Jason Todd And Damian Wayne Vs Black Widow and Daredevil

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joshua755

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Takes place in Time Square both teams going all out they both have standard gear win by ko death or incap random encounter both have perfect team work

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Lucano

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#2  Edited By Lucano

Jason and Damian should edge them out in skill while Nat probably has the equipment edge, not sure. Overall, I think Jason and Damian should win on a very good fight.

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HukO

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Team 2 can't see Jason or Damian our Skilling matt

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juiceboks

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#4  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

Natasha can hold her own against Jason and probably beats Damian and Matt stomps Damian while beating Jason. Can't see how team 2 loses unless Damian did something remarkable lately

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joshua755

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@juiceboks: do you think it’s a stomp or a good fight

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The_Hajduk

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Daredevil is just a lot better than them both and so is Black Widow if you know her true feats.

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AllStarSuperman

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#7  Edited By AllStarSuperman

Skill doesn’t even matter when Jason can electrocute both his opponents at the same time with enough voltage to drop an Amazon warrior.

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Wabubub

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Team Bat brats for the win with gear. Jason could give Matt a good fight without gear.

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Slade-Prime

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Team 2.

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joshua755

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Interesting split

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ANTHP2000

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Obviously Natasha and Matt. They're more comparable to Dick Grayson than Damian or Todd.

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Cruelrain

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Contrary about much people think Natasha is not a fodder in h2h, she even stalemated Elekta (in a real stalemate both could kill each other) and she has the best gear here

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Lenzo0

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#13  Edited By Lenzo0

Jason Todd would give them problems. Adding Damian Wayne gives them a solid chance, but Widow never striked me as anyone insane in H2H. Todd likes to fight dirty, and he will do whatever he can to make sure he wins. Even going as far as being stabbed (which he has by Essence) to make sure he gains the advantage.

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joshua755

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@lenzo0: really reason so far it’s been down the middle why you give team bats a solid W

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Jirou

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Skill doesn’t even matter when Jason can electrocute both his opponents at the same time with enough voltage to drop an Amazon warrior.

ah yes, the ol' electrocute or bust argument. Very consistent for Jason to use. Matt and Natasha just won't see it coming.

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Jirou

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@lenzo0 said:

Jason Todd alone would give both of them problems and can even solo. Adding Damian Wayne gives them a solid and secured win.

Jason Todd gets punked by Bruce when he's trying. I see no reason why Matt cannot replicate that in more spectacular fashion.

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AllStarSuperman

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#17  Edited By AllStarSuperman

@jirou: Very consistent indeed. Did it to Merlyn, Nightwing, Bruce, Artemis, a group of soldiers, another group of Hive soldiers, did it again very recently against another crowd. Out right murdered Captain Nazi a high tier Shazam villain with a taser to the face. Tell me why he wouldn’t use one of these bad boys on Daredevil?

Also tasered Anarky and Penguins bodyguards.

Also threatened to use his “electro-knuckles” on Cassandra Cain.

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Jirou

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@allstarsuperman: Every instance you show me where todd uses a taser I can show you dozens more where he doesn't. Also imagine highballing Captain Nazi in the same run where batman and dick stomped Amazo who is a Justice League "tier" opponent.

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AllStarSuperman

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@jirou said:

@allstarsuperman: Every instance you show me where todd uses a taser I can show you dozens more where he doesn't.

No you can’t. If the context is that he’s in character and actually trying to win a fight. Then he will use a taser. Name two fights where he doesnt use a taser, where he’s actually trying his best to win.

Off the top of my head, the fights you’re thinking of are probably, Battle for the Cowl, where he‘s out of character. But guess what he still dropped Nightwing with a taser in that. Then let’s him wake up so he can monologue. Or you’ll think of the 2 Under the Red Hood fights against Batman. Where, 1 he used a taser to explode Bruce’s gauntlet in the first fight, 2 in the second fight Jasons not even trying, he wants to talk at the point.

Go ahead and name some fights, but I’m gonna assume that they are badly written crossover stories like Batman Eternal/Batman and Robin Eternal.

