Itachi wouldn't make it past Tien unless he uses Genjutsu right off the bat.
Genjutsu won't work. The only character who demonstrated casting a genjustu against an opponent without chakra is Kaguya with IT.
Genjutsu would work just fine. It was never mentioned once in the manga that Genjutsu only works on characters with Chakra, and Kaguya's example is indisputable proof that it can and will work on beings without Chakra. Unless you can demonstrate why Kaguya's Genjutsu somehow works differently, your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Besides, on the Battle forum, we assume characters are fighting in a neutral universe and all of their abilities work:
Itachi wouldn't make it past Tien unless he uses Genjutsu right off the bat.
Genjutsu won't work. The only character who demonstrated casting a genjustu against an opponent without chakra is Kaguya with IT.
Genjutsu would work just fine. It was never mentioned once in the manga that Genjutsu only works on characters with Chakra, and Kaguya's example is indisputable proof that it can and will work on beings without Chakra. Unless you can demonstrate why Kaguya's Genjutsu somehow works differently, your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. Besides, on the Battle forum, we assume characters are fighting in a neutral universe and all of their abilities work:
Then show a proof that other than Kaguya, Naruto verse can cast a genjutsu on characters without chakra. Jiraiya explained it well on how genjutsu needs chakra to work.
@jambyvedar: That isn't what Jiraiya said. He said Genjutsu is something that works on the five senses. He never said it works by manipulating the Chakra flow to affect the five senses. I did mention that it would work on characters without Chakra, and my proof for this claim comes from the source material itself, where there is at least 2 instances of Genjutsu working on beings without Chakra. If you're arguing that it won't work on Tien because he doesn't have Chakra, the burden of proof falls on you.
According to Jiraiya ,while in genjutsu, the chakra in your head is controlled. Tien does not have chakra to be controlled, it won't work on him.
@jambyvedar: That isn't what Jiraiya said. He said Genjutsu is something that works on the five senses. He never said it works by manipulating the Chakra flow to affect the five senses. I did mention that it would work on characters without Chakra, and my proof for this claim comes from the source material itself, where there is at least 2 instances of Genjutsu working on beings without Chakra. If you're arguing that it won't work on Tien because he doesn't have Chakra, the burden of proof falls on you.
According to Jiraiya ,while in genjutsu, the chakra in your head is controlled. Tien does not have chakra to be controlled, it won't work on him.
Yes, while someone is already in Genjutsu, the Chakra in his/her head is being controlled as a possible side effect. Notice how he never says it's a requirement for Genjutsu to work, but does go on the say that it works on the 5 senses:
And you realize Chakra isn't always flowing through a ninja's entire body at all times, right? It's something they need to consciously produce by mixing mental and physical energy together. This was established pretty early in the series:
@jambyvedar: You failed to hit the reply button again...
Jiraiya never mentioned that all you need is five senses for genjusu to work. Jiraiya never mentioned it is a side effect.
And Jiraiya never mentioned that the target needs Chakra for Genjutsu to work, while we have on-panel feats showing that isn't a requirement.
while at genjutsu, the chakra in your head is controlled. Even if gentutsu is striked to you, it won't work if you don't have chakra to be controlled.
Again, Jiraiya never said anything about Genjutsu not working if you don't have Chakra to be controlled. He said it works on the 5 senses. When it comes right down to it, on-panel feats speak louder than misinterpreted character statements.
Head has a brain and it is the main engine of our fives senses. When your brain is under extreme pressure it affects your five senses.
This doesn't prove Genjutsu works by manipulating the Chakra to affect the senses like you originally claimed.
To dispel the genjutsu you must stop your chakra flow according to Jiraiya.
That is only one method that can dispel Genjutsu. There are many more, such as inflicting pain on yourself like Shikamaru did during his fight with Tayuya.
Jiraiya implied that becuase it is by your chakra that a genjutsu works. Tien does not have a chakra for it to work.
That isn't what Jiraiya implied. In fact, he flat out stated that it works on the opponent's five senses, not their Chakra. Tien doesn't need to have Chakra for it to work, because as we've seen already, Genjutsu can work on people and animals without Chakra. Find me one example of Genjutsu failing to work on someone that doesn't have Chakra.
Aside from Kaguya, give a proof that someone was cast by a genjutsu while his chakra is not flowing.
