Is it possible for an unarmed man to beat a skilled knife fighter?

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#1 Edited by mrmonster (17135 posts) - - Show Bio

Do you think that it's even remotely feasible for an unarmed man to beat a skilled knife fighter, like an Apache knife fighter or a Filipino martial arts practitioner.

Personally, I say no. Maybe an unarmed person could take an untrained person with a knife if they were very skilled in hand to hand combat, but not a skilled knife fighter. But I want to hear what you guys have to say on this topic.

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#2 Posted by BruceRogers (17803 posts) - - Show Bio

If he gets really really lucky. Otherwise it's highly unlikely. Not matter how skilled you are or how much you train, the chances of you getting cut in a knife fight are very high.

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#3 Posted by gamiz7 (1399 posts) - - Show Bio

if he disarms him or stuns him

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#4 Posted by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

If he gets really really lucky. Otherwise it's highly unlikely. Not matter how skilled you are or how much you train, the chances of you getting cut in a knife fight are very high.

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#5 Posted by stunnersix (322 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the unarmed mans skills. They have martial arts schools dedicated to disarm assailants with knives. Mostly of these schools are in countries that have banned guns.

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#6 Posted by WhatamIseeing (1787 posts) - - Show Bio

brucerogers

If he gets really really lucky. Otherwise it's highly unlikely. Not matter how skilled you are or how much you train, the chances of you getting cut in a knife fight are very high.

What he said

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#7 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, it is possible. It is unlikely, but it is definitely possible. It would depend on what happened during the fight and how skilled the unarmed person was. During a fight, no matter how skilled you are, anything can happen that you are not prepared for. All it would really take is the knife fighter losing his footing unexpectedly and the unarmed fighter being skilled enough to capitalize on that.

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#8 Posted by mrmonster (17135 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the unarmed mans skills. They have martial arts schools dedicated to disarm assailants with knives. Mostly of these schools are in countries that have banned guns.

I doubt most of those techniques would work against a skilled knife fighter. Don't get me wrong, against a common street thug, those the disarming techniques in styles like krav maga and hapkido would work great if you've practiced them hard enough, but I'm not sure they'd work as well against a trained knife fighter

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#9 Posted by slimj87d (15680 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster: it's possible. If a small 5 foot Filipino guy tries to knife a world champion kick boxer that's 6'7",

The kickboxer can more than likely perform a leg kick which can generate 2,000 to 2,500 lbf of force. He would have a much further reach also.

So I think a lot of factors come into play. Two guys the same size, the defender will more than likely get knifed.

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#10 Posted by Black_Arrow (10301 posts) - - Show Bio

If the guy is skilled with the knife, there's almost no chance. I actually think there is more chance that unskilled person unarmed could beat an unskilled person with knife (if the size advantage is big enough).

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#11 Posted by Stahlflamme (5880 posts) - - Show Bio

Only with a ridiculous amount of luck and even then he would probably bleed all over from his arms and hands afterwards.

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#12 Posted by dark-sith123 (5033 posts) - - Show Bio

By sheer dumb luck, perhaps. Otherwise, no.

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#14 Posted by deactivated-5d2fab494841e (380 posts) - - Show Bio

Any fight will come down to the skill of both fighters. Generally, assuming skill is equal among both fighters, I'd tend to think a skilled weapon user of any sort would beat a skilled h2h fighter. There would have to be a significant skill difference in favor of the h2h fighter for me to see them winning a majority of fights against a skilled weapon user.

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#15 Posted by AllStarSuperman (43917 posts) - - Show Bio

No

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#16 Posted by Supermanforever (9829 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on who fights lol. Elite soldiers are trained to fight people with knifes while beeing unarmed themselves. So its very possible. But an average guy would lose most of the times, thought its still very likely.

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#17 Posted by SocaJunkie (9675 posts) - - Show Bio

Unlikely but not impossible.

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#19 Posted by decaf_wizard (17373 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by KingFrieza (1614 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes, but it’s going to hurt... a lot.

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#21 Posted by FullMetalEmprah (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

Possible? Absolutely, anything can happen but I can assure you really don't want to try it, especially if they know how to actually use a knife. Assuming by Filipino arts you're meaning stuff like Kali I REALLY wouldn't try disarming one of those guys.

