IW Thor vs. CW Superman/Martian Manhunter

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GeorgeWBush

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Current J’onn

Morals off for All fighters

Who wins

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RampageTheFirst

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Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

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RBT

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Either solo.

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JDogg

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@rbt said:

Either solo.

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ProteusXManRxis

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Team.

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deactivated-5e46df20c7e13

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Thor easily, CW Superman and MM are both continuously outclassed by Supergirl in terms of both speed and strength.

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Jexsu

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Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

Morals off doesn't equate to bloodlusted.

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Perpetr8rMike

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I would like to point out Manhunter can't read or influence the mind of everyone he meets. In fact he can't seem to read or influence the minds of Kryptonians. So its entirely possible he couldn't read or influence Thor in this case.
Without TP I can't see either of them doing much against IW Thor. Since both have a very 'Tackle, grapple, and punch' style to them Thor's lightning cloak would cause issues for them as lightning course through there body. While Supergirl was not seriously hurt by Livewire, her electricity did seem to cause discomfort and knocked her around including through walls. And Thor's is a lot more powerful than simple grid electricity. And of course its magical lightning so it bypasses their defensive abilities.
For superman I could see it causing pain, minimal damage, and stunning him. Allowing Thor to land a blow with Stormbreaker. With his normal defense being to tank or block blows rather than dodge or parry Superman would either be unable to react or would throw up his arm to block the blade. The blade would cleave through his forearm and into his collarbone area burying it deep into his upper chest and neck area. A fatal blow.

For J'onn it would matter if he could enter his mind or not. If Asgardian minds can't be read by J'onn (As Kryptonians can't) then he loses a big edge in this fight. As he is inferior in durability and strength to Supergirl let alone Superman. Phasing would be a problem too due to the lightning cloak disrupting the molecule's electron bonds. And I don't think we have seen J'onn strong enough to overcome Thor. And with the same thing, the electrical energy causes him to be briefly stunned allowing Thor to land a killing blow.

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RR79

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#9  Edited By RR79

@perpetr8rmike: One thing, Livewire literally KOed Supergirl with her "lightning".

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RBT

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Thor easily, CW Superman and MM are both continuously outclassed by Supergirl in terms of both speed and strength.

Not true in Superman's case. His fight with Kara was extremely even and Kara barely won.

Regardless, why does it matter here when Kara outclasses Thor in speed and strength as well?

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RampageTheFirst

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@jexsu said:
@rampagethefirst said:

Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

Morals off doesn't equate to bloodlusted.

Yes it does.

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: It matters when their strength means nothing as they can't get close. And when they do they eat lightning.

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Jexsu

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@jexsu said:
@rampagethefirst said:

Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

Morals off doesn't equate to bloodlusted.

Yes it does.

No, it doesn't. Morals off means a character would use anything in their arsenal of weapons, skills, powers to win a battle. Bloodlusted means the desire to kill.

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RampageTheFirst

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@jexsu: Morals off means the character isn't holding back and would kill without thinking twice, Bloodlust means the same thing. It's either morals off or morals on, you can use the term bloodlusted instead of morals off.

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Jexsu

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@jexsu:

Morals off means the character isn't holding back and would kill without thinking twice, Bloodlust means the same thing. It's either morals off or morals on, you can use the term bloodlusted instead of morals off.

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Hm. For the longest time, I treated them as different meanings. Oh well.

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RR79

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@jexsu:

Morals off means the character isn't holding back and would kill without thinking twice, Bloodlust means the same thing. It's either morals off or morals on, you can use the term bloodlusted instead of morals off.

No Caption Provided

Morals off absolutely does NOT mean bloodlusted. Morals off means they are willing to kill if needed, not that they are specifically going for the kill. Bloodlusted means they are going for the kill right away.

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RBT

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@rbt: It matters when their strength means nothing as they can't get close. And when they do they eat lightning.

Strength mean nothing? And why can't they get close? Which character has ever failed to get close to Thor who had comparable durability to that of a CW Kryptonian? Which character has Thor's lightning knocked out who had comparable durability to that of a CW Kryptonian?

Not that Superman needs to get close to win this anyway.

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: Considering a metahuman KOed a Kryptonian with basic electricity I would say that is a series issue.
Not to mention Silver Banshee punched Supergirl and casually knocked her over a dozen feet away. Supergirl has defeated both Superman and Martian Manhunter in battle. So yeah if basic electricity and a metahuman punch can rag doll Supergirl they can do that to her cousin.

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RBT

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@perpetr8rmike:

Considering a metahuman KOed a Kryptonian with basic electricity I would say that is a series issue.

Backward logic. That's a feat for metahuman and not an anti feat for Kara. Plus, that 'metahuman' had absorbed entire electricity of National City and was amped by speed force lightening just a couple seconds before. Context is important.

