@professorrespect said:
@stormcell: He broke a dead planet with a bunch of blows. Woo. Nothing like you said he was able to do tho before lol
And he's stalemating with Hyperion, who's a rubbish mid tier who also isn't planet busting, how is any of this supposed to impress me
The scans speak for themselves. You're lowballing the character because it doesn't fit what you like. Not going to entertain a debate with you since everyone can read the scans for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
pot calling the kettle black lmao
Storm runs mid-tier gauntlet:
Again, the instances you bring up are PIS according to internet rules.
Note how Scott was terrified Storm's hurricane would level NYC, but she calmly explains how it was not an issue since she has total control over her powers. Yup, the Val thing was PIS.
Jean & storm vs Rachel & Polaris
Again, neither Jean or Rachel are getting past Ororo's mental defenses without some very serious PIS.
Storm vs omega levels
If Storm wanted to attack Vulcan internally by taking control of the electrical impulses in his brain, could he contest her for it? Yes. Could he beat her? Not without PIS.
he only reason he's ever been able to survive a fight with her is because she holds back even more against him than she does other characters, and then she gets PIS'd on top of it.
In other words, they'd have to break through Storm's barrier first, and given that Storm is more powerful than either Jean or Exodus, good luck with them doing that without PIS.
It should also be noted that Storm defeated the combined power of Bogan (a Xavier-level psychic entity) PLUS Rachel while she was showing signs of a Phoenix possession. This feat alone would make any instance of Rachel (or any other psi) messing with Storm's mind PIS. As far as seven telepaths getting into her head over the past year or so, that just shows that her mental defenses are being PIS'd.
4) The only way I see Jean beating Ororo would be if she connected with a TK assault. Her TP would be useless against a non-PIS'd Ororo.
The way I see it, any of these characters can beat Ororo just like she can beat any of them. However, what we are looking at here is who would most likely be the victor in a fight without PIS? Who would have the greater advantage in a fight? The answer is Storm. She has a total advantage over the other characters in a one-on-one with any of them.
Anywho, it still doesn't matter. I posted scans of Storm defeating far better telepaths than Rachel. So, any scan with Rachel getting into Ororo's head is PIS. End of story.
I repeat: any instance where Jean or Rachel or any other psi invades Storm's mind against her will is PISunless she's caught off-guard.
Jean & storm vs magneto
Even under these circumstances PIS was needed to weaken Storm for Magneto to win.
Magneto hasn't redirected a lightning bolt from Storm in decades. It was PIS when he did it anyway back in the day (and what he actually did was create an interference field which deflected the bolt back at her after it bounced off).
This is why Storm was always written as a far gentler fighter when she battled Magneto than when she fought any other foe. It was done to give him a chance at winning. On top of her fighting him with kid gloves, she was also PIS'd in the power department
That said, Classic Magneto would have the advantage against Jean in a one-on-one fight, but would totally lose to a non-PIS'd Ororo. Pitting the two women together against Magneto is a total overkill.
Sienna Blaze has FAR MORE raw power than Magneto, and Storm summoned winds strong enough to redirect Blaze's full power. Magneto cannot stand up to Ororo without some serious PIS writing her down.
Jean vs emma Rachel
That said, a non-PIS'd Emma could take Jean alone telepathically
Rachel jeen jean vs nova exodus candra
To be honest, Jeen draining psionic energy from Galactus (unless it was only ambient psionic energy he was giving off) was total PIS
I still maintain that all Jeen did in that PIS Galactus story was drain the ambient psionic energy given off by everyone on that planet to hit Galactus.
Teen Jeen beating Emma Frost was total PIS.
It only makes Jean look bad when you try and make these claims. Jean is no slouch as a psi, but she's clearly not as powerful as a non-PIS'd versions of the following characters: Emma, Nova, Exodus, Xavier, X-Man, Legion, Stryfe, etc.
Jean Rachel nate vs apocalypse sinister stryfe
Jean tossing him with her TK is pure PIS.
Jean vs Onslaught
The Pink Phoenix/Galactus feat was total PIS. There was nowhere near enough power on that planet to even scratch an itch on Galactus.
One more thing, I don't know why people try to use the Gladiator vs. Jeen fight as meaning anything. Gladiator's power levels are never constant since its based on his confidence, and gets PIS'd all the time when he fights the X-Men.
Given all of this, I'll admit that Jean could beat Gladiator telepathically without PIS if she were given the opportunity to get into his head. He's weak against telepathic foes.