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#22 Posted by Aristeaus (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

A skilled knife fighter? No. Not at all. Anyone who thinks that has watched too many movies.

The is a old saying that no one wins a knife fight. Essentially, you are going to get cut.

I am a fairly skilled knife fighter ( or was, back in my military days ). I got into a fight with someone not nearly as skilled having a box cutter. While I won, I still could have easily have died and have the scar on my chest to prove it.

Now take someone like Doug Marciada who is someone I would consider quite skilled, and there isnt a person on the planet who could beat him unarmed.

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#23 Posted by AlexTheBoss (19662 posts) - - Show Bio

@brucerogers said:

If he gets really really lucky. Otherwise it's highly unlikely. Not matter how skilled you are or how much you train, the chances of you getting cut in a knife fight are very high.

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#24 Posted by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

A skilled knife fighter? No. Not at all.Anyone who thinks that has watched too many movies.

The is a old saying that no one wins a knife fight. Essentially, you are going to get cut.

I am a fairly skilled knife fighter ( or was, back in my military days ). I got into a fight with someone not nearly as skilled having a box cutter. While I won, I still could have easily have died and have the scar on my chest to prove it.

Now take someone like Doug Marciada who is someone I would consider quite skilled, and there isnt a person on the planet who could beat him unarmed.

Given that you posted an absolute like that, I am going to have to call into question the rest of your comment as well. I happen to have many family members in various branches of the military and know quite a few special forces guys that would absolutely disagree with you. Are you going to get hurt? Sure. Can you win? Absolutely. Is it likely if the skill level is roughly equal? Not really, most would put it at about 70% knife wielder, 30% unarmed. If the knife wielder is more skilled than the unarmed person then those chances change, just like they would if the unarmed person is more skilled than the knife wielder. But as anybody that has ever been in a fight knows, anything can happen in a fight that you aren't expecting. All it really takes is for something unexpected happening to the knife wielder(like losing his footing) and the unarmed person being skilled enough to take advantage.

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#25 Posted by stunnersix (322 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrmonster: No, not really. They actually have skilled practitioners that can disarm a expert with a knife, or club. They have videos on you tube.

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#26 Posted by deactivated-5b2dd32201ad6 (2795 posts) - - Show Bio

It's possible but it'd be a miracle.

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#27 Posted by deactivated-5b84aca03eae8 (6261 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on the unarmed man's skill.

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#28 Edited by Thekillerklok (10244 posts) - - Show Bio
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I am going to go with yes...

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#29 Posted by ComicGirl21 (1417 posts) - - Show Bio

It really depends on tiny details. Obviously in most scenarios the guy with a knife wins. But it depends on the martial art that the guy without a knife has trained, his experience in a knife fights, if there's any difference between their skill and so on.

Positive example for unarmed guy:

- the guy without a knife trained krav maga for 15 years and is a pro fighter and an instructor. He has real life fighting experience and actually fought against knife users in bar fights and such. He can disarm a knife user very efficiently.

- the guy with a knife studied knife fighting for 3 years. He is skilled but lacks "out of dojo" experience. He is not trained to couter knife-disarming moves, he just knows how to fight.

In that scenario I can see a guy without a knife winning 10/10 and still matches the OP.

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#30 Posted by RBT (30479 posts) - - Show Bio

Extremely unlikely.

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#31 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79: Your comment basically says it all. Granted the obvious option is to get away if you can or find a weapon of your own, but really the disarming techniques are a last resort and I feel like they get some unwarranted hate by some people because people that haven't trained in this stuff very long or just saw it online and think they are immediately invincible. Another thing I think people should take into account is that the average person is more than likely never going to get into a fight with someone like Doug Marcaida anyway, most people that know that stuff are taught to not escalate the conflict if one possibly prevents itself. No guarantees of course but there never is in fighting.

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#32 Posted by deactivated-5b728068f211c (7068 posts) - - Show Bio

It is.. it depends if the unarmed man is skilled, or where it takes place.

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#33 Posted by Aristeaus (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79 said:
@Aristeaus said:

A skilled knife fighter? No. Not at all.Anyone who thinks that has watched too many movies.

The is a old saying that no one wins a knife fight. Essentially, you are going to get cut.

