Though, it's a close fight, Jean has grown in power, but Fahrouk recently needed power ups to stalemate Xavier (using Proteus psionic energy) or beat him (tapping into the network of psis on earth). The both of them are basically stronger than all the other psis, with Xavier being the only one to beat them. (Xavier is number one)
If it's in a straight fight, Fahrouk would win mid difficulty, with feats like
-toying with 90s Psylocke on the astral plane
-Taking control of Rachel
-almost taking out Emma frost, that she had to hide in diamond Form
-Influencing every mind on earth
-Mind controlling Phoenix Rachel and toying with her (though she broke free later and beat him in an astral battle)
Now Jean has similar feats to put her on his level (defeating some of those Telepaths he defeated, and scanning all the minds on earth), but Shadow King has experience, and has shown that he can easily access the network of psis around the world to amp his powers.
Plus he's more ruthless than her, more likely to really go on the offensive.
Depends on what Shadowking were dealing with here.
Shadowking is a monster on the Astral plane due to being a powerful telepath without a body to hold him back. if she fights him there hes got a huge advantage just with sheer knowledge of the plane. He'd still be easy to dispel if she knows hes coming and goes all out (I mean really dude gets beat by everyone including non telepaths), but the Astral plane for shadow king is filled with way too many bugs. Shadowking 6/10
If this is Shadowking alive fighting Jean with pure TP, I'm leaning 50/50 with an edge to Jean because Farouk is almost always over confident.
The thing with Shadowking is that 90% of his feats are prep based and his low ends involve him being beaten by will power of non lowlevel or non telepaths. Hes pretty much lost his only fair fights.
@warlockmage: @mooty_pass: @koays: @del_torro: yeah. I mean shadow king isn’t even a telepath. He takes your soul and the then destroys it, leaving your body dead. That’s something the strongest telepaths can’t counter. And shadow king can’t be TP’d. Not that he has TP resistance, but he just can’t because he’s a spirit.
A more fair match would be phantom stranger vs shadow king. Lol idk why I vote for jean.....
@koays: that will power nonsense is the most annoying kind of nonsense. So Shadow king can take down Rachel grey, Psylocke and Storm, but he can do it to Nightcrawler because "willpower" I -_-
@chosenone1222: many high level Telepaths have affected the soul/spirit and can kill you by destroying your mind/soul.
I'm pretty sure Xavier has beaten Shadow king with telepathy
@del_torro: See where I disagree is that for all his hype....Shadowking has lost every fight he didnt have prep in.
I mean when your near to par with Xavier and you sneak attack powerful telepaths and people with resistance when they have ZERO idea that your coming it's one thing.
But clearly he has trouble replicating this against people who know hes there because weve seen it repeatedly.
Honestly though I completely understand the whole "You cant control my mind because will power" is BS only beaten by "When the telepath was in my mind, I was somehow inside theirs and know their plan"....but when were seriously discussing Shadowking we really do need to include the fact that he doesnt have a body to do most of the things other telepaths do and is mostly limited to suprise attacks and mind control.
@chosenone1222: Not only has Jean affected spirits before and beaten said spirit, but Shadow King has also been attacked by telepaths before.
@del_torro: Xavier himself stated that Jean was much more skilled than Psylocke in the 90’s. So toying with Psylocke in the Astral Plane is not all that impressive since Jean was nowhere near tired when she sparred with Betsy and Betsy looked like she was affected in the fight.
I’m leaning towards Jean, but there are a couple of scenarios that Shadow King could beat Jean in, but Jean takes majority.
Agreed. Especially since there is no prep, which is where Shadow King excels
Agree. I question how powerful he is as a telepath because he has always had time to prepare int he Astral Plane for his plans and already has a foothold in the battleground prior
Shadow King is considered the most powerful mutant ever. There is no way Jean Grey can take him.
By whom? Xavier already beat him way back when 1on1. Shadow King relies heavily on prep and traps. While very powerful indeed, he is not the most powerful.
@onsipin: He was depowered and the writer made a PIS at that time. No one can beat Shadow King.
except Xavier literally beat him in their first encounter ever, that's how their history with each other began. Xavier was also stalemating Shadow King in the Astral plane after Xavier died and Farouk trapped his soul on the Astral Plane. Again, he relies on prep and setups. Jean Grey is more powerful than Xavier and nearly as skilled, she is on the same level as him and would also be able to handle Farouk in a great fight
@sebastian_rommel: 1) Nate Grey is considered the most powerful mutant. Franklin Richards is considered the most powerful mutant. These two are considered the most powerful.
