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#1 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio
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Jean with No Phoenix Force.

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Mother Talzin, Yoda, Sidious, Valkorion, Exar Kun, Grandmaster Luke all Legends/Canon

Battle at the X Mansion

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#2 Posted by Richard96 (5634 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean grey gets rekt

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#3 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: Ok, she is powerful but against that many and including legends feats? Seriously?

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#4 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Ok, she is powerful but against that many and including legends feats? Seriously?

Getting a feel for the bias. Jean Grey gets wank hard. So getting a feel for a bigger match up.

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#5 Posted by Penguinofsteel (301 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#7 Posted by dami24434 (4312 posts) - - Show Bio

jean wins, come at me .jean grey goes astral form and blitz and punch them to orbit.

they can't match her telepathy and molecular telekinesis.

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#8 Edited by ProteusXManRxis (4444 posts) - - Show Bio

Team is too much.

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#9 Edited by destinyman75 (13901 posts) - - Show Bio

Team might win due to numbers but eh Jean is more powerful then any of them so don't know. Of treya or DU we're here I'd say the team

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#10 Posted by Dawn_of_Ages (2386 posts) - - Show Bio

lmfao @ Jean without with no Phoenix Force winning.

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#11 Edited by del_torro (3530 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really a star wars fan, can I please get feats for these guys or a link to their respect threads

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#12 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

jean solos

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#13 Posted by dami24434 (4312 posts) - - Show Bio

jean

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#14 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Team might win due to numbers but eh Jean is more powerful then any of them so don't know. Of treya or DU we're here I'd say the team

You think Darth Traya makes a difference?

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#15 Edited by Erkan12 (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

Team. These are all superior TP users to Darth Maul, and Maul can kill a telepath with just his dark thoughts, he can knock down a young Jedi Ezra Bridger by creating illusions, and blunts TPM Kenobi's usage of the Force, and easily extracts information from a willful and a trained combatant such as Hera Syndulla.

Exar Kun stunned the entire audience with a Sith spell and they were not fewer than hundred.

Talzin easily creates illusions to a group of armed soldiers who were not fewer than 30.

Yoda and Sidious could easily read Dooku's mind, a very powerful Force user with TP. Valkorian did the same with Revan and Malak.

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#16 Posted by Red_Leader (907 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79 said:

@sirfizzwhizz: Ok, she is powerful but against that many and including legends feats? Seriously?

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#17 Posted by del_torro (3530 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm.... Jean grey... It's hard to rank her against star wars characters. Especially since you're using both legends and Disney Canon. Legends seems to have really high end feats (lol, I've been reading and watching movies, novels and comics of star wars in the past 2 months, it's really awesome, and funny since I used to call star wars overrated.)

I'm not through with all of Disney Canon (haven't seen the TV shows), so I may be wrong, but I think if you restrict to Disney Canon feats she wins ( I guess that's just her Vs Yoda, Sidious and luke). Legends may have high end feats she can't compete with them.

Okay, just to play Devils advocate, I'll list out some of her feats.

Jean as a planetary level telepath has scanned the planet searching for Xavier when there was psi static blocking her (as shown by Rachel scanning the planet to look for the hell fire club, you have to go through every mind one by one).

Freed Binary/miss marvel from the control of a techno organic hive mind made up of billions of souls

Jean has easily beaten Emma frost (planetary level telepath, beat Rachel grey, beat Xavier junior, beat a skull yodeling of Telepaths, beat 1000 stepped Cuckoos, projects messages to all minds on the planet) And even her ghost has possessed and suppressed Emma frost.

.

Beat Gamemaster, planetary level omnipotent who is always connected to every mind on the planet.

Projected psychic illusions and constructs at different locations around the world, constructs that could take on different teams of Xmen. She did this while trapped in an illusion by the Phoenix, and Rachel grey was taken out by coming to the location of the illusions/ while cable was taken out by trying to trace them.

Dispelled illusions created by the Phoenix, that created a town full of dead Xmen (that fought a large xteam)

She has astral protected to a pocket universe is and sensed a battle going on in another dimension

She has telepathically defeated Phoenix force amped Emma frost.

