Itachi vs Nagato

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#1 Edited by Revold (934 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: Kid versions

R2: Living Prime versions

R3: Edo Tensei versions

BR: Healthy versions

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#2 Posted by LichVanAstrea (1496 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi only wins the first round.

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#5 Posted by LichVanAstrea (1496 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Itachi would win in a fight but I don't think it's a stomp, Nagato was trained pretty well by Jiraiya. Not to mention his Rinnegan could come into play.

Round 2: Nagato.

Round 3: Nagato bodies, it took Edo Itachi, Bee, and KCM Naruto to match Edo Nagato. Itachi alone gets annihilated.

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#7 Posted by Mr-Otaku (1012 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi loses badly.

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#8 Edited by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

R1: Itachi in a close fight

R2: Itachi mid diff. (Unless this is the paths of pain) at which point I say Itachi high-diff like 9.9/10 diff. (Even on Itachi’s literal death bed, he had a long drug out battle using all of his MS abilities) mind you he could’ve one-shot Sasuke at any moment if he decided. This is the same Sasuke>Deidara.

R3: Itachi stomps. His only weakness is erased in edo. As soon as Nagato used CT, the very next panel Itachi had the “?!?!” Thought bubble and IMMEDIATELY knew how to counter it. And to stop CT all you have to do is rupture the center core. So if instead of waiting to calm down Naruto and then explain to him and Killer Bee how to stop CT, had he just thrown a lightning charged kunai at the exposed CT core, he would’ve stopped it. ST won’t harm an edo, when it didn’t even harm Tsunade who doesn’t have a Susanno or anything like that. She wasn’t damaged beyond scratches, and she didn’t even heal herself. She literally tanked it. So, ST defenitely isn’t hurting an edo that has a Susanno. Nagato’s only hope really is soul rip, but after watching Naruto swap hands with KCM Naruto, Nagato isn’t doin so well against Itachi H2H.

Also, when it comes to Nagato stopping Itachi’s moves, it’s just not happening. Nagato has no response for Amaterasu. He has no response for totsuka blade. Nor does he have anything getting through yasaka mirror. Tsukiyomi unstoppable. Kotoamatsukiyomi unstoppable. Honestly, Nagato gets wrecked just like he did in the manga while protecting Bee and Naruto throughout the entire fight, just like he did with Sasuke when he fought Kabuto later. I’ve never understood how this is even a discussion

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#9 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr-otaku:

Please explain. Cause on every other thread I’ve been on, after discussing feats. Nagato has no way of dealing with Itachi, whereas Itachi has multiple for dealing with Nagato.

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#10 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

I completely disagree. Kid Nagato was for all intent and purposes a cry baby. He was not a fighter. When angered he could fight, but it wasn’t controlled at all. Anyone with a little skill or brain steem-rolled him. Kid Itachi stomps, he was fighting alongside Shisui against high ranking jonin (Anbu members). He took down the supposedly “Strongest” Anbu member. No way Nagato is even close to competing here.

And as far as edo goes, Itachi passed up multiple instances to seal Nagato just to save B and Naruto. If anything, Bee and Naruto were a handicap for Itachi. Kinda like Sasuke was against Kabuto.

And I don’t see healthy versions turning out any different than their edo fight. I see Itachi running all over him and Nagato having no defense for Itachi.

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#11 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: Nagato improved greatly after his training with Jiraiya though, and I'm assuming that's the version we're using. Not to mention the fact that the Rinnegan is a major factor, even if Nagato couldn't really control it yet. If Itachi doesn't kill him in one attack he runs the risk of dying. I do agree Itachi should win this round overall though.

Nagato was against three people, one of which was superior to Itachi physically. So even if that's true he's only facing Itachi here so it's not like he's going just turn his back to him. Not to mention the fact that Itachi started that fight on his side with Naruto and Bee capable of reacting to anything he did, and Naruto wasn't even serious. The second Nagato was able to move on his own he started destroying everyone. I also fail to see how KCM Naruto and Bee were handicaps for Itachi when they're the only reason he could counter CT to begin with, unless Itachi's jutsu are massively superior to Bijuudama and FRS now? Just because he knows how to stop it doesn't mean he has the firepower to, otherwise he would have done it on his own.

Nagato is far from defenseless, Shinra Tensei counters Amaterasu and he can absorb any other jutsu thrown at him. As for ripping his soul out I see no reason he can't do that considering he can do it to Naruto who is faster, and even if you argue he's around Naruto's speed, he still did it to Naruto so he can do it to Itachi.

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#12 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

“Nagato improved greatly after his training with Jiraiya though, and I'm assuming that's the version we're using. Not to mention the fact that the Rinnegan is a major factor, even if Nagato couldn't really control it yet. If Itachi doesn't kill him in one attack he runs the risk of dying. I do agree Itachi should win this round overall though” - I agree 100% he got stronger after training with Jiraiya. But up until Yahiko died, Nagato was a really meek person, and that was well after Nagato could’ve been considered a kid.

“Nagato was against three people, one of which was superior to Itachi physically. So even if that's true he's only facing Itachi here so it's not like he's going just turn his back to him. Not to mention the fact that Itachi started that fight on his side with Naruto and Bee capable of reacting to anything he did(and Naruto wasn't even serious). The second Nagato was able to move on his own he started destroying everyone. I also fail to see how KCM Naruto and Bee were handicaps for Itachi when they're the only reason he could counter CT to begin with, unless Itachi's jutsu are massively superior to Bijuudama and FRS now? Just because he knows how to stop it doesn't mean he has the firepower to, otherwise he would have done it on his own.” - Technically, Nagato never turned his back to Itachi. He had his linked vision through his summons, which is how he was able to catch Killer Bee in that scinerio. Itachi stopped the linked vision, and instead of dealing Nagato right then and there. He decided to go ahead and save Naruto and Killer Bee by cutting off Nagato’s arms. When he was “Set Free” he was only destroying Bee and Naruto, Kabuto took direct control over him after Itachi cut his arms off so Kabuto could use CT. And never suggested Itachi was more powerful than Bijuu bomb and RS put together. I only said, “When Itachi figures out how to destroy CT, it was still just a core, it wouldn’t have taken more than a lightning enhanced kunai to destroy (All you have to do is RUPTURE the center core to dispel it). But suggesting Bee and Naruto helped in that fight is almost like suggesting Naruto and Sasuke helped against Zabuza (First encounter) the majority of the fight Kakashi was guarding and protecting them. Just because he has the ability to stop it on his own, doesn’t mean he has to take the chance when Killer Bee and Naruto well-being were at stake.

