Jac's Amalgam: Bluejay4 vs Joewell

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FukYouRenchamp

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Bluejay4 vs Joewell

Spider-Man+X-23 vs Ember Mclain+Johnny Gat

Rules

  • You have to follow the morals of one of your parents, and the same goes for personality. (ie; in character)
  • All gear must be STANDARD GEAR OF THE MOTHER/FATHER. They must only use what their mother and father REGULARLY uses. (Ex. Cap with his shield / Elektra with her Twin Sai)
  • Your character will share the attributes of the mother and the father with an addition of the special abilities that either or both might have. (Ex. Grifter and telekinesis/ Cassandra Cain and Body Reading) Of which would mean that your character will possess those abilities. You're of course going to be using scans of the Mother/Father but using them to interpret what their child is doing on the battlefield.
  • Your Character WILL BE AT THEIR PEAK OF WHATEVER THEIR PEAK IS. Adult, if you will.
  • You can choose characters from any universe, as long as they have applicable feats. If I don't know who the character is, and can't find a solid amount of feats in an hour, I'm not going to let them in. No self-created characters, even if you're actually a comic book writer.

Limitations

  • Telekinesis is limited to 5 Tons. You can use it on your opponent, but cannot use it to pin them or attack them internally.
  • Telepathy can only be used to mind read
  • 20 Ton Strength Limit (Classic Spiderman)
  • Travel speed is limited to subsonic
  • Reactions- catching bullets is ok, as is dodging them after fired. Think of Wrath (FMA:B) for the reaction limit.
  • No energy projection above Tank busting, no spammable attacks of that level.
  • Maximum durability is Iron Man (MCU)
  • Healing factor is limited in that if the majority of the body is destroyed, it cannot return, and no resurrection-like abilities.
  • Summons are not allowed, however, abilities that use power that appears in a summon-like form is ok (I.e. Telekinetic apparitions are good).

The following abilities are prohibited

  • Unavoidable Attacks
  • Telefrag/slice
  • Physical Internal Attacks
  • Reality Warping
  • Duplication
  • Molecule Manipulation
  • Power Mimicry/Absorption/Nullification
  • Clayform
  • Intangibility
  • Temporal Manipulation
  • Perfect Invisibility

Other General Rules

  • I'd really rather you submit a character within limits rather than nerfing. I'll allow it on a case by case basis.
  • I get last say- deal with it
  • I can kick anyone out if they're a b!tch about my rulings
  • Make your character post here, and once again when the PM is made
  • Make sure you tag me, or I won't notice!

Voting Rules

  • Voters must have at least participated in one tournament or CaV before, or otherwise have more than 100 posts.
  • Voters must have actually read the debate to vote, if I see what I regard as bias, I'll discount the vote.
  • I'm not going to let anyone with a post count under 300 vote. It's not because I don't value their opinions, but I don't want any alts voting.
  • Please give reasons because of the debate, not who you think would win. (i.e. "Batman/Harley Quinn amalgam would win, so I'll vote for that" is wrong, while "User wins the debate because he was able to show why his character would win" Is right).

Good Luck!!!

Start on opposite sides, first post gets to pick their side.

No Caption Provided

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Joewell911

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#2  Edited By Joewell911

@pr0metheus: Sweet. Can we get a video or something on the area? I'm having trouble finding one.

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FukYouRenchamp

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@pr0metheus: Sweet. Can we get a video or something on the area? I'm having trouble finding one.

Loading Video...

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#4  Edited By Joewell911

@pr0metheus: Thaaankks.

I'll have my post in soon, BlueJay.

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@bluejay4: Let's see if you stay as confident as you were in the PM!

I'll be starting on the lower half, btw.

Introducing...

Lilith the Maiden of Metal

No Caption Provided
  • Mother: Ember Mclain
  • Father: Johnny Gat

Theme:

Loading Video...

Bio:

What happens when you take a teen ghost pop idol and a Hell-traveling gangsta from the streets?! Well, a really bad sitcom for one, and Lilith the Maiden of Metal for another! Soon after Lilith's birth, Ember was captured once again by Danny Phantom and returned to the Ghost Zone. This left Lilith to be raised in New Hades (A section of Hell) by her father. Gat, however, just couldn't bring himself to separate from the Saints, so that was the life Lilith lived as well. A powerful member of the biggest gang in the world, traveling around and generally doing whatever she wanted for a majority of her life. And now, she wants your soul.

Combat Ability:

Stats

With the father being a Hell-Empowered gangster and the mother being a ghost, it's obvious Lilith would get some superhuman physicals.

On the strength part, she's touching the upper limits of this tournament. Her mother Ember was able to wrestle down Danny Phantom, who could throw around school buses full of children and punch around building sized robots.

Speed wise is just as good. Gat, using Lucifer's Halo, can run incredibly fast. So fast, in fact, he can go straight up walls.

Bonus feat in the first gif, he's seen flipping tanks by just running into them.

Side note on speed too, due to one of Gat's special abilities, Lilith can run near infinitely and she creates a powerful shield around her while doing so.

Lilith's durability is nothing to laugh at either. On her dad's side, she can tank sustained machine gun fire without going down. Her mom can take hits from Phantom (Both physical and energetic) who can launch enemies across the city with a single blast.

Oh, and she's completely immune to fire.

Woo!

Powers

Okay, this might take a bit. She has a loooooot of powers.

