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#51 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: we're not talking mere lazers, cosmic blasts from high evolutionary, galactus and celestial among the few

and you got proof that they're faster than light? The cosmic word before blast doesn't make them faster than light, nor does it enhance her reaction speed. Everyone with shields has taken cosmic blasts in comics, that doesn't make them as fast as the blasts.

Scans of Jean taking hits from Galactus or Celestials?

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#52 Posted by Etheral_Dreams (6116 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean.

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#53 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Namely who's the most powerful telepath that Wonder Woman has resisted? Pretty sure no one of jeans caliber with regards to bypassing telepathic immunity.

Lastly lowball much? Jeans just a powerful telepath, do you even know the character? Molecular level TK could just rip Wonder Woman apart

@veitha: so your now saying Wonder Woman is faster than cosmic blasts? Which Jean reacted to easily these same blasts that have been called light speed on numerous occasions

Fernus, and he couldn't get past her either. Ah yes, and in the New 52 she shrugged off Brianiac's TP that otherwise flattened everyone on the planet like it was nothing.

I'm not lowballing, because you were the one that brought in the Phoenix-less Jean. And I think I am right in saying the TK isn't even hers. Not to mention there are a ton of genetic mishaps the X-Men call enemies who's faced Jean without much of a problem, and people like Mastermind who out-TP'ed her and got himself killed for it. So maybe it's just you overestimating her capabilities.

@outside_85:

So what,it's still only resistance. Immunity trumps resistance.

It's called resistance because Diana can choose to lower it, if you aren't welcome, you aren't setting foot inside.

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#54 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I'm done debating with you when you clearly don't know the character in question "I think I'm right in saying the TK isn't hers" :/ TK was her first power the TP came later I'm done clearly your wonder wan biasism is showing again

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#55 Edited by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: @comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@veitha: ermmm yes Ofc especially when those cosmic blasts have been called light speed not to mention she has also shielded herself from cyclops after he has fired and his beams are light speed aswell discounting something for no reason to try and reinforce your own point is abysmal and laughable debating strategy, jeans has plenty of reaction fears to suggest she can defend herself fine from a blitz however Diana does not have the necessary durability or TP feats to suggest she could survive molecular disintegration or mind rape

everyone, everyone, has dodged Scott's beams. She shielded herself from lasers or cosmic beams, so what? Everyone does it. Gambit dodges lasers everytime, is he on WW's level? Captain America deflects energy blasts or even cosmic energy with his shield(and he even has to raise his hand), is he on WW's level? Everyone in comics reacts to lasers or energy blasts, it's not a good reaction speed feat against someone on WW's league.

Show me Jean defeating a speedster or prevent a true speedblitz(without plot devices or tricks) and then we can start talking.

Wonder Woman went toe to toe with Hermes, the God of Speed in her dimension.

Wonder Woman decapitates Jean before she can think "shield"

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#56 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: I'm done debating with you when you clearly don't know the character in question "I think I'm right in saying the TK isn't hers" :/ TK was her first power the TP came later I'm done clearly your wonder wan biasism is showing again

You weren't debating to begin with, so no sleep lost here.

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#57 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@outside_85:

Namely who's the most powerful telepath that Wonder Woman has resisted? Pretty sure no one of jeans caliber with regards to bypassing telepathic immunity.

Lastly lowball much? Jeans just a powerful telepath, do you even know the character? Molecular level TK could just rip Wonder Woman apart

@veitha: so your now saying Wonder Woman is faster than cosmic blasts? Which Jean reacted to easily these same blasts that have been called light speed on numerous occasions

Fernus, and he couldn't get past her either. Ah yes, and in the New 52 she shrugged off Brianiac's TP that otherwise flattened everyone on the planet like it was nothing.

I'm not lowballing, because you were the one that brought in the Phoenix-less Jean. And I think I am right in saying the TK isn't even hers. Not to mention there are a ton of genetic mishaps the X-Men call enemies who's faced Jean without much of a problem, and people like Mastermind who out-TP'ed her and got himself killed for it. So maybe it's just you overestimating her capabilities.

@lordofallhumans said:

@outside_85:

So what,it's still only resistance. Immunity trumps resistance.

It's called resistance because Diana can choose to lower it, if you aren't welcome, you aren't setting foot inside.

