soul That doesn't matter to a Diana who resisted Ares in his own realm

crowd control making everyone leave without panick so the xmen can rumble Diana is above any crowd, controlling a crowd is a lot easier than controlling a woman as strong as Wonder Woman

making the xmen appear invicible Diana's Eye Of Athena and enhanced hearing makes that tactic useless against her

telekinetically punched mellencamp out of the country Diana is above Mellencamp

defeats the leader of the neo on the astral plain Doesn't mean Jean can defeat Diana on the Astral Plane, as Diana has traveled there

kicked wolverine out of the astral plane Diana has entered the Astral Plane and is above Logan, so that is irrelevant

overcomes a dbari alien using a mandroid armor with advanced tp defence by pulling him into the astral plane and planting illusions in his mind (she also does this to other oppobents with high tp defence) See above

the xmen enter a car which explodes a split second later, in that split jean had shielded everyone Diana is still faster than that

shielded the xmen from an explosion that destroyed a garrison And Diana is faster and stronger than that explosion

shield nate grey from madelyne pryors energy blasts, madelyne was channeling nates energy Ares and J'onn are on par, and Diana resisted them

uses her tk to deflect a blow from jahf a guardian of the mkraan crystal (jahf oneshotted nate greys shield) See post 159

anchors herself , cyclops and nate grey from a vortex The Vortex is not more powerful than Black Holes, the Imperiex Probes explosions, or The Void Hound's blasts

mindrapes a horde of ngarai demons while boosting wolverine and neal shaaras powers and absorbing their fatigue and trapping a rutai demon in an illusion Skyfather Ares in his own realm is above those creatures, and Diana resisted, so irrelevant

amps beast strenght and speed, making him as strong as thing So?Diana is above The Thing

telekinetically blasts a hole in the side of apocalypse celestial ship Diana would either tank, or block such a blast

rogue using jeans powers creates an illusion of all the xmen fighting Illusions consistently don't affect Diana

ripped apart apocalypse celetial armor from the inside (the twelve) Diana's super speed would allow herto "rip apart" Jean before she could try doing that

ripped apocalypse essence out of cyclops ino a corpreal astral form Diana is comfortable in The Astral Plane, and would come right back to her body-though, since Diana is much faster than Jean, Jean would be dealt with, so she wouldn't need to

knocks out the hulk with tp (xmen 1st series) Diana is too fast, and has too much TP resistance for Jean to do that to the Amazon

manipulating fantomexs blood cells to make them clot Diana is to durable for that to work on her

sensing a bullet and catches it (new xmen) Diana is much, MUCH faster than bullets

controls the contents of the stomach and bowel of the umen Long before Jean could even try that, she'll have a sword to the gut (it's doubtful that would work on Diana, regardless

performs pschometry (xmen 1st series) So?

has visions of the future (new xmen) So?

blocked wonderwomans shield with her tk shield Non canon

at the height of her power professor x was scared of going into her mind for fear of turning to ash Diana's lasso has allowed her to stop mega powerful TPs---Diana's mind would not be affected

tanks beigng psiblasted by onslaught into a planet on the astral plane Already dealt with Astral Plane multiple times now

senses xman trying to sneak up on her Diana is far faster than any X-man, wouldn't help jean

sneaks up on nate grey and madelyne pryor Diana has faster reflexes, so irrelevent

frees herself from blackdeaths control then releases all the other xmen and tells blackdeath he wont be able to control them again Blackdeath is not a better TP than Dr. Psycho, Ares,, etc.

reclaims the memories blackdeath surpressed in darkstar So?

reclaims the memories onslaught surpressed in juggernaut So?

trains a young nathan to use his powers to supress the t.organic virus(adventures of phoenix and cyclos) So?

takes control of cables tk and uses it to change their clothes. and his metal arm to flesh That TK is not more powerful than the force of Black Holes

in adventures of ph and cy uses her tk to transform his hand to flesh So?

