Jean and Rachel run the Telepathy gauntlet

The Mother Daughter Combo

The Rules

1. Telepathy Only
2. Standard versions of the ladies
3. Morals Off

The Gauntlet

1. Pre 52 Aquaman and Mera
2. Saturn Girl and Manchester Black
3. Gorilla Grodd and Dubbilex
4. Emma Frost and Psylocke
5. Stryfe and Moondragon
6. Despero
7. Martian Manhunter
8. Thanos
9. Composite Cable (so basically Savior Cable)
10. X-man

Battlefield

The Astral Plane

@warlockmage Is this Jean without the Phoenix?

Stops at either MMH or Thanos.

So, "standard" Jean is kind of Phoenix Jean at this point...

Jean is without the Phoenix... as is her current version

Ok! I figured, just wanted to make sure.

They stop at Thanos.

Stops at MMH, maybe Cable.

Stop at Thanos

They might stop at Thanos. Does Jean still have the Phoenix rapture hax that ignore any kind of defense to to?

probably stops at moondragon

Maybe stop at rd 5.

They stop at Thanos.

@cosmic_reign: I don't think they would stop at 5. Jean has better feats than Stryfe, and while Moondragon could be a problem, Rachel is comfortably on her level.

Probably stop at Thanos.

You could be right!!

I vaguely remember Stryfe having the upper hand vs both Jean and Cyclops in one story....dont quite remember context tho. Rd 5 could be difficult.

Not too familiar with DC rds. But I can agree they should definitely stop at Thanos.

@cosmic_reign: yeah, that was in the early 90s, before operation Zero tolerance. After operation Zero tolerance, Jean confessed that she had been holding back her powers all the time because she was scared and the other Xmen were scared she would become Phoenix, so she was suppressing her powers.

She and Scott got into an argument because she said she wasn't going to hold herself back, and stated performing feats like scanning the planet easily and ripping apocalypse apart. By Revolution, she was growing so strong that her son Cable almost killed her for fear of Phoenix (she even had some of psylockes abilities added to her own), and by new Xmen her power expanded into a Phoenix manifestation, before she died on the sun and became a Phoenix avatar.

The more recent versions of Jean have more impressive feats than easy 90s Jean, and Stryfe

@del_torro:

Thnx for the clarification.

But per OP, does Jean have powerful enough TP to beat Stryfe without "awakening" the PF?

Rachel vs Moondragon would be interesting tho...

@cosmic_reign: Yes, her telepathy feats outclassed anything he's done. If we compare feat by feat, she's more impressive.

She's easily read the minds of the planet on different occasions

Subconsciously creates psychic projections around the world and on the moon

Beaten/outclassed planetary level Telepaths like Emma frost (even when she was amped by the Phoenix, Jean could knock her down with her psi-blasts), and Gamemaster (an omnipath who is connected to everyone on the planet, he had to run away).

Her Psychic projections have caused other omega level Telepaths likes Rachel and Cable to nosebleed or be knocked, by by coming in contact or sensing them.

She's gotten past psi defenses and immunity of Juggernaut, Hulk, magneto, Cypher, the Neo and government psi blocking technology (heck she's scanned the planet one when there was psychic chaff blocking the astral plane, this was done government agents to dampen the powers of a psychic being they captured).

She's beaten an army of demons with telepathy, turned of people's powers, control and used their power, ampliplified their powers, mind wiped people, put crowds to sleep, controlled 100s of panicked people to prevent stampedes, suspended and froze the minds of weapon 13 (has an Infectious consciousness, any human or animal he touches becomes him, and he had touched 100s at this point, not to mention that his original body had millions of tiny mechanical brains too).

If we compare them feat by feat, she takes it.

Can't really find much on moondragon, I know she beat Xavier (but she had the mindgem at that time), I know she mind controlled Thor and controlled important figures on an alien planet to take over. Without knowing more about her, I can't compare the two well.

stops at 5 because of stryfe but he should be further down the list.

@comic_book_fan: hmm, how does stryfe beat Jean?

My initial thought as well. But obviously debatable.

@del_torro:

Nice....im familiar with most of these feats, which IMO can be duplicated by Stryfe. Maybe not.

@cosmic_reign: should we compare feats? I could list feats or statements for Jean, and you could state scenarios where he replicated or surpassed those feats.

Ahh...No thnx on comparing feats. I'm fairly familiar with both and I'm sure Jean has enough on-panel feats to support your stance.

I just think there may be room for debate here if we are to consider Stryfe as an alternate reality clone/half-brother of 295 Nate(X-man), who is/was said to rival the PF in TP/TK. And like Xman/unlike Cable, Stryfe doesn't need to use/waste any TK to keep a virus in check, which should technically make him more powerful than Cable. But yeah, like X-man, Stryfe hasn't really been omega level impressive considering his capabilities. IMO

I think there can be different scenarios for rd 5...but I'm also content for them to pass this rd as well.

@kasya_carey: That is a good question in regards to her raptor hax. Unfortunately, we don’t know since it was a Revolution era move. Needless to say, I can’t see why she would forget an attack logically. Narratively, writersprobably are unaware of the move.

Interestingly, Teen Jean has manifested a psychic raptor in her Generations solo, though it could partially be attributed to psychic energy drained by Phoenix Jean.

Eh, tangents aside, I think the hax shouldn’t be ignored, but that’s just me.