It's still only called resistance, no matter how you try to spin it. Immunity trumps resistance, and Jean gets through immunity, resistance should not be a problem and actually easier to get through. The N'gari horde she mindraped was resistant to her telepathy too, but with no effort or time at all she found the psychic key that gave her access to their minds. Wolverine is resistant to telepathy, that didn't stop Jean from unknowingly entering his mind to super charge his powers.

If it were any other telepath you'd have a valid argument, but Jean having proven feats against immunity renders WW resistance ineffective.

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#58 Posted by Shinjiro (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman wrecks her. There is no way Jean is going to even react. and if she can, she has to pass the TP resistence, enough time to get blitzed

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#59 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

Yatforce is back and it's stronger than ever

Disregarding feats because it pleases them and makes their character win- Wonder Woman fans been at it since the start of vine and have an established roster of awful fanboys and fan girls who throw logic out the window when it comes to Wonder Woman touché I forget that debating d Wonder Woman is like trying to make a cake out of sand

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#60 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

Yatforce is back and it's stronger than ever

Disregarding feats because it pleases them and makes their character win- Wonder Woman fans been at it since the start of vine and have an established roster of awful fanboys and fan girls who throw logic out the window when it comes to Wonder Woman touché I forget that debating d Wonder Woman is like trying to make a cake out of sand

really, you're throwing the fanbase argument in a debate?

The fact that Diana is much, much faster is a fact, fans or not

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#61 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

It's still only called resistance, no matter how you try to spin it. Immunity trumps resistance, and Jean gets through immunity, resistance should not be a problem and actually easier to get through.

The N'gari horde she mindraped was resistant to her telepathy too, but with no effort or time at all she found the psychic key that gave her access to their minds. Wolverine is resistant to telepathy, that didn't stop Jean from unknowingly entering his mind to super charge his powers.

If it were any other telepath you'd have a valid argument, but Jean having proven feats against immunity renders WW resistance ineffective.

You can call it it what you like, what matters is whats behind it: Diana's TP defense has never been broken, against it is Jean supposedly breaking through a couple of helmets and a diamond of people whom she is on some level always connected to.

And the N'gari is what to Athena? Wolvering has what I prefer to call 'selective shielding' some stories he has it, some he does not, depending on whats asked.

Jean, despite all that power, also has a proven history of dying to things unfitting for one that's supposedly that powerful.

And still, a split second is all Diana needs, resistance is enough.

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#62 Posted by Kokemabb200 (3400 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean one-shots

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#63 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: you've disregarded feats I've mentioned so not going to bother debating until I get on a computer and show on panel scans of her shielding herself from light speed blasts and yet again you'll find a way to disregard it won't you

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#64 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: so let me get this straight, reaction to things moving at high speeds only count if the things are organic? I call BS, It's a flimsy argument used when people can't come up with a valid way for the character they are debating for to win. As for reacting to a "speedster" Sunfires sister was charging at Jean full speed and Jean telepathically froze her before she reached her. What her speed was is unknown but she flew from Japan to America answering a summons ment for her brother so let's just say she was moving pretty fast.

WW is not going to rush Jean at light speed anyway which is why it's a flimsy argument at best, since that is not her normal speed of operation. If Jean can block a laser she can block a punch moving considerably slower.

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#65 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: you've disregarded feats I've mentioned so not going to bother debating until I get on a computer and show on panel scans of her shielding herself from light speed blasts and yet again you'll find a way to disregard it won't you

I didn't disregard it, I told why it's not a good feat.

@lordofallhumans said:

It's still only called resistance, no matter how you try to spin it. Immunity trumps resistance, and Jean gets through immunity, resistance should not be a problem and actually easier to get through.

The N'gari horde she mindraped was resistant to her telepathy too, but with no effort or time at all she found the psychic key that gave her access to their minds. Wolverine is resistant to telepathy, that didn't stop Jean from unknowingly entering his mind to super charge his powers.

If it were any other telepath you'd have a valid argument, but Jean having proven feats against immunity renders WW resistance ineffective.

You can call it it what you like, what matters is whats behind it: Diana's TP defense has never been broken, against it is Jean supposedly breaking through a couple of helmets and a diamond of people whom she is on some level always connected to.

And the N'gari is what to Athena? Wolvering has what I prefer to call 'selective shielding' some stories he has it, some he does not, depending on whats asked.

