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#1 Edited by Sovngarde (536 posts) - - Show Bio

616

Morals off

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#2 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6025 posts) - - Show Bio

@sovngarde: captain marvel stomps, this thread has been made multiple times, it might get locked.

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#3 Posted by Toratorn (6779 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by Amendment50 (15180 posts) - - Show Bio

neither stomps

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#5 Posted by pansito (1208 posts) - - Show Bio

unless this is billy batson, ironman stomps

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#6 Posted by jaakor (175 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't marvel put him in a coma? Depends on the suit he has tho and how much prep

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#8 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man stomps. Civil War II was shit tier writing.

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#9 Edited by Mooty_Pass (9845 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel Stomps.

Carol's power set is enough to deal with Tony. InB4 "Tony has counters for everything, at all times."

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#10 Posted by Adriusus (3230 posts) - - Show Bio
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#11 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

@mooty_pass: "Power set"? What does that even mean? I don't think he'll be stupid enough to blast her with energy she can use against him. Even in the massively inconsistent Civil War II storyline, he didn't do that.

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#12 Posted by kgb725 (18416 posts) - - Show Bio

@noone1996: Everyone knows what power set means. She crushes him clean

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#13 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: I was asking for clarification because her power set is really nothing special. Especially compared to Tony. Saying she "wins due to her power set" doesn't make sense. What ability in her "power set" gives her such a distinct advantage over Tony? Her strength? Iron Man's lifted more. Her striking power? Iron Man's struck harder. Her speed? What speed? Her durability? Iron Man's tanked worse. Her energy beams? Iron Man's tanked worse than hers, absorbed more powerful than hers, and vaporized mountain ranges. She has no "power set" advantage, but keep going into every thread like this and baselessly claiming that Carol stomps him and then run away when called out. Doesn't get old.

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#14 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11457 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not a stomp but it's not close.

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#15 Posted by Warlockmage (9084 posts) - - Show Bio

Tony if hes not being written by a hack

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#16 Edited by Greysentinel365 (6038 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends completely on the armor. Superior/Bleeding Edge/Extremis armors definitely win, but post Secret Wars Iron Man would lose.

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#18 Posted by KrleAvenger (26273 posts) - - Show Bio

To be blunt, aside from that featless Hulkbuster like Armor, Model 0, Model 1, or some one-off Armors that are not even made for combat or barely have feats, I don't see her beating any version of Iron Man. Even Bendis had Tony one-shot her by bypassing her energy absorption, and he didn't need to go all Hulkbuster-like.

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Feats, skills, set of abilities, powers, quantifiable showing, ABC logic, scaling, even actual showing between the two over the years, all go to Tony's favor most of the time. They are not on the same tier. Tony curbstomps.

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#19 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6025 posts) - - Show Bio

why bump?? captain marvel everytime.

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#20 Posted by SupremeGeneration (11457 posts) - - Show Bio

why bump?? captain marvel everytime.

Shouldn't be too hard to provide feats for that side if this is the case.

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#21 Posted by DoctorDaMn (889 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_living_tribunal_24: When she and a whole team of avengers got shat on by a rogue hulkbuster??? Sure I'll just take your word for it. 😁😁😁

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#22 Posted by cromulor (2142 posts) - - Show Bio

Tony

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#23 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (15448 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn’t Marvel already beat him?

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#24 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

To be blunt, aside from that featless Hulkbuster like Armor, Model 0, Model 1, or some one-off Armors that are not even made for combat or barely have feats, I don't see her beating any version of Iron Man. Even Bendis had Tony one-shot her by bypassing her energy absorption, and he didn't need to go all Hulkbuster-like.

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Feats, skills, set of abilities, powers, quantifiable showing, ABC logic, scaling, even actual showing between the two over the years, all go to Tony's favor most of the time. They are not on the same tier. Tony curbstomps.

While I agree that the majority of Tony's armors win, I don't think Model Prime is one of them. Sure, he won in that instance by exploiting Carol's energy absorption powers, but now that Carol knows that Tony can exploit those, she won't use them, so that strategy wouldn't work again. Bendis also made it repeatedly clear that Carol's stats were superior to Tony's in the Model Prime armor.

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#25 Posted by KrleAvenger (26273 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099:

Sure, he won in that instance by exploiting Carol's energy absorption powers, but now that Carol knows that Tony can exploit those, she won't use them, so that strategy wouldn't work again.

He bypassed or negated/countered her ability to absorb energy. It is not relevant to whether she decided to do it or not. She tried because that is logical thing to do, but it did not work because Tony had countermeasures for that. Everything else is just enough firepower to put her down, which Tony has. Just by knowing she can't rely on her energy absorption against Tony does not really prevent Tony from tagging her.