First, let's get the basics out of the way. Lilith can turn invisible, fly (With no aid, Guitar, or Wings.), and teleport. She also has fire hair, because that's always fun.

Now onto the more offensive stuff. From Ember she gets various guitar blasts. There's the standard beam, which launches back Danny. Then there are fists, which can not only do that but also smash tank sized dragons. And of course she has a spread attack, a pure wave of sound that can shake a skyscraper.

For reference, Danny can tank a head on rocket without damage.

Then we have the stranger powers. She can make anyone who hears her riffs fall in love or go into a mindless rage. I'll admit this can be resisted, but do have the feats to do it?

Along with that, she can trap opponents in tornados of energy and force fields.

So you better watch out.

Halfway there! Let's look at good ol' Gat. To keep things quick, I'll just be posting a video of all the powers.

Loading Video...

And a "small" list with descriptions.

  • Summons (Cleared by Jac):
    • Four Imps that can be used like sentient bombs to fly at and maul enemies, then explode. They're also infused with Coldfire, which can incinerate even fire resistance demons.
    • A 10ish foot all Tower that can impale foes from below or launch airstrikes at them.
    • A hulking beast called a Titan that can flip around tanks and take gunfire before going down.
  • Blasts:
    • Stone, which works turns the opponent to rock, killing them instantly. It works on weapons and vehicles too!
    • Soul, which hunts down opponents and consumes their soul in a painful manner. How fun!
    • Shadow, an AoE blast that slows all caught in it to a snail's pace, then explodes while they're trapped inside.
  • Stomps:
    • Force, which launches all near hundreds of feet back, if not killing them instantly. This is strong enough to send even huge monster trucks flying.
    • Vacuum, the reverse of the above. It sucks everything in, disorientated all caught in it's radius.
    • Holy, this just incinerates things. Quick and easy!
  • Aura:
    • Coldfire, which burns everything in close range with ice cold flames that both freezes the victim to the core and vaporizes them with a super hot flame.
    • Vamp, which sucks the life force out of everyone and turns it into health for the user.
    • Worship, that forces all opponents to bow down and kneel before Zod Lilith and await a slaughtering by their glorious leader.

Aaand that's it. You get what I was talkin' about now, don't ya?

Weapons

Woohoohooo!! Because the powers weren't enough, now I get to show off the sinsational (Ha, you'll get it in a sec.) arsonal of Lilith.

Mamma only gave her one thing, her ghostly guitar. I've shown off what that can do above so I can save this for Gat's various gear.

Daddy on the other hand was the most loved every Christmas. He blesses Lilith with a ridiculous armoury, but I'll just touch on the biggest ones so we can get through it.

Once again, we're going with the video and list format, because it worked so well last time. I won't be covering the less important weapons, so some may be skipped.

Loading Video...
  • Melee:
    • Omega Omega Omega, a spiked board that launches anything it hits.
    • God's Hammer, a huge war hammer that turns enemies to paste while smiting them with lightning.
    • Uriel's Edge, the weapon of Envy. A flaming greatsword that can throw explosive fireballs when not straight melting the opponent.
  • Pistols:
    • Energy Crossbows, which are pretty self explanatory. The energy from the bolts can zap between multiple enemies.
    • Gallows Dodger, the weapon of Pride. An automatic pistol that shoots explosive balls of energy and talks.
  • SMGs:
    • Exodus 10, twin submachines guns that shoot blood sucking insects that home on to targets.
    • Diamond Sting, the weapon of Greed. It shoots diamonds at high speeds and turns targets to money.
  • Shotguns:
    • Ultor Soulsweeper, a fully auto shotgun that blasts away at the soul.
    • Boom Chicka, the weapon of Lust. This one makes anyone not instantly killed fall in love with Lilith and forces them into a cute little jig.
  • Rifles:
    • Ultor LNG, this one simply tears everything into pieces. The wielder also becomes more durable while holding it!
    • Lava Cannon, yeah, exactly. It shoots molten steel at everything, lighting it all ablaze.
    • Armchair-A-Geddon, the weapon of Sloth. Twin mini-guns, a volley of heat seeking missiles, and a comfy seat to rest on. I think I'm in love.
  • Explosive:
    • Lil Croaker, two words; plague frogs! This shoots diseased filled amphibians at that hop at the target until killed.
    • Ark of the Covenant, the weapon of Wrath. This weapon not only sucks souls, but shoots them back as explosives! How delicious.
  • Misc:
    • The Last Supper, the weapon of Gluttony. This just covers the target in yummy pink frosting that forces all around it to come and take a bite.

Impressive, I'm I right?

If this wasn't enough, there are upgrades that allow all these weapons to have unlimited ammo and never have to reload! So the assault can be endless!

Aaaaaand done. That took a really long time, actually. In my next post, I'll explain why Lilith wins this, but until then it's your go. Good luck!

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@pr0metheus: Oh and Pr0, will there be citizens/npcs around?

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Spiderine. The product of drunk, stabby and completely unromantic sexy times between Peter Parker and Laura Kinney. I'm pretty sure that's all anybody needs to know...
Spiderine. The product of drunk, stabby and completely unromantic sexy times between Peter Parker and Laura Kinney. I'm pretty sure that's all anybody needs to know...

Let us begin.

Because Spiderman and Laura are so well known, an intro would be useless. So without further ado...