Jean, despite all that power, also has a proven history of dying to things unfitting for one that's supposedly that powerful.

And still, a split second is all Diana needs, resistance is enough.

the diamond feat, man. So much Phoenix in that feat :P (joking, I know we had that debate enough times not to have it again)

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#66 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: so when on panel evidence stating the beam is light speed and she shields it isn't a good feat? I need some of what your smoking

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#67 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: so when on panel evidence stating the beam is light speed and she shields it isn't a good feat? I need some of what your smoking

Cyclops' beams are light speed too, yet everyone dodges or stops them. As I said, street levellers such as Captain America or Gambit dodge lasers or cosmic beams everytime, it's common comicbook logic.

If this logic worked, Dazzler would be the most dangerous heroine in the Marvel Universe.

And unluckily for me, not smoking anything right now

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#68 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: there's a difference between aim dodging and putting up a shield after it was fired street levels do the former

So what's your excuse for high evolutionary who's cosmic blasts was on panel stated light speed?

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#69 Posted by Shinjiro (1573 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean fans getting mad because their goddess Phoenix can't win. As always

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#70 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: there's a difference between aim dodging and putting up a shield after it was fired street levels do the former

So what's your excuse for high evolutionary who's cosmic blasts was on panel stated light speed?

No Caption Provided

This is Captain America deflecting a light speed beam after it's been projected. Is Captain America on WW's level of speed? No.

Even Scott's beams are said to be light-speed, so is every single X-Men or X-Villain who dodged or shielded themselves from them on WW's level? No, of course not.

This is just claiming that Jean Grey could defeat Monica Rambeu or the Flash, really.

No, it's just comicbook logic. I'll say it again: everyone in comics dodges or shields themselves from energy blasts or lasers.

And light-speed is always light speed, so someone dodging lasers is the same thing as dodging any other cosmic blast.

Show me Jean Grey reacting to a speedster(since Diana is a speedster) on WW's level and then we can discuss, otherwise Jean loses.

@shinjiro said:

Jean fans getting mad because their goddess Phoenix can't win. As always

yeah, it's getting similar to Storm recently

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#71 Edited by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@somayareece: ermmm its my that the most hypercritical thug to say? Still salty everyone agrees Wonder Woman gets stomped here?

Oh look everyone, it's Tony Fracking Tough Guy! I am not bothered at all. I would be lashing out if that was the case. You're the one salty that Superman got owned by Wonder Woman twice in a roll. We know you have a vendetta against her so don't play dumb.

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#72 Posted by ComicsrulebutDBZdoes2 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@somayareece: @somayareece: Woah why would I get salty over superman?! Haha and censoring not swears is now against the rules so I suggest you calm down kid and drink some water to flush out all that salt in your system

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#73 Posted by deactivated-59dfd33ed3601 (5575 posts) - - Show Bio

Has it really got to this point? A standard Jean can beat Wonder Woman? I give up on this board lol. I just hope people don't go around calling her a multiversal telepath like Sentry.

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#74 Edited by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: @somayareece:Wonder Woman lassoed Amazo-who had absorbed the speed of Superman (who among many speed feats, while he and his fellow JLA team mates were fighting Felix Faust was shown to be able to move and see in nano-seconds)-before Amazo could complete his thought/sentence; and from behind went into the Speed Force, caught up to, caught Jessie Quick and pulled her out of it; according to Wally West Flash, one has to be able to achieve FTL speeds or more to access the Speed Force. Yet we're to believe that Jean's mind can react faster than Amazo's COMPUTER SWIFT mind backed up by Superman's nano second reaction speed. We're to believe that Jean can react faster than FTLer Diana can reach her and KO and/or terminate her. We're to believe that she can INSTANTLY do what the powerful TP's I mentioned in post 22 could not.

Okay.

When you get in threads where people are willing to AT LEAST concede simple, BASIC realities, this site is fun. But all too often things devolve into a lowball/willfull ingnoring of facts and feats, insult-and-name calling-in place-of-objective-discussion fest.

Sometimes, even a character one "likes" better has to take an "L"; it doesn't mean they're a punk or a bad character-everyone from Thor to Hulk to Superman to Silver Surfer to even Phantom Stranger and The Spectre have lost, sometimes BADLY; it just means that if they would more than likely lose, then so be it. The birds will still be chirping, the rivers will still be flowing, and the Earth will keep spinning.