Bendis also made it repeatedly clear that Carol's stats were superior to Tony's in the Model Prime armor.

She blitzed him when he was distracted and could not do anything about it, and even then, he did not fight back because he had some readings he tried to warn her of. Her blows caused cracks in his helmet, but the armor repaired.

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Is there another instance you are referring to? If it is this one, I do not think it is definitive proof.

And even then, Tony does not need to be physically superior to win, as he did so through sheer versatility.

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#26 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

He bypassed or negated/countered her ability to absorb energy. It is not relevant to whether she decided to do it or not. She tried because that is logical thing to do, but it did not work because Tony had countermeasures for that. Everything else is just enough firepower to put her down, which Tony has. Just by knowing she can't rely on her energy absorption against Tony does not really prevent Tony from tagging her.

Yeah, what I'm saying is that she's no longer going to try and absorb Tony's attacks, rather just dodge them or tank them without ingesting the energy - in which case, it's going to be a lot harder for Tony to harm her in that armor.

She blitzed him when he was distracted and could not do anything about it, and even then, he did not fight back because he had some readings he tried to warn her of. Her blows caused cracks in his helmet, but the armor repaired.

Yeah, she cracked through his helmet in the span of two hits. That's not a decisive victory or anything, but it does show that it would have only taken another hit for her to kill him (shoot him where the armor is gone). I don't think Tony has shown anything in his Model Prime armor (or later) that would allow him to take her out before then, or even effectively avoid her attacks.

There's also the fact that she beat him in his Marvel-buster armor, which was clearly portrayed to be above his regular suit. With all those factors in mind, I just don't think any of Tony's suits post Secret Wars have what it takes to win.

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#27 Edited by KrleAvenger (26273 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: But she can't really tank them. They already one-shotted her. It is not bypassing absorption that made her fall. But potency of an attack, which just happened to have countermeasures for her absorption. Sure she can dodge but Tony does have better speed feats, better dexterity, better accuracy and more skill. I do not think he will have a hard time tagging her, especially because he has a one-shot weapon while we know Carol can't really one shot him. Sure, I agree, she can blast him, but Tony can still fight back and Model 51 does have absurd healing, which was shown even there.

I do not take Bulky Armor showing seriously because Bendis actually said that it is stronger than Hulkbuster armor. Which I disagree with since prototype Hulkbuster already curbstomped Ms. Marvel along with Iron Spider and She-Hulk at the same time, the armor who ironically did not cause any damage to Extremis suit in the same issue, but that is not as relevant. And other Hulkbusters have other feats like actually fighting the Hulk and giving him a run for his money, while Carol was one shotted by Hulk who was basically at 0% anger level after not even feeling her hits.

You can argue for Carol > Model Prime, but I still think arguments can be made for that armor.

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#28 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

It is not bypassing absorption that made her fall. But potency of an attack, which just happened to have countermeasures for her absorption.

That's actually untrue. The potency of the attack clearly wasn't the reason she was hurt, as shown in the very page you posted.

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Tony hits her with the blast in panel two, and she's completely unhurt by the potency of the attack. They then go on to have a short conversation, and only then does she get blasted by the feedback created by the energy she just absorbed. If she hadn't absorbed the energy, the attack would not have been able to harm her through sheer potency, as seen in the second panel where she actually gets hit.

Sure she can dodge but Tony does have better speed feats, better dexterity, better accuracy and more skill.

As far as I'm aware, Tony's speed feats post Secret Wars are, once again, not as good as Carol's.

Sure, I agree, she can blast him, but Tony can still fight back and Model 51 does have absurd healing, which was shown even there.

That's true, but if she only needs one or two hits to break through the armor and then kill him from inside, does the healing really matter?

I do not take Bulky Armor showing seriously because Bendis actually said that it is stronger than Hulkbuster armor.

I mean, not all Hulkbuster armors are equal. The ones which Tony has used post Secret Wars have both been completely ineffectual against high tier threats, so Bendis might have had that power level in mind. Furthermore, that's just a throwaway statement. I do think it was clear that Bendis meant to show that Captain Marvel > Model Prime Iron Man in terms of pure stats, at the very least.

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#29 Edited by KrleAvenger (26273 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099:

Tony hits her with the blast in panel two, and she's completely unhurt by the potency of the attack. They then go on to have a short conversation, and only then does she get blasted by the feedback created by the energy she just absorbed. If she hadn't absorbed the energy, the attack would not have been able to harm her through sheer potency, as seen in the second panel where she actually gets hit.

