R1- I think this might go to Storm and Exodus if Exodus faces Magneto and Storm takes advantage of the setting to give her a counter to Vulcan and Bobby. I can only see Jean and Bobby winning if Bobby doesn’t job and if Jeancan manage to bypass both Exodus’s and Magneto’s defenses, which is a lot to ask of her.
R2- This is 33.333333333333% for all sides.
Magneto can probably amp Vulcan enough for him to solo.
Exodus can probably multitask enough to give Storm time to start plunging the battlefield in a hurricane.
Bobby can flash freeze everyone with Jean amping him.
R3- Realistically, there is no universe where Bobby loses, aside from Exodus or Jean one-shotting him psychically. Between Exodus and Jean, unless we really hone in on her high ends, Exodus most likely wins if Bobby is taken out.
R3- Realistically, there is no universe where Bobby loses, aside from Exodus or Jean one-shotting him psychically. Between Exodus and Jean, unless we really hone in on her high ends, Exodus most likely wins if Bobby is taken out.
Magneto should be the biggest contender here in my opinion. He has the best psychic defenses of anyone so TP is not a problem unless Jean gets free reign to really go after his mind which is unlikely. He has the offense and defense to deal with anyone as well as internal hax unless we are going to focus specifically on the current era of Magneto.
When it comes to Exodus vs Jean we should also consider that his better showings are amped. Bloodties and X-Men Legacy are not his normal power levels and I think his multitasking from those instances should also be considered not his normal. I personally feel higher power levels allow him to multi task better because he has more to work with. Looking at his other multitasking he was controlling soldiers from a long distance while fighting Magneto and he lost. Teenage Jean fought a mutant growth hormone amped version of the Magneto Exodus lost to and Magneto himself said they might both die. He is certainly still a better multi tasker but I think his normal power levels are well within what Jean is capable of handling. Though it will still push her to her limits her recent showings and portrayal make me side with her for a small edge.
But you are right if Iceman is not targeted with telepathy right away he could run away with this match
@onsipin: 1) “Magneto should be the biggest contender here in my opinion”
For the in-character rounds, perhaps. But Exodus has been compared to Magneto in the past and has comparable feats to him. Iceman is generally not gonna be seriously hurt unless Magneto manages to instill so much pain that Bobby is unable to utilize concentrate.
Have not seen this tested either in favor or against Bobby, so I can’t make a serious statement that Magneto couldn’t beat Bobby. Looking at Bobby’s powerset on paper should say Magneto won’t do anything that would actually affect Bobby significantly while he is next to an entire ocean of water.
Storm and Vulcan (in Round 3) just aren’t taking Magneto one-on-one, but they aren’t alone. So, Magneto does not have the benefit to focus on one person, even with his multitasking feats.
Magneto does have a good chance to take Jean out, but it really relies on him not being distracted with the other opponents. This is especially apparent in round 3.
2) “He has the offense and defense to deal with anyone as well as internal hax unless we are going to focus specifically on the current era of Magneto”
Anyone, yes. But it’s an uphill battle the more opponents he has to face. Determining Magneto as having among the best odds of winning is not inaccurate, but it also hinges on the idea that these characters don’t recognize how big of a threat Magneto is and don’t do something about it as quickly as possible.
3) “When it comes to Exodus vs Jean we should also consider that his better showings are amped. Bloodties and X-Men Legacy are not his normal power levels and I think his multitasking from those instances should also be considered not his normal.”
I agree Bloodties is a major outlier, but Legacy is not that big of a feat. It’s a high end, but we have seen Exodus operate on that level while battling Xavier while blocking Magneto and fighting the Eternals. Barring him having a loss of faith, it is a bit of a low-ball to call Legacy an abnormal level of power when Exodus has had comparable levels.
Unless we go with Jean’s high ends, we would have to lean heavily on Jean’s tp to have an argument that Exodus would lose to her. And that scenario is a coin flip, since she equally uses both of her powers.
4) “Teenage Jean fought a mutant growth hormone amped version of the Magneto Exodus lost to and Magneto himself said they might both die”
To be fair, we don’t have an accurate measure of how much energy Teen Jean had absorbed when she used that form in that moment. And her range is great enough to go from a localized area to around the planet.
And nothing suggests Jean’s psi form is so intricate that she needs to concentrate to use it. I mean, if she is doing it successfully on her first try to go toe-to-toe with Gladiator, then it’s safe to presume Teen Jean fighting Magneto vs Exodus fighting Magneto were not the same situations.
For the in-character rounds, perhaps. But Exodus has been compared to Magneto in the past and has comparable feats to him. Iceman is generally not gonna be seriously hurt unless Magneto manages to instill so much pain that Bobby is unable to utilize concentrate.
Have not seen this tested either in favor or against Bobby, so I can’t make a serious statement that Magneto couldn’t beat Bobby. Looking at Bobby’s powerset on paper should say Magneto won’t do anything that would actually affect Bobby significantly while he is next to an entire ocean of water.