2) Shadow King is not a mutant. He is a psychic entity that exists on the Astral Plane. He used to be a mutant named Amahl Farouk, but that was when he had a human body. He doesn’t.
3) Yes and yes. Jean Grey has proven more than once and has been stated by the current writer to be more powerful than Xavier. Period.
@doofasa: That’s only when Legion gains control over his multiple-personality disorder. And even then, Franklin is still determined on par with Legion all the time. It’s never ending, I swear.
@doofasa: That’s only when Legion gains control over his multiple-personality disorder. And even then, Franklin is still determined on par with Legion all the time. It’s never ending, I swear.
That’s some terrible logic if I’ve ever seen any. Being a mutant isn’t based on power. It’s based on biology, so either you have been living under a rock and are to stubbornly dense to look up what a mutant is in Marvel, or your trolling me. And we both know what I choose.
@del_torro: See where I disagree is that for all his hype....Shadowking has lost every fight he didnt have prep in.
I mean when your near to par with Xavier and you sneak attack powerful telepaths and people with resistance when they have ZERO idea that your coming it's one thing.
But clearly he has trouble replicating this against people who know hes there because weve seen it repeatedly.
Honestly though I completely understand the whole "You cant control my mind because will power" is BS only beaten by "When the telepath was in my mind, I was somehow inside theirs and know their plan"....but when were seriously discussing Shadowking we really do need to include the fact that he doesnt have a body to do most of the things other telepaths do and is mostly limited to suprise attacks and mind control.
Okay, Shadow King destroys Jean in a fight if one looks at the facts objectively.
Let's looks at Shadow King's history:
From the start, Shadow King was established to be a psi equal to Xavier in power, but with greater skill and experience: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/gntgYWwORAlDdfRH3YeC4Ai5IXjeAxWyauBMrqPg5wUsworz9UvEYndIgQrEF6nFgbNz6e1FJIkT=s1600
Notice how he attacks Xavier at a thousand different levels at once: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/SzFy6mqNae52uK6l2ZDP9ofMw2v6ZfTEE8jTNHXz3p3MRfYoihWwgFayCK66eXlRTtsO920GDSzE=s1600
Also, notice in the scans how Shadow King is toying around with Xavier rather than taking care of business. That's what gave Xavier to opening to narrowly win the fight.
So, to restate everything: Shadow King and Xavier were equal in power with SK having the advantage in both skill and experience. However, because of this advantage, he toys around with Xavier and loses the fight.
Now, let's look at their next encounter:
Here, Shadow King is inhabiting a body that is for all intents and purposes dead and kept functional by medical machines: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/UsF4ZafhQrFlszijB_0gh_XRc_dpEImxJ0CXUylyr-f09B8thBs_jq6qyNs1HuacA-rrQTDJCKP9=s1600
Not only is he inhabiting this body, but he's also across the ocean when he takes control of Colossus's mind. Notice how Xavier could not break his hold on Peter with his psi-powers alone in the scans I'm about to post. It takes his psi plus Peter's willpower to break the King's hold: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/o5QWurT6HJl3IPo9WytitWSbPktwe3h3NPYRGW1ZQu2D5TMwtiod3LqSU4UlDMCbmaryuVhAJzNV=s1600
And then, he dwarfs Xavier's power in their psychic fight and beats him badly: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6-F5zAg4T_82E2vRNM9Gi47jJKH_kFF097TbaDQPviKHShPdUn6mip5RIX3uHgKnPTh8udLFalJT=s1600
Keep in mind that this was Pre-Morrison Xavier that Shadow King was going up against in my scans. Xavier was at his most powerful during the 80s and 90s. Jean doesn't approach anywhere near 80's/90's Xavier and Shadow King power levels.
@stormcell: I do enjoy how much time you put into your Jean-hate posts that no one gives a crap about, not even the biggest storm fans. Not referring to this specific post, but to all of them. How many people still actually go through your entire posts lol
@corapvp: Oh, please, it doesn't take me long at all to make my posts. Just a few minutes, actually. You see, I have this dandy memory that recalls the issues and the events that happened in them. I happen to have a very brilliant mind and memory. When I read a lot of nonsense spouted by you guys, I instantly know how to rebut you because of my memory. It only takes me a few seconds to pull up the issue and post a link to the page scan to provide my evidence.