Not to mention Silver Banshee punched Supergirl and casually knocked her over a dozen feet away.

And? Etiri punched and knocked Thor over a dozen feet away. Why does it matter? If you're trying to lowball, at least do it properly.

Supergirl has defeated both Superman and Martian Manhunter in battle. So yeah if basic electricity and a metahuman punch can rag doll Supergirl they can do that to her cousin.

Liverwire's electricity was basic and Thor's is premium. Got it.

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RR79

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@rbt: We've had this discussion before about Livewires electricity. Do I really need to dust off the screenshots and video's again showing how weak Livewires electricity was compared to Thors?

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RBT

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@rr79 said:

@rbt: We've had this discussion before about Livewires electricity. Do I really need to dust off the screenshots and video's again showing how weak Livewires electricity was compared to Thors?

No. I would rather not go through that bs again.

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RR79

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@rbt said:
@rr79 said:

@rbt: We've had this discussion before about Livewires electricity. Do I really need to dust off the screenshots and video's again showing how weak Livewires electricity was compared to Thors?

No. I would rather not go through that bs again.

You not liking what it shows doesn't make it BS. Just makes you biased.

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RBT

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@rr79 said:
@rbt said:
@rr79 said:

@rbt: We've had this discussion before about Livewires electricity. Do I really need to dust off the screenshots and video's again showing how weak Livewires electricity was compared to Thors?

No. I would rather not go through that bs again.

You not liking what it shows doesn't make it BS. Just makes you biased.

Okay

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: Yes it is. Livewire in her initial appearance also threw Kara around and pinned her down with her electricity.
How many volts are in a bolt of lightning
The wall AC we use is 120 volts to be clear.
Also to be clear Volts really don't matter is the amps that do the work.
Lightning bolts hit with an amperage of around 20,0000 to 30,000 (It takes between 100 and 200 mA to kill you)
around 200 mA is what your house produces through its wiring especially if its a newer model house.

A lightning bolt is a lot stronger than the current we run through our power grid is the meaning of Basic and not. Livewire is using electricity that is already present to gain strength and attack with. Thor is manufacturing it from his own body.
Since we see in his bridge fight on Asgard in Ragnarok his lightning cloak was causing sheering red wounds on opponents struck by the lightning implying it is indeed as hot as a lightning bolt can get which is 50,000 degrees or so. While not massive, it was causing damage, while the electricity we see Livewire use, didn't even really damage the computer hit with it when she was sniping at Kat Grant but it still pinned down Kara for a moment or two.

Also Silver Banshee has no strength based powers. So her punching a Kryptonian a dozen feet is funny given this means she has typical human strength. Dwarfs in Asgard are forge masters and are known to possess superhuman strength to lift such heavy loads, at least in the comic. Also Banshee turned Kara to her before winding back to punch Kara in the face to send her flying. Etri bullrushed Thor from behind and toppled him over. This is hardly the same kind of feat.

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RBT

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@perpetr8rmike: You realize Kara has tanked lightening before, right?

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: The fact she struggled with Livewire for even a moment is an interesting thing to bring up as her electricity was clearly not in the range of power a lightning bolt could put out. She was absorbing electricity from the grid to maintain her 'charge' so she couldn't absorb more than the grid provided.

And no I didn't. Not that is would matter. Kryptonians have a durability to mundane things. However, Kryptonite and Magic bypass those defenses rendering them as mortal and normal against them as anyone else. Thor's lightning is magical in nature and thus would ignore their superhuman durability. The fact that typical city power can down Supergirl who has been shown to be stronger and more durable than Superman or J'onn shows even with durability its an issue.

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RBT

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@perpetr8rmike:

The fact she struggled with Livewire for even a moment is an interesting thing to bring up as her electricity was clearly not in the range of power a lightning bolt could put out. She was absorbing electricity from the grid to maintain her 'charge' so she couldn't absorb more than the grid provided.

Okay, so Kara tanked natural lightening and got knocked out by Livewire after she absorbed entire grid and was amped by speed force lightening. But Livewire's lightening was less powerful than the lightening bolt Kara had already tanked? Does that really make sense to you?

Thor's lightning is magical in nature and thus would ignore their superhuman durability. The fact that typical city power can down Supergirl who has been shown to be stronger and more durable than Superman or J'onn shows even with durability its an issue.

Thor isn't magic. Not in MCU.

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RampageTheFirst

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@rr79 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@jexsu:

Morals off means the character isn't holding back and would kill without thinking twice, Bloodlust means the same thing. It's either morals off or morals on, you can use the term bloodlusted instead of morals off.

No Caption Provided

Morals off absolutely does NOT mean bloodlusted. Morals off means they are willing to kill if needed, not that they are specifically going for the kill. Bloodlusted means they are going for the kill right away.