“Nagato is far from defenseless, Shinra Tensei counters Amaterasu and he can absorb any other jutsu thrown at him. As for ripping his soul out I see no reason he can't do that considering he can do it to Naruto who is faster, and even if you argue he's around Naruto's speed, he still did it to Naruto so he can do it to Itachi.” - Well, with ST, Nagato has to wait 5 seconds to use it again. Whereas Itachi can keep hitting him with Amaterasu (Which is literally the most OP technique for fighting Nagato). It ignites on sight, so it has no travel (The only way Nagato has ever absorbed a jutsu was via force-field, therefor absorbing it is not an option since it’s hitting his skin directly). And based on everything I mentioned earlier, Nagato has no way of getting close to Itachi like that, thanks to Susanno, Amaterasu being long range, etc. And all of this is without even mentioning his most hax abilities, Tsukiyomi, Izanami, and

Kotoamatsukiyomi.

I honestly see no way of Nagato winning. Look, I used to be on your side. Go back and watch the edo fight on YouTube. The whole time Itachi is on screen against Nagato, he’s running all over him. And if you think about their abilities, Itachi’s are a bunch of one-shots that are almost perfect counters for taking down Nagato.

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#13 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato bodies, the only round that is close is the first, and Nagato still has a chance of winning that one.

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#14 Posted by DevoidRuby (616 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato only loses round 1.

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#15 Posted by Skrskr (3929 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi all rounds

Nagato has no relevant feats of his own accord, he didn’t do anything until he absorbed a full chakra meal from a fully cloaked bee something he would not have access to on his own.

There is literally no basis of nagato winning of his own non amped feats.

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#16 Posted by Co-Boss (735 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr: nagatos hair going from white to red and regaining the ability to walk was to just show that he regained his former health not that he was amped. His edo tensei feats we're unamped. Also he has some feats against Hanzo who fought all the sanin by himself.

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#17 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr said:

Itachi all rounds

Nagato has no relevant feats of his own accord, he didn’t do anything until he absorbed a full chakra meal from a fully cloaked bee something he would not have access to on his own.

There is literally no basis of nagato winning of his own non amped feats.

Edo's have essentially infinite chakra, absorbing that Chakra only healed his legs, so this argument only applies to round 3, when he can't use his legs. I don't think it matters though since Nagato's summons are more than capable of protecting and evading Itachi, not to mention that Itachi has 0 counter to CT of which he's not destroying without Naruto and Bee's assistance.

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#18 Posted by Skrskr (3929 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va: you are saying Alive nagato is above a full 8 tails cloak? There is 0 basis for that statement.

Edo have unlimited stamina which alows them to constantly create chakra, it does not change the amount of chakra they have access to, but absorbing tailed beast chakra would.

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#19 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr said:

@sup3rn0va: you are saying Alive nagato is above a full 8 tails cloak? There is 0 basis for that statement.

No but this is irrelevant because Alive Itachi isn't above a full 8 tails cloak either.

Edo have unlimited stamina which alows them to constantly create chakra, it does not change the amount of chakra they have access to, but absorbing tailed beast chakra would.

And Nagato being an Uzumaki would have access to a shit ton of chakra

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#20 Posted by Skrskr (3929 posts) - - Show Bio

@co-boss: so you are saying nagato is above a full 8 tails cloak? Or that absorbing a full 8 tails cloak provides 0 amp for him? He has 0 feats alive that back him being on the level of a fully cloaked bee.

Absorbing that much tailed beast chakra is an amp any way you look at it.

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#21 Posted by Skrskr (3929 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va: I never said itachi was, you are saying nagato absorbing a ton of tailed beast chakra just brought him back to base.

That’s a ridiculous statement any way you look at it, absorbing that much tailed beast chakra qualifies as an amp unless he has feats on this level previously which he doesn’t.

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#22 Posted by ourmanuel (13023 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi loses all round except 1

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#23 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: Yeah that's true for kid Nagato I'll admit.

Yeah he saved them, but that was partially plot. Bee could have easily went Bijuu Mode and saved them both by breaking Nagato's grip or Naruto could have used more chakra arms to disrupt the ground Nagato was standing on. Bee and Naruto had more options than Sasuke did against SM Kabuto, they just never used them for some reason(hell, Naruto even forgot all of Nagato's powers and how they worked for no reason at all). As for CT, Itachi's elemental releases are water and fire(I've never seen him use lightning anyway) but I get what you're saying. The only problem with that is, like I said, if that's all it took to interrupt CT why didn't he just do so and then tell Naruto and Bee, "By the way guys I stopped it by infusing a kunai with my element and tossing it in, do that next time you see it, ok?" Instead he tells them to use their most powerful ranged jutsu, so it likely isn't as easy as tossing a kunai at it.

Amaterasu is something Itachi didn't spam while he was alive, in fact he didn't use it unless he absolutely needed to since it taxed his MS so much. In Edo sure but Nagato didn't seem to be too bothered by it and either way he's able to push the flames off and even extend it to attack Itachi while defending himself. Not only that but since he is able to keep up with(and is likely faster than) KCM Naruto and Bee, he should be able to dodge it since guys like Ay and Gaara can do so. For any other jutsu Itachi has aside from genjutsu he can absorb, even while he's using other Rinnegan powers. When it comes to genjutsu he can just close his eyes and see through his summons.

I don't think Koto is standard for Itachi though, especially since it takes a ton of prep. Either way if this were the SPOP I'd give Itachi the win but I believe Nagato himself is too much since he can utilize the Rinnegan better.

