Itachi vs Katakuri vs Ulquiorra

@faradaysloth: Ik its pretty clear from the manga just want to understand thebalance weird scaling lol

@alextheboss: it's never clearly stated even once but how do people watch Bleach and not notice these details? It's not exactly hidden you know.

@thebalance: What do you mean by stronger, if it was stronger shouldn't it have overpowered aizen and like pushed him at least,

shunpo proficiency just means you are good at using its techniques like clones and utsusemi not speed, its clear when aizen blitzed soifon who was stated to be the best at shunpo iirc, and ichigo who has no training what so ever in shinigami techniques but still one of the fastest in the verse using simple shunpo.

Ulquiorra kills them both in base with his bare hands.

The itachi wank on this site needs to stop, the dude couldn’t dodge an exploding shuriken and hebi sasuke went FTE to him for a while as he was using Amaterasu.

Yet you guys wank that one dodgy feat of him “reacting” to lightning so badly.

Either way, ulquiorra still blitzes and kills them both using his bare hands in any form.

That scenario has nothing to do with this.

Have you ever seen a Bleach character get blitzed by someone weaker than them?

Isn't shunpo a skill with different levels of proficiency which requires years of training to completely master?

Look, all the 4 basic forms of shingami combat have proficiency levels, but in all four is still directly proportional to reiatsu.

A shakaho shootout between Komamura and Momo would result in Komamura exerting greater power because of his far greater reiatsu. Equilze reiatsu and Komamura gets fried.

A Hakuda fight between Soifon and Kenpachi will result in Soi Fon unable to swap hands equally with him and get blasted away with each attempt even though she's way more skilled and that's because of her weaker reiatsu. Equalize reiatsu and Kenpachi can't land a single hit.

A Zanjutsu battle between Renji and Ichigo would result in Renji not even able to shift Ichigo from stance with no leverage or good center of gravity. Equalize reiatsu and Ichigo gets curbed.

A game of tag between Soifon and Kenpachi and Soi Fon loses everytime, surprised that the slug is reacting and seems inescapable. Put them in a race and Soi Fon finishes the second he starts.

These are the effects of greater reiatsu opposed to skill.

@thebalance: That's the point lol

so if you got greater reiatsu you are faster, stronger more durable, you can't just equalize reiatsu to prove a point, reiatsu isn't equal in the story itself, i don't think anyone is arguing kenpachi being more skilled than soifon but he shits on her in everything speed included.

I think his point is that while skill is still important in shinigami battles, reiatsu plays a very big role in them too. E.g ichigo isn’t as skilled as Soi fon in Hakuda, but he’d still beat her up regardless due to his reiatsu being superior.

same thing with shunpo. Soi fon is more skilled at it as evidenced by all the techniques she can use like the cloning technique and utsutsemi, but ichigo is still faster due to having more reiatsu.

@smokak: that's where it gets technical. He's waaaaay slower, like basic level shunpo if any at all. So if it's like escaping a large blast radius or something of that sort, that's where actual speed is important but in a fight between both of them and he's releasing reiatsu way above her's then she wouldn't notice anything, she'd just get striked down. So although he'd be the one blitzing her we can't just say he's faster because he's not. Not even close

@thebalance: I mean it’s harder for characters to move when they are under intense spirit pressure, but that only happens when the other character is much stronger, and when that’s happening it’s usually shown. They also have control over it, like how Aizen dropped Grimmjow to his knees, but that only happened because Aizen exerted pressure on him, Grimmjow was close to Aizen before that and did not feel the pressure.

@limitlesssigil: actually that is wrong, trebol hid his body inside his devil fruits ability by producing it and making it seem like he was larger than he actually was.

Katakuri is an awakened paramecia and is changing his body actively into Mochi like a logia except he can’t do this passively like a logia, it is not the same.

One is hiding the other is actively changing into Mochi.

But I agree with you, if he could vape katas entire Mochi body he has no feats to regen from this.

@alextheboss: why I say movements slow down is because of Soi Fon's statement about why she was being slowed down close to Baraggan. Though that wasn't the reason, it was still a possibility. In Chad's case too, simply having greater perception doesn't mean he can use his human speed to block attacks moving many times faster than him. Even though your right the effects of the pressure thing may very well be much more slight and barely noticeable but still effective enough to make a difference.

Ulquiorra has my vote. His ceroes should be able to vape itachi and kill katakuri.

@ruthlesskiller: he wouldn’t even need ceros tbh, these two are much slower than him.

I don't agree, but...

Itachi has stamina problems, so even if he was fast, he would tire out quickly. As for katakuri, well, ulquiorra can fly.

Its depends on wich version of ulqiorra ?

Normal ? Loose , but after a good fight and cero spaming .

R1 ? Have a big chance to win , he blitzed banaki+hollow mask ichigo , he minimum 10x faster , and he can use special atacks , genjutsu isnt factor , since ulqi have no chakra , and he is not a living , his a soul .

R2 ? Win , with low or mid diff . Can spam small country lv atacks , without much effort , and he can use cero oscuras , and still an espada and can use gran rey cero , if you get hit by a gran rey cero , its doesnt matter if you made of mochi or something like that , .

Hogyoku ? Stomp with no diff , fully immortal , and have much better aoe .

@thebalance: Soifon slowing down near barragan is a power specific to him not everyone can do it, the manga states more reiatsu = more speed, also Kenpachi removing his eye patch increases his reiatsu and his strength by your logic his strength shouldn't increase, I don't know why you trying to complicate things when its very simple lol, and skill is important only when the characters are relative to each other.