Kaguya's feat is already more than enough proof, but we also have Madara's Genjutsu affecting ordinary house cats:
Hagoromo only passed the secrets of Ninshu down to people, so regular animals do like house cats don't have Chakra:
Not to mention, Itachi himself controlled a young lady in order to lure Jiraiya away form Naruto during the events of part 1. Pretty sure that girl isn't even trained in the art of kneading Chakra, and even if she was, there's no reason why she would have it flowing through her cranial nerves while walking down the street minding her own business.
@jambyvedar: It doesn't matter what you're saying, the rules of the forum are the rules of the forum. You have to assume his powers work on Tien for fair debating purposes. Ask @jashro44 or another mod if you want.
If that is the case, then Kaguya
@jambyvedar: You failed to hit the reply button again...
Jiraiya never mentioned that all you need is five senses for genjusu to work. Jiraiya never mentioned it is a side effect.
And Jiraiya never mentioned that the target needs Chakra for Genjutsu to work, while we have on-panel feats showing that isn't a requirement.
while at genjutsu, the chakra in your head is controlled. Even if gentutsu is striked to you, it won't work if you don't have chakra to be controlled.
Again, Jiraiya never said anything about Genjutsu not working if you don't have Chakra to be controlled. He said it works on the 5 senses. When it comes right down to it, on-panel feats speak louder than misinterpreted character statements.
Head has a brain and it is the main engine of our fives senses. When your brain is under extreme pressure it affects your five senses.
This doesn't prove Genjutsu works by manipulating the Chakra to affect the senses like you originally claimed.
To dispel the genjutsu you must stop your chakra flow according to Jiraiya.
That is only one method that can dispel Genjutsu. There are many more, such as inflicting pain on yourself like Shikamaru did during his fight with Tayuya.
Jiraiya implied that becuase it is by your chakra that a genjutsu works. Tien does not have a chakra for it to work.
That isn't what Jiraiya implied. In fact, he flat out stated that it works on the opponent's five senses, not their Chakra. Tien doesn't need to have Chakra for it to work, because as we've seen already, Genjutsu can work on people and animals without Chakra. Find me one example of Genjutsu failing to work on someone that doesn't have Chakra.
Aside from Kaguya, give a proof that someone was cast by a genjutsu while his chakra is not flowing.
Kaguya's feat is already more than enough proof, but we also have Madara's Genjutsu affecting ordinary house cats:
Hagoromo only passed the secrets of Ninshu down to people, so regular animals do like house cats don't have Chakra:
Not to mention, Itachi himself controlled a young lady in order to lure Jiraiya away form Naruto during the events of part 1. Pretty sure that girl isn't even trained in the art of kneading Chakra, and even if she was, there's no reason why she would have it flowing through her cranial nerves while walking down the street minding her own business.
But they still have chakra inside. When they use a ninjitsu they build up their chakra on their hands, or other area that requires it. No where it is mentioned that chakra is not flowing in your body. When you use a ninjitsu you build up your chakra on your hands. Aside from Kaguya, who is perhaps the strongest in Naruto verse,and she used IT, there is no proof that their genjutsu will work against opponent who does not have chakra.
@jambyvedar: It doesn't matter what you're saying, the rules of the forum are the rules of the forum. You have to assume his powers work on Tien for fair debating purposes. Ask @jashro44 or another mod if you want.
Following your thinking, then genjutsu will work against all fiction characters. That sounds absurd. There is a good evidence on why genjutsu won't work on other verse. they don't have chakra.
Yeah if genjustu can work on anybody that's silly because weak narutoverse characters know how to counter but other verses wouldnt
There are plenty of characters outside of Narutoverse with TP resistance.
But DBZ also demonstrated TP resistance. They can also fight against each other using their mind.
@jambyvedar: It doesn't matter what you're saying, the rules of the forum are the rules of the forum. You have to assume his powers work on Tien for fair debating purposes. Ask @jashro44 or another mod if you want.
Following your thinking, then genjutsu will work against all fiction characters. That sounds absurd. There is a good evidence on why genjutsu won't work on other verse. they don't have chakra.
Yeah if genjustu can work on anybody that's silly because weak narutoverse characters know how to counter but other verses wouldnt
There are plenty of characters outside of Narutoverse with TP resistance.
But DBZ also demonstrated TP resistance.
But not every character. Genjutsu won't work on people who actually have a defense against it though.
Not only dbz demonstrated that they can fight against TP, they can also use their mind to fight against each other.
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