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#24 Edited by MuratDemir (519 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure about their kid versions, but Nagato takes all other rounds. I mean, the guy trashed KCM 1 Naruto and Killer Bee at the same time. WHILE BEING CONTROLLED. Even Sharingan Sasuke managed to fight Itachi. Sasuke without Mangekyo, gets rekt by Sage Mode Naruto, who gets rekt by KCM 1 Naruto, who gets rekt by unstopable Nagato. Even a weakened Deva Path managed to rekt Toad Summons with absolute ease. Nagato is far, far stronger than that. Kurama may stand a chance, all though he still gets rekt by Nagato's Cho Shinra Tensei.

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#25 Posted by NarutoUzumakiMedakaKurokami (504 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi wins at round 1 and gets death by all round. There's no way Ita can beat to Nag in One on One. Ita need help Naru and Bee to beat him.

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#26 Posted by MuratDemir (519 posts) - - Show Bio

@narutouzumakimedakakurokami: Naruto and Killer Bee is not enough. The only reason Nagato was beaten, is because he was controlled by Kabuto.

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#27 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

“. The only problem with that is, like I said, if that's all it took to interrupt CT why didn't he just do so and then tell Naruto and Bee, ”

- Same reason you said Bee and Naruto didn’t get out the grip. PLOT. Itachi saw how to destroy in the next panel of Nagato casting it. Literally any high lvl piercing jutsu would’ve stopped it. I see no reason why totsuka blade couldn’t have just cut it up like Sasuke did to Madara’s. Itachi also has yasa Magatama to take it out as well.

On Itachi’s literal death bed, he used it 3 times against Sasuke as well as spamming fire style jutsu along with shadow clones. And you can’t use his fights with Sasuke or Jiraiya for proof. He was on their side, Jiraiya had no way to stop Amaterasu. (It would’ve killed him Itachi couldn’t have used that on him). Itachi is the one-shot King. No jutsu he uses is stoppable, Amaterasu (Unless you’re faster than MS sight or have ST) each of which are impossible feats to accomplish. Tsukiyomi (Sharingan plus being an Uchiha is the only way to disrupt it) hell he actually cast it on a couple of Uchiha with sharingan. Totsuka blade , no one in the series that’s seen it has stopped it (Oro, Nagato). Izanami (Stopped Kabuto who was literally impervious to genjutsu Eyes closed, ears covered and he was impervious to physical attacks, body was liquid). Kotoamatsukiyomi

“When it comes to genjutsu he can just close his eyes and see through his summons.” - Actually a good argument, but if Itachi was able to get Kabuto (Who literally made his body and fought specifically defense against genjutsu) with genjutsu, Nagato has no chance, he eventually gets caught. Nagato can’t absorb Amaterasu, we’ve been over this. Nagato only absorbs jutsu through force-field and Amaterasu by-passes that.

I disagree with SPOP fairing worse. They can revive themselves and all 6 are fast and strong enough to compete with Itachi. It’s like 6 clones that you have to kill each have superior physical stats.

I say Itachi vs Nagato- Itachi 6/10 diff

Itachi vs SPOP - Itachi 9.9/10 diff

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#28 Posted by deactivated-5d39a38bf2071 (1018 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi solos all

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#29 Posted by Rabii99 (1994 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi round 1. Nagato 2 and 3.

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#30 Posted by Namebk (1643 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato in a good fight.

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#31 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: You can't really use plot for Itachi when in Naruto and Bee's case they had established that they are capable of doing what I mentioned just prior to this fight, in fact talking about Naruto I don't even remember him even using a shadow clone, which would have helped stop that situation from happening. As for Sasuke cutting Madara's CT meteors, all he did was cut them to pieces after they had already formed. Totsuka Blade might be able to cut Nagato's but I remember it being pretty high up in the air. Also if Yasaka Beads were enough Itachi wouldn't have needed Naruto and Bee and he would have just destroyed it himself. And just so you don't think I'm trying to lowball Itachi, I think the only reason they busted it so easily was Bee's Bijuudama, not FRS or Yasaka Beads. They helped but Bee likely did the most.

It still taxes his MS and Nagato can still dodge it or counter it with Shinra Tensei. If Ay can dodge it then so can Nagato considering he kept up with two people who are just as fast(and in Naruto's case faster) than the Raikage. Totsuka Blade would work but I honestly feel like Nagato could absorb it.

To be fair Kabuto was incredibly cocky(I mean he spent a good part of that fight talking about how great he was) and Itachi took advantage of the fact he was an Edo to help set up Izanami. Of course he could always set it up differently but I honestly question its effectiveness on Nagato after Naruto's Talk no Jutsu helped him go back to the right path again. And even then I don't see why he can't counter genjutsu with the method I mentioned before.

Wait, you say you disagree about SPOP doing worse against Itachi but then you give him the fight 9.9/10 times? I'm confused, because I was claiming it beating them would be easier for Itachi than Nagato himself. So I don't see where we disagree there.

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#32 Posted by kgb725 (19887 posts) - - Show Bio

@skrskr said:

Itachi all rounds

Nagato has no relevant feats of his own accord, he didn’t do anything until he absorbed a full chakra meal from a fully cloaked bee something he would not have access to on his own.

There is literally no basis of nagato winning of his own non amped feats.

He just summons the Gedo mazo and calls it a day. All of Pains feats translate to Nagato

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#33 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

“You can't really use plot for Itachi when in Naruto and Bee's case they had established that they are capable of doing what I mentioned just prior to this fight” - You’re telling me that Itachi doesn’t have a single jutsu that has piercing damage equivalent to that of a lightning laced kunai? Cause you literally just have to rupture the center core... in other words crack the center core. And Itachi realized how to destroy in the very next panel after it was released!! Are you being serious right now?? How was that not plot??