@smokak: the fact that she mentioned it means that something like that is possible.

Wait hang on, where was it mentioned in the manga? Ik something like that *may* be exclusive to Ichigo because of his bankai ability which compresses reiatsu and amps speed so it could be a case where the more reiatsu his bankai possesses the faster it would be but that speed increases with reiatsu thing doesn't go with any of my analysis at all. Please show me a scan or reference me to the chapter.

That monster over his eye eats his reiatsu, it doesn't take any of his physical abilities from what I remember which means his muscle strength shouldn't increase after removal just his reiatsu which means he can easily overwhelm attacks below his reiatsu level regardless of strength. And how far he can send someone flying with a strike doesn't dictate any difference in power, rather shows how physically strong he is.

I'm not trying to complicate things, it's just that many things didn't quite make any sense to me if strength=reiatsu.

There's no easy way to explain this because upon figuring it out the logic seemed wonky as hell but it made perfect sense. Say a soul reaper stikes a platform, no doubt they can cut right through the ground if they wish to do so but Aizen striking the ground compared ro Grimmjow striking the ground would give shocking results. The one with greater damage area would be Grimmjow because his physical ability (strength, not reiatsu) is higher than Aizen's. He can lift more and destroy more so it makes perfect sense that he can exert more force (m×a) thus having a greater damage area. Aizen would not have physical strength at this level so he wouldn't have a damage area as wide as Grimmjow. Ok to prove this we can use Grimmjow and base Ulquiorra. Without a doubt in mind, base Ulquiorra is stronger than Released Grimmjow based on scaling with Ichigo, yet Grimmjow's physical capability amounts to oneshotting entire sky scrapers while Ulquiorra could fight inside inside a tower, even strike the very walls but do minor damage. This means that reiatsu however high it may be, doesn't amount to large scale destruction of any sort. Strength or physical force however equates to destruction

In Kenpachi's fight against Nnoitra (I'm too lazy for scans rn) there was an evident difference in his swings when he said he's out of practice and it's like he doesn't know how to use his muscles or something like that then with a swing of his sword he created air pressure when he couldn't before.

You can even take a look at Meninas' schrift the Power. It drastically increases her muscle strength and visibly shows a huge buff in muscle size and she shows her physical capability by lifting a very large structure, it doesn't increase reiatsu, hence instead of striking Ichigo she shoved him (she could actually recieve lash back damage). Or Jackie who's physical power easily surpasses Renji's (dude can't do that shit, we know his strength can't be that high as that's what we can judge by looking and without using scaling) yet Renji gave her a fat L. Or Ginjo clearly saying Ichigo's reiatsu is higher but was surprised at increased physical strength. Or the distance Poww punched Komamura opposed to how far Komamura punched him, and when he flipped Poww, he marveled at his physical capability instead of threatened by reiatsu (he was seriously holding back btw)

Kenpachi being the strength potential and having the highest physical destruction feat right above Ulquiorra's Lanza. The two are lightyears apart in power and that's an understatement.

Btw FKT Soi Fon's bankai is scaled higher than Ulquiorra's Lanza but the difference between them is the expansion of energy. The weaker of the two can destroy an entire country and the stronger one is barely city level range (actually far lower). The potency of the actual energy is absurdly higher; like judging Ichigo's lifting capabilities then seeing the shit he can actually block casually

Sorry for the long reply but this is me trying to sum up everything in 20 words or less.

Here is how you determine if Itachi loses a fight.

1) Does his opponent have complete immunity to genjutsu and/or physical damage?

If no then Itachi stomps. It is in character for Ulquiorra to blitz at the start of the fight, but Bleach scaling is such garbage that no one has any idea how fast anyone actually is. Ichigo definitely swings his sword much faster than he runs though and Ulquiorra could easily block/dodge it so that is a plus.

It is rather unfortunate that it is also in character for Ulquiorra to stand around and look emo for a few minutes.

Katakuri is non-factor in my opinion. He is physically the most powerful. He just isn't beating Itachi right off the bat like one might be able to argue Ulquiorra does.

Itachi shitstomps low difficulty.

-Far faster than both

-They cant breach his Susanoo

-Genjutsu or Totsuka oneshot

The downplay and wank I've seen on this thread is hilarious.

OT: katakuri still wins

Katakuri solos.

- Itachi and Ulquiorra have no speed feats anywhere Luffy's

-Itachi's Susano'o has no multi mountain durability feats, Katakuri shatters it same thing with Ulquiorra he gets oneshotted.

- Itachi gets blitzed when a serious Katakuri sees a "very bad future" same thing goes with Lanza arguement.

Ulq

Ulqiorra wins.

Either Kata or Ulq blitz Itachi. Katakuri then proceeds to body Ulq.

Katakuri curbstomps my favorite naruto character. Ulquiorra base gets stomped worst than itachi, R 2 is close fight.

So katakuri easily

Katakuri stomps. Ulquiorra is overrated.

Katakuri is far faster than either with advanced precog and neither can take a single physical hit from him. Ulquiorra gets a spear shoved in his face.

Itachi is way too slow to compete. Someone like Nagato would have been a better fit.

Ulquiorra stomps. Katakuri is overrated.

XD base ulq would stomps itachi and Katakiri . Anyway Cero oscurus littlerly dwarfed 300 meter skyscrapers making it multi moutian.

Scaling from chad ulqs physicals are easily multi moutian in base. He also shattered ichgios mask with his bare hands. Ichgios mask can tank multi moutian level attacks

Katakuri wins this fight. Itachi dies first.

Katakuri punches both to oblivion

Lanza GG