Jean & Rachel Grey vs invisible Woman & Wanda

Round 1 - No telepathy for the Greys, no direct reality warping for Wanda (as in can't reality warp at Jean & Rachel), no internal attacks for anyone

Round 2 - Greys get their TK & TP but no pink mode for Jean. No internal attacks for anyone

Round 3 - No restrictions, anything goes

Morals off for all rounds

Location: Any random field. Start 30ft apart

R1: Sue & Wanda.

R2 & R3: Greys Stomps

1 - Wanda is not a reality warper. That was a power granted to her by the Life Force during 2004-2010.

I think Wanda and IW would win in round 1. Even tho Jean has absolute telekinetic, she is dealing with a being who can bend fate itself and choose whether an attack would it or not. A Being who can bend luck and time itself. Team one wins due to Wanda mostly.

Jean and Rachel win easily in the second round... jean would prepare a snack while Rachel mind controls them and make them fight each other.

Again team 2 easily.. telepathy >>> any ability. In order to use an ability whatever that ability might be, the user needs to think and that entire concept is a subject to telepath. The user's own mind would be his greatest nightmare.

R1: Team 2, Invisible Woman shields are more powerful than their tk and Wanda has magic to counter it

R2: Grey due tp

R3: could go either way since they can one shot each other

1 - Wanda is not a reality warper. That was a power granted to her by the Life Force during 2004-2010. She is a probability manipulator, people confuse this power to reality warping.

I think Wanda and IW would win in round 1. Even tho Jean has absolute telekinetic, she is dealing with a being who can bend fate itself and choose whether an attack would it or not. A Being who can bend luck and time itself. Team one wins due to Wanda mostly.

Jean and Rachel win easily in the second round... jean would prepare a snack while Rachel mind controls them and make them fight each other.

Again team 2 easily.. telepathy >>> any ability. In order to use an ability whatever that ability might be, the user needs to think and that entire concept is a subject to telepath. The user's own mind would be his greatest nightmare.

@princess_fiona:

I guess Marvel and their writers are confused since recently she was called one in Star #2 and she's tagged as one in all their official pages...

@marvelfan1992: tag me pls

R1 : Sue and Wanda can solo this round on their own TBH

R2 : Could go either way

R3 : Wanda Stomps

Yea....Sue and Wanda aren't winning anything but R1. And that's a big MAYBE.

@cruelrain: why don't they just state this in the comics😭?? They don't, thanksfor providing this btw, appreciate it..

the greatest feat she has done between the time she was possessed that she stated she can accomplish again was saying No More Mutants and she also stated that she needs vast amount of energy and time to cast that spell..

Where did u find this statement btw? I dont read interviews or statements Marvel makes outside the comics.

@olorun:you were part of the tags. Thoughts on this?

@cruelrain who the hell is Star

@princess_fiona i mean, wanda kinda reality warped in the Jean Grey solo comic. She made people into bricks and whatever. Seems like reality warping to me, unless it was some ugly artist interpretation of her teleporting them away

Wanda and Sue win all three rounds. Wanda would turn the Grey's telepathy back upon them. She's already made Jean's TP feedback on her, painfully.

Period.

@marvelfan1992: a being with godhood telekinetic, molecular manipulator, Matter manipulator could accomplished that.. probability manipulation can as well, the ability to make unlikely things to happen, it defies logic itself.

Before we say that feat is reality warping, we need to ask ourself what reality warping is..

Reality warping is the ability to create life from nothing. What separates matter manipulators from reality warpers is that mm users can not control or give life where rw user can.

Reality warping to me is matter manipation + the ability to create life...

So there r other abilities other than reality warping that can acomplish that feat

Eh, looked like reality warping to me

@marvelfan1992: Star is a new Marvel anti heroine who wanted to be like Captain Marvel but then she got the Reality Stone and she's currently a reality warper and Wanda (another reality warper stated by the comic book writer Kelly Thompson and Marvel) was helping her to control her new powers.

Jean and gray

Sue solos R1, I'd CaV this if you disagree.

R2 & R3 is 50/50 but I'm leaning towards Sue and Wanda due to speed advantage.

@cruelrain: Ah i see. thanks

R1: Sue & Wanda in a good fight

R2: Jean & Rachel due to TP

R3: Could go either way but I’m leaning Sue & Wanda

R1- I'm not doing a CaV...but you'd still be wrong. What is actually stopping either of the Grey's from snapping her necks.

R2 & R3- Show me those speed of thought feats

@psi-bite234 said:

@scarlet_wiccan said:

@koays said:

Yea....Sue and Wanda aren't winning anything but R1. And that's a big MAYBE.

Sue solos R1, I'd CaV this if you disagree.

R2 & R3 is 50/50 but I'm leaning towards Sue and Wanda due to speed advantage.

Feats for neck snap or head crush? Or anything to keep up with telepathy? No?

Take another look I'll wait....

Still no?

Ok then.

Sue's force field has blocked TK from Jean twice, while Jean and Rachel can't defend themselves from Sue's attacks.