“It still taxes his MS and Nagato can still dodge it or counter it with Shinra Tensei. If Ay can dodge it then so can Nagato considering he kept up with two people who are just as fast(and in Naruto's case faster) than the Raikage. Totsuka Blade would work but I honestly feel like Nagato could absorb it.” - No, Ay literally laughs at Nagato. Nagato can’t run in case you forgot!! Even edo Nagato never ran. Itachi has to carry him for Christ sake and you’re telling me he’s as fast as A?? GTFOH that’s the craziest wank I’ve heard in a while!! Nagato is slower than anyone in Naruto that can run again, he literally has no way to defend against AMATERASU!

Saying Nagato could absorb Totsuka blade or Yata mirror is like saying Nagato can now absorb SOSP Rods! He can’t he literally got killed by Totsuka blade and if he could’ve he would’ve feats suggest he can’t I’m not gonna listen to head canon.

I strongly disagree that Izanami would be harder to set up against Nagato than it would someone who literally has all of the best of the Kekkei genkai at his disposal. Not to mention SM stacked on top of everything. So no, I don’t see the basis for what you were talking about. Kabuto literally controlled the very ground Otachi walked on yet he still got Kabuto with it.

When I say 9.9/10 diff. I’m saying on a scale of 1-10 and 1/10 being a super easy win. A 9.9/10 means virtual hell to win. Nagato himself would be a mid diff 6/10. Feel like Itachi won’t just run all over him as easily as he did when they actually fought, but it did show us just how little Nagato could actually do to Itachi and how Itachi had absolutely no problems with anything Nagato dishes out.

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#34 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

“You can't really use plot for Itachi when in Naruto and Bee's case they had established that they are capable of doing what I mentioned just prior to this fight” - You’re telling me that Itachi doesn’t have a single jutsu that has piercing damage equivalent to that of a lightning laced kunai? Cause you literally just have to rupture the center core... in other words crack the center core. And Itachi realized how to destroy in the very next panel after it was released!! Are you being serious right now?? How was that not plot??

“It still taxes his MS and Nagato can still dodge it or counter it with Shinra Tensei. If Ay can dodge it then so can Nagato considering he kept up with two people who are just as fast(and in Naruto's case faster) than the Raikage. Totsuka Blade would work but I honestly feel like Nagato could absorb it.” - No, Ay literally laughs at Nagato. Nagato can’t run in case you forgot!! Even edo Nagato never ran. Itachi has to carry him for Christ sake and you’re telling me he’s as fast as A?? GTFOH that’s the craziest wank I’ve heard in a while!! Nagato is slower than anyone in Naruto that can run again, he literally has no way to defend against AMATERASU!

Nagato dodged a punch from a cloaked Bee before even having his legs healed, who is > the Raikage in speed.

Saying Nagato could absorb Totsuka blade or Yata mirror is like saying Nagato can now absorb SOSP Rods! He can’t he literally got killed by Totsuka blade and if he could’ve he would’ve feats suggest he can’t I’m not gonna listen to head canon.

Yata mirror and Totsuka blade are chakra constructs, so yes he can absorb them, just like he would be able to absorb Itachi's Susanoo. Also, Itachi attacked Nagato through smoke and surprised him with the Totsuka blade.

I strongly disagree that Izanami would be harder to set up against Nagato than it would someone who literally has all of the best of the Kekkei genkai at his disposal. Not to mention SM stacked on top of everything. So no, I don’t see the basis for what you were talking about. Kabuto literally controlled the very ground Otachi walked on yet he still got Kabuto with it.

This is hilarious, having "the best kekkei genkai" or "SM stacked on top of everything" does nothing against Izanami, the only way to counter Izanami is "if they can acknowledge the real results of their actions and in doing so, accept their fate." Nagato literally did this at the end of his fight with Naruto, so Izanami wouldn't even work on him.

When I say 9.9/10 diff. I’m saying on a scale of 1-10 and 1/10 being a super easy win. A 9.9/10 means virtual hell to win. Nagato himself would be a mid diff 6/10. Feel like Itachi won’t just run all over him as easily as he did when they actually fought, but it did show us just how little Nagato could actually do to Itachi and how Itachi had absolutely no problems with anything Nagato dishes out.

It took Bee, Naruto and Itachi to defeat Nagato when he was under Kabuto's control, meaning he was further nerfed.

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#35 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: Just because he figures out how to destroy it doesn't mean he's capable of doing it himself. And there's no proof that all it takes is a "lightning-enhanced kunai," which is something Itachi can't even do, to rupture it. Sasuke's feat against CT meteors was after they had formed already, so I don't see how that proves anything. What does he do after that? He tells Naruto and Bee to hit it with their strongest ranged jutsu, why would he do that if Yasaka Beads could have done it on their own?

Nagato only had mobility problems for the first part of the fight, once Itachi breaks free and Nagato absorbs Bee's chakra(and honestly even before that) he has zero issues moving, and living Nagato wouldn't have this issue at all since I assume we're not using Nagato after summoning Gedo Mazou. Also considering Nagato could react to and surprise both Bee and Naruto(who is faster than Ay) I fail to see why Ay would just laugh at Nagato. As for Amaterasu, once again he dodges it or uses Shinra Tensei.

TSBs are a lot better than Totsuka Blade but I'll concede him not absorbing it but he can dodge it. Nagato got hit because he was surprised they destroyed CT and Itachi took advantage of it, I thought that was pretty clear.

Itachi was an Edo in that fight and took full advantage of that. This coupled with Kabuto's arrogance is what allowed him to pull it off.

Oh, my bad then, most people use it the opposite way.

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#36 Posted by TheDeathstroke (3068 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato takes round 2 & 3. Kid Itachi takes round 1

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#37 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va:

“Nagato dodged a punch from a cloaked Bee before even having his legs healed, who is > the Raikage in speed.” - Vividly remember Kisame dodging a punch from cloaked bee. Granted cloak bee also blitzed Kisame, but still even Kisame dodged that. And by no means is cloaked bee even close to Raikage in speed. Sasuke w/o MS had no issue with cloaked bee (Bee even admitted the only one to dodge him like that was his brother). Later MS Sasuke had no problems with V1 A. It was after A amplified his chakra that Sasuke had problems. We only ever saw A go V2 against Madara after Sasuke.

