Jean Grey vs Red Onslaught - telepathy only

Rules:

• Jean has no phoenix
• Morals off for both characters
• no psi-leeching or pink form
• telepathy only

This is hard to judge....

I lean Jean.

I think I'll go with Jean on this one

Jean but barely

Jean but close

Jean. It's like fighting Xavier except without his skill

red onslaught he is just like first evolution onslaught and he was able to bypass telepathic defenses of Apocalypse and Dr doom who are usually depicted as immune but it could be close

Even Z'cann can mind*** Dr Doom and she's below Jean.

That wasn't Apocalypse in Axis, it was Evan, Apocalypse kid clone who has zero telepathy defense feats

I would lean jean but I do believe a case could be made for red slaughty....

Jean will take this because Red Onslaught. Arguably more powerful, definitely more skilled and experienced

The Jean bias on this board is very strong. Jean gets creamed badly against Onslaught.

Red Onslaught mind controlled Doctor Strange, Vision, Hulk, Doom (briefly) and the entire world at the same time. I've never seen anything as crazy as that from Jean.

What he did to Strange is probably enough in and of itself.

Red Onslaught isn't very strong in actual telepathic combat tbh. His range is great, but Quire of all people was able to block his telepathy for multiple hours. That doesn't bode well for his fight here.

@stormcell: Red Onslaught though??? Aside from being near featless, he doesnt even have the TP knowledge or the pure intelligence of the original Onslaught. Hes just a giant monster that sends off TP waves.

@AlphaQ: I forgot that Dr Strange was there. Damn that's an high end feat.

What if it's a low showing for strange, because I remember Quentin was blocking red onslaught for hours and it's hard for me to imagine Quentin Quire having better mental defenses than doctor strange.

Hmm, controlling doctor strange makes me want push Red Onslaught above Jean, I don't think she could replicate that

I'd really say that controlling Strange is a outliner, tbh.

He (Onslaught) doesn't do anything to that high of capability again in any part of the fight, and Quire blocked him locally for a good few hours.

Plus Red Onslaught's literally just Xavier's brain in the hands of someone less experienced. It depends if you feel that Xavier could beat Strange in TP.

@del_torro: Honestly I'm a Quire wanker because he's probably my favorite Marvel character but I would say that Quire holding him at bay is a high end feat/outlier for him, not a low end feat for Red Onslaught. Red Onslaught is supposed to be this terrifying telepathic monster, on a level that people like Doom, Evan!Apocalypse, Magneto and the heroes and villains of the Marvel universe united to defeat him, of a similar level to the first Onslaught. Thematically I don't think anything he did to establish his threat level was anything other than a legitimate display of his horrible, incredible power.

Also, I think that since we have a whole issue devoted to Strange trying to fight off the mind control and failing, whereas Quire appeared in like fours panels, initially just to handwave away why everyone wasn't already RO's slave, that the creative intent was much more deliberate in showing that Red Onslaught > Strange than it was in showing Quire was relative to him.

I mean, in E for Extinction when Quire confronted Magneto, Erik stomped and killed him, reminding him that as a mutant he is just on another level in comparison to Quentin, even without his helmet. Now, this is a future Quire who had additional training and experience. Whereas in the AXIS storyline Magneto was just another of the villains who sided with the heroes to face this new threat. Regualar Quire is not a threat to Magneto, whereas RO is something he is willing to drop everything and side with mortal enemies to confront.

EDIT: Just a point of correction, we might not have gotten a full issue of Strange and Red Onslaught, it may have been a subplot within one issue. I only remember reading the Strange part because I was having a debate with him.

@del_torro: How good are dr.strange’s mental defenses?

@stormcell: Jean bias? Red Onslaught does not have the feats to compare to Jean.

Your agenda against Jean is laughable.

Jean wins

revive

@koays: rekill

Worth noting due to the comments about strange that Ronslaught has 2 instances with with him to my knowledge. The first was with his hate wave that while strange couldn't undo it he also was able to resist it. The other was when he controlled strange to take himself out, which was at a time where strange and Wanda were casting a spell and he specifically said they would be defenseless while casting

Jean by a hair

Jean should take this in a good fight. Even If we are to say Onslaught is more powerful, he lacks the skill and experience to defeat a top tier like Jean

Queen summers ftw