Jean Grey Runs a DC Telepathy Gauntlet

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#3  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

Likely stops at Destiny, based on the feats I've seen.

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I'm going with Destiny.

Most of the ones I'm familiar with are power based and dont have the skill and Astral feats

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Likely stops at Destiny, based on the feats I've seen.

You think she makes it past Brainiac?

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@kasya_carey: Milton Fine Brainiac really isn't massively impressive outside of good power, his skill isn't really there

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@kasya_carey: Milton Fine Brainiac really isn't massively impressive outside of good power, his skill isn't really there

Isn't he at least galaxy level with his TP. His skill might not be there but it's enough to easily overpower Jean.

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@kasya_carey: The range is there, but I've not seen anything to suggest he's capable of pushing his telepathy to those levels, and I got the feats myself lol

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@kasya_carey: The range is there, but I've not seen anything to suggest he's capable of pushing his telepathy to those levels, and I got the feats myself lol

I'm confused? Emma Frost range has expanded to planetary and she is considered a planetary telepath

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#10  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@kasya_carey: Yeah, but she also has decades of strong statements, good battles against other high tier telepaths, and a consistent range in which he functions in.

Milton Fine Brainiac has no real statements showing how powerful he is in telepathy, he's never really battled any high tier telepath outside of crushing a fodder psychic and getting beat easily by Maxima, and his range seems to be really not specific, he can travel galaxies using his mind, but can't even control a full city with his powers.

In short, range only doesn't indicate telepathic power or skill by itself.

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@kasya_carey: Yeah, but she also has decades of strong statements, good battles against other high tier telepaths, and a consistent range in which he functions in.

Milton Fine Brainiac has no real statements showing how powerful he is in telepathy, he's never really battled any high tier telepath outside of crushing a fodder psychic and getting beat easily by Maxima, and his range seems to be really not specific, he can travel galaxies using his mind, but can't even control a full city with his powers.

-When did he struggle to control a full city? I mean statements aren't the determination of your power. Brainiac was extending his range to find supes.

In short, range only doesn't indicate telepathic power or skill by itself.

-I would think range is important to the power. That's like a city level telepath trying to expanded a message to the next country but can't because their maximum range is only city level.

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#12  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@kasya_carey: The guy could only control a single building in a whole city, couldn't extend anymore than that, and his earlier appearances had him use tech to amp his telepathy due to it not being exactly up to par.

I mean, if you wonna even be called a planetary telepathy, you have to sorta.....do something on a global scale, like scan all of the minds on Earth, or control them, or manipulate them in some extent. Milton Fine Brainiac has done nothing on that scale. Ever. His range for scanning is pretty big, sure, but the actual quality, not quantity, of his telepathy is lacking. I wouldn't say he's anything close to galaxy level based on statements I've already made, and the fact that I looked at all of his feats.

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Feats for destiny?

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Stops at Despero

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@kasya_carey: The guy could only control a single building in a whole city, couldn't extend anymore than that, and his earlier appearances had him use tech to amp his telepathy due to it not being exactly up to par.

I mean, if you wonna even be called a planetary telepathy, you have to sorta.....do something on a global scale, like scan all of the minds on Earth, or control them, or manipulate them in some extent. Milton Fine Brainiac has done nothing on that scale. Ever. His range for scanning is pretty big, sure, but the actual quality, not quantity, of his telepathy is lacking. I wouldn't say he's anything close to galaxy level based on statements I've already made, and the fact that I looked at all of his feats.

Psylocke is considered a planetary telepathy but yet has not done anything like that at all. She planetary because she can feel every mind on earth and sensed the phoenix from moon to earth. I don't see why range is out. Emma might have feats of broadcasting a message to all 198 mutants on earth or mind linking with Nate while he's on the other side of the planet. But it would cost extraordinary power from her to scan a galaxy to find someone. Being planetary is not all about mind control.

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Stops at Despero

She definitely stops at Maxima. Brainwave is far above Jean. Not to mention MMH could not stop Maxima and it took the entire JL to put her down for a moment.

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@professorrespect said:

@kasya_carey: The guy could only control a single building in a whole city, couldn't extend anymore than that, and his earlier appearances had him use tech to amp his telepathy due to it not being exactly up to par.