With the father being a Hell-Empowered gangster and the mother being a ghost, it's obvious Lilith would get some superhuman physicals.

On the strength part, she's touching the upper limits of this tournament. Her mother Ember was able to wrestle down Danny Phantom, who could throw around school buses full of children and punch around building sized robots.

Hardly impressive. Peter was throwing around buses one handily as a teen. Not to mention Peter's physical equal, his clone Ben Reily, tore a Sentinel to shreds. Her strength is negligible at best. compared to Peter's.

Speed wise is just as good. Gat, using Lucifer's Halo, can run incredibly fast. So fast, in fact, he can go straight up walls.

That's adorable. Peter may not be as fast as Gat in terms of raw speed, which is debatable, but he's faster in terms combat speed and reaction time. Which is all that really matters in a fight.

Side note on speed too, due to one of Gat's special abilities, Lilith can run near infinitely and she creates a powerful shield around her while doing so.

Lilith's durability is nothing to laugh at either. On her dad's side, she can tank sustained machine gun fire without going down. Her mom can take hits from Phantom (Both physical and energetic) who can launch enemies across the city with a single blast.

Oh, and she's completely immune to fire.

Cool. She can beat Spiderine in a race, that's great. But she can only run so long till Spiderine blitzes the hell out of her.

That's not going to help her from stopping two super durable claws from being logged into her throat. And Peter has hurt people who have tanked rocket fire before...so good but no dice.

Not going to help.

Okay, this might take a bit. She has a loooooot of powers.

First, let's get the basics out of the way. Lilith can turn invisible, fly (With no aid, Guitar, or Wings.), and teleport. She also has fire hair, because that's always fun.

Now onto the more offensive stuff. From Ember she gets various guitar blasts. There's the standard beam, which launches back Danny. Then there are fists, which can not only do that but also smash tank sized dragons. And of course she has a spread attack, a pure wave of sound that can shake a skyscraper.

Peter has dealt with far more competent teleporters than Lilith. And the Spider sense completely negates invisibility, while webbing nullifies flight.

Spiderine either dodges the beam. or tanks it with his mom's healing factor. Same with the soundwave.

For reference, Danny can tank a head on rocket without damage.

Then we have the stranger powers. She can make anyone who hears her riffs fall in love or go into a mindless rage. I'll admit this can be resisted, but do have the feats to do it?

Peter has resisted Mr Fear's illusions and all around has a super strong will power, comparable to even Batman. My favorite example was when he refused to give up to Thing, while empowered during Fear Itself, and continued to attack him, despite being heavily beat down and with a broken arm.

Along with that, she can trap opponents in tornados of energy and force fields.

Spiderine either dodges the tornado, or simply breaks out of it.

And a "small" list with descriptions.

  • Summons (Cleared by Jac):
    • Four Imps that can be used like sentient bombs to fly at and maul enemies, then explode. They're also infused with Coldfire, which can incinerate even fire resistance demons.
    • A 10ish foot all Tower that can impale foes from below or launch airstrikes at them.
    • A hulking beast called a Titan that can flip around tanks and take gunfire before going down.
  • Blasts:
    • Stone, which works turns the opponent to rock, killing them instantly. It works on weapons and vehicles too!
    • Soul, which hunts down opponents and consumes their soul in a painful manner. How fun!
    • Shadow, an AoE blast that slows all caught in it to a snail's pace, then explodes while they're trapped inside.
  • Stomps:
    • Force, which launches all near hundreds of feet back, if not killing them instantly. This is strong enough to send even huge monster trucks flying.
    • Vacuum, the reverse of the above. It sucks everything in, disorientated all caught in it's radius.
    • Holy, this just incinerates things. Quick and easy!
  • Aura:
    • Coldfire, which burns everything in close range with ice cold flames that both freezes the victim to the core and vaporizes them with a super hot flame.
    • Vamp, which sucks the life force out of everyone and turns it into health for the user.
    • Worship, that forces all opponents to bow down and kneel before Zod Lilith and await a slaughtering by their glorious leader.

Aaand that's it. You get what I was talkin' about now, don't ya?

Everything is either to slow for him to be tagged by, or he can simply tank most of it. The soul weapon is the only thing capable of ending Spiderine, but he simply aim dodges it and waits for her to run out of ammunition.

  • Melee:
    • Omega Omega Omega, a spiked board that launches anything it hits.
    • God's Hammer, a huge war hammer that turns enemies to paste while smiting them with lightning.
    • Uriel's Edge, the weapon of Envy. A flaming greatsword that can throw explosive fireballs when not straight melting the opponent.
  • Pistols:
    • Energy Crossbows, which are pretty self explanatory. The energy from the bolts can zap between multiple enemies.
    • Gallows Dodger, the weapon of Pride. An automatic pistol that shoots explosive balls of energy and talks.
  • SMGs:
    • Exodus 10, twin submachines guns that shoot blood sucking insects that home on to targets.
    • Diamond Sting, the weapon of Greed. It shoots diamonds at high speeds and turns targets to money.
  • Shotguns:
    • Ultor Soulsweeper, a fully auto shotgun that blasts away at the soul.
    • Boom Chicka, the weapon of Lust. This one makes anyone not instantly killed fall in love with Lilith and forces them into a cute little jig.
  • Rifles:
    • Ultor LNG, this one simply tears everything into pieces. The wielder also becomes more durable while holding it!
    • Lava Cannon, yeah, exactly. It shoots molten steel at everything, lighting it all ablaze.
    • Armchair-A-Geddon, the weapon of Sloth. Twin mini-guns, a volley of heat seeking missiles, and a comfy seat to rest on. I think I'm in love.
  • Explosive:
    • Lil Croaker, two words; plague frogs! This shoots diseased filled amphibians at that hop at the target until killed.
    • Ark of the Covenant, the weapon of Wrath. This weapon not only sucks souls, but shoots them back as explosives! How delicious.
  • Misc:
    • The Last Supper, the weapon of Gluttony. This just covers the target in yummy pink frosting that forces all around it to come and take a bite.