absorbs docto corbeaus knowledge and knocks scottt out with tp (xmen bfor she became a being of pure thought) So?

shields the xmen from an explosion that destroys mmuir island Diana has withstood explosions like nukes and Imperiex probes, so irrelevant

shields a plane and cable and wolverine from an explosin that destroys muir island Ditto

holding wolverines body together after magneto rips all the metal out of him So?

from halfway across the world jean grey makes contact with storm, creates a version of manhattan on the psi plane, have drinks with storm at a bar, get clothes at a boutique, and braids storms hair telekinetically and discuss storms love life... all this happens in 5-10 seconds because of the speed of thoughts, and in reality storms clothes are telekinetically altered on a molecular level to the dress at the boutique, her hair is also telekinetically braided... from half way across the world. (jean was using cerebro for range, prolly cause nanosentinels were killing her) xtreme xmen #9 This feat is not above J'onn's I mentioned in post 159, and Diana apparently resisted him

xfactor #1, a mountain is collapsing on xfactor and jean levitates it Diana is a lot more powerful than a mountain, so irrelevant

xfactor feats

blocking several blasts from madelyne pryor during inferno Pryor's blasts are is not more powerful than the blasts of Nekron, Zeus, Darkseid, Ares, and the Void Hound---all of whom Wonder Woman blocked, or outright tanked

defeats psynapse after he tries to mindrape her Psynapse is not more formidable than the TPs Diana has resisted

stalemates apocalypse in an astral battle then pulls in cyclops to blingside apocalypse Diana is quite comfortable in The Astral Plane, so not impressed

freezing the blood in rictors brain and stopping his heart Doubt that will work on the more durable Diana

levitating the needle of the empire state building Diana is more powerful than the Empire State building, and she will stay still in a stationary position, she'll fight back against being levitated with strength capable of resisting Black Holes

blocking a gas explosion A gas explosion is not more powerful than a nuke or Imperiex Probe explosion, both of which Wonder Woman withstood

xmen feats

levitates avalon (bigger than utopia) during the battle between the acolytes and xmen during illyanas funeral Diana has the strength feats mentioned previously, so she can push back against attempts to levitate her with ease

sends a telepathic message to wolverine on earth, when she was captured by stryfe on the moon (xcutioners song) So? Irrelevant in a battle with the Amazon

owns sabertooth when he starts spooking people at the mansion Diana would "own" Sabertooth as well, so irrelevant

pwns him again after he escapes from the mansuon Ditto

pawns sabertoith once again when trying to recruit a young boy manufesting his powers Once again, ditto

after being stabbed in the head, sabertooth became immune to telepathy, bur jean could sens by his anger giving off a red aura ( sabertooth:redzone) So? this doesn't change Diana's high tier TP resistance abilities

shutsdown meme who has absorbed his victims Meme is not Diana

psiblasted onslaught and sent him crashing Even if Diana was "sent crashing", she would come right back at super speeds too fast for Jean to handle

survives onslaudght carving his name psionically into her forehead ( it killed a human when kid omega did this to him) Impressive, but if Jean can survive that, the much, MUCH more durable than Jean Diana could survive that too

her mental shields were too strong for onslaughr to breakt through Diana won't be attacking Jean that way, so irrelevant (though, since the lasso has easily subdued the top tier TPs it has, it probably could subdue Jean too)

encases juggernaut in a telekinetic cocoon and is confident it will hold Diana is too fast to be encased

her shield has with stoid barrages from peoole like colossus and rogue without strain Diana is more powerful than Colossus and Rogue

shuts down bruce banner to release bannerless hulk Diana has TP resistance above Bruce Banner

rips apart fitzroys indestructible omnium mesh armour to tiny pieces Diana is too fast for Jean to get the chance to try that against her

telekinetically throws the xmens space craft from the upper atmosphere to astroid m Diana has resisted Black Holes which are more powerful than a space craft, so it's doubtful Jean can move Diana that way

levitates planes on numerous occasions Ditto

uses her telekinetic powers to overcharge and destroy sinisters anti psionuc cage Ditto

http://www.animanga.com/comics/uxm1-352c.jpg

Against Phoenix Emma

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/9/99608/1974320-phoenix_belongs_to_jean.jpg