I mean, if you wonna even be called a planetary telepathy, you have to sorta.....do something on a global scale, like scan all of the minds on Earth, or control them, or manipulate them in some extent. Milton Fine Brainiac has done nothing on that scale. Ever. His range for scanning is pretty big, sure, but the actual quality, not quantity, of his telepathy is lacking. I wouldn't say he's anything close to galaxy level based on statements I've already made, and the fact that I looked at all of his feats.

Psylocke is considered a planetary telepathy but yet has not done anything like that at all.

I don't consider Psylocke as being close to planetary so not sure what this has to do with anything lol

She planetary because she can feel every mind on earth and sensed the phoenix from moon to earth.

So just Gamesmaster tier then? He's also not planetary, in fact it's even stated that he can't do planetary things despite being a uncontrollable omnipath.

I don't see why range is out.

Never said it was, read again

Emma might have feats of broadcasting a message to all 198 mutants on earth or mind linking with Nate while he's on the other side of the planet.

Strong, consistent feats, correct.

But it would cost extraordinary power from her to scan a galaxy to find someone.

That's just based on implication. Brainiac isn't even planetary, let alone multi or galaxy level like you are saying lol, it's just not feasible with the feats and the facts on the table. I'm not repeating myself so you can read the previous responses for every question you want to be answered.

Also, Brainiac has a unique connection with Superman due to their telepathic battles in the past, that meant he could find Clark's mind far easier than standard, so the feat clearly has context as well.

Being planetary is not all about mind control.

I never said it was, Brainiac has done nothing at a planetary scale, not even scanning, which is a rather simple thing for most high tier telepaths to do, yet he's never done anything close to it. It's pretty open and shut.

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#19  Edited By kasya_carey

@professorrespect said:
@kasya_carey said:
@professorrespect said:

@kasya_carey: The guy could only control a single building in a whole city, couldn't extend anymore than that, and his earlier appearances had him use tech to amp his telepathy due to it not being exactly up to par.

I mean, if you wonna even be called a planetary telepathy, you have to sorta.....do something on a global scale, like scan all of the minds on Earth, or control them, or manipulate them in some extent. Milton Fine Brainiac has done nothing on that scale. Ever. His range for scanning is pretty big, sure, but the actual quality, not quantity, of his telepathy is lacking. I wouldn't say he's anything close to galaxy level based on statements I've already made, and the fact that I looked at all of his feats.

Psylocke is considered a planetary telepathy but yet has not done anything like that at all.

I don't consider Psylocke as being close to planetary so not sure what this has to do with anything lol

-Ugh why not she can battle with planetary telepath

She planetary because she can feel every mind on earth and sensed the phoenix from moon to earth.

So just Gamesmaster tier then? He's also not planetary, in fact it's even stated that he can't do planetary things despite being a uncontrollable omnipath.

-If you can sense everyone on earth with telepathy. That is planetary telepathy

I don't see why range is out.

Never said it was, read again

-I'm just saying

Emma might have feats of broadcasting a message to all 198 mutants on earth or mind linking with Nate while he's on the other side of the planet.

Strong, consistent feats, correct.

-okay

But it would cost extraordinary power from her to scan a galaxy to find someone.

That's just based on implication. Brainiac isn't even planetary, let alone multi or galaxy level like you are saying lol, it's just not feasible with the feats and the facts on the table. I'm not repeating myself so you can read the previous responses for every question you want to be answered.

-The range of your power says a lot.

-Also, Brainiac has a unique connection with Superman due to their telepathic battles in the past, that meant he could find Clark's mind far easier than standard, so the feat clearly has context as well.

-That means what? He would still have to scan to find him

Being planetary is not all about mind control.

I never said it was, Brainiac has done nothing at a planetary scale, not even scanning, which is a rather simple thing for most high tier telepaths to do, yet he's never done anything close to it. It's pretty open and shut.

-Was it not shown in your respect thread he scanned a galaxy for supes? That is beyond planetary

You literally said this in my team vs tyrant thread

"Maxima has pretty strong TP that basically stomped Milton Fine Brainiac, who was capable of using his telepathy across galaxies, gave Saturn Girl (who's TP is pretty much equal to Martian Manhunter, if not beyond it) problems trying to get inside his mind even when he was unconscious, and was able to easily swap minds with Superman."