Sue can instinctively attack meaning faster than the speed of thought. What are Jean and Rachel's best calculated speed of thought feats?

@scarlet_wiccan: @koays: "internal attacks" are off for rounds 1-2 and I did intend this to include stuff like neck snapping and the like

Wanda did mention she could repeat HoM if she wanted to, I think in the AXIS/Red Skull event, so for rounds 2-3 she could potentially reality warp the Greys

@koays:

Sue can also crush her opponent's heads and Wanda can snap necks in a better fashion then both Rachel and Jean. (She can even slow time and then end them with her bare hands if she wanted to lol )

Gallery

What Sue attack can't be defend from? There are no internal attacks here....and they both have molecular manipulation. What striking offense does she have above nuke level?

Sue has only blocked TK from 60's Jean and broken powers post Resurrection Jean....that is nothing on a Jean who's powers couldn't be contained by a Phoenix Force bubble and were still reaching across the planet.

Sue attacking instinctively doesn't mean she's somehow gonna one-shot before Rachel or Jean rip brain apart. She doesn't have a single "instinctive" attack feat that can compete with either of their shields.

Jean has explored and inserted years of thoughts in seconds. Rachel has had long conversations in the space between a second and the next. All of this too say nothing of the fact that they regularly engage in combat and or training with Xavier and Emma who walked through and manipulated entire lifetimes in a moment.

Round 1: Team 2.

Round 2: Team 1.

As for Round 3?: Most likely Wanda Solos with her Reality Warp.

@psi-bite234 said:

@koays:

Sue can also crush her opponent's heads and Wanda can snap necks in a better fashion then both Rachel and Jean. (She can even slow time and then end them with her bare hands if she wanted to lol )

Gallery

Lmao what does this even mean? She can crush heads too...it's not a "best neck snap wins the fight" competition. How likely is she to do this? Rachel and Jean with morals off liberally abuse tk to cause grievous injury. Wanda has nothing to suggest she can keep up with either of them once morals go off, she's the slowest one here and has the least defenses of anyone.

Rachel is immune to effects of time manipulation and has just as many feats of leaping through or noselling time manipulation as Scarlet Witch does.

In a fight like this with speed, shields and one-shots as a factor, Wanda's 4 years of finally being competent isn't going to do anything since she just can't keep up.

@koays

Omg Sue legend

@geekryan: Cyclops has tagged classic Quicksilver and attacking Emma when she's on your team and in the middle of a sentence is not a great argument for your telepathy defense.

You asked for feats that prove her powers work at the speed of thought. There you go.

I did?

Post 24

Hmm. Wow. I did.

*shrug* I still stand by my critiques. Gonna go sober up though

Good idea lmao

@koays said:

Sue can KO both Jean and Rachel with attacks like above since their shields can't prevent Sue from creating force fields anywhere. Sue can also disrupt cosmic beings' force fields so she could just disrupt Jean and Rachel's. Sue can casually harm Blastaar who's durability is far Nuke level.

Nothing changes the fact that Sue's force field has blocked Jean's TK twice and the Phoenix bubble thing is an obvious outlier for Jean, unless you're trying to say that Jean is somehow more powerful than the Phoenix Force.

Again, Quantifiable speed feats for the Greys please?

If Sue can attack instinctively, she can attack before anyone can process a thought, given that the Grey's powers operate at the speed of thought... I mean Sue has out speeded Emma who is also speed of thought, so...

Sue's QUANTIFIABLE speed feats contain deflecting multiple meteors at a time, gathering people in her force field that's spread across a giant base while an explosion is going off, intercepting Human Torch and Iron Man mid flight, timing electricity, ect.

What's Pink Mode?

@baldur_odinson: A mode in which Jean can absorb psionic energy from others and the ambient.

@koays:

Lmao what does this even mean? She can crush heads too...it's not a "best neck snap wins the fight" competition. How likely is she to do this? Rachel and Jean with morals off liberally abuse tk to cause grievous injury. Wanda has nothing to suggest she can keep up with either of them once morals go off, she's the slowest one here and has the least defenses of anyone.

She's not the slowest one here Rachel is BTW

Gallery

• Intercepted lightning close range
• Mind controlled Wanda tags current Quicksilver

Rachel is immune to effects of time manipulation and has just as many feats of leaping through or noselling time manipulation as Scarlet Witch does.

Jean isn't though

In a fight like this with speed, shields and one-shots as a factor, Wanda's 4 years of finally being competent isn't going to do anything since she just can't keep up.

Wanda's shields can definitely keep up even blow Rachel/Jean out of the water period

Gallery

• Her shields traps the likes of Colossus, Rouge and Moonstone
• Her shields blocks attacks from Choas (Someone comparable to Nightmare)
• Shields herself from Phoenix Namor for a extended period of time
• Blocks attacks from Phoenix amped Cyclops

Christ is Lord.

Sues forcefields can't get past Jean or Rachels telekinetic shields. So much nonsense in this thread

That’s it. I’m dropping into the ring. Let’s see....whose first....