Taken control of other mutants power, or turning off their powers or a ping their powers

Broken through juggernauts mental defenses twice

Defeated an army of demons by breaking their minds, at the same time she was fooling a demon sorcerer with her illusions

Telekinesis

She has held up a falling city for a few minutes (avalon)

She has lifted the top part of the Empire state building and said it weighed thousands of tons

She has pulled barges with her telekinesis (weigh between 150-300 tons)

Lifted planes and jets with telekinesis

Blocked blasts from a mind controlled binary/ at the same time was shielding herself from a white hole

Lifted a jet to space

Blasted someone over 300 miles away

Flown in space at high speeds at different times

Shielded from Island busting explosion twice

Reacted and Shielded to bullets, explosions and lasers

Ripped apart robots from the inside, or exploding their heads with telekinesis

Shielding from the explosion of a military garrison

Shielded from a building being dropped on her

Shielding Asteroid M from the sun, and slowing down all the molecules on it to cool down (she did this when they were right next to the sun and prevented them from burning, immediately she died the Asteroid disintegrated)

Manipulating oxygen atoms to cause explosions

Breaking bones in sabertooths body

Stopping rictors heart and freezing blood flow to his brain

Clotting Fantomexs blood to stop his bleeding

Manipulation of atoms to change clothes into costumes

Manipulation of atoms in Cable's metal arm to turn it to flesh

Restrained 100+ tonners like Hercules, Namor, Thing and claimed she could restrain juggernaut.

Also, her teenager time travelling self, who has been confirmed to be her inuniverse and not an alternate universe version of has;

Beaten Emma frost amped with a shard of the cosmic cube

Drained psionic energy from galactus, Phoenix and a planet

Drained psionic energy from Xavier junior

Drained psionic energy from the Kree supreme intelligence (a being made up of billions of MInds)

Blocked Xavier juniors telepathy

Fought the Phoenix force (but lost and died)

Knocked down galactus with a blast

Knocked down gladiator with a blast

Knocked down Thor with a blast.

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#18 Posted by reikai (7451 posts) - - Show Bio

People keep making this mistake that "If Character A doesn't have -This-, then Character B has a chance!", which is usually a Thanos fight where people think Thanos is weak without the Infinity Gauntlet and keep forgetting the dude is still one of the most powerful figures in Marvel without any deus ex machina.

The same goes for Jean. Not having the Phoenix Force doesn't make her a scrub that can be brought low by the likes of Star Wars. Frankly SW's telepathy has never been very nuanced or layered in how it works or in its uses. In Marvel and DC, what characters have been able to do with it have been far more intricate and varied.

Maul can get a bottom-tier telepath to kill himself through just his resistance. Jean can shut off his powers and give him the personality and mindset of a 4th grader.

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#19 Edited by i_like_swords (26191 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

Frankly SW's telepathy has never been very nuanced or layered in how it works or in its uses. In Marvel and DC, what characters have been able to do with it have been far more intricate and varied.

They're maybe not quite on-par, but telepathy in SW is very "nuanced and layered in how it works and it's uses." There are specific mechanics which determine the effectiveness of telepathy as well as many different telepathic techniques one can employ. I thought you of all people would be aware of that, given your fondness for the ancient Sith, who make use of all kinds of sorcery.

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#20 Posted by Killerwasp (17287 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol? Jean loses fight me if you think she wins apes

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#21 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Lol? Jean loses fight me if you think she wins apes

lol

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#22 Posted by Mooty_Pass (9815 posts) - - Show Bio

I would think this is an unfair match.

6 vs 1???

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#23 Posted by AlphaQ (6109 posts) - - Show Bio

My gut says Jean. Marvel telepathy is still on a different level to SW telepathy, and unless it is a battle stipulation that Jean is so close that she can't react (which is probably moderately close, considering she can sense, perceive and react to a sniper bullet fired at Prof. X's head to save him) she would, in any kind of realistic situation, stop them before they came within a mile of her. There's also the fact that we've seen characters with many powers on top of telepathy be countered by pure telepaths before in Marvel, Exodus was forced into a solely telepathic confrontation with Prof. X and Emma Frost on two separate occasions because he simply couldn't multitask well enough.

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#24 Posted by reikai (7451 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: And because I have read up on them I know that it doesn't work in the same manner as others. Look no further than Darth Zannah. The horrors that induce fear in a targets mind aren't seen or known to the one causing it, and are born from the subconsciousness of the victim. Naga Sadow's Force Illusions were duplications of things already being seen, such as Massassi warriors and Sith Ships.