I am a fairly skilled knife fighter ( or was, back in my military days ). I got into a fight with someone not nearly as skilled having a box cutter. While I won, I still could have easily have died and have the scar on my chest to prove it.

Now take someone like Doug Marciada who is someone I would consider quite skilled, and there isnt a person on the planet who could beat him unarmed.

Given that you posted an absolute like that, I am going to have to call into question the rest of your comment as well. I happen to have many family members in various branches of the military and know quite a few special forces guys that would absolutely disagree with you. Are you going to get hurt? Sure. Can you win? Absolutely. Is it likely if the skill level is roughly equal? Not really, most would put it at about 70% knife wielder, 30% unarmed. If the knife wielder is more skilled than the unarmed person then those chances change, just like they would if the unarmed person is more skilled than the knife wielder. But as anybody that has ever been in a fight knows, anything can happen in a fight that you aren't expecting. All it really takes is for something unexpected happening to the knife wielder(like losing his footing) and the unarmed person being skilled enough to take advantage.

Then they are lying about their credentials.

Special Forces is only Army. Rangers, Berets and Delta. They have limited knife training, if any at all. They are trained to use their rifles as weapons, even when not firing rounds.

A skilled knife fighter will rarely stab. A unarmed person cannot do much of anything against a knife. Even if they were to sacrifice there arm to block one slash, that arm is not only useless the rest of the fight ( Go try and fight someone, or even hold someone down, with a arm tied behind your back ), but it also starts the clock of how long that person can do anything. At that point the knife fighter can just wait until the unarmed person either gets reckless and exposes himself, or falls over.

While something miraculous can happen, it is such a infinitesimal amount that its irrelevant. Knife wins.

@rr79: Your comment basically says it all. Granted the obvious option is to get away if you can or find a weapon of your own, but really the disarming techniques are a last resort and I feel like they get some unwarranted hate by some people because people that haven't trained in this stuff very long or just saw it online and think they are immediately invincible. Another thing I think people should take into account is that the average person is more than likely never going to get into a fight with someone like Doug Marcaida anyway, most people that know that stuff are taught to not escalate the conflict if one possibly prevents itself. No guarantees of course but there never is in fighting.

Except the question is not framed that way. It isnt if the person can survive a attack and get away. It is can the unarmed person beat someone ( as in, the unarmed person is on the offensive ) against a skilled knife fighter. It also isnt can you survive long enough to find something to use as a weapon. Strictly unarmed.

Marcaida was a example of a skilled knife fighter. I have yet to hear a example of someone who can beat him, or anyone else, unarmed.

Marciada knows knife fighting. If you asked him if he could beat one of his peers while unarmed, while his peer has a knife... Pretty sure its a easy NO.

Anyone else, even those *lol* martial artists. They have no idea what it is to be in a real knife fight. To get cut. Do you have any idea what happens when most people get cut, stabbed, or shot?

The best chance I can give a unarmed person is someone like Cain Velasquez or Brock Lesnar who is messed up on so much meth that they cannot feel even lethal wounds and just bloodlust bum rush him. Might survive long enough to *beat* him, but they die shortly after. Not sure I would count that as a win.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5b17f1b84ea5f (1752 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason Bourne, or some person like that.

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#35 Edited by FullMetalEmprah (5747 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus: Obviously no one is beating a skilled knife fighter bar a miracle unarmed, especially in the offensive, hence why my original comment said I'd never try it. And of course Marcaida would say no, because he knows what the hell he's talking about. Like you said they'd have to be either near superhuman or drugged out of their mind. If Hafþór Björnsson went against a trained knife fighter I'd still have my money on the knife fighter carving him up if he wasn't drugged.

My comment for the disarming techniques was more just towards him and not particularly the subject at hand, considering in my experience most people don't even know how to hold a knife, much less use one efficiently. In that scenario it's still dangerous as hell but some training is better than nothing when you can't get away. And you are right in that most martial artists have no clue about fighting a skilled knife fighter, any gym that says they do has too much woo woo bullshit and I'd leave it immediately. A neighbor of mine that would spar with me sometimes always said, "How do you know a martial artist knows his shit? They're terrified of knives." Pretty much sums it up if you ask me.

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#36 Posted by Thedailybagel (12973 posts) - - Show Bio

Very very unlikely but it’s not totally impossible.