Blasts Mellencamp miles away See Diana's strength, speed, and durability feats in post 159

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/newmsgt/scan0014.jpg

Confident she can hold juggernaut, and she has restrained him before Juggernaut is slow as molasses compared to Diana, so Jean won't get the chance to do that to Diana

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111138516/3926899-jean+vs+jugg.jpg

Random feats

http://www.animanga.com/comics/xmen-43.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/39328/1127066-uncan353__1_.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans15/FF286_Jean3.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans12/UX66_vsHulk3.jpg

http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans16/XFAC17_Jean.jpg

It's clear you really, really like Grey. So I'm sorry that I had to, point by point, show that-

Due to vastly superior speed, overwhelming strength, and magical weapons:

Wonder Woman wins.

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#169 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: There's nothing WW can really do to Jean. If she kills Jean, Jean can just transfer her consciousness into another body and there's nothing WW can do to stop that. Anyway, Jean mindraping Juggernaut with his helmet on is a feat Charlies Xavier nor Emma Frost are unable to do. It's impressive. You need to read some X-Men comics seriously. And WW is kind of overrated, Jean is underrated, again. Jean Grey is a mutant with psionic abilities possessing telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, precognition as well as astral projection. Jean being an omega level mutant has unlimited potential in each of these abilities and has done things deemed impossible by Charles Xavier himself.

Second of all, Madelyne Pryor is a clone of Jean Grey so she got the same powers as Jean.

Third of all, X-Man is an alias Nate Grey uses.

All these proves that you know nothing about the X-Men.

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#170 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Diana can BFR Jean via lasso to some random nether dimension if Jean transfered her consciousness. J'onn preventing his entire telepathic Martian race from entering the Afterlife-subconsciously-and entering the mind of the Spectre-is on par with anything Jean has done, and Diana resisted him. You need to read some Wonder Woman, seriously And Diana is not "overrated"---her feats are what they are, and won't stop being true because you don't "like" that.

I'm sorry. But feats and facts say:

Wonder Woman wins,

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#171 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: actually, I already read many of WW comics (especially The New 52), but it seems like you keep ignoring some feats that I post up there. I mean do you even read X-Men comics? You must know what other X-Men characters can do and you can't just say "Martian Manhunter is stronger than Charles Xavier and Emma Frost". Just because WW has resisted Martian Manhunter's TP doesn't mean she can resist Jean's TP. That's just like saying Batman wins against Superman but loses to Wolverine or Captain America.

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#172 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: I suspect I have been reading X-men comics probably since before you were eating solid food.

And point by point I rebutted Jean's feats you listed in post 167-so actually, you are the one ignoring things.

Wonder Woman is too fast, is too strong, and has too much TP resistance for Grey to counter.

Sorry.

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#173 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: anyway, Apocalypse is stronger than WW so Jean stalemating him in astral combat is an impressive feat. And like I said: Jean ripped apart Apocalypse's armour from the inside.

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#174 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: No one is claiming Jean is not "impressive" or is a bad character, or is a punk. or anything of the kind.

Due to the fact that the Amazon is too fast, is too strong, and has too much TP resistance for Grey to counter, she just can't beat Wonder Woman, is all.

Sorry, man.

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#175 Posted by ITACHI_IS_GAWD (461 posts) - - Show Bio

Man can this chick get any more wank?? Jean would destroy Overrated Woman!

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#176 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

Man can this chick get any more wank?? Jean would destroy Overrated Woman!

Finally! Someone agrees with me.

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#177 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: so...you're saying that one punch from WW would kill Jean Grey? Ha, it's not going to happen. Jean has taken hits from other, more powerful beings than WW, like Onslaught, Mister Sinister and Apocalypse for examples.