No need for someone to lose their s&^* over it.

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#75 Posted by Veitha (4154 posts) - - Show Bio

@veitha: @somayareece:Wonder Woman lassoed Amazo-who had absorbed the speed of Superman (who among many speed feats, while he and his fellow JLA team mates were fighting Felix Faust was shown to be able to move and see in nano-seconds)-before Amazo could complete his thought/sentence; and from behind went into the Speed Force, caught up to, caught Jessie Quick and pulled her out of it; according to Wally West Flash, one has to be able to achieve FTL speeds or more to access the Speed Force. Yet we're to believe that Jean's mind can react faster than Amazo's COMPUTER SWIFT mind backed up by Superman's nano second reaction speed. We're to believe that Jean can react faster than FTLer Diana can reach her and KO and/or terminate her. We're to believe that she can INSTANTLY do what the powerful TP's I mentioned in post 22 could not.

Okay.

When you get in threads where people are willing to AT LEAST concede simple, BASIC realities, this site is fun. But all too often things devolve into a lowball/willfull ingnoring of facts and feats, insult-and-name calling-in place-of-objective-discussion fest.

Sometimes, even a character one "likes" better has to take an "L"; it doesn't mean they're a punk or a bad character-everyone from Thor to Hulk to Superman to Silver Surfer to even Phantom Stranger and The Spectre have lost, sometimes BADLY; it just means that if they would more than likely lose, then so be it. The birds will still be chirping, the rivers will still be flowing, and the Earth will keep spinning.

No need for someone to lose their s&^* over it.

amen

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#76 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey Tp Diana effortlessly.

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#77 Posted by Incursion (1510 posts) - - Show Bio
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#78 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio
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#79 Posted by Shinjiro (1573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#80 Posted by RealityWarper (12333 posts) - - Show Bio

@shinjiro said:
@realitywarper said:
@incursion said:

@realitywarper: Does WW have any TP defense feats??

Who cares ?

Jean cares. Oh, wait, she's dead.

It's Jean Grey.

I don't know who Jean Care is, man.

Hell ! She's dead !

Can WW resurrect her to kill her ?

If not stalemate.

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#81 Posted by Shinjiro (1573 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by SC (17970 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhoknows: @lordofallhumans: Hello. You can request a user not address you, not demand that they don't, and its not some tactic to get the last word either. In a random singular encounter, its okay for users to quote or reply to you. Now if they do so aggressively over and over without you doing anything to indicate that you are welcoming their direct input, so something akin to one user hounding another, then that is not okay.

CV is for users to give their opinions, not have their opinions constantly questioned or hounded for not conforming to others views.

lordofallhumans, please don't refer or accuse users of being a fanboy or personalizing things in that way.

theonewhoknows, please don't insinuate a users age or character otherwise. Also if you request a user not tag or address you because of their past behavior, please do so with more tact, instead of it coming off as its own type of attack, or repeating yourself to get the last word and otherwise continue with the exchange. At some point you just have to cope with some users disagreeing with you and that you can just not care that they do.

If anyone has questions or worries PM me, otherwise stay on topic. Thanks.

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#83 Edited by SC (17970 posts) - - Show Bio

@shinjiro: Hello. Don't make the conversation about other users use of language please.

Moderator
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#84 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9580 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85 said:
@lordofallhumans said:

@outside_85: It took no effort for her to mindrape Juggernaut twice, no effort to mindrape Magneto, and no effort to mindrape Emma through magical, artificial, and natural immunity respectively. Why would mere resistance be any different?

Because it's enforced by DC's Athena and she is carrying the Lasso of Truth.

@comicsrulebutdbzdoes2 said:

@outside_85: urmm what effort? Jean has bypassed planetary and sky father level TP resistance with little effort on multiple occasions, Wonder Woman's going to be a blubbering idiot in mere moments and new 52 doesn't even have the speed advantage seeing as Jean without the Phoenix has reached hypersonic speeds and reacted to cosmic blasts to shield herself and others

Moments you say? She's weaker than I thought if it took her that long. But on another matter, Emma, with the Phoenix couldn't turn Thor into a blubbering idiot, and he's not a terrible cerebral individual. Jean without the Phoenix is just a very powerful telepath, nothing more... and dont bother with bringing in ancient scans of the like Storm fans like to bring out when they also think she can out-race someone with the speed of Hermes.