Simply put, I've never seen Tyrant deal with telepathy before, so unless there's some feat I don't know about, he loses to that. It's not like he can blitz either, he's a slow but physically powerful character.

Didn't he can control of doomsday which MMH failed to TP?

https://imgur.com/a/psTkd

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Andromeda101

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Dee can simply put her to sleep.

It casually worked on J'onn, so I don't see Jean resisting.

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Dee can simply put her to sleep.

It casually worked on J'onn, so I don't see Jean resisting.

Who is Dee?

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Brainiac murders her

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@kasya_carey: He didn't "scan a galaxy for sups" he was able to pick up on Clark's mind as he entered the solar system. Not even close to the same thing. The context behind it as well (Brainiac and Superman have a unique telepathic connection) means that he can pick up on Clark easier than anyone else as well. I said that he used it across galaxies in reference to the feat where he moves his mind all the way to his homeworld to kill some detractors who were scheming to kill him, not in anything to do with scanning a galaxy or whatever I said.

In fact, you can check the RT and see exactly what I said- which is nothing like you say I said.

Even if it was, you know that range isn't the only factor that accounts for telepathy. You can just say that someone is galaxy level simply because the range is that far. That isn't how it works.

I simply can't take seriously the claim that Brainiac is galaxy level despite not even being able to effect things on a multi city scale, let alone planetary. That claim, based on the full range of evidence I've seen, isn't supported by anything outside of wonky scaling.

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#25  Edited By kasya_carey

@kasya_carey: He didn't "scan a galaxy for sups" he was able to pick up on Clark's mind as he entered the solar system. Not even close to the same thing. The context behind it as well (Brainiac and Superman have a unique telepathic connection) means that he can pick up on Clark easier than anyone else as well. I said that he used it across galaxies in reference to the feat where he moves his mind all the way to his homeworld to kill some detractors who were scheming to kill him, not in anything to do with scanning a galaxy or whatever I said.

-Even if he was able to pick up supes mind that is superior range than a planetary telepath. Emma mindlinked to nate when he was on the other side of the other that planetary tp

In fact, you can check the RT and see exactly what I said- which is nothing like you say I said.

-HUH?

Even if it was, you know that range isn't the only factor that accounts for telepathy. You can just say that someone is galaxy level simply because the range is that far. That isn't how it works.

-You do mind control is not the only factors for TP? Mind control and range cost considerable power. Mind control a city does not equal country level range. so

I simply can't take seriously the claim that Brainiac is galaxy level despite not even being able to effect things on a multi city scale, let alone planetary. That claim, based on the full range of evidence I've seen, isn't supported by anything outside of wonky scaling.

-Well it came out of your mouth on my threat. Brainiac mindcontrolled where MMH failed. I would say he improved by alot.

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#26  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@kasya_carey said:
@professorrespect said:

@kasya_carey: He didn't "scan a galaxy for sups" he was able to pick up on Clark's mind as he entered the solar system. Not even close to the same thing. The context behind it as well (Brainiac and Superman have a unique telepathic connection) means that he can pick up on Clark easier than anyone else as well. I said that he used it across galaxies in reference to the feat where he moves his mind all the way to his homeworld to kill some detractors who were scheming to kill him, not in anything to do with scanning a galaxy or whatever I said.

-Even if he was able to pick up supes mind that is superior range than a planetary telepath. Emma mindlinked to nate when he was on the other side of the other that planetary tp

Yes, Emma does have planetary RT, but this isn't merely based off range, which seems to be how you base it off of primarily. I disagree with that methodology.

In fact, you can check the RT and see exactly what I said- which is nothing like you say I said.

-HUH?

You said that I stated that Brainiac had scanned a galaxy- I said no such thing anywhere.

Even if it was, you know that range isn't the only factor that accounts for telepathy. You can just say that someone is galaxy level simply because the range is that far. That isn't how it works.

-You do mind control is not the only factors for TP? Mind control and range cost considerable power. Mind control a city does not equal country level range. so

Again, I never said anything about mind control being the only factor to how strong a telepath is. You've already made the same assumption earlier on this thread and I've told you this before.