Even without the Phoenix Force, at full power, Jean can manipulate the entire universe and can tear someone's molecules apart one by one. At full power, she can manipulate matter even down to the molecular level. How WW is going to win against that?

That's why fighting-types are ineffective against psychic-types.

I'm pretty sure Mrs. Grey can win this one.

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#178 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: And multiple other users agree with me that Diana beats Jean-what does that user agreeing with you prove?

"HA".

And who's to say a woman with her speed will stop at "one" punch? Are you claiming with a straight face that a woman that can punch much more durable than Jean characters like Powergirl, Supergirl, Superwoman, Captain Nazi, Captain Marvel, Superman, The Gods Hermes, Achilles and Hercules, Mongul, Kryptonians Zod, Faoura, and Non, and more-and do everything from bleeding them to KOing them, "can't" do far worse to the much less durable Grey? And you think that Diana resisting TP's on par with Jean goes away because you willfully ignore that fact to get a result you want?

SMH.

Sorry. Wonder Woman wins, and you're not liking this won't change anything.

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#179 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: in my opinion, WW is overrated. She's impressive, but not as impressive as people gives her credit for. On other hand, Jean Grey is really underrated. She's very powerful and really impressive (an omega-level mutant) but people kinda underestimated her. Even Emma Frost can beat WW, and Jean is above Emma. Face it.

Jean Grey is above Emma Frost and Charles Xavier in terms of potential.

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#180 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: You're having pronoun trouble. You have to "face it" that your claiming Emma or Jean can beat Diana, or that Diana is "overrated" simply because you say so doesn't mean anything.

Facts and feats before, now, and always show: Wonder Woman wins.

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#181 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: uh, nope. Emma Frost can clearly beat WW. But let's not debate it since this is not "Emma Frost vs. Wonder Woman". Maybe I'll make a battle forum for it.

Emma Frost is number 4 on Comic Book Resources' list of the Top 15 Marvel Characters Who Would Destroy Wonder Woman. Dark Phoenix is also on that list.

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#182 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: You keep thinking claims overrides feats and facts. And you are the one that brought up Emma Frost, so why are you acting like I'm the one who brought her up and derailed the discussion to her?

??????

What Comic Book Resources-a single site's opinion states-doesn't amount to much. And we're not discussing Dark Phoenix, or even "regular" Phoenix---we are discussing Jean Grey,

SMH.

You can "like" Jean better all you want.

Due to the fact that the Amazon is too fast, is too strong, and has too much TP resistance for Grey to counter, she just can't beat Wonder Woman, is all.

Sorry, man.

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#183 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: you're the one who said that I'm claiming that Emma Frost would win against WW. It's the truth that Emma Frost would win against WW.

And you seemed to ignore the facts that at full power (without the Phoenix Force) Jean Grey can manipulate the entire universe and manipulate matter on a molecular level.

Gosh, WW is so overrated. Even Kitty Pryde would stomp WW without trying.

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#184 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: Because you introduced Emma into the conversation first---if you hadn't, I wouldn't have mentioned her, right?

SMH.

Critical thinking skills. Look into it.

And claiming Emma would win doesn't make it so.

And you "seemed to ignore" that (A) Diana has pushed back against multiple star system and galaxy trauma (see post 159) and (B) Diana can move faster than thought-it won't do Jean any good if she is taken out before the mutant can even process it happened.

Keep going, please---the amusement factor you are providing is unprecedented. I'm sure you can top yourself.

Due to the fact that the Amazon is too fast, is too strong, and has too much TP resistance for Grey to counter, she just can't beat Wonder Woman, is all.

Sorry, man.

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#185 Edited by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: everyone has opinions, okay? I'm not further debating this. I say Jean Grey takes this. But if you say WW takes this, that's fine. But it's a fact that Emma Frost or Kitty Pryde would effortlessly stomp WW. And also, it's a fact that your opinion matters and affects other people, like me for example.

