I am thinking team 2 would win due to Ms.Marvel. Couldn't she speed blitz them with only 1/2 mile distance? If so, maybe you can modify the OP to make it more balanced for team 1 (greater distance, no speedblitz, location, etc).
Whats stoping Firestar from blitzing? Jean Grey pre Phoenix? As in Dark Phoenix feats are credible to use "
What is Firestar's top speed? I haven't seen anything to indicate she could blitz. "
Same here. But team 2 wins because of Invisible Woman "
It's possible but I see Carol's speed ending it vs. IW. Sue's powers are at the speed of thought, same as for Jean and Storm. Any one of them could KO the other in one shot. Carol moves faster than all of them, and at only 1/2 mi starting distance for mach speed movement, I think she could KO team 1 before they can get off an attack.
I don't think she is fast enough to speed blitz. either member of team 1, and I think Storm's flight speed is faster than Angelica's. Also, I doubt she could pull that off if Colossus was aware of her attack. IIRC, she took him completely by surprise, and then Rogue easily caught up to her and blitzed KO'd her.
@charlieboy: That is more a show of her power. Colossus is several hundred pounds, she was able to "burst" herself to get him up there. However, it is a show of her speed.
Storm can life mountains with the power of wind, and has lifted over 300tons when she lifted the x-jet. Not to mention she can manipulate the EM spectrum, Firestar would be useless in this fight, also she is not faster than storm either. Jean could telepathically cloak herself and Storm.invisible woman and firestar would have no way of detecting them. Not to mention Invisible woman can be easily overloaded and taken out of the battle with enough force. This fight goes to team 1.
Storm can life mountains with the power of wind, and has lifted over 300tons when she lifted the x-jet. Not to mention she can manipulate the EM spectrum, Firestar would be useless in this fight, also she is not faster than storm either. Jean could telepathically cloak herself and Storm.invisible woman and firestar would have no way of detecting them. Not to mention Invisible woman can be easily overloaded and taken out of the battle with enough force. This fight goes to team 1. "
Learn a little about Firestar before going around looking stupid. She wouldn't be useless, and yes, she would have a way of detecting them. IW has taken on much more force than just Storm and Jean.
I don’t know to be honest. Why wouldn’t Jean just telepathically shut them down? That’d be as fast as Sue and her shields, cause really it’s only the first one to react. Say Jean takes down Invisible woman first. Then she makes a telekinetic shield and Storm puts up a pressure dome to stop Carol. At the same time Storm calls on the lightning to take down Angelica. Their only main threat is Carol, and to stop her from absorbing any lightning attacks, Jean simply shuts down her mind in the same way she did Sue. That to me seems completely plausible without being bias. The fight of course could go either way but I don’t think it’s as simple as most people make it out to be
@intothetempest: Sue's shields are autoreactive. As soon as she's attacked in any way they'll come on and prevent a tp assault.
1/2 mile is about the limit of Sue's shield manipulation, and she has the slowest reaction time here, so she will not be attacking first. Even if Jean's tp doesn't work on Sue, which I'm not convinced of, her tk will. Sue's the first one gone via BFR. Angelica is more powerful than Storm. Period. Storm has never had to wear power dampeners to avoid destroying the planet, Angelica has. Firestar and Storm probably wouldn't meet however, since Carol shoul ko Ororo with a speed blitz. Team 2 is up 2 to 1. Jean can use tp on Firestar though so she's out. It won't be easy since Jean will also be dealing with Carol at this point, but she should be able to do it. That leaves Carol vs Jean. I see Carol vs Jean as 50/50. If anything Carol should edge out a slight, slight majority, and it's always possible that Jean would have too much trouble with both Ms Marvel and Firestar at the same time earlier in the fight which gives a slight edge as well. Ultimately, team two wins, barely. At least with morals on. Morals off...Carol blitz kills Storm. Then Jeanie wastes Carol.
@Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue. I'll give you that, but multiple references have been made to the danger of Angelica's power level. Emma Frost, SHIELD files, the UN and Hank Pym all talked about her power being among the highest ever encountered. All of them had previously encountered Storm.
"@Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue. I'll give you that, but multiple references have been made to the danger of Angelica's power level. Emma Frost, SHIELD files, the UN and Hank Pym all talked about her power being among the highest ever encountered. All of them had previously encountered Storm. "
Keep in mind that Emma has said that to several other mutants....
" @Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue.
Sue has to react to form her shields. And I've seen her do things that put her reaction time at an extremely high level.
How is her TK going to pick up Sue's shield? It has no real "structure".
" @Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue.
Sue has to react to form her shields. And I've seen her do things that put her reaction time at an extremely high level.
How is her TK going to pick up Sue's shield? It has no real "structure". "
Sue has been seen many times to have shields up before she had time to react. Attacks that came from invisible opponents, came from behind her, and just came too fast for her to actively react to. This is common among people with "passive" powers. And before you jump on "passive" powers, that has nothing to do with being able to use it offensively or not, it's simply a classification for powers that are primarily defensive, like force fields or phasing. Jean can just pick up whatever Sue's shields are sitting on...ground, pavement, whatever, or use her tk to wrap the shield in debris and move her that way. .
@Fire Star said:
" @bag_o_x_men said:
"@Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue. I'll give you that, but multiple references have been made to the danger of Angelica's power level. Emma Frost, SHIELD files, the UN and Hank Pym all talked about her power being among the highest ever encountered. All of them had previously encountered Storm. "
Keep in mind that Emma has said that to several other mutants.... "
This is true. IIRC all of them have subsequently been listed as omega or potential omega, however, so even the weakest of them should at worst be equal to Storm, who is listed as a potential omega herself.
" @Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue.
Sue has to react to form her shields. And I've seen her do things that put her reaction time at an extremely high level.