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#37 Posted by deactivated-5c07a0327fd39 (4592 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh this would be nasty

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#38 Posted by jayc1324 (26432 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course it is possible, but it is unlikely.

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#39 Posted by Amcu (17521 posts) - - Show Bio

It's obviously possible. I mean its possible for an untrained, unarmed person to beat a armed military trained sniper on an open field. It's just not very likely.

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#40 Posted by Shenron007 (2110 posts) - - Show Bio

good luck xd

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#41 Edited by RR79 (6761 posts) - - Show Bio

@Aristeaus said:
@rr79 said:
@Aristeaus said:

A skilled knife fighter? No. Not at all.Anyone who thinks that has watched too many movies.

The is a old saying that no one wins a knife fight. Essentially, you are going to get cut.

I am a fairly skilled knife fighter ( or was, back in my military days ). I got into a fight with someone not nearly as skilled having a box cutter. While I won, I still could have easily have died and have the scar on my chest to prove it.

Now take someone like Doug Marciada who is someone I would consider quite skilled, and there isnt a person on the planet who could beat him unarmed.

Given that you posted an absolute like that, I am going to have to call into question the rest of your comment as well. I happen to have many family members in various branches of the military and know quite a few special forces guys that would absolutely disagree with you. Are you going to get hurt? Sure. Can you win? Absolutely. Is it likely if the skill level is roughly equal? Not really, most would put it at about 70% knife wielder, 30% unarmed. If the knife wielder is more skilled than the unarmed person then those chances change, just like they would if the unarmed person is more skilled than the knife wielder. But as anybody that has ever been in a fight knows, anything can happen in a fight that you aren't expecting. All it really takes is for something unexpected happening to the knife wielder(like losing his footing) and the unarmed person being skilled enough to take advantage.

Then they are lying about their credentials.

Special Forces is only Army. Rangers, Berets and Delta. They have limited knife training, if any at all. They are trained to use their rifles as weapons, even when not firing rounds.

A skilled knife fighter will rarely stab. A unarmed person cannot do much of anything against a knife. Even if they were to sacrifice there arm to block one slash, that arm is not only useless the rest of the fight ( Go try and fight someone, or even hold someone down, with a arm tied behind your back ), but it also starts the clock of how long that person can do anything. At that point the knife fighter can just wait until the unarmed person either gets reckless and exposes himself, or falls over.

While something miraculous can happen, it is such a infinitesimal amount that its irrelevant. Knife wins.

I'm sorry but you are full of shit. End of story.

First of all, you are the one whose credentials are being lied about. Making a statement like that first one tells me that.

Second of all, nowhere in my entire comment did I even mention stabbing. Stop trying to create a strawman argument. Third, nowhere did I say anything about special forces being anything but army. Perhaps the problem is you have very little reading comprehension.

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#42 Edited by thelocust619 (7871 posts) - - Show Bio

A thick shirt just a lil bunched up is actually a stunningly decent defense. You'd be amazed what cloth can do as far as protection. You'd be nowhere near immune and u'd still take the force, but ur probably not getting significantly cut through that by anything but the sharpest or heaviest knives or the fastest swings. If u don't get stabbed in a vital or cut on an artery (< u actually still have a minute or two in case of the latter, plenty of time to kill a man) you have just as much a chance of knocking them out as anyone else...the stakes are just far higher when you actually take a hit. So yea, it's easily possible, just unlikely.

Note: there is the issue of cloth getting caught in a wound and leading to infection, but that's not gonna kill u during the fight. Plus, here, in the future, we wash our clothes so the risk isn't as high.

Things obviously get more questionable when we start debating the limits of what we'd consider a knife. Obviously some are better than others, and some are basically bastard short swords. Odds go down the bigger the weapon, but even with a sword it's not IMPOSSIBLE...just very, very unlikely.

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#43 Edited by thelocust619 (7871 posts) - - Show Bio

If skill is equal (h2h v knife) and the unarmed guy is wearing a carhartt and knife guy has a store bought walmart blade fresh out the package, forget it. Its almost 50/50 at that point. Really need details.