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Lenzo0

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#20  Edited By Lenzo0

@joshua755: When it comes toImmense HumanPhysicals, TheBat-Family is mostly known for that.

Jason Todd is the second most muscular person in the bat-family from what i've seen. Second to Batman.

Remember that After Jason Todd Was resurrected by the Lazarus Pit, all his physicals were enhanced even further. He also regenerates from injuries at a very fast rate. He is able to withstand being shot and stabbed mulitple times. For me he outclasses everyone here in my opinion.

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Polu20

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Jason and Damien win good fight though

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BruceRogers

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@lenzo0: See but the thing is Matt has fought guys like Wolverine and Sabertooth -- both who can do everything you mentioned about Jason, but on a far grander scale -- and held his own pretty well. Unless Jason has gotten a pretty big upgrade recently, he isn't beating prime Daredevil, let alone beating him and Black Widow at the same time.

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Lenzo0

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#23  Edited By Lenzo0
@jirou said:

Jason Todd gets punked by Bruce when he's trying. I see no reason why Matt cannot replicate that in more spectacular fashion.

He once said that the times he spent fighting Bruce when they were trying to kill each other, he held back. whether or not you wanna take the statement seriously is up to you. I believe if Bruce went full out on him, Bruce would take him down.

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SufferedToker

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Team 2.

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Hulk_Like_Fire

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Gonna go with team 2 in a very hard fight.

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Lenzo0

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#26  Edited By Lenzo0

@brucerogers said:

@lenzo0: See but the thing is Matt has fought guys like Wolverine and Sabertooth -- both who can do everything you mentioned about Jason, but on a far grander scale -- and held his own pretty well. Unless Jason has gotten a pretty big upgrade recently, he isn't beating prime Daredevil, let alone beating him and Black Widow at the same time.

I See where you are coming from. But, there are things they just can't do

When he fought Wolverine. Did Wolv have his Adamantium Claws or what kind of a fight was it? Because given what Jason Have done and what he is equipped with, he could do a lot better against them.

But, then you have Deathstroke. Who Jason has defeated, To be fair, Even tho Deathstroke was tired and had limited healing, Jason was also handicapped to only fight to hurt, not to kill. But, Deathstroke in a regular day would take him down. So its a good-ish showing for him.

Deathstroke has taken a beating from Lobo and have managed to draw blood from him. Has survived a damn Submarine thrown at him. Like i said above, both Jason and Deathstroke have never gone full out on each other. Note that Jason has taken hits from Bizzaro.

He also has a punch taught by The All-Castle that removes someones powers and immortality. Tho no-one here really possess that as far as i am concerned. Still rather unqiue. He used it on a Godlike Ras' Al Ghul to take his powers away.

He also has his All-Blades. Which are able to cut robots in half and can match up to the Swords of Hephaestus.

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joshua755

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Vertigo-

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Matt beats either, Natasha holds the other off

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AllStarSuperman

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Unless Jason has gotten a pretty big upgrade recently, he isn't beating prime Daredevil, let alone beating him and Black Widow at the same time.

In “Event Leviathan“, Jason fights a team of Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Manhunter (Kate Spencer), Plastic Man, and Lois Lane all at once/back to back. He even shows the following accuracy feats, shoots Lois‘ phone out of her hand, shoots Manhunters staff, just grazes one of the ears on Bruce’s cowl to be a dick. And he does all that in free fall. They all land in water and Jason beats Batman and Damian by drowning them at the same time, requiring only one had to hold each down. After Bat duo are knocked out, Jason faces Manhunter 1v1. He out right tanks a hit to the back of his head from Kates electric staff. (This thing can ko or kill super humans if you’ve ever read her preFlashpoint series, which I highly recommend). Jason blocks another hit from the staff with his forearm and punches Kate out and stills the staff. Green Arrow shoots an arrow at Jason from behind and Jason casually deflects it without looking then uses the magnetic powers of the staff to redirect its flight into Batman and Robin, it was a taser net arrow and the Duo gets knocked out yet again. Jason then has a conversation with Lois and is free to leave. He punked that entire team and he wasn’t even trying.
Also this event was written by Bendis. But I like the feats for Jason so it’s valid.