Also, many Storm fans agree with me in silence. I've PM'd with them. :) My only pupose is to show those who like to follow such threads the truth. Even if they don't actively participate, they see the evidence I present for their own eyes.
Plus, I LOVE to fight/debate, so it's fun for me, too. :P
@stormcell: Storm fans also PM me about you :) And if storm fans do agree with you "in silence" that just makes it even juicier, they know you are a cancer and don't want to be associated with you on the forum.
@stormcell: Storm fans also PM me about you :) And if storm fans do agree with you "in silence" that just makes it even juicier, they know you are a cancer and don't want to be associated with you on the forum.
And I care because? Look, I don't care about appeasing other people. I log on here to have fun and prove my point. Sure, the facts aren't always popular with other fanbases, but I present them regardless of what others think. You seriously take this stuff too seriously if you think I'd care about what you're saying. Lighten up. Life would be more fun if you did.
@koays: could you give specifics? I only know of when he fought Xavier the first time
My post has scans of other encounters between Xavier and Shadow King.
@corapvp Jean doesn't have the feats to compete with Shadow King rewiring billions of human minds across the planet, nor does she have showings of her taking on a Pre-Morrison Xavier-level telepath and doing to them what Shadow King did. Shadow King was actually more powerful and more skilled than Xavier at his best. (And Xavier was at his best Pre-Morrison.) Admittedly, nowadays, Shadow King seems to be written far weaker than he used to be.
@stormcell: Storm fans also PM me about you :) And if storm fans do agree with you "in silence" that just makes it even juicier, they know you are a cancer and don't want to be associated with you on the forum.
And I care because? Look, I don't care about appeasing other people. I log on here to have fun and prove my point. Sure, the facts aren't always popular with other fanbases, but I present them regardless of what others think. You seriously take this stuff too seriously if you think I'd care about what you're saying. Lighten up. Life would be more fun if you did.
Telling me I take it stuff too seriously when you go out of your way to lie and twist stuff to suit your own agenda lol ok. But don't worry about me honey, I have lots of fun watching you making a fool of yourself trying so desperately to convince people of your alternative facts when no one is buying it
@corapvp: Please. You post over and over again that scan showing the results of the Storm vs. Jean poll and then try and use Storm fans as a weapon against me. LOL! It's beyond foolish. While you may get more Storm fans to disagree with me regarding how Jean fares against other psis, one point they and I agree strongly on is Ororo would beat Jean in a fight.
That said, there is obviously a strong Jean bias on this board where other characters are being underestimated to prop her up. Personally, I'll just content myself with pointing that out when the mood strikes. :)
Oh, and by the way, none of what you said rebuts the actual, factual scans I produced where Shadow King mind-controlled the entire planet. Jean is nowhere near that kind of power level and she has no feats to show I'm wrong. Not only that, but Shadow King is also far more skilled and experienced than Jean, and even more skilled and experienced than Xavier who also beats out Jean in this regard. So, in terms of power, its Shadow King>Xavier>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jean.
In terms of skill, its Shadow King>Xavier>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jean.
@crimenoir: please elaborate. What has he won? He plans preps and traps and still loses every time. Xavier beat him. Karma beat him. Pyslocke beat him.
@stormcell: you mean these? I'm free to post these all I want as you are to post your nonsense fact twisting
Also I'm not dumb enough to actually debate you lol. Me posting about Jean x Nova was just to see how you could possibly lie your way out of factual evidence, and you did, which just proves that you really are not worth debating and this forum is right for calling you a clown. I dunno why that pyro guy keeps trying. I've already been asked through inbox by a storm fan to please ignore you as you are not a reliable source of information for Storm and make the fandom look bad, and if you can't even get your goddess correct, then you certainly have 0 grasp of other characters.
Jean. Shawdowking is nothing without prep. Even 1980s Karma beat him on the astral plane.
Actually, this is not true because you are omitting salient facts. When Karma stopped Shadow King, he was greatly weakened by jumping from host to host:
And she could not follow him to the Astral Plane: https://readcomicsonline.me/reader/mangas/New%20Mutants%201983/New%20Mutants%20(1983)%2034/prompto-06-023.jpg
@corapvp: Post that polls all you want. I honestly don't care. Also, most Storm fans stand in solidarity that Ororo would have the advantage over Jean in a fight. This is true is you don't PIS Storm and look at the evidence objectively.
So, I don't care about a poll that reflects an unfair bias.
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