Jean vs Storm
The Jeen punching Galactus instance was pure PIS for a ton of reasons. Galactus was lowballed tremendously there to prop up Jeen. It was really sad.
PIS doesn't count. I brought up scans of Storm beating psis far more powerful than Jean Grey. All you've done is come up with an instance where Storm's mental defenses has been ignored (which is what usually happens when Storm is placed on the same team as Jean Grey).
Bogan combined with Rachel, Emma Frost, all of whom Storm has defeated with her mental defenses. Jean is not winning this fight without some serious PIS against Ororo.
5) Storm getting mind-controlled by Mary was PIS. Jean losing to Mary was her being in-character since she loses most of her psi fights anyway.
Jean grey vs exodus
Storm is immune to lightning depending on who's writing. Since she's been given immunity in some stories, that makes the instances where she's harmed by it PIS.
That said, looking at the Exodus vs. Rachel, Iceman, Rogue, Wolverine, Cannonball, Gambit and Beast fight, I don't think Jean would stand a chance against him even now without PIS.
5) I agree that Emma would not prevail against Xavier, but she should beat Jean in a fair fight if the PISfactor did not come into play to give Jean the win.
So, just like Unlimited #1 PIS'd Storm, the issue you're referring to PIS'd Emma because that is a limit she had long surpassed. Truthfully, I believe this was likely done to Emma to try and justify making Jean an omega mutant while removing the title from Emma who had been one for years before this.
) Jean getting past defenses Xavier could not is laughable given Xavier's high end feats. It's complete PISunless she was boosted by Cerebro, Cerebra, or the Phoenix Force at that time.
As far as her putting an illusion in Magneto's head, that was PIS given his mental defenses in early years. Again, Magneto has been devalued in the 2000s to prop up Jean.
You have no proof that Emma was fighting a weaker Exodus. Also, Emma has the telepathic feats to take on a non-PISExodus, unlike Jean Grey.
Omega level mutants strongest to weakest
Iceman's defeat of Stranger was pure PIS, by the way
Hickman’s omegas
As far as Jean penetrating minds Xavier could not, it's PIS unless she was being boosted by the PF, Cerebro, Cerebra, or some other external means. Xavier's feats are better than hers.
Iceman vs storm
Iceman isn't going to be stealing control of the moisture in Ororo's body from her without some serious PISwriting Storm down, nor is he going to be able to withstand an attack from Ororo if she targets the electrical impulses in his brain with her control over the subatomic electron particle.
This is comics. Characters are PIS'd all the time for the sake of the story. Storm has been the biggest victim of PISamong the X-Men over the years.
3) Iceman vs. Stranger was pure PIS
1) And again, Iceman beating Stranger was pure PIS for reasons I've already posted.
I still don't think it would make a difference whether or not Iceman has his morals on or off for reasons already presented to debunk that. Iceman would lose against Ororo unless she's being PIS'd.
Also, I'm not sure I buy Thor being pierced by ice. That was probably PIS against his invulnerability. However, I would assert that Bobby could pierce Ororo if she stood there and did nothing while he attempted it.
Moving on, Thor was totally PIS'd in that fight against Bobby.
Also, I don't care about the Thor vs. Iceman fight either. It was pure PIS against Thor. I showed scans of Thor using FAR more power in other fights than he used against Bobby.
You mean high tiers are constantly being PIS'd to prop Iceman up .
Thor was PIS'd BADLY when he fought Bobby, and that's just the way it is regardless of your personal feelings on the subject which you obviously wish to be otherwise.
Also, Bobby impaling Thor with that ice spike was pure PIS
In short, this Iceman vs. Thor fight doesn't do Bobby any good since it's riddled with PIS.
As for Storm vs. Iceman, she's a much bigger threat to him that Thor would be even if Thor was not PIS'd in this fight. Her powerset grants her a unique immunity to most of Bobby's attack plus she has her internal attacks.
Jean vs Apocalypse
I already proved in another thread that Jeen affecting Galactus was also PIS given his durability feats.
It's still canon that Gladiator gets PIS'd when he fights the X-Men.
If you want to try and argue that drew on psionic energy from Galactus and the PF, neither was putting out anywhere near enough energy to hurt Galactus. That much free floating energy would at the minimum destroy a solar system given his feats when he's not PIS'd.
This Jean vs. Gladiator thing is a shining example of the problem I have with the character, and it wasn't even necessary to do this PIS. The writer could've had Jean reasonably clobber Gladiator with a TP attack. Instead, they PIS'd him by scaling him back so that he tied with her in a physical collision.
Jean won't beat him without the Phoenix Force OR him being PIS'd
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