Range doesn't prove anything but range and gives off a basic average for the telepath. It's as simple as that, I'm not really sure why you keep making the same claims that I've already addressed.

I simply can't take seriously the claim that Brainiac is galaxy level despite not even being able to effect things on a multi city scale, let alone planetary. That claim, based on the full range of evidence I've seen, isn't supported by anything outside of wonky scaling.

-Well it came out of your mouth on my threat.

I never said Brainiac was a galaxy level threat on your thread, I said he used his telepathy across galaxies. Not the same thing, and not something easily confused with either.

Brainiac mindcontrolled where MMH failed. I would say he improved by alot.

Brainiac was also occupying the same mind that MMH tried to get in, as well as the fact that Brainiac had to completely sedate and drug Doomsday to some extent so he could control the beast. There's context you completely omitted from there.

As well as this, Manchester Black was able to control Doomsday to some extent, so unless you'd say Manchester is better at telepathy than Manhunter (spoiler- he isn't) it's clear that him failing to get into Doomsday is covered in clear contextual information that wasn't covered or addressed.

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@kasya_carey said:
@professorrespect said:

@kasya_carey: He didn't "scan a galaxy for sups" he was able to pick up on Clark's mind as he entered the solar system. Not even close to the same thing. The context behind it as well (Brainiac and Superman have a unique telepathic connection) means that he can pick up on Clark easier than anyone else as well. I said that he used it across galaxies in reference to the feat where he moves his mind all the way to his homeworld to kill some detractors who were scheming to kill him, not in anything to do with scanning a galaxy or whatever I said.

-Even if he was able to pick up supes mind that is superior range than a planetary telepath. Emma mindlinked to nate when he was on the other side of the other that planetary tp

Yes, Emma does have planetary RT, but this isn't merely based off range, which seems to be how you base it off of primarily. I disagree with that methodology.

In fact, you can check the RT and see exactly what I said- which is nothing like you say I said.

-HUH?

You said that I stated that Brainiac had scanned a galaxy- I said no such thing anywhere.

Even if it was, you know that range isn't the only factor that accounts for telepathy. You can just say that someone is galaxy level simply because the range is that far. That isn't how it works.

-You do mind control is not the only factors for TP? Mind control and range cost considerable power. Mind control a city does not equal country level range. so

Again, I never said anything about mind control being the only factor to how strong a telepath is. You've already made the same assumption earlier on this thread and I've told you this before.

Range doesn't prove anything but range and gives off a basic average for the telepath. It's as simple as that, I'm not really sure why you keep making the same claims that I've already addressed.

I simply can't take seriously the claim that Brainiac is galaxy level despite not even being able to effect things on a multi city scale, let alone planetary. That claim, based on the full range of evidence I've seen, isn't supported by anything outside of wonky scaling.

-Well it came out of your mouth on my threat.

I never said Brainiac was a galaxy level threat on your thread, I said he used his telepathy across galaxies. Not the same thing, and not something easily confused with either.

Brainiac mindcontrolled where MMH failed. I would say he improved by alot.

Brainiac was also occupying the same mind that MMH tried to get in, as well as the fact that Brainiac had to completely sedate and drug Doomsday to some extent so he could control the beast. There's context you completely omitted from there.

As well as this, Manchester Black was able to control Doomsday to some extent, so unless you'd say Manchester is better at telepathy than Manhunter (spoiler- he isn't) it's clear that him failing to get into Doomsday is covered in clear contextual information that wasn't covered or addressed.

As I before Range does equal power. Emma does not have enough power to it.

Didn't know about the doomsday part I was looking at his respect thread

"who was capable of using his telepathy across galaxies, gave Saturn Girl (who's TP is pretty much equal to Martian Manhunter, if not beyond it) problems trying to get inside his mind even when he was unconscious, and was able to easily swap minds with Superman."

You literally said this on my thread. You literally said he was stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths. Did you not?