As for what I believe, I think Cable and Nate Grey should be below Thanos. Yes, the two are probably more powerful psychics, but they lack the skill to compete with telepaths like Xavier. Considering Thanos has fought the likes of Galactus psychically, I’ve no doubt that Thanos would take them down.

So, I feel Jean would most likely stalemate barely or most likely lose to Thanos. I’m not sure if Thanos telepathic feats, but knowing Galactus to be a planetary level threat, I’m quite sure that Jean would have a lot of trouble. Won’t be an easy fight for either.

@cosmic_reign: Oh yeah, if we go by scaling him to Nate grey and Savior Cable, then yeah, I'd put him above Jean.

@PyroFN:yeah, I don't think Jean has used her psionic raptor since Revolution/new Xmen. Though (not sure if this counts) when ghost Jean possessed teen Jean, she manifested a raptor

@del_torro: I personally assume it is because she is one with the Phoenix, or in a more literal sense, a piece of the Phoenix separated after the Phoenix went after Teen Jean. After all, Teen Jean still ends up with the tiny Firebird on her forehead in issue 10 and 11 from Emma’s sliver of the Phoenix, similar to the one that was on her when Jean possessed her at Emma’s apartment near the end of Issue 7.

Jean Feats

Jean is capable of manifesting it without the Phoenixes power. The connection is always there, but that doesn't mean she is tapping into it. As shown here with a teen Jean who has never even met Scott or the Phoenix.

https://i.imgur.com/RsOGhE7_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

https://i.imgur.com/bI91kRQ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

https://i.imgur.com/ExCJZzr_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=high

As it is explained later on in the revolution era when Jean lost her telekinesis, the Phoenix raptor is a mere expression of her power.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30174/3056037-2694192-p_jea1.jpg

Jean has consistently throughout her history breached the natural defenses of those who have kept the likes of Professor Xavier, the one most known as the most powerful telepath in the world, out by their means.

Didn’t even a omnipath noticed Jean as a threat?

Maybe Despero. Idk why Manhunter is above him though.

7/8

Why are Cable and Nate grey above Thanos.

Anyways, I think they stop at despero now.

Anybody want to explain ay Cable is above thanos

Stops at Thanos

Stops at Thanos. -_-

@del_torro: i will take you up on the comparing feats and statements

@del_torro: because they are more powerful telepaths

Could stop at 5 but i can't see them getting past 6.

@del_torro: That’s what I said a year ago! Great minds, great minds.

Out of order. They stop at Despero.

This Also Despero and MMH should be above Thanos.

@comic_book_fan: cool, I'll post feats later

Okay, Jean grey feats that I don't think Stryfe has the feats to match. Sorry about the numbering, it was a long list and I deleted some. Ignore the ones I didn't put images for

Scans the planet to find Xavier despite psychic static blocking her

Gallery

Here she scans the planet to find a woman groot once met, using a memory groot shares with the woman

Gallery

Here she hears all the pain/anger in the world

Here she Absorbs psychic energy from the citizens of a planet

Gallery

Here she gathers psychic energy from the two races of a planet. Two cities are shown to have had energy gathered from, so I'm limiting the feat to saying she gathered from two cities (this Jean has lost most of her telepathy and did not have the Phoenix, the last two scans show this)

Gallery

6)here she Drains the Supreme intelligence who has 10 billion individual minds and is a high level Telepath

Gallery

7)Subconsciously projecting manifestations and constructs of her memories around the world and on the moon (her constructs take out reams of Xmen and Telepaths like Psylocke Rachel and cable)

8)channeling the pain of people around the world into Lifeseed Nate greys mind (causing him to lose control over his horsemen and bringing him to his knees)

Gallery

11 sending a message to Xmen around the world

12) sending a message to Nate grey at the north pole from Westchester

14) mind***ing an army of telepathy resistant demons, while aping her team and absorbing their fatigue

15) mind wiping people in a city to forget that Rogue had a rampage

16)Freezing a part of Boston

17) Draining a hive of poisons (they had low level psionic abilities), on earth from orbit

20 Resisting Onslaught trying to get into her mind.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378174/6837577-3836874342-2hOuQnzDwxFurciiyq8Rcck4TcuvlPPsiRR0NB1LrslKAAt-liAAfzR8u3Ty2eoNg75zfeh-vFe_rA%3Ds1600

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378174/6837578-8981910171-XGtUEemwGe3Ma-THEuttspUcQmkYnfLQ_nceO6KoM5ZGVmWytmoyKAa_j4UD2ykFlCN0MnQBlzjEhw%3Ds1600

24)Kicking Sinister out of her mind, while depowered

27)her Psi blast is strong enough to knock down a Phoenix host/knock back onslaught

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378174/6824926-6633773-capture.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11137/111378174/6901104-9509942415-16348.jpg

29) controlling hundreds of civilians in a club to evacuate

Gallery

30) merging the minds of the Poland army and polish mutant refugees

Gallery

@del_torro: You forgot the time Jean saw something with her eyes.

Jean would get an amp to her TP with Rachel even being there, so they stop at Thanos. Thanos has no sold his molecules being warped across dimensions so I doubt non-Phoenix mom and daughter do much here.

Right! LMMFAO

Bump

@comic_book_fan: Hi, just wanted you to know that I've posted the feats