Jean Grey vs Professor X

@marvelfan1992: Xaiver is aware of how powerful she is, he will most likely try to turn it into an astral plane fight from jump.

Reread this panel discussing Scott and Jeens new connection.

Jeen beat Emma with Scott's help and because Emma's cosmic cube fragment bled into the psi-space while Jeen was talking Emma down through her morals, which allowed them both to overcome her.

See, not only is Jeen talking Emma down, but we clearly see Emma's cosmic cube fragment present, to represent where this extra burst of power is coming from.

To be fair, Jean wasn't exactly out of the fight. In fact, Scott was integral in directing Jean in what to do, but Jean was responsible of stopping Cassandra from killing Wolverine and everyone else, but through her telekinesis

It must have not been that bad, just a bit crippling, no big deal. See shes just fine now

@pyrofn: I read that part, I guess I just skimmed through it too fast. Also I just noticed that Emma’s costume has an x. Maybe it symbolizes something. Maybe that she still sees herself as a hero for mutants.

@pyrofn said:

@elpendejo said:

@marvelfan1992: ok so it was issue 9. Just reread it, it was all Jeen for the telepathic part. I’m still wondering how she was able to do it. Jeen shouldn’t be able to beat Emma even without the mind gem.

Reread this panel discussing Scott and Jeens new connection.

Jeen beat Emma with Scott's help and because Emma's cosmic cube fragment bled into the psi-space while Jeen was talking Emma down through her morals, which allowed them both to overcome her.

See, not only is Jeen talking Emma down, but we clearly see Emma's cosmic cube fragment present, to represent where this extra burst of power is coming from.

Sorry, I'm calling BS on this. PIS on a whole different level. Either were going to call this a win over Emma with an asterisk for her being more conflicted then we realized or this is gonna be straight up PIS because Jeen beating Emma is a joke that breaks the franchise, AGAIN

@pyrofn said:

@koays said:

@corapvp said:

@marvelfan1992: those scans just show how powerful Jean has become. Even if she was able to stomp them like that before, Cassandra could not do anything to current Jean. Jean was easily defending from Cassandra and Cassandra was only able to touch her after she had already stretched her mind to its limits

Not that I entirely disagree. But the last time Nova attacked them she did it through Cerebra and then proceeded to stomp them because they had no idea how to deal with a Mummamdra. Jean basically KO'd herself by trying to reach into Nova's mind. So alot of what they are both doing now is very different from their first approaches.

@marvelfan1992 said:

@corapvp: as koays said it's not entirely the same situation but it is indeed a good showing for Jean that Nova could not do much to her telepathically

@koays: Jean attempting to engage Nova's mind then ending up foaming at the mouth gave me TAS Jean vibes lmao

To be fair, Jean wasn't exactly out of the fight. In fact, Scott was integral in directing Jean in what to do, but Jean was responsible of stopping Cassandra from killing Wolverine and everyone else, but through her telekinesis

It must have not been that bad, just a bit crippling, no big deal. See shes just fine now

Idk, it seems like whatever Nova's effect was it was very short lived if Cyclops can go from the bugs giving him relationship advice to plotting out a strategy. Idk. It still comes off as Jean not having the knowledge to properly engage Nova on the first try and seems to have more to do with Nova being weird then anything else.

@koays: Well apparently Scott helped. Still trying to see where it specifically said Scott .

@koays: It is PIS. Under normal circumstances, Emma would stomp Jeen, but the problem was, Emma wasn’t thinking straight and Jeen knew that, so combining Scott’s resistance and Emma’s doubt allowed Jeen to help Scott overcome Emma’s influence and the cosmic cube powering up an omega level mutant with the help of the mind it resides in gave Jeen the upper hand as Emma started to lose her confidence in what she was doing.

It’s like if you had someone tied up and you were tugging them away with them resisting. Naturally, I’m not properly accustomed to pulling the rope correctly in a tug-o-war, but I’m really strong and muscular and have someone else helping me out as I tell you why you shouldn’t be kidnapping the person. You used to be a respectable citizen who wanted stay just that, but events forced your hand against your will, you don’t want this life, but feel you need to do this to go back to normal. I’m telling you that isn’t the way while taking advantage your doubt. What’s more, I’m using the steroid brand your using to give my already strong body some more muscle.

What would be the outcome?

@koays: Maybe we can count on Novas weirdness being a short lived thing for the future then if her potency is as ineffective as you say. All things considered, Jean is an omega level psychic and Scott has training from Jean on how to resist powerful psychics, so it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to assume that Nova wasn’t thorough with Scott and that Jean has fast recovery time.

@pyrofn@koays I mean no one actually thinks Jeen can beat Emma legitimately so whatever happened there is negligible IMO lol

Lol i'm just so glad she's gone. She is such a Mary Sue that it hurts me to understand.

@koays: I'm not. Where do I get insanely powerful Jean feats now??? wahahaha

@marvelfan1992: In two weeks when marvel inevitably makes Rachel seem like a scrub before Jean.

@elpendejo: great, then Jean can be Mesmero tier lmaooo. sadly smacking Rachel is not currently a powerful feat o_0

all jokes aside, I do hope their battle is amazing

@marvelfan1992: Sad but true.