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@professorrespect said:
@kasya_carey said:
@professorrespect said:

@kasya_carey: He didn't "scan a galaxy for sups" he was able to pick up on Clark's mind as he entered the solar system. Not even close to the same thing. The context behind it as well (Brainiac and Superman have a unique telepathic connection) means that he can pick up on Clark easier than anyone else as well. I said that he used it across galaxies in reference to the feat where he moves his mind all the way to his homeworld to kill some detractors who were scheming to kill him, not in anything to do with scanning a galaxy or whatever I said.

-Even if he was able to pick up supes mind that is superior range than a planetary telepath. Emma mindlinked to nate when he was on the other side of the other that planetary tp

Yes, Emma does have planetary RT, but this isn't merely based off range, which seems to be how you base it off of primarily. I disagree with that methodology.

In fact, you can check the RT and see exactly what I said- which is nothing like you say I said.

-HUH?

You said that I stated that Brainiac had scanned a galaxy- I said no such thing anywhere.

Even if it was, you know that range isn't the only factor that accounts for telepathy. You can just say that someone is galaxy level simply because the range is that far. That isn't how it works.

-You do mind control is not the only factors for TP? Mind control and range cost considerable power. Mind control a city does not equal country level range. so

Again, I never said anything about mind control being the only factor to how strong a telepath is. You've already made the same assumption earlier on this thread and I've told you this before.

Range doesn't prove anything but range and gives off a basic average for the telepath. It's as simple as that, I'm not really sure why you keep making the same claims that I've already addressed.

I simply can't take seriously the claim that Brainiac is galaxy level despite not even being able to effect things on a multi city scale, let alone planetary. That claim, based on the full range of evidence I've seen, isn't supported by anything outside of wonky scaling.

-Well it came out of your mouth on my threat.

I never said Brainiac was a galaxy level threat on your thread, I said he used his telepathy across galaxies. Not the same thing, and not something easily confused with either.

Brainiac mindcontrolled where MMH failed. I would say he improved by alot.

Brainiac was also occupying the same mind that MMH tried to get in, as well as the fact that Brainiac had to completely sedate and drug Doomsday to some extent so he could control the beast. There's context you completely omitted from there.

As well as this, Manchester Black was able to control Doomsday to some extent, so unless you'd say Manchester is better at telepathy than Manhunter (spoiler- he isn't) it's clear that him failing to get into Doomsday is covered in clear contextual information that wasn't covered or addressed.

As I before Range does equal power. Emma does not have enough power to it.

Didn't know about the doomsday part I was looking at his respect thread

"who was capable of using his telepathy across galaxies, gave Saturn Girl (who's TP is pretty much equal to Martian Manhunter, if not beyond it) problems trying to get inside his mind even when he was unconscious, and was able to easily swap minds with Superman."

You literally said this on my thread. You literally said he was stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths. Did you not?

When did Saturn girl > mmh in telepathy?

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#29  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@kasya_carey said:

As I before Range does equal power. Emma does not have enough power to it.

This barely makes any sense, and I've already said that range isn't the only factor to telepathic strength. Already been there.

Didn't know about the doomsday part I was looking at his respect thread

That's why Reddit RT's are terrible most of the time lol

"who was capable of using his telepathy across galaxies, gave Saturn Girl (who's TP is pretty much equal to Martian Manhunter, if not beyond it) problems trying to get inside his mind even when he was unconscious, and was able to easily swap minds with Superman."

You literally said this on my thread. You literally said he was stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths. Did you not?

I said the bit you quoted, I never said he was "stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths", that bit is just you putting words in my mouth there.

What part of that implies that? Using telepathy to move to another galaxy isn't a automatic planetary+, giving Saturn Girl problems is good but also not planetary (unless Doctor Psycho is multi planetary lol) and swapping minds with Superman isn't even close to it.

None of what I said even suggests that I was saying Brainiac was galaxy level in terms of his telepathy. You've just misunderstood my words, which seems to be a running trend here.

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Probably stops at destiny

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@kasya_carey said:

As I before Range does equal power. Emma does not have enough power to it.

This barely makes any sense, and I've already said that range isn't the only factor to telepathic strength. Already been there.

Didn't know about the doomsday part I was looking at his respect thread

That's why Reddit RT's are terrible most of the time lol

"who was capable of using his telepathy across galaxies, gave Saturn Girl (who's TP is pretty much equal to Martian Manhunter, if not beyond it) problems trying to get inside his mind even when he was unconscious, and was able to easily swap minds with Superman."