Not all storm fans think that so don't base that assumption on all Storm fans. Thank You! :)

And which Jean Grey are we talking about the Young one or the old one. Because the Thread just said Jean Grey it didn't really specify. Just wondering and I actually would like to see proof of WW having high resistance to TP I don't doubt she does, but i'd like to see.

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#85 Posted by TheOneWhoKnows (4916 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormphoenix:I gave examples of high level TPs PREN52 Diana resisted in post 22; and N52 Wonder Woman resisted Braniac's high level TP (when others could not) AND H'el's TP assaults with little problem.

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#86 Posted by MasterKungFu (20773 posts) - - Show Bio

could go either way

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#87 Posted by Heatblaze (10396 posts) - - Show Bio

said:

It's still only called resistance, no matter how you try to spin it. Immunity trumps resistance, and Jean gets through immunity, resistance should not be a problem and actually easier to get through.

The N'gari horde she mindraped was resistant to her telepathy too, but with no effort or time at all she found the psychic key that gave her access to their minds. Wolverine is resistant to telepathy, that didn't stop Jean from unknowingly entering his mind to super charge his powers.

If it were any other telepath you'd have a valid argument, but Jean having proven feats against immunity renders WW resistance ineffective.

You can call it it what you like, what matters is whats behind it: Diana's TP defense has never been broken, against it is Jean supposedly breaking through a couple of helmets and a diamond of people whom she is on some level always connected to.

And the N'gari is what to Athena? Wolvering has what I prefer to call 'selective shielding' some stories he has it, some he does not, depending on whats asked.

Jean, despite all that power, also has a proven history of dying to things unfitting for one that's supposedly that powerful.

And still, a split second is all Diana needs, resistance is enough.

resistance doesn't mean anything if Jean is powerful enough to bypass immunity without effort. Immunity>resistance.

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#88 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@heatblaze123: What it's called is irrelevant, whats keeping it standing is all that matters. Magneto, Juggs, Emma, are all immune until a certain amount of pressure is brought against them, then they are not, which quite frankly makes their 'immunity' a falsehood.

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#89 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Their immunity was thought to be immunity because no other telepath could pierce it until Jean did, which makes it high resistance when it comes to her immunity to everyone else. By those feats Jean will have zero trouble with resistance that has never given anybody reason to think it was initially immunity.

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#90 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Their immunity was thought to be immunity because no other telepath could pierce it until Jean did, which makes it high resistance when it comes to her immunity to everyone else. By those feats Jean will have zero trouble with resistance that has never given anybody reason to think it was initially immunity.

You have to remember that the Phoenix is more than a power-boost for telepaths, it is after all a multiversal life/death-entity that's connected to every sentient organism that falls under it's jurisdiction. So that she is able to find a loop hole through that connection shouldn't be at all surprising or spectacular. Diana on the other hand is not connected to the Phoenix like they are, so there is no back door for her to exploit.

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#91 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85: and you have to remember Jean was not using the Phoenix force in any of the instances involving her mindraping the aforementioned characters. Her first instance of psi blasting Cain was before the Phoenix concept was created. Jean as stated by the man himself us more powerful than Xavier without the Phoenix, and he can force his way into the mind of Galactus. Being resistant to telepathy will not protect you from a telepath that was stated on panel to be able to overcome all psi shields natural and artificial with her full non-Phoenix power.

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#92 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: So basically in the case of Cain it was the Jobbernaut that showed up and lost to a method he shouldn't have, like he's done many times before. As for Xavier getting into Galactus' head... yeah that sounds like a piece of crap writing if I have to be honest.

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#93 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

So in other words you don't like it so it's stupid? Jean mind blasting him is consistent with her being more powerful than Xavier. Xavier was the world's most powerful telepath, if he couldn't do something it was more or less telepathically impossible, except Jean has consistent showings of doing things he deems impossible. To further show this, they had her enter Cains mind a second time and got through other so-called immunity. So it wasn't him jobbing it was her cutting loose.

Xavier had already entered the mind of Dark Phoenix the nexus of all psi incarnate, getting into the mind of Galactus is no big deal. It not like it did anything to Galactus anyway, it illustrates the force Xavier can telepathically muster to enter a mind while fighting through planet wide psi static. He says she is more powerful than him and the panels say that at full power she can get into any mind either through force or finding the right key regardless of the protections on the mind, neither of which takes effort.