@koays: Me too. And I hope they have a heartfelt conversation when it’s over. I love Jean and Rachel moments

Gallery

I know right?

X-Men Red 9: Face off between Rachel Grey and Jean "I'm not your mother Rachel" Grey

@marvelfan1992: Jean was wrong for that, I mean she’s right of course , but she could be just a little bit nicer about it

@marvelfan1992 said:

@koays said:

@elpendejo said:

I know right?

X-Men Red 9: Face off between Rachel Grey and Jean "I'm not your mother Rachel" Grey

YEARS of character development on this issue.

Rachel has killed for, nearly died avenging and been permanently scarred for family connections to this woman.

Rachel has carried on the womans legacy.

Her most important character trait is her need to connect to this woman.

But according to this writer Jean doesn't care.

The most powerful psychic on the planet doesn't know how wrong that is.

She considers CABLE her son, and not Rachel.

NEVER MIND THAT THIS WAS RESOLVED 20 YEARS AGO!

Gallery

That's it. The gloves are off. KICK HER ASS RACHEL!

@elpendejo: excuse me don't drag for this. Whoever wrote this garbage must be burned at the stake lol. I am convinced the writer of Gold HATES Rachel.

@koays: I love Jean to death, but I I’m with you on this Rachel kicking her ass lol

@marvelfan1992: I wouldn’t doubt it. The prestige costume alone makes me wonder if one of the gold writters wants Rachel to be unpopular as possible lol

@elpendejo: @marvelfan1992: You wanna know the worst part. Guggenheim....HE'S A RACHEL FAN!!! He literally wrote the only follow up to the Death of Grey's arc that Rachel ever got. Which is basically one of only 2 storylines she's been the focus of in 20 years. Smh...Rachel beats Jean in Red or I'm fighting Guggenheim.

My ideal scenario would be close fight between them but Jean loses due to holding back vs Rachel, but as she's about to kill Jean, she's able to break free of Nova's control. This takes everything out of her though and as usual she faints then Jean gets mad and goes after Nova herself and they have an epic fight woot woot

@koays: Wow. Psylocke had a fan write her and she got power ups out the wazoo. Rachel had a fan write her and she gets mind funked with constantly when she shouldn’t and she loses a mother figure. I think I might join you.

@marvelfan1992: I'm with anything short of Rachel falling into a coma..which is a very likely thing to happen given how Marvel likes to play it. But if we get a cop out im going full militant as a Rachel fan.

@marvelfan1992: Mine would kind of be like that, except Jean would try snap Rachel out of it by showing her her memories of 811 Jean, which I would hope lead to Jean feeling a much deeper connection to Rachel and hopefully she’ll finally recognize her as much as her child as Cable is. I mean I thought she already did that but i guess Guggenheim would disagree.

@koays: Remember when everyone called real Jean a Mary Sue?

I’m also pretty sure Bendis ruined the Mary Sue image for Teen Jean a long time ago. And Hopeless followed that train of thought for the solo, but at least his story was both good and ended with a satisfying conclusion.

@pyrofn: Jeen had a lot more WOW SO POWERFUL moments than adult Jean asdfjkhlfaskagkangajnfaklgajkgnaka;cadf.fa;lf,a

@lordofallhumans:Cassandra Nova may be an evil bitch but at least she recognizes Rachel as Jean's daughter, unlike Jean LOOL

this thread is so derailed I think that's like a whole page without a mention of Xavier lmao

@marvelfan1992: Only because of her young age.

Edit: Also, Guggenheim’s characterization of Jean should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

@pyrofn: no one in their right mind should take him seriously. Gold is a huge joke.

It's not just her young age though, it's because she had a lot of fights in the many books she was part of. Jean has only been in Red which is once a freaking month and the storyline is more about social issues and what not so there wasn't much fighting for her to really show off that much. But hopefully we see more from her soon

@marvelfan1992: Maybe we’ll be lucky in Uncanny. I’m guessing she’ll be the primary telepath since Psylocke isn’t as good as her.

Lol Guggenheim's characterization of everyone should be taken with a grain of salt.

Kitty and Colossus, Jean, Rachel and Nightcrawler (though this he gets from Claremont)..... the best written character he had is probably Iceman for those 2 issues.

@koays: His Rogue wasn’t bad either, though not very notable if I’m honest, but I liked her convo with Bobby about letting Pyro join.

@marvelfan1992: You do realize that we haven’t forgotten the many years of history Jean has been apart of. Just coming back from the dead won’t erase any of that.

Needless to say, we still saw adult Jeans power in Phoenix Resurrection and Red has its moments for Jean where her powers reach a planetary scale.

While I can agree Teen Jean May be fresh in peoples minds, no ones forgotten who the original is and why they top Teen Jean.