Telepaths in Marvel can create entire illusionary landscapes in your brain and make you see, hear, feel and even smell it, completely overriding your other senses, while also blocking pain receptors, holding a conversation with you, and simultaneously breaking down your mental defenses. Which is something Xavier was doing to Cable when Cable had time traveled in order to save the infant Hope Summers and protect her.

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#25 Posted by destinyman75 (13901 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: treya is a wound in the force she's often underrated

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#26 Posted by Mr_Bavadin (373 posts) - - Show Bio

Team easily.

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#27 Posted by KillBilly (1763 posts) - - Show Bio

Team stomps.

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#28 Edited by i_like_swords (26191 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Doesn't matter, as your statement that TP in Star Wars isn't nuanced stands on it's own, and is obviously false. If you just wanted to talk about how much you like Marvel, you could have done that without making rather pointless comparisons.

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#29 Posted by Kundelar (524 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins. Why is the team so huge with SWs biggest hitters lol?

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#30 Posted by KillBilly (1763 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by reikai (7451 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords: I don't see how what I said is "obviously false" when you have provided nothing to prove differently. You're just glorifying Star Wars like you normally do. So I don't see the point in you making vague statements as if that has any weight to it.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5b2121a0a9a00 (10000 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Jean recently defeat the phoenix force?

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#33 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

II don't see how this is fair for the Star Wars team. Even regular Jean is way too powerful for them.

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#34 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

Reikai got burned. Swords stomped his yard. Reikai got served 😂

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#35 Posted by Killerwasp (17287 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: not even close jean loses to all of them

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#36 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by Killerwasp (17287 posts) - - Show Bio

@xlr87t3: no, it's true there no way she's beating them all at their height of their power.

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#38 Edited by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by i_like_swords (26191 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@i_like_swords: I don't see how what I said is "obviously false" when you have provided nothing to prove differently. You're just glorifying Star Wars like you normally do. So I don't see the point in you making vague statements as if that has any weight to it.

You suggested TP isn't nuanced in how it works or how it's used; this is obviously wrong if you've read a few comics and novels. There are more passive and violent uses of TP in varying guises than I care to list, and there are also mechanics related to willpower and latent Force potential which determine the success of a telepathic assault. I'm not sure why you insist on being full of shit.

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#40 Posted by dami24434 (4312 posts) - - Show Bio

jean slaps them, they're all pathetic compared to her

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#41 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@i_like_swords: I don't see how what I said is "obviously false" when you have provided nothing to prove differently. You're just glorifying Star Wars like you normally do. So I don't see the point in you making vague statements as if that has any weight to it.

You suggested TP isn't nuanced in how it works or how it's used; this is obviously wrong if you've read a few comics and novels. There are more passive and violent uses of TP in varying guises than I care to list, and there are also mechanics related to willpower and latent Force potential which determine the success of a telepathic assault. I'm not sure why you insist on being full of shit.

Dont forget....

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People with willpower can stop dead mind control powers on a world level or Omega Mutants pys power too lmao.

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#42 Posted by AlphaQ (6109 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:
@reikai said:

@i_like_swords: I don't see how what I said is "obviously false" when you have provided nothing to prove differently. You're just glorifying Star Wars like you normally do. So I don't see the point in you making vague statements as if that has any weight to it.

You suggested TP isn't nuanced in how it works or how it's used; this is obviously wrong if you've read a few comics and novels. There are more passive and violent uses of TP in varying guises than I care to list, and there are also mechanics related to willpower and latent Force potential which determine the success of a telepathic assault. I'm not sure why you insist on being full of shit.

Dont forget....

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

People with willpower can stop dead mind control powers on a world level or Omega Mutants pys power too lmao.

I wouldn't use Quire as a way of bashing Marvel telepathy tbh. In that story Cap brought along in case he came across any psychic booby traps, when he came across them Quire helped him fight them off, the two of them seemingly being equal when it came to fighting on the psychic plane. Now, in other stories like AXIS Quire was able to protect the heroes from Red Onslaught's telepathy for at least a day and one battle, and Red Onslaught was able to send the whole world into a war purely based on hate, with even characters like Hulk, Vision and Doctor Strange himself being unable to do anything to resist. He also has other pretty good feats recently like helping Emma Frost and the Stepford Cuckoos restrain the Phoenix Force and fighting/hosting a shard of the Phoenix Force. In terms of sophistication he used his TP and super-intelligence to create a procedurally generated artificial reality inside his mind that he could use to rip people's minds into, rewriting their memories so that they become characters in his game. Think basically the Matrix in reverse. He also fought an ancient technopatic entity that was a planetary threat in multi-layered psychic combat and won (I only really skimmed that story, but this being was apparently capable of hacking Odin's magic and rewriting millions of lines of code in a second IIRC).

