Both teams at their most powerful and bloodlusted
Jean Grey & Nate Grey vs Scarlet Witch & Wiccan
@cruelrain: no doubt. Nate is not stronger than Dark Phoenix he's about as powerful per readings and canon as Green Phoenix. Jean at her most powerful can tap the Phoenix without becoming the Phoenix and can amp and stabilize other psi powers. Now if we consider Wanda at her most powerful HOM Wanda then we have to consider Jean at her most powerful being White Phoenix as a natural progression of her power, because Wanda was using outside power to be HOM levels, and Phoenix was immune to her warps and the Chaoswave.
Life-Seed Nate creates new planes/realities while SW and Wiccan only warps them(as far as I know). Plz advise??.. Also, LS Nate defeated a full/all personality Legion,--> who had erased Elder gods with but a thought.
Anyway, I remember Cable fighting SW to a standstill during Contest of Champions, with Cable losing only because he realized the Contest was a trick.
Im open for thoughts....
Wanda and Billy take this. TP isn't going to take down Wanda because as Emma said she could blink them out of existence so as soon as Wanda realizes it which she will rather quickly it's going to be a problem. And the reason why Phoenix wasn't affected was because it was outside of the multiverse while Wanda was warping even then Phoenix still felt it. The problem is that while shaman nate and Phoenix have battle feats, Scarlet and Demiurge do not. No one dared to challenge Wanda aside from Clint, who she warped after resurrecting and warping his attack and Demiurge transcended into the multiverse and began warping from there
@emmafrostxmen: do remember that it was an off guard attack similar to what Wanda did to Emma before that lol. But again this is about House of M Wanda the same Wanda that Emma stayed as far away from as possible in that story but this isn't about Emma. As I said TP isn't going to take Wanda out nor will it to Demiurge
@cruelrain: right like I don't even know why he brought up a version of Wanda that was depowered and taken of guard when at her peak, like the OP said, Emma did her best to stay away from Wanda lol. Also, Demiurge and Wanda at her peak are multiversal warpers with what I would assume is above TP attacks like most multiversal characters are at that level.
@stormfan101: the Chaoswave was traveling outside of the multiverse because it was also in the Beyond, that's were Meggan halted it. When Psylocke and Rachel were pulled there all of Betsy's alternate selves were there, most of whom would have been taken out by the wave crashing their realities and they were all safe and sound in the WHR. Before being pulled in both of them were under the spell of Wanda it was broken immediately in the WHR. The Phoenix also casually undid no more mutants about 7 times.
@lordofallhumans: the White hot room was outside of the multiverse as well. Wanda and Hope officially undid her spell in AvX piggy backing off of Dr. Strange saying tampering with her spell could rearrange all the realities her spell affected. Now I do know that Meggan did halt the wave long enough for captain Britain, Psylocke, and Rachel to see it but the Phoenix still felt the push from the wave which is part of why she was coming to earth.
@stormfan101: So is the Beyond and it was touched. So being outside the multiverse is not requisite. Hope being born was the first instance of the Phoenix breaking it. The 5 lights are five more times plus the mysterious mutant baby. The seventh (eighth because of the baby) time was Hope and it was what the Phoenix came to do. All Hope did was let it go and it went and undid the spell.
@lordofallhumans: That's true but hope being born or those mutants wasn't a sign of the Phoenix doing anything. Unless they're was something I missed the only thing the Phoenix involved itself in was trying to create more mutants when she got there. Hope and those other mutants were signs that part of her spell was wearing off. I'm open to scans or direction if it was said that the Phoenix did have direct influence on them still showing up. They needed each other to undo the spell and get rid of the Phoenix
@stormfan101: yes it was. Unit told the story of how what Wanda did was done before on an alien planet. The Phoenix created a messiah on that planet and activated 5 lights to undo it. The Phoenix is directly responsible for Hope's creation and even told her. It was directly responsible for the 6 mutants active xgenes after her birth because there is precedent due to Units story. The Phoenix came specifically in opposition to no more mutants.
@stormfan101: when did she show that? Are you one of those people that think every manifestation of the Phoenix is the same? We're talking about WCP. Phoenix itself says nobody that has its power has as much as Jean and she as WCP had access to the entirety of its multiversal form.
@lordofallhumans: are you one of those people that assume something before getting clarification on something YOU don't understand? Don't question me like I don't know what I'm talking about. I know Jean is the strongest host and I also know that Wanda wasn't at house of M levels. It was already stated that her hex's were effective attacks. Phoenix says that and feats prove otherwise and while she's right about no one having HER power because she's all the psi energy that exists and will exist, Wanda is the nexus being (like Phoenix) and a focal point for all magical energy in the 616 universe which is another reason she's so powerful.
@stormfan101: I ask you a yes or no question. Either answer yes or no. You did neither. Her hexes lost effectiveness as the number of the Phoenix 5 decreased. Her first encounter was with Namor and she was ko'd while he wasn't so even with one fifth it took her all. This is Jean. The Phoenix 5 barely touch her as Dark Phoenix let alone WCP.
@lordofallhumans: you ASSUMED as i said. "Are you one of those people.." was the beginning of your assumption but anyway I did answer. Her hex's didn't begin to lose effectiveness it just wasn't as easy as she thought which is why when she came back to fight DP Cyclops Iron man states her hex's are the only thing that's hurting him and Hope channeled that into her version of the ironfist
@killianduclark: LMAOO tf you mean no noteworthy feats, he literally broke reality, erased a dimensional parasite while simultaneously sending back multiversal beings back to their dimensions while at the same time holding all of reality literally in his hands AS COMIC PANELS. he has plot manipulation, and supposedly lives in the past, present and future. And that ain’t even all his feats. Like i said, demiurge Wiccan probs solo.
@j2111: provide a scan of this. His best feat is transforming into the demiurge and vaping Mother who is like Manhattan level by feats. Then we have unquantifiable feat of perceiving all of reality. That's it, everyone here at their peak can that and so much more.
In conclusion Billy is fodder
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