Peter and Laura dodge lasers, bullets, knives, lighting, super sonic punches and more in their sleep. Why would any of this tag Spiderine? Answer. It won't.

Impressive, I'm I right?

If this wasn't enough, there are upgrades that allow all these weapons to have unlimited ammo and never have to reload! So the assault can be endless!

Aaaaaand done. That took a really long time, actually. In my next post, I'll explain why Lilith wins this, but until then it's your go. Good luck!

Not quite.

It will delay the inevitable at best.

Thanks and right back at you.

As is Spiderine merely webs her up, blitzes her and cuts her into a thousand pieces. I will be curious to know how you plan on tagging Spiderine, with his feral senses and spider sense and all. And also how you plan on getting past his durability and healing factor.

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Joewell911

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@bluejay4: Well that was quick. Wanna agree on the amount of posts now? 2 counters and a conclusion sound ok?

Round 1: The Beginning

Counters

Hardly impressive. Peter was throwing around buses one handily as a teen. Not to mention Peter's physical equal, his clone Ben Reily, tore a Sentinel to shreds. Her strength is negligible at best. compared to Peter's.

Ok, so you know you're gonna have to get proof of the things you say, right? It's not that I don't believe you, but it's simple standard practice.

I'd still give Lilith a slight edge. She can flip tanks (25++) just by running into them and overpower people with strength equal to what you've "shown" Peter to be.

That's adorable. Peter may not be as fast as Gat in terms of raw speed, which is debatable, but he's faster in terms combat speed and reaction time. Which is all that really matters in a fight.

Don't get cocky if ya can't back it up, friendo.

Proof of his combat speed being greater?

Also, combat speed won't matter if you never get close. Your reactions will help, but will get to that later.

Cool. She can beat Spiderine in a race, that's great. But she can only run so long till Spiderine blitzes the hell out of her.

That's not going to help her from stopping two super durable claws from being logged into her throat. And Peter has hurt people who have tanked rocket fire before...so good but no dice.

Not going to help.

She can run forever actually, do to her multitude of endurance enhancing upgrades. And if Spiderine never gets close, he'll never have that opportunity.

Gat can tank constant gunfire from all the guns listed in my weapons sections, I'm sure the claws won't be bringing Lilith down quickly.

Peter has dealt with far more competent teleporters than Lilith. And the Spider sense completely negates invisibility, while webbing nullifies flight.

Spiderine either dodges the beam. or tanks it with his mom's healing factor. Same with the soundwave.

Such as? Come on, get them scans!

Spider Sense negates invisibility? First time I've heard of this. From my knowledge it only notifies Peter of things attacking him, not enemies passive invisibility.

Webbing isn't anywhere near as good as flight, especially in an area like this. There aren't many tall buildings to swing off of, and it's extremely unlikely you're hitting an opponent as fast as me while you're preoccupied with all the things coming at you.

Prooooooooff?

Peter has resisted Mr Fear's illusions and all around has a super strong will power, comparable to even Batman. My favorite example was when he refused to give up to Thing, while empowered during Fear Itself, and continued to attack him, despite being heavily beat down and with a broken arm.

See above. Even if what you say is true, mind control has outright worked on Spidey before.

No Caption Provided

So I don't see why Lilith's wouldn't work.

Spiderine either dodges the tornado, or simply breaks out of it.

Even if he breaks out, he'd still be stuck long enough for Lilith to land several other attacks.

Everything is either to slow for him to be tagged by, or he can simply tank most of it. The soul weapon is the only thing capable of ending Spiderine, but he simply aim dodges it and waits for her to run out of ammunition.

Oh-ho-ho, that's sooo untrue. But I'll make tagging Spiderine it's own section, since that seems to be such a big part of your argument.

Tanking? I'd like to see that him being able to survive fire that can freeze and burn you at the same time, suicide bombers that explode like grenades, or a straight blast of Holy light. Even if he can survive the various forms of attack that can be created by Lilith, there's things like the Soul, Vamp, and Stone blasts that ignore durability.

Peter and Laura dodge lasers, bullets, knives, lighting, super sonic punches and more in their sleep. Why would any of this tag Spiderine? Answer. It won't.

You'll see in ooonnee minute.

Not quite.

It will delay the inevitable at best.

Thanks and right back at you.

As is Spiderine merely webs her up, blitzes her and cuts her into a thousand pieces. I will be curious to know how you plan on tagging Spiderine, with his feral senses and spider sense and all. And also how you plan on getting past his durability and healing factor.

Why do you think you can tag Lilith with webs? She's perfectly fast in her own right and unlike Lilith, Spiderine doesn't have any gimmicks to land attacks. Even if the webs do hit, Lilith could simply teleport out before you get close and continue her assault.

