Vs
Rules
in character
standard gear
no bfr
prefect team work
win by ko or incap
Cyclops and Colossus might be able to exploit the natural shortcomings of the suit and outlast it when it starts to lose power (this suit needed to be manually charged every hour or so)
Scott isn't a idiot and has faced far more scary models. Colossus is a meh brick but I'm not seeing Tony run through him without trouble, not counting getting optic blast spammed from the back
@punyaamrit: why do you think so?
@alphamon: sorry thought this was the first armor he made but i have to know how powerful tony is in this armor to make a decision
@punyaamrit: well there’s this respect thread
@noone1996 thoughts?
Tony wins with ease if we go off of classic portrayals, but considering how his earlier armors have been drastically nerfed in modern portrayals, the team would wreck.
@blackspidey2099: how have they been drastically nerfed?
@alphamon: They're referring for the fact that sometimes an army of suits will be turned into fodder due to plot. In reality the older suits shouldn't be weaker at all and that's not even always the case in more recent portrayals.
@lilbroomstick: so if it’s just plot isn’t it inconsistent and irrelevant to the current decision?
@alphamon: I'd say it's plot but BlackSpidey may think otherwise. They may genuinely feel like his older armors have gotten nerfed(even when they aren't portrayed as fodder) just to make his new armors look better. That's probably why they say every armor is in the same tier and don't ever give a newer armor feats from older armors, even when it makes sense to like with Extremis and Bleeding Edge. The writer's actual intent on the other hand is that Iron Man's new suit has gotten considerably better than his older armors.
I can really only think of a handful of suits that genuinely downgraded. For the most part every suit Iron Man has made is at least a minor upgrade to the previous suit. Even with suits like Silver Centurion and Classic their is some noticeable improvement, which makes sense because Silver Centurion is meant to be a better suit. Iron Man was slowly performing better and better against high tiers, and probably peaked out somewhere around Bleeding Edge/Endo-sym. The constant improving seemed to change after Bleeding Edge and then it really went downhill after Model Prime.
@lilbroomstick: what so Ironman’s newer armors making his older armor look like fodder is the reason for this?
@noobmaster2001: why so?
@alphamon: This armor is just too outdated. Colossus isn’t the greatest brick ever, but he should be able to give it a good fight on his own. Adding Cyclops only seals the deal.
@noobmaster2001: really? Because I thought it had pretty decent strength feats and versatility that could possibly give it the W
@alphamon: Partly, although it seems current Iron Man's suits are weaker than his older suits which is pretty sad. The only time I think the older suits were straight up fodder is when Iron Man got Endo-sym.
I think the main problem is that Iron Man in his older suits have some good feats against guys like Thor and Hulk that you won't really see him doing in newer suits too often. The main reason he did well against those guys in older armors is by amping his suit or his hits. Like against Thor, Hulk, or Surfer. Iron Man in newer armors did decently well against Stable Sentry, Thor, and Hulk without any sort of amp. The strongest person Iron Man could take hits from in his oldest armors was the Hulk IIRC. Iron Man eventually got strong enough to take hits from guys like Destroyer, Count Nefaria, and an inexperienced Thorforce Thor. He could take hits from the Hulk better than before too. It should be noted that everyone I just mentioned except for Surfer and Sentry were serious or angry when they fought Iron Man. In an older armor he needed an amp to break Graviton's shields, but a bloodlusted Uni-beam from Extremis was killing the guy(it should be noted Graviton was mentally ill at the time though). It's not like newer Iron Man has never amped himself either. He did it to stun Mangog and counter an attack from the Collector who should be way stronger than normal high tiers like Thor. Overall I think it's pretty odd to say his older armors have gotten weaker rather than his newer armors getting better. He seems to perform consistently better than his previous suits.
@blackspidey2099: how have they been drastically nerfed?
What I mean is that whenever Tony (or anyone else) uses older Iron Man armors nowadays, they’re always trash tier. They get stomped by the likes of Carol or Namor or She-Hulk, or even street levelers like Black Panther. In terms of non-scaling, I remember Iron Man‘s Classic armor, which had like mountain level feats in the silver age, getting one-shotted by an RPG in Fraction’s run on Iron Man.
@lilbroomstick: Don't be scaling brain damaged crazy Graviton to his regular levels tho
@professorrespect: Tbh I'm not sure how much weaker he was. He was stomping a team of mid tiers until Iron Man came out of nowhere and bullrushed him. I'll edit what I said though.
@professorrespect: Tbh I'm not sure how much weaker he was. He was stomping a team of mid tiers until Iron Man came out of nowhere and bullrushed him. I'll edit what I said though.