“Yata mirror and Totsuka blade are chakra constructs, so yes he can absorb them, just like he would be able to absorb Itachi's Susanoo. Also, Itachi attacked Nagato through smoke and surprised him with the Totsuka blade” - Again, saying they are absorbable is like saying the nine tails or any other tailed beast is absorbable (Sealable is not absorbable). The tailed beasts are just clumps of chakra given physical form (Who for some reason also have their own personalities????) the Susanno has battled multiple Rinnegan opponents and not a single one ever absorbed it. When that would be a very logical thing to do considering how hard they are to deal with otherwise. And the smoke had nothing to do with it. You may as well have just told me that had Naruto just threw down smoke balls and then rasenshuriken all the paths of Pain would’ve died. You’re lowballing the crap out of Nagato to suggest that just causing a smoke screen prevents him from using his abilities. And Totsuka blade is liquid that passes through molecules. Anything Nagato would try to block it with would get passed through.

Aside from dojutsu, Kabuto had the most op kekei genkai. Couldn’t hurt him body like Zetsu, bones like Kimimaru, Etc. And those abilities are op af. You can’t touch him, he’s got total control over the entire battle field, he’s got bones denser than steel when he decides to attack. He’s got that one jutsu that numbs your body and your senses. He’s got the flute genjutsu. And SM speed, strength, chakra, etc stacked on every one of those abilities. Had Pain arrived at that place to battle Kabuto, it wouldn’t have ended so pretty. Granted Itachi was holding back so he didn’t kill Kabuto and he told Sasuke to just stand there and look pretty. So Kabuto May have seemed more op than he really was, but either way, he was hax af. Itachi never said Izanami was restricted to that specific result, he said you can choose how to bind them, and you can decide for yourself what way they get out of it. It literally decides the fate of your opponent, how they’re trapped and how they get out.

“It took Bee, Naruto and Itachi to defeat Nagato when he was under Kabuto's control, meaning he was further nerfed.” - Thats terrible logic, fine, Itachi was under Kotoamatsukiyomi control so he was nerfed. And saying it took bee Naruto and Itachi to defeat Nagato is like saying it took Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi to beat Zabuza. Kakashi like Itachi was protecting the others throughout the whole fight and keeping an edge over the opponent, he gets help for literally one second (Which was arguably plot) and now Itachi/Kakashi couldn’t have won on their own. That is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Thanks man

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#38 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va:

Can you structure your paragraphs differently? It's very annoying to read.

“Nagato dodged a punch from a cloaked Bee before even having his legs healed, who is > the Raikage in speed.” - Vividly remember Kisame dodging a punch from cloaked bee.

Scans? I don't remember this, regardless this hardly disproves anything, Kisame is top 3 strongest in the Akatsuki.

Granted cloak bee also blitzed Kisame, but still even Kisame dodged that. And by no means is cloaked bee even close to Raikage in speed

This is clearly wrong, Bee had no issues intercepting and keeping track of the Raikage even without his cloak, with it he's easily faster.

Sasuke w/o MS had no issue with cloaked bee

Sasuke dodged this

No Caption Provided

A 5-6 Tailed V1 cloak

Nagato dodged this

No Caption Provided

The two aren't even remotely comparable.

Also it's hilarious how you say "Sasuke had no issues with cloaked Bee" when Bee pretty much killed Sasuke in his Cloaked form.

(Bee even admitted the only one to dodge him like that was his brother). Later MS Sasuke had no problems with V1 A. It was after A amplified his chakra that Sasuke had problems. We only ever saw A go V2 against Madara after Sasuke.

“Yata mirror and Totsuka blade are chakra constructs, so yes he can absorb them, just like he would be able to absorb Itachi's Susanoo. Also, Itachi attacked Nagato through smoke and surprised him with the Totsuka blade” - Again, saying they are absorbable is like saying the nine tails or any other tailed beast is absorbable (Sealable is not absorbable).

No it isn't, this is a really dumb comparison. The tailed beasts are alive, they're pretty much animals.

The tailed beasts are just clumps of chakra given physical form (Who for some reason also have their own personalities????)

They aren't just clumps of chakra, they're sentient living things, Kurama actually has fur etc.

the Susanno has battled multiple Rinnegan opponents and not a single one ever absorbed it. When that would be a very logical thing to do considering how hard they are to deal with otherwise.

Give me examples as to when Susanoo users have battled the Rinnegan, Sasuke didn't use it against Madara.

And the smoke had nothing to do with it. You may as well have just told me that had Naruto just threw down smoke balls and then rasenshuriken all the paths of Pain would’ve died.

Which is literally what happened? He used the smoke so he could surprise attack them...

You’re lowballing the crap out of Nagato to suggest that just causing a smoke screen prevents him from using his abilities.

It messes with his vision yes...

And Totsuka blade is liquid that passes through molecules.

Scan stating it passes through molecules? And Madara has absorbed water Jutsu before so I don't see how it being a liquid changes anything.

Anything Nagato would try to block it with would get passed through.

No, it gets absorbed.

Aside from dojutsu, Kabuto had the most op kekei genkai. Couldn’t hurt him body like Zetsu, bones like Kimimaru, Etc. And those abilities are op af.

You can’t touch him, he’s got total control over the entire battle field, he’s got bones denser than steel when he decides to attack. He’s got that one jutsu that numbs your body and your senses. He’s got the flute genjutsu. And SM speed, strength, chakra, etc stacked on every one of those abilities.

Which are completely irrelevant against Izanami, not sure why you're bringing these up.

Had Pain arrived at that place to battle Kabuto, it wouldn’t have ended so pretty. Granted Itachi was holding back so he didn’t kill Kabuto and he told Sasuke to just stand there and look pretty. So Kabuto May have seemed more op than he really was, but either way, he was hax af.

Itachi never said Izanami was restricted to that specific result, he said you can choose how to bind them, and you can decide for yourself what way they get out of it. It literally decides the fate of your opponent, how they’re trapped and how they get out.