And now for the sect. you've all been waiting for for the past 1 and a half minute!!

Tag, You're It.

If you read through my introduction post, you can see I have a multitude of means of attack. But none of those will matter because herp derp Spooder sense and sped, right? Wrong.

First off, I'd like to bring up the numerous times Spider Man has been tagged by objects far slower than what I'm dishing out.

  1. Tagged by Thing.
  2. Kicked by Kraven.
  3. Hit by energy beams.
  4. Chameleon punches him.
  5. Sandman gets a direct hit.

None of those things are particularly fast, and yet they can hit Spidey. So if they can, it's likely some of Lilith's projectiles will land.

Second, many of Lilith's attacks seek or hunt down opponents. The missiles, from Armchair-A-Geddon for example.

No Caption Provided

Or the Soul blast. Or the Exodus 10. Or Lil Croaker. All of these follow and seek the target, making it nigh impossible to avoid. Not to mention most of these attack are a OHKO.

Third, I got automatics, bby. I think you seriously underestimate the sheer amount of firepower I have going on. Let me list weapon all can be used at once. (Because we all know how much I love lists.)

  1. Armchair-A-Geddon, which I can use while using anything else. This brings twin miniguns, two extremely fast firing weapons, along with volleys of missiles that heat seek targets every couple seconds. Alone, this would be incredibly hard to deal with, but Lilith can sit down on this while using other weapons.
  2. Whatever automatic weapon she feels like using in one hand. This could be something that rains down molten lava, explosive energy balls, insects, diamonds, etc.
  3. Whatever power she feels like using in her other free hand. This could be the soul sucking blasts, the shadow shrouds, petrification balls, or any of the guitar beams.
  4. Imps, Titan, or the Tower. Dealing with these alone would be hard, but while trying to dodge the other things? No way.
  5. Oh, and flame hair of course!

So that's five rapid fire attacks at minimum, all being launched at you by an invisible, teleporting, and flying opponent who's-when not teleporting-moving at speeds that near the tourney limits. You really think he's dodging it all forever, especially when he's been hit by far slower things?

Fourth, AoE baby! The Stomps and Aura, mainly. The Aura makes it so that you can't even get close without being mauled by magic. One freezes/burns you, one sucks your life and heals me, and the last makes you bow down and pray against your will.

The stomps are just about impossible to dodge, since they hit in all directions at once and travel near instantly. So even if you can somehow close the distance and survive the Aura, you'll just get launched by Lilith slamming her foot to the ground.

Plus there are explosives, which a majority of my weapons are, that are hard to avoid in general.

To summarize.

  • You've been tagged by slower.
  • I have attacks that'll hunt you down to get you.
  • I have spammable attacks I can launch at you like rain while being high in the sky and invisible. Since my ammo is unlimited and I don't have to reload, this will never have to stop and won't until you're dead.
  • He'll be dealing with my summons, which can be anything from suicide bombers to massive tank throwing demon gladiators.
  • AoE will make sure you get hit even if dodge the projectile itself. And if you do somehow close the distance, you'll just be attacked by coldfire or launched away.

Game Plan

It's simple really.

  1. The match starts, Lilith takes high into the sky while invisible and goes towards her opponent.
  2. Once she's above him, she'll unleash some initial attacks. It's possible he dies here.
  3. Assuming he makes it out alive, she'll up the ante. She'll keep adding more weapons and attacking with her various powers until he is tagged and taken out.
  4. Eventually he'll be tagged, due to the reasons listed above.

The best part about this is that Spiderine won't be able to counter attack during any of this. He'll constantly be flipping around and trying to avoid attacks, so trying to actually reach the Maiden of Metal will be the last thing on his mind. Even if he does get a slight break and tries to change the tides, it'll fail. He can't actually reach Lilith while she's dozens of feet above him and he won't be able to keep track while she's invisible. Past that, his only means of long range is webs, which Lilith can avoid or teleport out of. And if he does, against all odds, manage to get past all that and close the distance, you know what will happen? Lilith will activate one of her Aura's and let him die just by getting close, or just Stomp him away.

Conclusion

  • Tagging you isn't a problem.
  • Your range game is weak af and you can't close the distance.
  • You can't sense me unless I'm attacking.
  • You've shown a weakness to mind control.
  • You'll get overwhelmed by my huge arsonal.
  • I can one shot you with a several of my weapons.
  • If you do get close, you'll die from aura or stomp.
  • If you don't get close, you'll die from the literal Hell being rained down on you.
  • You'll die, the end.

Back to you!

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@joewell911:

Ok, so you know you're gonna have to get proof of the things you say, right? It's not that I don't believe you, but it's simple standard practice.

I'd still give Lilith a slight edge. She can flip tanks (25++) just by running into them and overpower people with strength equal to what you've "shown" Peter to be.

Spiderman just does it better. Besides, this isn't a weight lifting contest. It's all about that striking power.

Spiderman has hurt people with superior blunt force trauma resistance than Lilith. Now imagine two invincible claws being backed by that power.

Don't get cocky if ya can't back it up, friendo.

Proof of his combat speed being greater?

Also, combat speed won't matter if you never get close. Your reactions will help, but will get to that later.

Well, considering you haven't given me any combat feats of your own, why should I? Everybody knows Peter is the very best of street levelers in this regard, but I'll bite anyways.