That is not how interpreted the scan. I simply assumed she failed to absorb it, and ended up just tanking a hit. Conversation was very very short and you can argue it is the time span necessary to absorb all of that. But I never interpreted the scan in a way you do, that what hit her was triggered because she started to absorb energy.

As far as I'm aware, Tony's speed feats post Secret Wars are, once again, not as good as Carol's.

He does not need them. It is not like Carol is particularly known for dodging, or Tony struggles to hit someone.

That's true, but if she only needs one or two hits to break through the armor and then kill him from inside, does the healing really matter?

She landed 2 hits and did not really crack it open until that vision threw them to the side, and less than 5 seconds later the suit was completely fine. Tony was distracted as well and when he got hit, he did not fight back. Carol won't be in the same position to land so many direct and clean shots, and Tony does have options to fight back.

I mean, not all Hulkbuster armors are equal. The ones which Tony has used post Secret Wars have both been completely ineffectual against high tier threats, so Bendis might have had that power level in mind. Furthermore, that's just a throwaway statement. I do think it was clear that Bendis meant to show that Captain Marvel > Model Prime Iron Man in terms of pure stats, at the very least.

No Hulkbusters were ever effective against High Tiers. They never did anything regular Armors can not. They simply made Tony look like a brawler instead of flight/long ranged fighter. As for the other thing, it all depends on how you interpret it, which is up to you. Like I said, you can argue for Carol being above Model Prime.

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#30 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#31 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Posted by The_living_tribunal_24 (6025 posts) - - Show Bio
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#33 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_living_tribunal_24: That was horrible writing. Carol has always been a mid-tier written at or below Iron Man's level and now suddenly she's drastically above even a Hulk-Buster armor that self-repairs? It makes no sense.

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#34 Posted by WollfMyth209 (16274 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger: To be fair, Iron Man "one-shotted" her through haxx that she now has a counter for thanks to Blue Marvel. I don't think that'd work again.

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#35 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: I don't mean to dogpile, but when Rogue had Thor's powers and they began to fade away she started to realize that she needed to run for her life because she knew she was absolutely no match for Iron Man with just Ms. Marvel's powers alone and that was in his classic armor:

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So I honestly doubt that she could even beat his classic suits.

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#36 Posted by KrleAvenger (26273 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Edited by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

@krleavenger:

That is not how interpreted the scan. I simply assumed she failed to absorb it, and ended up just tanking a hit. Conversation was very very short and you can argue it is the time span necessary to absorb all of that. But I never interpreted the scan in a way you do, that what hit her was triggered because she started to absorb energy.

I mean, I guess that's fair, but in that case wouldn't she have been taken out of the fight the second she was hit? Because if she didn't absorb the energy, it would have all hit her then. Also, wolffmyth said that Carol now has a counter to that hax.

She landed 2 hits and did not really crack it open until that vision threw them to the side, and less than 5 seconds later the suit was completely fine. Tony was distracted as well and when he got hit, he did not fight back. Carol won't be in the same position to land so many direct and clean shots, and Tony does have options to fight back.

Yes, but two or three clean hits are still all she needs to win this battle. And remember, once she lands the first hit, successive hits will be significantly easier to land after that, as Tony would be disoriented. I definitely don't think Model Prime Tony can take her out as easily as she can him.

No Hulkbusters were ever effective against High Tiers. They never did anything regular Armors can not. They simply made Tony look like a brawler instead of flight/long ranged fighter. As for the other thing, it all depends on how you interpret it, which is up to you. Like I said, you can argue for Carol being above Model Prime.

I'm not talking about feats-wise, but rather based on the writer's portrayal. I think we can both agree that Hulkbuster suits are portrayed to be above regular suits in terms of strength and durability at the very least. By feats, I'm aware that most of Tony's best come from his regular suits.

@noone1996 said:

@blackspidey2099: I don't mean to dogpile, but when Rogue had Thor's powers and they began to fade away she started to realize that she needed to run for her life because she knew she was absolutely no match for Iron Man with just Ms. Marvel's powers alone and that was in his classic armor:

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So I honestly doubt that she could even beat his classic suits.

To be fair, I do think classic Ms. Marvel was weaker than Carol currently is, but yeah, I'm in agreement that many of Tony's classic suits would beat Carol either way. His classic suits were just far more versatile and impressive than most of his current suits are. I was referring to post Secret Wars Iron Man, since I do think there's been a concerted effort at Marvel to make Tony's suits less impressive lately.

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#38 Posted by Noone1996 (11516 posts) - - Show Bio

@blackspidey2099: I misread your comment. My bad. Yeah, he's been pretty shitty in the modern comics.