Scan stating this

“It took Bee, Naruto and Itachi to defeat Nagato when he was under Kabuto's control, meaning he was further nerfed.” - Thats terrible logic, fine, Itachi was under Kotoamatsukiyomi control so he was nerfed. And saying it took bee Naruto and Itachi to defeat Nagato is like saying it took Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi to beat Zabuza. Kakashi like Itachi was protecting the others throughout the whole fight and keeping an edge over the opponent, he gets help for literally one second (Which was arguably plot) and now Itachi/Kakashi couldn’t have won on their own. That is the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Thanks man

This is just stupid... Itachi still had control of his actions when under Kotoamatsukami, whereas Kabuto, a dude who is completely inexperienced with the Rinnegan and Nagato's power was directly controlling Nagato.

Naruto and Sasuke were fighting Haku, not Zabuza. Unless you're referring to earlier where Kakashi would have died if Naruto and Sasuke didn't break him out of the water prison.

Your Itachi wank is comical, both KCM Naruto and Bee are stronger than Itachi, the only thing that makes Itachi relevant is his Genjutsu and that isn't working on Nagato.

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#39 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah:

“lightning-enhanced kunai," which is something Itachi can't even do, to rupture it. ”

- You’re saying Totsuka blade which is one of the SOSP weapons is weaker than a lightning enhanced kunai?? When Sasuke hit Madara’s CT, they literally crumbled apart, nothing was holding them together is why it matters. I already told you why he got help from them, plot same as when Kakashi “Needed” Naruto and Sasuke. 2 genin actually making a difference in a battle against Jonin is hilarious. There is no reason Totsuka blade couldn’t have destroyed it before it even had anything protecting it. And Itachi literally did that as a theory, if it wouldn’t have worked, they were f***ed. And Naruto and Bee wouldn’t have known what was happening. There’s 100 reasons why Itachi would’ve told them, saying plot demanded makes more sense and is less stress on the brain.

“Nagato wouldn't have this issue at all since I assume we're not using Nagato after summoning Gedo Mazou.” Well, before summoning Gedo mazo, Nagato was a little b**** and showed no signs of being proficient with his rinnegan abilities. So mobile Nagato gets s*** on. Which is why I said Itachi, No diff vs live Nagato, he’s either 100% cripple or a cry baby w/ no signs of rinnegan experience.

I can’t believe what I’m hearing. Naruto dodged V1 A, a much slower version of A than the one who dodged AMA. C admitted that in order to counter the MS, lord Raikage has raised his power. And raikages hair got much spikier, and the Raikage that 3T sharingan Sasuke had no problems with was all of a sudden faster than MS sight. The Raikage that was dodged by Naruto was a heavily needed Raikage to the one escaping MS sight. Not only that, Itachi had no problems following Naruto, Bee, nor Nagato with his MS. So it shouldn’t matter anyways, Nagato isn’t outrunning MS sight however you choose to look at it. And ST takes 5 secs to charge, Itachi literally just drops another Amaterasu shot before 1 second passes. Nagato has no counter for ama.

Fair enough, Nagato could potentially ST the Totsuka blade away, but let’s be honest, Itachi uses AMA way before he uses Susanno. So I see the fight starting out Itachi playing with clones and kunai to figure Nagato out. Nagato doing the same but using summons. Once Itachi starts getting overran (Which I believe would happen early on). I see Itachi hitting him with AMA, Nagato pushing it off, Totsuka blade. I don’t see Nagato straight up dodging something that fast Oro literally didn’t even see it. I’ll concede Nagato could see it, but I don’t see him moving in time a good argument would be ST, but that has a 5 sec cool down. And all of Itachi’s moves are one-shot long distance moves that are stupid fast or instantaneous. I can’t see Nagato winning this, if Itachi didn’t just see every single counter for Nagato’s moves as soon as they were activated and it took Itachi as much time as it did Naruto and the others, then a case could be made. It’s just his mind along with his skill set makes it impossible for me to see Nagato winning with ST alone, and as we’ve discussed, that’s the only defense he really has against Itachi.

“Itachi was an Edo in that fight and took full advantage of that. This coupled with Kabuto's arrogance is what allowed him to pull it off.“ - Agreed and I’ll be the first to tell you that, but you also have to figure that Kabuto never touched Itachi until after Izanami was already activated. The very first time Itachi was hit was by the cave itself and the crows went flying. Everything from there was just making the loop and protecting Sasuke.

It’s all good

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#40 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

Imagine using Rinnegan Sasuke whom is infinitely stronger than fodderTachi to try and say Itachi can destroy Madara's meteors and therefore Nagato's.

What a fanboy.

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#41 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: I never said that, I was refuting you saying that something on that level would stop CT, which if that were true Itachi would have done so, I mean it's one of the things he's best at. I also said Totsuka might work but the problem with that is its reach, Itachi can't fly like Sasuke could and the blade has never shown the ability to extend that far. And Sasuke cut them into a bunch of pieces, you can even see his sword slashes. Also now you say he did it as a theory, what happened to immediately knowing what it would take and just not doing so because of plot? If he felt that they needed protected he would have done the same thing he did with Sasuke and told them to stay back but he didn't. He asked for their help because he needed it to destroy CT.

I like how you're comparing Bee and KCM Naruto to inexperienced Genin that legitimately saved their team leader. The only reason Naruto didn't do more was because he was jobbing, same with Bee, I've already mentioned what they could have done in the situation they were in. I mean, Naruto even forgot how Nagato's powers worked despite facing him not that long ago. If that doesn't prove he was jobbing hard I don't know what does.

Nagato was trapped and forced to kill his own friend, how is that being a cry baby? He was timid as a child but after talking and training with Jiraiya he became a lot braver. And either way Nagato can use his summons to move himself and tank attacks for him so it's not really an issue.

No, Ay said he used his fastest punch, even Bee says this:

Loading Video...

Also Naruto wasn't trying to fight him in their encounter, he easily defended himself while having a conversation with Itachi. Base Bee was able to react to Itachi as well, although admittedly he also never tagged Itachi.

Nagato is a lot stronger and faster than Orochimaru so I don't see how Itachi blitzing him with Totsuka is relevant.