He straight blitzed the bullet timer with senses equivalent to his very own. How about you?

Combat speed matters because you'll be hopeless when you have to get up close an personal with Spiderine.

She can run forever actually, do to her multitude of endurance enhancing upgrades. And if Spiderine never gets close, he'll never have that opportunity.

Gat can tank constant gunfire from all the guns listed in my weapons sections, I'm sure the claws won't be bringing Lilith down quickly.

Spiderine will use his senses to locate her precise location, web her, and then blitz her with his superior combat speed.

Adamantium is superior to every weapon you've shown me, with respect to piercing damage. Tell me, could any of your weapons cut Hulk's skin?

Such as? Come on, get them scans!

Spider Sense negates invisibility? First time I've heard of this. From my knowledge it only notifies Peter of things attacking him, not enemies passive invisibility.

Webbing isn't anywhere near as good as flight, especially in an area like this. There aren't many tall buildings to swing off of, and it's extremely unlikely you're hitting an opponent as fast as me while you're preoccupied with all the things coming at you.

Spiderman beat Nightcrawler. along with several other X Men. I'll find the scans in case you're not already aware.

Yes. You don't know much about Peter, do you? Anything that is so much as a minor threat to Peter will tingle his spider sense, and it transcends a mere danger sense too. He guides himself through New York with it, detect when he is being watched, can tell if someone is lying and, most importantly, alerts him of chicks sunbathing nearby.

I know. But Peter has stopped stronger people than Lilith with his webbing before, combinde with his combat speed and reactions tagging Lilith should be a walk in the park for Spiderine.

See above. Even if what you say is true, mind control has outright worked on Spidey before.

First of all, Mysterio is a superior illusionist then Lilith. Secondly, most recent showing of Spiderman are contradictory of this one low showing.

Even if he breaks out, he'd still be stuck long enough for Lilith to land several other attacks.

And this is assuming she even gets to use this attack before Spiderine guts her.

Oh-ho-ho, that's sooo untrue. But I'll make tagging Spiderine it's own section, since that seems to be such a big part of your argument.

Tanking? I'd like to see that him being able to survive fire that can freeze and burn you at the same time, suicide bombers that explode like grenades, or a straight blast of Holy light. Even if he can survive the various forms of attack that can be created by Lilith, there's things like the Soul, Vamp, and Stone blasts that ignore durability.

Alright. You do that.

Well, Wolverine has alluded to the fact that Laura's healing factor is superior to her own, and we all know what his can do. Really, just so long as his skeleton is intact, he's fine.

Good thing those one shot abilities are way to slow to tag Spiderine.

Why do you think you can tag Lilith with webs? She's perfectly fast in her own right and unlike Lilith, Spiderine doesn't have any gimmicks to land attacks. Even if the webs do hit, Lilith could simply teleport out before you get close and continue her assault.

And now for the sect. you've all been waiting for for the past 1 and a half minute!!

Because he's tagged people faster than her by a considerable amount. Even if she teleports, how well will she be able to adjust to web in her eyes and on every part of her body?

If you read through my introduction post, you can see I have a multitude of means of attack. But none of those will matter because herp derp Spooder sense and sped, right? Wrong.

First off, I'd like to bring up the numerous times Spider Man has been tagged by objects far slower than what I'm dishing out.

A bunch of low showing from a moderately serious Spiderman. Really? That's your best argument? We've already seen what a completely serious Spiderman has done, he's virtually untouchable.

None of those things are particularly fast, and yet they can hit Spidey. So if they can, it's likely some of Lilith's projectiles will land.

Second, many of Lilith's attacks seek or hunt down opponents. The missiles, from Armchair-A-Geddon for example.

Spiderine could use the environment to tank the attacks for him, like nearby trees or cars. He could also reverse the attack on her.

Or the Soul blast. Or the Exodus 10. Or Lil Croaker. All of these follow and seek the target, making it nigh impossible to avoid. Not to mention most of these attack are a OHKO.

Third, I got automatics, bby. I think you seriously underestimate the sheer amount of firepower I have going on. Let me list weapon all can be used at once. (Because we all know how much I love lists.)

Peter has dodged automatic weaponry before. He's dodged Iron Man's lasers as well. Firepower is useless if you can't hit your target.

  1. Armchair-A-Geddon, which I can use while using anything else. This brings twin miniguns, two extremely fast firing weapons, along with volleys of missiles that heat seek targets every couple seconds. Alone, this would be incredibly hard to deal with, but Lilith can sit down on this while using other weapons.
  2. Whatever automatic weapon she feels like using in one hand. This could be something that rains down molten lava, explosive energy balls, insects, diamonds, etc.
  3. Whatever power she feels like using in her other free hand. This could be the soul sucking blasts, the shadow shrouds, petrification balls, or any of the guitar beams.
  4. Imps, Titan, or the Tower. Dealing with these alone would be hard, but while trying to dodge the other things? No way.
  5. Oh, and flame hair of course!

So that's five rapid fire attacks at minimum, all being launched at you by an invisible, teleporting, and flying opponent who's-when not teleporting-moving at speeds that near the tourney limits. You really think he's dodging it all forever, especially when he's been hit by far slower things?

Fourth, AoE baby! The Stomps and Aura, mainly. The Aura makes it so that you can't even get close without being mauled by magic. One freezes/burns you, one sucks your life and heals me, and the last makes you bow down and pray against your will.