Also calling bull on the above "skilled knife fighters rarely stab". That's just nonsense unless you're fighting a naked man. Stabbing is how you reach vitals, even if u cut an artery they can still come for you. I can go on a whole tangent in how blade fights arent as pretty as movies and even with swords, the bleeding guy your sword is inside is probably STILL TRYING TO KILL YOU...but Ill save that. Even if one were dumb enough to throw their arm in the way, if they hit anywhere near the hand it stops the momentum, leaving the knifer no choice but to perform a draw cut, for which a knife blade is too short to be good at and would utterly fail to disable the arm. It'd cut, but they'd still use the arm. Probably even better if they consider the arm lost and use it as a forearm-long meat shield.

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#44 Posted by Aristeaus (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@rr79 said:

I'm sorry but you are full of shit. End of story.

First of all, you are the one whose credentials are being lied about. Making a statement like that first one tells me that.

Second of all, nowhere in my entire comment did I even mention stabbing. Stop trying to create a strawman argument. Third, nowhere did I say anything about special forces being anything but army. Perhaps the problem is you have very little reading comprehension.

I did not imply that you did any of those things.

@rr79 said:

I happen to have many family members in various branches of the military and know quite a few special forces guys that would absolutely disagree with you.

Just being in the military doesnt mean you know anything about knifes. Hell, Cooks in the military probably know more then your standard soldier does. You mentioned Special Forces that *would absolutely* disagree with me. That is you putting words into their mouths and assuming on behalf of someone else. Ironic, since you start the conversation arguing because I posted a *absolute*. Even if they would disagree with me, it is a culture that breeds you to be that sort of person. SF always think they are the biggest baddest on the planet. Reality? Most of them are Tier 3 operators.

Since you mentioned SF, I informed you on their limited knife training.

If skill is equal (h2h v knife) and the unarmed guy is wearing a carhartt and knife guy has a store bought walmart blade fresh out the package, forget it. Its almost 50/50 at that point. Really need details.

Also calling bull on the above "skilled knife fighters rarely stab". That's just nonsense unless you're fighting a naked man. Stabbing is how you reach vitals, even if u cut an artery they can still come for you. I can go on a whole tangent in how blade fights arent as pretty as movies and even with swords, the bleeding guy your sword is inside is probably STILL TRYING TO KILL YOU...but Ill save that. Even if one were dumb enough to throw their arm in the way, if they hit anywhere near the hand it stops the momentum, leaving the knifer no choice but to perform a draw cut, for which a knife blade is too short to be good at and would utterly fail to disable the arm. It'd cut, but they'd still use the arm. Probably even better if they consider the arm lost and use it as a forearm-long meat shield.

A skilled knife fighter wouldnt use a walmart blade though. I get the argument, that if they had to, they would, but even I carry a pretty nice karambit, and i am not anywhere near high end skilled with them.

They rarely stab. Vital areas are readily available, and you would be surprised how far a cut can go. If you cut a artery, they can still come for you. But most of the major veins and arteries you are out cold in under 10 seconds and dead in less then a minute. Not to mention you feel drowsy/disoriented almost immediately. All of these places are available to cuts. You dont need to stab someone in the heart. The heart does the work for you in you sever the femoral, brachial, carotid, etc.

If they sacrifice, even to the most pain tolerant person, they are going to take just as long to recover from the momentary pain as it takes to draw. Most parts in the hand are clean through. Fingers are usually just as much area as the palm it self, and those bones arent stopping it. Even if it hits a bone, the knife slides. It isnt a bat. Depending on the angle of the cut, its either positioned below the person, or above them ready to attack again. The forearm has enough area to stop the momentum, which is why I mentioned that specifically. But it would make that arm fairly useless.

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#45 Posted by MyLittleFascist (32840 posts) - - Show Bio

Only with the right environment.

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#46 Edited by MyLittleFascist (32840 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:
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I am going to go with yes...

Does armor even count as being unarmed?

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#47 Edited by RIX (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Of course it's possible. It would be an unlikely outcome, though.

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#48 Posted by Thekillerklok (10244 posts) - - Show Bio

@zetsumoto: yep. a bit pedantic maybe but that tots counts.

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#49 Posted by PayneInTheAss (12901 posts) - - Show Bio

Not much chance

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#50 Edited by MyLittleFascist (32840 posts) - - Show Bio

@thekillerklok said:

@zetsumoto: yep. a bit pedantic maybe but that tots counts.

Unarmed means "without defenses". Armor is a defense. Armor is also a type of armament.