Actually I think he got hit before that and it was legitimate because his Edo regen kicked in instead of him turning to crows. I think it was when Kabuto stabbed him the the stalactites/stalagmites.

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#42 Edited by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va:

“Also it's hilarious how you say "Sasuke had no issues with cloaked Bee" when Bee pretty much killed Sasuke in his Cloaked form”

- The same Bee that powered up to get one-shot by MS??

“They aren't just clumps of chakra, they're sentient living things, Kurama actually has fur etc.” just because they have fur doesn’t mean anything. Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara’s Susannos have battled without the user inside of them, they can also act on their own.

“Give me examples as to when Susanoo users have battled the Rinnegan, Sasuke didn't use it against Madara.”

- Itachi v Nagato, Sasuke vs Obito. If you haven’t seen a Susanno battle a rinnegan user, you obviously haven’t watched Naruto

“Which is literally what happened? He used the smoke so he could surprise attack them...”

- And it only took down one path of pain, you’re acting like that’s all it would take.

“Scan stating it passes through molecules? And Madara has absorbed water Jutsu before so I don't see how it being a liquid changes anything”

- I’ve already told you why that’s just a stupid argument, there’s no feats of a Susanno being absorbed with the many opportunities presented to rinnegan users. Feats Trump your fanfic

“This is just stupid... Itachi still had control of his actions when under Kotoamatsukami, whereas Kabuto, a dude who is completely inexperienced with the Rinnegan and Nagato's power was directly controlling Nagato”

- He controlled him directly for 1 second to use CT.

“Unless you're referring to earlier where Kakashi would have died if Naruto and Sasuke didn't break him out of the water prison.”

- Yes I am referring to that time when Kakashi was literally protecting them the whole time while having a clear advantage over Zabuza and got caught off guard, but like I said, Itachi never even had the problems Kakashi had against Nagato.

“Your Itachi wank is comical, both KCM Naruto and Bee are stronger than Itachi, the only thing that makes Itachi relevant is his Genjutsu and that isn't working on Nagato”

- Your Itachi low-ball is comical, Bee was dropped by a single Amaterasu shot. Naruto was being pushed back in just H2H against Itachi, and while swapping hands with Naruto dodge an attack from killer Bee, so Itachi fought 2 people faster than Raikage, wow. Guess Itachi takes Raikage with H2H alone

BTW, Nagato isn’t faster than Itachi’s MS sight, that was proved on numerous occasions. So Amaterasu will hit him. You’re roundabout of trying to tell me Nagato is faster than Raikage is quite comical, no one can take you seriously with statements like that.

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#43 Posted by Sup3rn0va (992 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va:

“Also it's hilarious how you say "Sasuke had no issues with cloaked Bee" when Bee pretty much killed Sasuke in his Cloaked form”

- The same Bee that powered up to get one-shot by MS??

I love how you ignored everything above this point because you got slapped. The same Bee that was fighting 4v1 and still managed to pretty much kill Sasuke and escape without anyone noticing yes.

“They aren't just clumps of chakra, they're sentient living things, Kurama actually has fur etc.” just because they have fur doesn’t mean anything. Sasuke, Itachi, and Madara’s Susannos have battled without the user inside of them, they can also act on their own.

Learn the definition of "sentient", Madara's automatic Susanoo clones aren't sentient.

“Give me examples as to when Susanoo users have battled the Rinnegan, Sasuke didn't use it against Madara.”

- Itachi v Nagato

When Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto, whom didn't entirely understand Nagato's abilities and how to effectively use them.

, Sasuke vs Obito.

Outlier since Obito didn't use 90% of the paths even though they'd have helped him immensely.

If you haven’t seen a Susanno battle a rinnegan user, you obviously haven’t watched Naruto

“Which is literally what happened? He used the smoke so he could surprise attack them...”

- And it only took down one path of pain, you’re acting like that’s all it would take.

No, I'm telling you that attacking through smoke acts as a surprise attack, jeez.

“Scan stating it passes through molecules? And Madara has absorbed water Jutsu before so I don't see how it being a liquid changes anything”

- I’ve already told you why that’s just a stupid argument, there’s no feats of a Susanno being absorbed with the many opportunities presented to rinnegan users. Feats Trump your fanfic

LOL, I ask for a scan proving the nonsense he spouts and he says something completely irrelevant, typical Itachi fanboy.

“This is just stupid... Itachi still had control of his actions when under Kotoamatsukami, whereas Kabuto, a dude who is completely inexperienced with the Rinnegan and Nagato's power was directly controlling Nagato”

- He controlled him directly for 1 second to use CT.

Kabuto had control of Nagato the entire time he had his legs healed, wtf are you talking about.

“Unless you're referring to earlier where Kakashi would have died if Naruto and Sasuke didn't break him out of the water prison.”

- Yes I am referring to that time when Kakashi was literally protecting them the whole time while having a clear advantage over Zabuza and got caught off guard, but like I said, Itachi never even had the problems Kakashi had against Nagato.

So we agree Zabuza would have beaten Kakashi? And like I've said, Itachi had the support of both Bee and Naruto, and would have lost to CT without them.

“Your Itachi wank is comical, both KCM Naruto and Bee are stronger than Itachi, the only thing that makes Itachi relevant is his Genjutsu and that isn't working on Nagato”

- Your Itachi low-ball is comical, Bee was dropped by a single Amaterasu shot. Naruto was being pushed back in just H2H against Itachi??? How TF does Naruto have a chance against him.

Naruto was never being pushed back, and he wasn't trying to defeat Itachi rather have a conversation with him, stop with your wank, it's pathetic.

BTW, Nagato isn’t faster than Itachi’s MS sight, that was proved on numerous occasions. So Amaterasu will hit him. You’re roundabout of trying to tell me Nagato is faster than Raikage is quite comical, no one can take you seriously with statements like that.

Nagato removes Amaterasu with Shinra Tensei or absorbs it.

You trying to say Nagato dodging an attack from Cloaked Bee with both his legs not working doesn't make him faster than the Raikage is equally as comical.

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#44 Posted by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@sup3rn0va:

“I love how you ignored everything above this point because you got slapped. The same Bee that was fighting 4v1 and still managed to pretty much kill Sasuke and escape without anyone noticing yes.”