The stomps are just about impossible to dodge, since they hit in all directions at once and travel near instantly. So even if you can somehow close the distance and survive the Aura, you'll just get launched by Lilith slamming her foot to the ground.

Plus there are explosives, which a majority of my weapons are, that are hard to avoid in general.

To summarize.

I'll have to resume my response later. I am not finished.

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@bluejay4: Nice so far. Don't forget to tag me when done editing.

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  1. Armchair-A-Geddon, which I can use while using anything else. This brings twin miniguns, two extremely fast firing weapons, along with volleys of missiles that heat seek targets every couple seconds. Alone, this would be incredibly hard to deal with, but Lilith can sit down on this while using other weapons.
  2. Whatever automatic weapon she feels like using in one hand. This could be something that rains down molten lava, explosive energy balls, insects, diamonds, etc.
  3. Whatever power she feels like using in her other free hand. This could be the soul sucking blasts, the shadow shrouds, petrification balls, or any of the guitar beams.
  4. Imps, Titan, or the Tower. Dealing with these alone would be hard, but while trying to dodge the other things? No way.
  5. Oh, and flame hair of course!

So that's five rapid fire attacks at minimum, all being launched at you by an invisible, teleporting, and flying opponent who's-when not teleporting-moving at speeds that near the tourney limits. You really think he's dodging it all forever, especially when he's been hit by far slower things?

Fourth, AoE baby! The Stomps and Aura, mainly. The Aura makes it so that you can't even get close without being mauled by magic. One freezes/burns you, one sucks your life and heals me, and the last makes you bow down and pray against your will.

The stomps are just about impossible to dodge, since they hit in all directions at once and travel near instantly. So even if you can somehow close the distance and survive the Aura, you'll just get launched by Lilith slamming her foot to the ground.

Plus there are explosives, which a majority of my weapons are, that are hard to avoid in general.

To summarize

You know, if we were dealing with any other amalgam, I'd agree with your assessment. That is a crap ton of fire your packing. But this is Spiderine we're dealing with here, someone whose fast enough to become invisible to the naked eye, someone who can dodge automatic fire point blank range, someone who can sense Galactus coming to earth and other similar other worldly events, be it cosmic or otherwise. This isn't your typical bullet timing street leveler you're dealing with here. There will be no holding back; one moment you will be alive, the next you wont. Lilith will never see him coming. It doesn't matter what she throws at him, he has an answer to everything. AoE? No problem, it's called jumping. Invisibility? He can pin point your exact location anywhere on the battle field. Other fodder you want to throw at me? Spiderine takes them out for lunch and back; twice on Monday.

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@joewell911: yup. First counter done. Good luck, and excuse the quality of my posts. I'm trying to get them done on a virus infested computer.

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@bluejay4: Sorry if I sounded condescending in my previous post. Reading over it, I came off kinda douche-y XD

This will probably be last counter for this debate, unless you bring in new arguments in your next post.

Round 2: The Second Coming

Counters

Strength

Spiderman just does it better. Besides, this isn't a weight lifting contest. It's all about that striking power.

Spiderman has hurt people with superior blunt force trauma resistance than Lilith. Now imagine two invincible claws being backed by that power.

I'd consider running into something striking.

Gat can still swat a massive monster truck with enough force to send it flying a couple dozen feet.

No Caption Provided

So I'd still put Lilith a bit above or at least on the same level.

But I guess in the end this category doesn't really matter. Lilith will most likely never have to resort to trying to melee Spiderine, while he'll probably never get close enough to punch her. So it's all moot.

Speed

Well, considering you haven't given me any combat feats of your own, why should I? Everybody knows Peter is the very best of street levelers in this regard, but I'll bite anyways.

He straight blitzed the bullet timer with senses equivalent to his very own. How about you?

Combat speed matters because you'll be hopeless when you have to get up close an personal with Spiderine.

Because when you make claims, you have to back them up. You can't just bank on people's past knowledge because not everyone has that.

I haven't shown many combat speed feats because I haven't said that Lilith is better in that regard. I just asked you to prove you are.

But Lilith will never have to get up close. She can fly fast enough to shake off homing missiles and run fast enough be "practically faster than a speeding bullet."

Now of course this is a hyperbole, but it's it still proves just how much faster Lilith is on foot. With this, there's no reason for her to ever engage in close combat. She'll just run and gun, teleporting away if he does somehow start to close the distance too much, until he eventually screws up and goes down.

Invisibility and Webs

Spiderine will use his senses to locate her precise location, web her, and then blitz her with his superior combat speed.

Adamantium is superior to every weapon you've shown me, with respect to piercing damage. Tell me, could any of your weapons cut Hulk's skin?

Show that he can do that, please.

Why doesn't she just dodge the webs or teleport out of them? She'll never be contained long enough for Spiderine to get close, especially considering the webs wouldn't stop her ghostly flight.

Probably not. I was just showing she does have some sort of piercing resistance that should allow her to not get one shotted.

Spiderman beat Nightcrawler. along with several other X Men. I'll find the scans in case you're not already aware.

Yes. You don't know much about Peter, do you? Anything that is so much as a minor threat to Peter will tingle his spider sense, and it transcends a mere danger sense too. He guides himself through New York with it, detect when he is being watched, can tell if someone is lying and, most importantly, alerts him of chicks sunbathing nearby.