@pyrofn: I'm not talking about what she's done in the past. I'm talking about what she's done since her return, which is nothing fancy. (I'm well aware of what she did in PR and it was great). During her death and especially sicne Jeen was around, they made it a point and kept reiterating that Jeen is super powerful but just an ant compared to adult Jean, and kept saying how powerful adult Jean is, and Jean said herself that she is no longer holding back now and exploring her powers, so yes I definitely expected spectacular shows of power from her NOW. But as I said, it's been limited

in the same token, Jean is aware of how skilled Xavier is and may want to take advantage of her power by keeping the fight out of the astral plane. But yeah it was just a thought, I doubt she'll be able to take him out with TP blasts before he can engage her mind on the astral plane or in her mind

@marvelfan1992: I’m pretty sure reading the worlds thoughts and feelings is anything but limiting, alongside finding the worlds greatest minds in quick succession. Or multi-tasking her telepathic mind while speaking to Black Bolt in her head. Punching Galactus is great and all, but Jean has just come back from the dead and Teen Jean didn’t do that until Generations, which was what, two events ago? Give it just a little more time. Not even a year has gone by since Jeans Return.

@pyrofn: You're referring to Red 1 right? We don't know how long it took her to find all those people, or if she scanned every brain on the planet to find them, or if she used Cerebro, or even google so that's not a feat for me personally, it's too vague. I also don't think she read the world's thoughts in the sense that she went through every person's mind (like what Rachel did before), seemed more like a general scan, but yes still planetary but at this point that isn't a big feat for her. Yes the part in Annual where she was multitasking so much with her mind was impressive, but it's just not up to par with what I expected given the amount of hype they have given her. It's just more of what we already know she can do, and she's supposed to be MORE than what she was before as she herself said, she was holding back until now, so I expected some groundbreaking feats from her. But yeah, hopefully we get some good stuff from her soon

@pyrofn: @marvelfan1992: Honestly I'm not even looking for MASSIVE power feats from Jean. All she needs really is to beat Nova in an impressive way and that would be enough. A psychic like Jean who we know is at the top of her class cant be over saturated with feats. Jean already has a long history of broken feats and trying to hard to make those feats and capabilities the sum of the character is what soured so many X-Fans on Teen Jean.

It's for the best if her feats are spread out thinly, especially if she is going to be one of the most prominent X-Men in the coming years. Which she should be...since no one cares about most of the other X-men at the moment.

@koays: a big part of why people hated those things for Jeen was because she just got her powers and is so young and inexperienced, she shouldn't just suddenly be able to be so powerful. Jean on the other hand has been hyped up and built up over the years, so I don't see anything wrong with giving her feats to match her supposed power-level.

@marvelfan1992: Funny, that sudden power boost is why i loved her in all new x men. I mean going from the O5’s damsel in distress to the power house of the O5 is interesting, at least to me. But I got tired of it by the time x men blue came along.

@elpendejo: That sudden power boost was essentially cramming 40years of growth as a character and as a mutant into the first 10 issues. It's to the point that she doesnt even get a chance to ACT like 60s Jean for more then a few panels before she starts jumping around eratically in characterization a d the story begins to wrap around her.

@koays: Huh, didn’t look at it that way. Guess it does kind of make Jeen seem less endearing as Jean since Jeen didn’t have to struggle her way to that power unlike Jean.

Yet another potentially interesting arc sacrificed so we could have scenes like Tyke being baffled by the existence of bottled water.

@elpendejo: Honestly I mostly was bothered by it because I am a big fan of the Original X-Factor book. Which is very easy to compare to the 2 Bendis books especially in characterization of the O5

@marvelfan1992: 1) How Long? It certainly was the span of a single night considering it was nighttime when she took offf for the sky and it was night when she was looking out at the distance from the height. So, not long at all.

2) Did she use Cerebro? Does it look like she is using Cerebro? The text says

“I can hear you. I can feel your pain.”

That means it is happening as she is thinking at that moment. If it was supposed to be past tense, the sentence would,

“I heard you. I felt your pain.”

3) Did she scan every mind on the planet to find the greatest minds? She would have to in order to locate them so quickly in a short span of time. She is still wearing the same outfit when she left, so either she took off to find them when she started scanning, or Jean has not showered in days as you’re insinuating. If this were gonna take a long span of time, then we’d know it was and we wouldn’t see Jean panel after panel in the same outfit. We would see her meet with them like in business meetings.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eanHLSIeJ14/WnubiMoLKwI/AAAAAAAACoM/xSg9KgqHWsUJLcHX6UNbt7leBAkLkjeQgCHMYCw/s1600/RCO019.jpg

4) Did she google them? Again, that would take a large passage of time. Even then, there are two many opinions over the Internet on whose the greatest for this and that. Jean isn’t a genius, nor is she a technopath. It would take her more than a month to pick and choose who she would allow to help her vision.

She invited everyone, which includes philosophers, artists, writers, doctors, scientists, historians, etc. And we don’t even see everybody since there is a clear cut off of the art. Jean can’t find everyone that quickly over the Internet, she would have to look to confirm that they are legit and read dissenting opinions on whose is better. Reading their minds are more efficient because she can know their goals and intent in the short amount of time that we see it clearly take her.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GzWTa3nhySs/WnubiqbwuRI/AAAAAAAACoQ/xIqc6Lgu_jU72igExey3sPqlOEoL2v5oACHMYCw/s1600/RCO020.jpg