-Because everything before had nothing to do with Itachi v Nagato and I’m not about to humor your fanboy roundabouts. The same Bee that didn’t deal with any specific MS abilities aside from 1, which dropped him (The genjutsu Sasuke used was not a MS Specific ability he gained), and had it not been for Sasuke caring about Karin’s life, then Bee was as good as dead.

“Learn the definition of "sentient", Madara's automatic Susanoo clones aren't sentient.”

-I’m fully aware of what Sentient means, and I’m fully aware that Susanno if given personalities would be the exact same thing as a Bijuu. That’s the only difference between the two.

“When Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto, whom didn't entirely understand Nagato's abilities and how to effectively use them.”

- So Kabuto was directly controlling every edo shinobi and didn’t allow any of them to use the full extent of theirs Arsenal even though a lot of the shinobi died way before Kabuto was even born, yet he knew how to activate all of their powers?

“When Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto, whom didn't entirely understand Nagato's abilities and how to effectively use them.” - That’s what kept him from absorbing bees chakra or Naruto rasengan?? This is why I can’t debate fanboys, you pick and choose you feats rather than just talking about the truth. Try to tell me Kabuto had no clue how to absorb shit when Nagato was doin it the whole fight.

“Outlier since Obito didn't use 90% of the paths even though they'd have helped him immensely.”

-it’s only an outlier when you want it to be honestly. Cause Nagato’s wasn’t an outlier, but there was an excuse for it, and when there’s not an excuse it’s an outlier.

“No, I'm telling you that attacking through smoke acts as a surprise attack, jeez.”

- so any character in Naruto that has smoke can blitz Nagato? Well I guess Itachi wins no-diff then.

“OL, I ask for a scan proving the nonsense he spouts and he says something completely irrelevant, typical Itachi fanboy.”

- That’s not how it works fanboy, you said Nagato can absorb a Susanno. Prove it. You don’t have the proof, I’m calling you a fanboy for making false statements. Sure I can prove that Nagato can’t absorb a Susanno, go back and watch Naruto it never happens.

“And like I've said, Itachi had the support of both Bee and Naruto, and would have lost to CT without them.”

- No, Itachi literally knew how to destroy the panel after it was released, it was still just a black ball, and based on feats along with power scaling, Itachi easily destroys it.

“Naruto was never being pushed back, and he wasn't trying to defeat Itachi rather have a conversation with him, stop with your wank, it's pathetic.”

- Kinda like the shinobi alliance was trying to have a conversation with 2nd mizukage?? Or Gaara with his father? That’s loterally no excuse when Itachi was doing the exact same thing. Along with dodging Bee amidst all that.

“Nagato removes Amaterasu with Shinra Tensei or absorbs it.”

- Nagato can’t absorb it. I’d he uses ST it’s gonna take him 5 seconds to use it again. And Itachi can just keep bombarding him with Amaterasu in the meantime.

“You trying to say Nagato dodging an attack from Cloaked Bee with both his legs not working doesn't make him faster than the Raikage is equally as comical.” could’ve sworn that Nagato just absorbed Bee’s chakra rather than dodge anything. And sure let’s use your “Method” if finding everyone’s speed. Raikage (According to databooks is the speed of lightning). Well, Kakashi as a kid cut lightning in half. Zabuza blitzed Kakashi, now Zabuza>Raikage. I could literally do shit like that all day. Fact of the matter is, no one is gonna take you seriously when that’s obvious outliers

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#45 Posted by Adamantine (1885 posts) - - Show Bio

Nagato every round.

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#46 Edited by Adamantine (1885 posts) - - Show Bio

@fullmetalemprah: How does Itachi win round 1? Nagato had Rinniegan has a kid and was able to use all chakra types.

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#47 Posted by Adamantine (1885 posts) - - Show Bio

@shadow411: Itachi needed Naruto and Bee to help him against Nagato, he can't do it alone. And Itachi isn't on KCM level he fought Naruto who didn't attack back and single time and Naruto's chakra was split 5 times so it was 1/5th Naruto.

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#48 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5629 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamantine: Actually I forgot Nagato was capable of all five nature transformations. Either way Itachi was Anbu level at 11 years old so I still think he could win if he killed Nagato in one attack.

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#49 Edited by Shadow411 (1034 posts) - - Show Bio

@adamantine:

Well, you’re wrong. If Itachi can swap hands with someone he can light them up with ama. Which at this point, Naruto has no defense for (It’s not until after he becomes a perfect jinkurichi that he can use the liquid chakra cloak). So, unless you can show me a panel of Naruto blitzing, then he’s not avoiding Amaterasu by just dodging, though if he had SM sensory stacked on that speed, sure I’d he could dodge it. But you literally just combust into flame, unless you have precog or are just straight up faster than MS sight, you’re not dodging it. And Naruto has fallen prey to finger genjutsu, he gets stomped here. He’s no match.

Just curious, but when did Naruto say his chakra was 1/5th? Not saying you’re wrong, I just wonna know.

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#50 Posted by Nausea (181 posts) - - Show Bio

Itachi feats are not so impressive, Itachi is a character with Plot Armor.

Totsuka hype is ridiculous, Totsuka/sword possesses Hax ability, but its cutting / piercing power equals orochimaru's Kusanagi sword which proved to be incapable of piercing the Naruto / Four Tails!

Itachi can not use Kotoamatsukami!

Naruto, Killer bee VS Edo Nagato, Edo Itachi:

Naruto did not count on his army of Kage Bushins nor made use of his speedblitz movement (Kiiroi Senko) that surpasses Raiton no Shushin + Raiton Chakura Mode(Raikage).
Naruto in this fight was stupid due to the script.

Killer B did not make use of his Sumi Bunshin in Jutsu /Fuinjutsu, only turned into Hachibi at the end of the fight, killer only used taijutsu / Kenjutsu against Edo Itachi.


Edo Nagato was being controlled by Kabuto ...


Nagato >>>>> Itachi


Itachi only wins the first round.