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Polaris could to this to Iceman. Granted he was not in ice form it is clear Magneto can affect Iceman as there are trace minerals in it
Anyone, yes. But it’s an uphill battle the more opponents he has to face. Determining Magneto as having among the best odds of winning is not inaccurate, but it also hinges on the idea that these characters don’t recognize how big of a threat Magneto is and don’t do something about it as quickly as possible.
If the argument is that the rest of the field will target Magneto first I will agree to this.
I agree Bloodties is a major outlier, but Legacy is not that big of a feat. It’s a high end, but we have seen Exodus operate on that level while battling Xavier while blocking Magneto and fighting the Eternals. Barring him having a loss of faith, it is a bit of a low-ball to call Legacy an abnormal level of power when Exodus has had comparable levels.
Unless we go with Jean’s high ends, we would have to lean heavily on Jean’s tp to have an argument that Exodus would lose to her. And that scenario is a coin flip, since she equally uses both of her powers.
It took me a while to find this because I only saw it in passing but Koays said this of Exodus on the Tier list blog post
1- Exodus as stated has the problem of his faith amp. We try our best not to factor in any outside power sources or other things that would change from situation to situation.
In the Rachel example for instance he states that his powers are based in belief and that he has never believed in something more then his cause at that moment. That would mean that, even though he's shown incredible multitasking in the past his performance against her there is outside his usual levels.
Similarly his 2 confrontations with Xavier.
During their first meeting in Bloodties Exodus is able to withstand a full power psibolt from Xavier while maintaining his mindcontrol over Jean Grey and several others as well as crushing a city with his forcefield.
During their next meeting in X-Men Legacy, he was in possession of all of Xavier's memories and was using them against him. Xavier would eventually overpower him and threaten to turn his powers off completely if he continued the battle.
Factoring that in we had to consider Legacy and Messiah complex to be as close to normal for him as possible since there's no statements or outliers in either appearance that would make you question his abilities.
Sinister however doesn't have anything to question. While there's no doubt that Exodus is stronger then him in raw power, Sinister himself scales directly to the raw power of Emma Frost (via a stalemate against Emma Frost) who isn't exactly weak. The fact that Sinister has given Emma trouble on multiple occasions and yet Exodus himself admits that he's unable to use his TK while battling her (something he was even able to do against Xavier under the same writer) it points to the fact that Sinister is likely more skilled then Exodus. A point further proven by the fact that Exodus himself considers Sinister one of the most skilled telepaths on the planet.
Long story short, Sinister generally comes across as more skilled in mental manipulation and where his power levels are pretty consistent Exodus has massive outliers and other performances marred by his own admitted amp.
I would also add that Magneto had no powers while Exodus was fighting Xavier and Exodus was not blocking anything as anything. He only used his powers to blast away a normal human being.
The feats against the Eternals is great but the same writer had Jean hold apart the miniature sun heart of a Celestial while blocking its psychic pressure and tanking its direct psychic blasts and breaking into its mind. Exodus is still better at multitasking without a doubt but Jean is not so outclassed that she cannot keep up.
Taking these into account I do not think his normal levels would allow him a majority over Jean as she is today. It is a very tight match I am certain of that but her TP is just so powerful now that I think it she can beat him with it before he can batter through her force fields. If she tries to directly fight him in a clash of telekinesis she will always lose but I myself believe she favors telepathy more than telekinesis when it can apply and will focus on that aspect of her powers to defeat him knowing he is an omega level telekinetic. She knows how powerful his telekinesis is as seen in Judgment Day where she specifically calls him in to take out the Hex instead of attempting it herself. I doubt she will try to outmuscle him in that department.
To be fair, we don’t have an accurate measure of how much energy Teen Jean had absorbed when she used that form in that moment. And her range is great enough to go from a localized area to around the planet.
And nothing suggests Jean’s psi form is so intricate that she needs to concentrate to use it. I mean, if she is doing it successfully on her first try to go toe-to-toe with Gladiator, then it’s safe to presume Teen Jean fighting Magneto vs Exodus fighting Magneto were not the same situations.
I dont think it is right to assume she is absorbing from more than her immediate vicinity unless stated otherwise and I was not bringing this as a case for multitasking just showing their respective fights against Magneto. Exodus was multitasking but this is also a significantly weaker Magneto that he fought because Magneto in that era is just very weak. Teen Jean on the other hand fought a Magneto that was amped with Mutant Growth Hormone. This looks to me that Exodus is not above what current Jean can handle when giving her everything
In-character the weakest team is team 1. Jean Grey morals is too tight and Iceman is very inconsistent jobber. Vulcan is also inconsistent. Exodus and Storm might win most times.
Bloodlust is hard for team 2 because Storm has no reliable defenses while everyone else does. It is a toss up for Jean Grey and Iceman vs Magneto and Vulcan
Round 3 is hard to imagine a free for all so I imagine they pair off. Storm and Magneto have a long rivalry so they can fight each other and Magneto might win majority. Iceman and Vulcan can fight each other beacuse they are contrasting fire and ice and Iceman can win majority. Jean Grey and Exodus can fight each other because they are both psychic and Jean Grey can win majority. Magneto vs Iceman vs Jean Grey Magneto can win majority unless Iceman and Jean Grey gang up on him
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