You literally said this on my thread. You literally said he was stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths. Did you not?

I said the bit you quoted, I never said he was "stronger than planetary and beyond telepaths", that bit is just you putting words in my mouth there.

What part of that implies that? Using telepathy to move to another galaxy isn't a automatic planetary+, giving Saturn Girl problems is good but also not planetary, and swapping minds with Superman isn't even close to it.

None of what I said even suggests that I was saying Brainiac was galaxy level in terms of his telepathy. You've just misunderstood my words.

1. I'm saying range does equal power. I mean like I said before you can't have a city level telepathy scanning a solar system. There are different applications of telepathy

2. true I should have looked more into the fight before posting about him controlling doomsday

3. Having galactic range is definitely beyond planetary. You said he gave Saturn Girl problems from being in his mind. You also said SG was casually equal to MMH. That means he was overpowering a planetary TP while unconscious.

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#32  Edited By ProfessorRespect  Online

@kasya_carey:

1. I'm saying range does equal power. I mean like I said before you can't have a city level telepathy scanning a solar system. There are different applications of telepathy

I agree, but you seem to think that range is all that is required to state that a telepath is at a certain level. I don't find that kind of reasoning to be very solid.

2. true I should have looked more into the fight before posting about him controlling doomsday

3. Having galactic range is definitely beyond planetary.

Again, basing everything off of range alone isn't going to prove anything. It's something that VsBattles would try to pull off to justify their ratings, and misses out intent, statements, consistency, history of wins to losses, etc.

You said he gave Saturn Girl problems from being in his mind. You also said SG was casually equal to MMH.

Yes, but I'm not sure if we can say that a telepath is consistently using their full power to do everything. In certain situations, a lesser telepath will be able to successfully block a far superior telepath, like Quire blocking Emma Frost to the point that she couldn't do anything by surprising her in combat. This doesn't make Quire better than Emma (usually it's the other way around) but shows that when a telepath isn't putting their full power down, they can be overcome and even completely neutralised by a telepath weaker than them.

That means he was overpowering a planetary TP while unconscious.

I wouldn't say that, and interpreting my words in a way to try and spell that out isn't very helpful either.

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geekryan

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Could stop at 12. Definitely stops at 13.

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jc9865

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#34 jc9865  Online

Didn’t maxwell lord mind wipe his existence from the entire planet and beyond?

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kasya_carey

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@kasya_carey:

1. I'm saying range does equal power. I mean like I said before you can't have a city level telepathy scanning a solar system. There are different applications of telepathy

I agree, but you seem to think that range is all that is required to state that a telepath is at a certain level. I don't find that kind of reasoning to be very solid.

-I think range does because it requires alot of [pwer

2. true I should have looked more into the fight before posting about him controlling doomsday

3. Having galactic range is definitely beyond planetary.

Again, basing everything off of range alone isn't going to prove anything. It's something that VsBattles would try to pull off to justify their ratings, and misses out intent, statements, consistency, history of wins to losses, etc.

-I know but vsbattles don't do that with telepathy. They have Xavier at like building level. Telepathy is not AP/DC

You said he gave Saturn Girl problems from being in his mind. You also said SG was casually equal to MMH.

Yes, but I'm not sure if we can say that a telepath is consistently using their full power to do everything. In certain situations, a lesser telepath will be able to successfully block a far superior telepath, like Quire blocking Emma Frost to the point that she couldn't do anything by surprising her in combat.

-Well Quire is an omega level telepath. Saturn girl obviously struggled she nearly passed out. Well he was before that new omega system

This doesn't make Quire better than Emma (usually it's the other way around) but shows that when a telepath isn't putting their full power down, they can be overcome and even completely neutralised by a telepath weaker than them.

-No but it shows his telepathy can overpower and block telepaths on Emma level

That means he was overpowering a planetary TP while unconscious.

I wouldn't say that, and interpreting my words in a way to try and spell that out isn't very helpful either.

-She nearly passed out try into get into his mind. Not to mention when he got jump started he floored Saturn Girl