@psi-bite234: 1) Both telekinetics are lightning timers.

2) And Jean has one of blocking Monica Rambeau and turning her physical.

3) Rachel has the ability to pull people with her through time. It is doubtful that Jean would be left behind by Rachel, especially if they keep their telepathic link up. Hell, her very first appearance was switching the minds of Kitty and Kate Pryde.

4) As far as Wanda’s shield, Colossus and Rogue would be no issue to either Jean or Rachel. Moonstone is Impressive, but Jean has kept her grasp on Kitty Pryde before as a teenager.

5) Don’t know how to quantify that character. Next!

6) Phoenix Five Namor is the most impressive one of the scams shown. Teen Jean blocked the Phoenix Force in full’s attack while shielding others.

7) Context: Scott was being locked down by Xavier, making him massively nerfed in that battle. I am pretty sure Wanda was not facing the full force of 1/2 Phoenix Cyclops on her own.

Seriously

They can remember when Jean without telepathy got trapped and try to use it as a TP defense feat for Sue. But when it comes to sue failing to break through Jeans shields. Amnesia.

@psi-bite234 said:

@koays:

Lmao what does this even mean? She can crush heads too...it's not a "best neck snap wins the fight" competition. How likely is she to do this? Rachel and Jean with morals off liberally abuse tk to cause grievous injury. Wanda has nothing to suggest she can keep up with either of them once morals go off, she's the slowest one here and has the least defenses of anyone.

She's not the slowest one here Rachel is BTW

Gallery

• Intercepted lightning close range
• Mind controlled Wanda tags current Quicksilver

Rachel is immune to effects of time manipulation and has just as many feats of leaping through or noselling time manipulation as Scarlet Witch does.

Jean isn't though

In a fight like this with speed, shields and one-shots as a factor, Wanda's 4 years of finally being competent isn't going to do anything since she just can't keep up.

Wanda's shields can definitely keep up even blow Rachel/Jean out of the water period

Gallery

• Her shields traps the likes of Colossus, Rouge and Moonstone
• Her shields blocks attacks from Choas (Someone comparable to Nightmare)
• Shields herself from Phoenix Namor for a extended period of time
• Blocks attacks from Phoenix amped Cyclops

Yes, Avengers vs Xmen. Where wanda became Phoenix kryptonite and just touching her hurt Phoenix cyclops.

@scarlet_wiccan said:

@koays said:

@scarlet_wiccan said:

@koays said:

@scarlet_wiccan said:

@koays said:

Yea....Sue and Wanda aren't winning anything but R1. And that's a big MAYBE.

Sue solos R1, I'd CaV this if you disagree.

R2 & R3 is 50/50 but I'm leaning towards Sue and Wanda due to speed advantage.

R1- I'm not doing a CaV...but you'd still be wrong. What is actually stopping either of the Grey's from snapping her necks.

R2 & R3- Show me those speed of thought feats

Sue's force field has blocked TK from Jean twice, while Jean and Rachel can't defend themselves from Sue's attacks.

Sue can instinctively attack meaning faster than the speed of thought. What are Jean and Rachel's best calculated speed of thought feats?

What Sue attack can't be defend from? There are no internal attacks here....and they both have molecular manipulation. What striking offense does she have above nuke level?

Sue has only blocked TK from 60's Jean and broken powers post Resurrection Jean....that is nothing on a Jean who's powers couldn't be contained by a Phoenix Force bubble and were still reaching across the planet.

Sue attacking instinctively doesn't mean she's somehow gonna one-shot before Rachel or Jean rip brain apart. She doesn't have a single "instinctive" attack feat that can compete with either of their shields.

Jean has explored and inserted years of thoughts in seconds. Rachel has had long conversations in the space between a second and the next. All of this too say nothing of the fact that they regularly engage in combat and or training with Xavier and Emma who walked through and manipulated entire lifetimes in a moment.

Sue can KO both Jean and Rachel with attacks like above since their shields can't prevent Sue from creating force fields anywhere. Sue can also disrupt cosmic beings' force fields so she could just disrupt Jean and Rachel's. Sue can casually harm Blastaar who's durability is far Nuke level.

Nothing changes the fact that Sue's force field has blocked Jean's TK twice and the Phoenix bubble thing is an obvious outlier for Jean, unless you're trying to say that Jean is somehow more powerful than the Phoenix Force.

Again, Quantifiable speed feats for the Greys please?

If Sue can attack instinctively, she can attack before anyone can process a thought, given that the Grey's powers operate at the speed of thought... I mean Sue has out speeded Emma who is also speed of thought, so...

Sue's QUANTIFIABLE speed feats contain deflecting multiple meteors at a time, gathering people in her force field that's spread across a giant base while an explosion is going off, intercepting Human Torch and Iron Man mid flight, timing electricity, ect.

Using your very own logic......are you suggesting Sue is stronger then the cosmic level shields she has disrupted?

Pick a case....either interfering with cosmics indirectly is a strong feat or it's an outlier.

And Emma and her were literally on the same team....