The Graviton seen in Secret Avengers/Iron Man is brain damaged and massively nerfed power wise compared to his classic and Thunderbolt incarnations, considering he didn't have any solid basis on his powers and ended up killing himself because of his internal trauma or something dramatic. Going from casually running through and one shotting Iron Man to being incapable of dealing with him is a pretty rough nerf
I'm not sure how getting one shot by Destroyer three times in the same fight or getting knocked around by a Nefaria leaking Ionic energy and weakened and winning by proxy by letting him get reckless is indicative of Iron Man's durability tbh
The Graviton seen in Secret Avengers/Iron Man is brain damaged and massively nerfed power wise compared to his classic and Thunderbolt incarnations, considering he didn't have any solid basis on his powers and ended up killing himself because of his internal trauma or something dramatic. Going from casually running through and one shotting Iron Man to being incapable of dealing with him is a pretty rough nerf
Fair
I'm not sure how getting one shot by Destroyer three times in the same fight or getting knocked around by a Nefaria leaking Ionic energy and weakened and winning by proxy by letting him get reckless is indicative of Iron Man's durability tbh
We only see Iron Man KOed one time though.
Iron Man was low on power himself so tanking Nefaria throwing entire boats on him is pretty good.
@lilbroomstick: No Iron Man gets dropped like three times in that fight, maybe not KO'd but clearly not in the fight anymore considering he's shown to be still on the ground
I definitely wouldn't say Iron Man was "tanking" Nefaria considering his armor was cracked and badly damaged, but it still managed to bare the physical trauma (through he only had enough power for like one repulsor blast and wasn't even standing at the end) so it's a good feat
@lilbroomstick: I’m pretty sure the only suit thats not and sucks is model prime appertly but that dosen’t seem to be a problem since Ironman we’ll be getting a new suit soon
and seems to be beating treax
@blackspidey2099: hmmm well I fell like this is more or less due to the writers not knowing a lot about Tony’s older feats suits
@blackspidey2099: hmmm well I fell like this is more or less due to the writers not knowing a lot about Tony’s older feats suits
If it happened under just one writer, then sure. But older suits are fodder under essentially every writer, whether it's Fraction, Aaron, Slott, or Taylor. I can't think of a single writer who makes Tony's old suits seem strong.
@alphamon: It’s not a bad fight at all, but this armor hasn’t really shown up much and awhile it does have some pretty decent feats against powerhouses like Hulk, it’s honestly quite outdated compared to modern incarnations of said characters. Cyclops and Colossus should be able to take it.
@professorrespect: Maybe he didn't quite tank their hits but he wasn't completely out either.
Against Destroyer I think it's impressive he could recover so fast from the 3 heavy hits we saw him take. He was knocked out some time off-panel.
Against Nefaria it's like you said. I remember a few times his fresh classic armor could only endure a few hits from Hulk before crumpling. These showings seem good compared to that IMO.
@blackspidey2099: but even then that shouldn’t make there other feats invalid
@noobmaster2001: but what about it’s magntiesem and the rest of it’s versatility
@alphamon: Model 64 and all of the Stark Network armors are worse than Model Prime by far. Model Prime had some good feats like fighting Regent. Model 64 failed to beat a dragon that his model 1 armor nearly beat to death and spawned some trash buster suits along with it.
That video you showed kind of proves my point. He seems to be going back to his older suit, which honestly seems neccessary at this point. It may or may not have been upgraded but we'll see.
@lilbroomstick: well damm
@alphamon: At least the new Iron Man looks promising. Although he does have good feats against Terrax already but maybe we'll end up seeing something that will make people undoubtedly believe Iron Man beats him.
@lilbroomstick: question how is getting off two hits vs hulk doing well?
@alphamon: Magnetism might be an issue, but I still think the team could pull it off. Don’t think versatility will change much here.
@lilbroomstick: true
@blackspidey2099: but even then that shouldn’t make there other feats invalid
Feats from like the last few years are far more relevant than feats from 60 years ago...
@dmnb2wavy: Look closely he got 4 hits + a throw when Hulk tried to squeeze him. Hulk was trying to kill him and yet Iron Man is one that stands up first after the explosion while Hulk is wiping his mouth.
@blackspidey2099: I’m not saying there irrelevant I’m saying we shouldn’t just throw out there older feats like there nothing
Am I missing something? Colossus alone would be a challenge. Strength is arguable; but early era Colossus was kinda head and shoulders above everyone in durability. He was the meat shield for people like Juggernaut or Hulk when he'd go off the rails.
And Cyclops was able to make later armors flinch in the first two AvX.
Thanks for reading,
Floopay
@dmnb2wavy: Look closely he got 4 hits + a throw when Hulk tried to squeeze him. Hulk was trying to kill him and yet Iron Man is one that stands up first after the explosion while Hulk is wiping his mouth.
Yeah I’m looking closely. That was definitely not a throw. hulk is behind iron man so it seems that iron man shield made them all float As shown by thor,cap and Hawkeye. also really? Iron man overpowering hulk one arm would be a ridiculous feat if you ask me.
you mean those blast? Because hit wise he only got two Anyway that still doesn’t mean much Honestly. we never got to see how the fight would of played out had they fought longer. We shouldn’t really use four attacks as a scale of doing well when hulk was not even bleeding from the blows.
yeah iron man is standing before hulk because hulk is confused. ( he was mind controlled after all) no other explanation considering cap was getting ready to stand up before hulk.
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