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#94 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: No, it's stupid because it's inconsistent with whats otherwise been long established. It's very much like when people rightly complain about Cain's unstoppable momentum being stopped by the like of the War Hulk or Onslaught. Like you say, Xavier couldn't do a damn thing against Cain as long as he had his hat on, and whopsie Jean shows up and does the impossible with (according to you) no great amount of effort. This is what is called PIS.

No, Xavier got into the head of the avatar of the Phoenix, which is only a miniscule fragment compared to the White Phoenix. And yes ofc Charles will say that because he knows the Phoenix is connected to everyone. The difference here is that Diana is not part of the Phoenix, everyone Jean ever come across however is.

Finally my repeated position on this matter is that the time Jean needs to overcome Diana's defenses is all Diana needs to take her head off, and that's the end of it, because at the end of the day: Jean only has a human body, one thats died several times already and not returned in a hurry.

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#95 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

It would be PIS if wasn't consistent with the level of power she had always said to have, and shown to do it again when not holding back as her character developed.

Dark Phoenix was the force made flesh merged with a portion of Jean's soul, when it killed itself it went to the White Hot Room as White Phoenix, the mind he entered was that of the Phoenix.

And my repeated position is Jean has enough showings of smashing resistance and "immunity" to support her having no issue smashing Wonder Woman's.

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#96 Posted by Outside_85 (23518 posts) - - Show Bio

@lordofallhumans: No it's just PIS when it chooses to ignore established powers of other characters. There has never been anything said about Jean that would permit she be able to overcome a mystical force that no other being has ever managed.

We are thinking of different instances or you are mixing things together. When Xavier entered the mind of the Dark Phoenix (which according to you should actually be impossible) he was in Jean's head along with the Phoenix-shard that had just turned Dark. I dont think the White Hot Room even existed back then before Jean died a dozen issues later and started talking to that handyman character.

If you wouldn't mind, I would actually quite like to see the instance where Jean goes through Magneto's or (especially) Cain's defenses, because I don't think it's as swift as you make it sound. And like I keep saying, even a nano-second's delay is going to be the death of Jean, since I dont recall her ever being mentioned to think at an accelerated level.

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#97 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (6742 posts) - - Show Bio

@outside_85:

Like I said had it been a single instance without later establishing how powerful she truly is then you'd have a point. Marvel went so far to show how much more powerful she was than every telepath that was unable to get through that established mystical protection, by turning her into pre-retcon Phoenix, which was all Jean at the time. I would call it PIS if it were a new feat that wasn't blacked up by decades of knowing she has an incredible amount of power that she has tapped over those decades at various times to do things he says are supposedly impossible. So to illustrate it wasn't merely a PIS moment they had her do it again and give more instances of her bypassing psi proof things by not holding back. She even showed her tk being able to do things like break a psi proof cage, and destroy the supposedly indestructible armor of Trevor Fritzroy. If Jean pushes against limitations she is virtually unstoppable.

The original fight before the retcon was just Jean. After they made Dark Phoenix the actual Phoenix force they included the side story in Classic X-Men to show us them being white Phoenix back then. I'm not mixing up anything I'm just not ignoring retcons. I would have said it was impossible if the Phoenix was aware of Xavier before he psi blasted her, the battle they had was welcomed by her. The psi blast however was powerful enough to enter her mind unprepared.

I'm on my phone, but I'm certain the scans you're looking for are in my images. With Cain she linked him with a dying dog and some bullies. With no trouble. With Magneto it was shown that the second he killed Alison Jean was manipulating his mind and even the reader doesn't find out until the end of that particular story that Jean mindraped him early on with no effort shown or implied.

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#98 Posted by BeyondTOAA (34 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeans decomposes ww

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#99 Posted by deactivated-5bb52f8f25413 (7026 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean wins because she can just use TK to hold WW in place and can just mindrape her. It's over just like that.

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#100 Posted by PyroFN (5586 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow, old thread. And yet more comments that disappoint. ( I mean behavior, not answers)

Well, back on topic, Jean can take this without Phoenix and stomps with the Phoenix.

For reaction timing, Jean has blocked Strangers lasers with ease, lasers that took down Juggernaut of all people. She will do just fine. Is that the feat you meant @lordofallhumans?