I know. But Peter has stopped stronger people than Lilith with his webbing before, combinde with his combat speed and reactions tagging Lilith should be a walk in the park for Spiderine.

No, I don't know shizz about Peter. It's your job as a debater to educate me and the rest of the readers of these things. That's the whole point.

Ok, good for him. Now can you show me him using it to find a specific invisible target? I know he can sense threats, so he'll be well aware of all the attacks coming at him, but can he find the source of all these or find her when she stops attacking?

What? Combat speed and reactions don't change the fact that Lilith could avoid the webs. Spiderine's stats don't change the relative slowness of the webs. And even if she was tagged, she could get out in a moments notice with her teleportation.

Telepathy

First of all, Mysterio is a superior illusionist then Lilith. Secondly, most recent showing of Spiderman are contradictory of this one low showing.

How so? Ember is a pop star known all around world with millions of fans that she controls every concert she does. She has forced entire crowds of people into a raging fit and her control could make Danny Phantom, who's a pretty strong willed individual, fall in love with her. She's at least on par with Mysterio.

Also, could you show me that feat, please? Because often times in order to break out of mind control, characters receive some sort of outside help or other stimulus.

Even if this is all true, this isn't even vital to my plan. It's just one of the many ways Lilith can win.

Healing and Teleportation

Well, Wolverine has alluded to the fact that Laura's healing factor is superior to her own, and we all know what his can do. Really, just so long as his skeleton is intact, he's fine.

Good thing those one shot abilities are way to slow to tag Spiderine.

Eh, can't heal from having your soul consumed.

And I'd still like to see Laura healing from attacks as powerful as Lilith's in such rapid succession.

We've talked about tagging and it'll happen at some point.

Because he's tagged people faster than her by a considerable amount. Even if she teleports, how well will she be able to adjust to web in her eyes and on every part of her body?

Proof?

The webs wouldn't come with her when she teleports. So she'd be fine.

Tagging

A bunch of low showing from a moderately serious Spiderman. Really? That's your best argument? We've already seen what a completely serious Spiderman has done, he's virtually untouchable.

You can't just call everything against your character a low showing. By that same logic I could call any feat you provide a high showing, and we'd get nowhere that way.

My point was, Peter gets tagged all the time. Yes, he's agile. Yes, he's fast. But he's able to get hit. Especially by attacks that are unorthodox and unexpected, which pretty much describes my arsonal.

We haven't seen what a completely serious Spider-Man has done, you haven't shown that at all. And it's not like he's completely serious here. He'll play the same way he does in all his other fights because he has no reason not to.

Spiderine could use the environment to tank the attacks for him, like nearby trees or cars. He could also reverse the attack on her.

How are you going to use the environment to stop a swarm of bugs or a intangible soul-eating ball? It might work on the missiles, but he'd still have to take extra time to formulate and use that strategy, and in that time he's A. Not attacking and B. Not focusing on avoiding the dozens of other attacks coming for him.

Peter has dodged automatic weaponry before. He's dodged Iron Man's lasers as well. Firepower is useless if you can't hit your target.

But of this amount, variety, and intensity? I want to see it.

You know, if we were dealing with any other amalgam, I'd agree with your assessment. That is a crap ton of fire your packing. But this is Spiderine we're dealing with here, someone whose fast enough to become invisible to the naked eye, someone who can dodge automatic fire point blank range, someone who can sense Galactus coming to earth and other similar other worldly events, be it cosmic or otherwise. This isn't your typical bullet timing street leveler you're dealing with here. There will be no holding back; one moment you will be alive, the next you wont. Lilith will never see him coming. It doesn't matter what she throws at him, he has an answer to everything. AoE? No problem, it's called jumping. Invisibility? He can pin point your exact location anywhere on the battle field. Other fodder you want to throw at me? Spiderine takes them out for lunch and back; twice on Monday.

So basically you win because your Spiderine, right? I mean c'mon, you can come up with something better than that.

You've yet to show anything saying your character can deal with this much firepower. Even the feats you've mentioned, not actually shown, don't touch what you need for this. Dodging automatic gunfire is a fraction of what you'll need to avoid all Lilith's weaponry. Becoming FTE can only happen in burst and isn't his consistent speed, so he'll still be outran and outgunned. And until you show his senses detecting an invisible person, he's not going to be able to her.

What? How is jumping gonna... Look at this.

No Caption Provided

It's not something that only travels over the ground, but in all directions. If you're near, you're getting hit.

And what about the Auras? You can avoid those unless you just don't get near. Which isn't something you can control because Lilith has a massive travel speed advantage. So what's stopping her from just activating Coldfire or Vamp then either letting Spiderine get close or running up to him herself for an instant death?

I don't doubt Spiderine could kill the fodder. But he couldn't do so while dealing with everyone else. The Imps alone would pose a problem, as he'd have to forcefully detonate them before they got close, hard when you're busy dodging the hundreds of other things. The Tower adds even more projectiles, this time raining down from the sky and summoning tentacles from below, both of which are hard to not get hit by. Then the Titan, a tank throwing, bullet resistant, beast who could give Spidey a run for his money on his own. Trying to fend it off while having Lilith as raining down attacks would be impossible for Spiderine.

All in all, it's just too much. Just read my other conclusion, really.