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BruceRogers

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@lenzo0: Yes, he fought Adamantium Wolverine who was brainwashed and sent to kill him, with a small army of Hand ninjas, during Enemy of the State. The ninjas were barely an inconvenience and Matt survived the encounter by holding his own and knocking Wolverine into a sword, which broke the mind control. Of course, Matt cannot actually beat him in a protracted fight because of his healing factor and extremely lethal claws, but he can damn well hold his own until then. Wolverine is one of the fastest and most skilled street levellers Marvel has got.

Tangling with an exhausted Deathstroke is great but Matt has effortlessly evaded Captain America's blows, who was at his best and had ambushed him. He beat Deadpool in a similar manner. Then there is that Wolverine instance. And Sabertooth.

Obviously, Jason surviving a Superman class opponent is PIS. Just like Matt withstanding Thor's hammer strike or several hits from Hulk. Likewise with Lobo. Logically, they would be a bloody smear from just a glancing hit but y'know, plot.

When was the last time Jason used All-Blades?

All in all, whatever Jason has done, Matt has done better.

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BruceRogers

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@allstarsuperman: Interesting. I haven't really kept up with Bendis since he left Marvel. Unless it's Superman. I'll give it a look.

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Nathaniel_Adam

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Red Hood definitely beats either on his own

but I‘m not sure if Damian is that big of a factor.

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Lenzo0

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#34  Edited By Lenzo0

@brucerogers:

Well, Jason Tood has fought against Shiva Trained Man-Bats, Has kinda beaten Cassandra Cain, Defeated a member of The Untilted, fought a godlike Ras Al Ghul, Stalemated Ravager, Beaten Shiva herself with a unique technique she taught him. <-- there was context behind this one.

And then there is the "Event Leviathan" what Allstarsuperman mentioned. But, not quite sure about that one.

Like i said, they have never had a full out fight. Where he fought Deathstroke, he wasn't trying.

Sabertooth ain't comparable to Deathstroke imo. Wolverine has really not gotten to use his skills most of the time, due to his fighting style involving launching himself towards people with his Claws and aggressively stabbin them etc. He fights more like a beast rather than a martial artist imo. He rarely uses most of his martial arts training and knowledge he has due to that.

Talons i believe are more superior than Hand Ninjas. Jason has KO'ed many and snapped the neck and arm of a big one.

I wouldn't exactly called that PIS. Like i said, He is enhanced and DD isn't. Only his Senses are. Well, tanking a god weapon like that is PIS and its the writer's fault for even making anything like that happen to a street leveler. What Bizzaro did was less or not PIS compared to that. Since Todd is Damn durable.

Bizzaro is a Superman Clone. He ain't as powerful as Superman (obviously). Haven't seen him do anything near Superman's level. For me i would not put him as a Superman Class Opponent. Note he was being mind controlled. He wasn't himself and Red Hood tried to calm him down. Same Red Hood who survived multiple nukes going off underwater and was completely fine.

Captain America, Ultimately would defeat Daredevil and he has as well, while his mind was altered by drug, he once defeated DD.

When was the last time Jason used All-Blades?

Red Hood & the Outlaws #44 IIRC. He is still using them and is shown to summon them whenever he wants. Has fought Essence with them in #35 and let himself get stabbed etc.

Which is what will give him an advantage.

All in all, whatever Jason has done, Matt has done better.

This is really based on Personal Opinion, i can say he is respected by Talia, The League of Assassins Respect him as well, has balls and talked to Helspont, a Superman Villain. Arsenal has talked about his reputation and has done things in the same way as DD.

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joshua755

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joshua755

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@nathaniel_adam: I do believe Damian can hold his own that’s why I put him in this battle

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Nathaniel_Adam

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@joshua755: Yeah if he can be used as a distraction or buying time for Todd then Todd can carry the team no doubt.