It clearly says in the rules that you can either use "Morals off" or even bloodlusted, it's literally just another way of using the term...

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: Yeah it means bad writing, not my problem.
Kara was pinned down by Livewire amped on only normal city electrical grid electricity no speed force needed.

And yes Thor is still magic in the MCU. They state in Thor 1 that what mortals perceive as science and magic are the same thing to Asgardians, this does not remove magic from their abilities just that they seem to fuse the two. Also yeah they have outright stated he was the God of Thunder and stressed that point through Ragnarok, yeah he is magic.

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RBT

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@perpetr8rmike: So, Kara tanking natural lightning means nothing(or is PIS) because she was downed by Liverwire who had enough power inside of her to power up a huge Metropolitan on TOP of being amped by speed force energy?

Asgardians are aliens in MCU. They don't use magic. They use technologies so advanced it looks like magic. Unless they retconned that, which I don't think they did.

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Perpetr8rMike

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@rbt: I think you are misunderstanding me or just not very well informed. Livewire appeared before the Crossover with Flash. When she pinned down Supergirl. She was strictly using her own power. And the most she had blacked out was a floor of Kat Grant's building. Season 1 Episode 4 if you need to do your homework.

And again. Thor states to Asgardians science and magic are the same thing. I am going off the character who is Asgardian and has been living there for 1500 years... I am gonna assume he know what he is talking about given that he can produce electricity from his body with no seeming means of generating that much energy out of nowhere.

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RR79

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@rr79 said:
@rampagethefirst said:

@jexsu:

Morals off means the character isn't holding back and would kill without thinking twice, Bloodlust means the same thing. It's either morals off or morals on, you can use the term bloodlusted instead of morals off.

No Caption Provided

Morals off absolutely does NOT mean bloodlusted. Morals off means they are willing to kill if needed, not that they are specifically going for the kill. Bloodlusted means they are going for the kill right away.

It clearly says in the rules that you can either use "Morals off" or even bloodlusted, it's literally just another way of using the term...

The three terms are separated. As I said before Morals off means you are willing to kill if needed. Bloodlusted means you are going for the kill right away. If they had meant them to be the same term the rules would have read like "This means "Morals on" or "Morals off"(or bloodlusted).

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RBT

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@perpetr8rmike:

I think you are misunderstanding me or just not very well informed. Livewire appeared before the Crossover with Flash. When she pinned down Supergirl. She was strictly using her own power. And the most she had blacked out was a floor of Kat Grant's building. Season 1 Episode 4 if you need to do your homework.

No thanks. How about you go back and watch the episode again? Whole National City was suffering from blackouts. Not only that, IIRC, Leslie had also absorbed Kara's heat vision during one of their fight. So, electricity to power a massive city, a lightening bolt and Kara's heat vision. And Kara still fought through her attacks and beat her. Literally the only time she has been KOed by Liverwire when she was amped further by speed force.

Thor is not doing jack to her with his lightening.

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deactivated-5bdbf1dc6fdcc

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John removes his heart and for fun removes him all memories and will work for DEO to end of his life

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deactivated-5e49375365792

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Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

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Batvibe12

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Team.

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RampageTheFirst

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#40  Edited By RampageTheFirst

Lol, Kara being weaker than Hulk and Hela..never laughed harder.

Also;

@rampagethefirst said:

Bloodlusted MMH solo's.

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rem

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#42  Edited By rem

MMH blitzes just like he did to Kara, or drops him with TP.

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RampageTheFirst

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#43  Edited By RampageTheFirst

@matthew660: Crushing Thor's hammer is an unquantifiable feat. Kara has strength feats that far outclass both, Hulk and Hela. Hela is stronger than Ragnarok Thor, who didn't resist the full force of a neutron star. All of those feats you listed of Supergirl are from Season 1. Also, flagged, you're not even making it hard for the mods, which I appreciate :)

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RampageTheFirst

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@matthew660: Did I say he wasn't? and that's a durability feat lol. Also, I like how you couldn't counter any of my arguments on the other thread and got humiliated so you start throwing a tantrum whenever I tag you, it's nice.

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RampageTheFirst

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@matthew660: Dude, you're obviously throwing a tantrum because everyone is humiliating you lol, you're obviously incapable of arguing rationally so you go around throwing insults and swiping everyone's arguments to the left and labelling them as invalid, you're also extremely misinformed about 90% of the characters involved in threads. You also seem to think durability and strength are somehow the same thing lol and I'm not biased, you are. It's painfully obvious.

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xMangog__Beastx

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RampageTheFirst

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@matthew660: Thor wasn't holding the Neutron Star open, Jesus, are you dense? Did you even watch the movie? Look, address my post on "that" thread so I can humiliate you once again, stop derailing this thread if you can't make a case for Thor.