How is her TK going to pick up Sue's shield? It has no real "structure". "
Sue has been seen many times to have shields up before she had time to react. Attacks that came from invisible opponents, came from behind her, and just came too fast for her to actively react to. This is common among people with "passive" powers. And before you jump on "passive" powers, that has nothing to do with being able to use it offensively or not, it's simply a classification for powers that are primarily defensive, like force fields or phasing. Jean can just pick up whatever Sue's shields are sitting on...ground, pavement, whatever, or use her tk to wrap the shield in debris and move her that way. .
And other times she's put her shield up just seconds before the attack hit.
I wasn't going to jump on anything......
Sue can levitate/fly. And even if Jean does try that wrap move all Sue would have to do it make her shield larger.
" @Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue.
Sue has to react to form her shields. And I've seen her do things that put her reaction time at an extremely high level.
How is her TK going to pick up Sue's shield? It has no real "structure". "
Sue has been seen many times to have shields up before she had time to react. Attacks that came from invisible opponents, came from behind her, and just came too fast for her to actively react to. This is common among people with "passive" powers. And before you jump on "passive" powers, that has nothing to do with being able to use it offensively or not, it's simply a classification for powers that are primarily defensive, like force fields or phasing. Jean can just pick up whatever Sue's shields are sitting on...ground, pavement, whatever, or use her tk to wrap the shield in debris and move her that way. .
And other times she's put her shield up just seconds before the attack hit.
I wasn't going to jump on anything......
Sue can levitate/fly. And even if Jean does try that wrap move all Sue would have to do it make her shield larger. "
#1 You are correct, but she doesn't have to consciously put them up when she's in danger. For everything not involving reactive defensive shields Sue has never done anything that implies anything beyond human reaction time. #2 Cool. I was just preemptively explaining myself to head off any arguments from you or anyone else. I figured even if you didn't comment on the passive comment, someone would immediately say "but she uses them offensively all the time". Sue can not levitate/fly. She clearly states in FF Disassembled that she uses an "invisible stilt" when she appears to levitate. She needs something to push off from. @charlieboy said:
" jean's tk does not work on sue's shields. sue's force field completely blocks jean's tk. "
But like I said, she can have the ground underneath her uprooted, or be covered in telekinetikally thrown debris, wrapped up, and moved that way.
" @bag_o_x_men: if sue does not want the field to budge it won't. jean has never been able to do much to sue in their encounters. "
Sue's fields have been moved before. Like I said, if she doesn't have something to push against directly, she has no way to control whether it moves or not. She's been worried about just tipping over before when she got her "stilt" too high.
" @Son Of Storm: Sue's reaction time is no where near superhuman. It appears so, bacause of her autoreactive shields. Jean's tk doesn't work through the shields, but does work to pick up and throw Sue shields and all. You are correct. It is a control issue.
Sue has to react to form her shields. And I've seen her do things that put her reaction time at an extremely high level.
How is her TK going to pick up Sue's shield? It has no real "structure". "
Sue has been seen many times to have shields up before she had time to react. Attacks that came from invisible opponents, came from behind her, and just came too fast for her to actively react to. This is common among people with "passive" powers. And before you jump on "passive" powers, that has nothing to do with being able to use it offensively or not, it's simply a classification for powers that are primarily defensive, like force fields or phasing. Jean can just pick up whatever Sue's shields are sitting on...ground, pavement, whatever, or use her tk to wrap the shield in debris and move her that way. .
And other times she's put her shield up just seconds before the attack hit.
I wasn't going to jump on anything......
Sue can levitate/fly. And even if Jean does try that wrap move all Sue would have to do it make her shield larger. "
#1 You are correct, but she doesn't have to consciously put them up when she's in danger. For everything not involving reactive defensive shields Sue has never done anything that implies anything beyond human reaction time. #2 Cool. I was just preemptively explaining myself to head off any arguments from you or anyone else. I figured even if you didn't comment on the passive comment, someone would immediately say "but she uses them offensively all the time". Sue can not levitate/fly. She clearly states in FF Disassembled that she uses an "invisible stilt" when she appears to levitate. She needs something to push off from.
I never said she had beyond human reaction time. She's like Storm. Close but not exactly there. :)
Team 1 win this jean is capable of mental boosts she can shut fire star down or even turn her, sues shields will be useless if she trys to contain storm, shel break out with her energy weakening sue, jean is also able to mentally go invisible sue is not tp neither is ms marvel, storm feels the the air, she has been shown to rapidly freeze her targets.
@Son Of Storm: Cool. Then yes I agree. She and Storm both have high human level reaction time, and some powers that are probably even faster because they are thought based. Sue is always drawn as though there's nothing more than an invisible platform that appears to be free floating, even in the issue I quoted her from. But she said herself, that she makes a "stilt" that harder to control the bigger or taller it is. I believe it was in answer to a smart a$$ comment from Johnny about outflying her, and she specified that she doesn't fly. @charlieboy said:
" @bag_o_x_men: if you say so but jean has never done it. "
" @marvellover1: still firestar has resisted powerful telepaths before so it is not like telepathy is the way to go with firestar. "
True but would storm be a able to put fire star out of business with the temperature drop and her winds? Don't forget jeans tp boost will increase the power of their abilities and even their defense
I don't. I read the TPB. It was Fantastic Four Disassembled. The first part was the Wizard introducing a "new" Fearsome Four consisting of himself Salamandra, Hydroman, and Trapster. The second part, was where she said it. New York was being torn from Earth by aliens and in order to get to their ship, Sue was "flying" herself and Ben and that's when the conversation happened. Based on the first appearance of Salamandra, I'd guess that the issue would be FF 519. Maybe 518 or 520 though.
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