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#186 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@rhysdurden: You can believe what you wish. That's your right.

Meanwhile, the claim that "Emma Frost or Kitty Pryde would effortlessly stomp" Diana remains demonstrably, utterly, totally, and horrendously untrue.

Don't want my opinions to negatively offend you. Maybe we'll agree on another thread.

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#187 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio
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#188 Posted by comic_book_fan (11365 posts) - - Show Bio

jean grey

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#189 Posted by clownprinceofcrime1995 (5178 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends, plain Jean gets stomped, lower end Phoenix is 50/50 and higher end stomps

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#190 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva: maybe not because her telekinetic shield is strong enough to withstand an energy blast from Onslaught.

And its never been broken by someone weaker?

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#191 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva: it actually never was. Her telekinetic shield is just so strong.

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#192 Posted by Yarva (2937 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva: it actually never was. Her telekinetic shield is just so strong.

Wow. She should just walk around in a bubble and be undefeated for life.

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#193 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@yarva said:
@rhysdurden said:

@yarva: it actually never was. Her telekinetic shield is just so strong.

Wow. She should just walk around in a bubble and be undefeated for life.

She even shielded herself and the X-Men from a nuclear explosion once.

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#194 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: I know this might be a dumb question but who is the girl in your profile picture? It kinda scares me.

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#195 Posted by agent41 (15573 posts) - - Show Bio

@itachi_is_gawd said:

Man can this chick get any more wank?? Jean would destroy Overrated Woman!

Finally! Someone agrees with me.

Could troll even more?. You have been bashing WW no matter who she fights like if she was a weaklink that can't beat anybody.

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#196 Posted by Stormcell (1670 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: There's nothing WW can really do to Jean. If she kills Jean, Jean can just transfer her consciousness into another body and there's nothing WW can do to stop that. Anyway, Jean mindraping Juggernaut with his helmet on is a feat Charlies Xavier nor Emma Frost are unable to do. It's impressive. You need to read some X-Men comics seriously. And WW is kind of overrated, Jean is underrated, again. Jean Grey is a mutant with psionic abilities possessing telepathy, telekinesis, empathy, precognition as well as astral projection. Jean being an omega level mutant has unlimited potential in each of these abilities and has done things deemed impossible by Charles Xavier himself.

Second of all, Madelyne Pryor is a clone of Jean Grey so she got the same powers as Jean.

Third of all, X-Man is an alias Nate Grey uses.

All these proves that you know nothing about the X-Men.

This is not true. For Jean to transfer her mind into another body, there has to be a telepath nearby and their mind has to be vacant and ready for her to move in.

Also, some of the feats you listed above that the Wonder Woman fan countered you on were not done under Jean's power alone. During Revolution, for example, she had Psylocke's telepathy added to her own. This thread is about non-Phoenix Force Jean Grey without Betsy's TP against Diana.

During Morrison's run, Jean Grey was possessed by the Phoenix Force, hence, she told Emma, "Now its just you, me, and the Phoenix," after she knocked Scott out of the room when she walked in on the psychic affair. So, her big feats from Morrison's run don't count either.

To be honest, Jean loses this fight badly against Diana.

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#197 Posted by dami24434 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

current Jean stomps though, she's essentially deadman like now.

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#198 Posted by Marishtar (2052 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman blitzes the shit out of Jean.

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#199 Posted by vengefulshot (2157 posts) - - Show Bio

She needs the PF to win. Diana has to much magic resistance and tp immunity. Maybe not enough to keep Jean out of her head indefinitely, but more than enough to keep her out for the short time she needs to smack her.

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#200 Posted by BlessedbyHorus (6320 posts) - - Show Bio

She needs the PF to win. Diana has to much magic resistance and tp immunity. Maybe not enough to keep Jean out of her head indefinitely, but more than enough to keep her out for the short time she needs to smack her.

This. WW wins comfortably.