Purple Man isn't a telepath, but he can himself pull of quite sophisticated moves himself IIRC. He shut down Genis-Vell's cosmic awareness from what I hear and deactivated Puppet Master's control by overloading the victim's brain. Anyway, Doom is a bad example since he has ridiculous will and control of his own mind, he was able to instantly reign in control of Galactus's powers in Secret Wars when it started interfering with his subconscious and warping reality to manifest these thoughts. Reality was as malleable to him as a dream or passing fantasy but he managed to control his own mind so that not a thought was out of place. That's pretty crazy.

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#43 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphaq: I agree with all that, still the point is non telepaths with strong will can and have resisted uber telepaths or mind controllers. This Star Wars team have reach across the galaxy in some feats with telepathy and have impressive feats in city to higher levels of telepathy use.

Im just making a point vs Marvel wankers/Star Wars lowballers on the telepathy battle between these forces.

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#44 Posted by AlphaQ (6109 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: I would say that their ability to do so is pretty inconsistent, although that's kind of a given when dealing with Marvel. Sometimes willpower is enough, and sometimes it isn't. But you can also say the same thing about Star Wars telepathy, at least from what I can tell, I remember in Apocalypse a Senator who had important information on the Jedi Order's plans against the Lost Tribe of the Sith only partially broke after weeks of psychic torture at the hands of powerful Sith and even in that vulnerable state Abeloth confirmed in a resigned way that they were not going to get the information she sensed in his mind in time to do anything about it. I mean a non-Force sensitive politician kept secrets from Abeloth, who is supposed to be hot shit when it comes to SW TP, nobody ever talks about that.

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#45 Posted by BobbitsC (40 posts) - - Show Bio

Team Star Wars easily. Luke, Yoda, Sidious, come on. What battle is that?

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#46 Posted by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@alphaq said:

@sirfizzwhizz: I would say that their ability to do so is pretty inconsistent, although that's kind of a given when dealing with Marvel. Sometimes willpower is enough, and sometimes it isn't. But you can also say the same thing about Star Wars telepathy, at least from what I can tell, I remember in Apocalypse a Senator who had important information on the Jedi Order's plans against the Lost Tribe of the Sith only partially broke after weeks of psychic torture at the hands of powerful Sith and even in that vulnerable state Abeloth confirmed in a resigned way that they were not going to get the information she sensed in his mind in time to do anything about it. I mean a non-Force sensitive politician kept secrets from Abeloth, who is supposed to be hot shit when it comes to SW TP, nobody ever talks about that.

Agreed. The Inconsistency is on both sides.

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#47 Posted by reikai (7451 posts) - - Show Bio

@sirfizzwhizz: You keep pretending as if range is a factor for TP. It really isn't. And your "passive" uses are not actually passive. You're just using hypnotic suggestion, aka the Jedi Mind Trick. Not only does this not work on most people, but you want to claim how people in Marvel without TP can resist TP (while completely ignoring all circumstances and characters own abilities), and then try to pretend as if TP in SW works on anyone and everyone, when it has failed numerous times just because the target isn't brain dead fodder.

You have low-tier telepaths with little to no imagination and no real control over the kinds of affects they inflict. Marvel's can intricately construct plains, scenarios, visions and affect all senses simultaneously, and have been known to actually mind control entire populations directly with ease. By the time Sidious opened his mouth to spew his trite villainous dialogue, Jean would've already shut down his powers and turned him into a babbling, drooling mess.

And that's just with TP. Jean has other psionic abilities that she can use to kill them just as effectively. Just like how Psylocke put a psionic bubble in peoples brains to kill them or stroke them brain dead.

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#48 Edited by SirFizzWhizz (37749 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: I dont have time to debate a known lowballer of Star Wars. You are worse than I am with Naruto threads, and that is saying something lol. Good day mate.

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#49 Posted by XLR87T3 (9712 posts) - - Show Bio

jean slaps them, they're all pathetic compared to her

^^^This. Sidious is grossly overrated^^^